Post by: jackelope on March 31, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
Post by: JLS on March 31, 2013, 08:51:41 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 31, 2013, 09:00:29 AM
As for accuracy there is no inherent reason a short barrel cannot shoot as well, or perhaps better than a long barrel. It might be more difficult to streadily hold a whippy barrel.
If you know and are close to the gunsmith, an interesting experiment would be to cut it to 18-19" and test fire it. If the accuracy is good, stop. If not, shave another 1/8" off and repeat. Barrels usually have sweet spots due to the harmonics of a bullet traveling down it.
Post by: jackelope on March 31, 2013, 09:01:26 AM
Post by: kentrek on March 31, 2013, 09:26:52 AM
Post by: jackelope on March 31, 2013, 11:30:51 AM
I would make your rifle lighter in other ways...like the action an stock an scope.. Id call up some people that build UL rifles an see what they say
It's an Encore. Nothing left to change in the action. It's 7 pounds right now with the scope and the .280 barrel as is. Not too many options as far as stocks go. Definitely not like the options around for a Rem 700. Probably wont happen anyway. I was just wondering what the opinions were. I saw this one on YouTube and it made me curious.
Post by: kentrek on March 31, 2013, 12:24:32 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 31, 2013, 12:25:22 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 31, 2013, 12:26:50 PM
PS: I was told years ago, that all the accuracy of a barrel is in the last 2" of the bore, so as long as the bore and crown job are good, the only difference would be velocity.
Post by: david0 on March 31, 2013, 06:16:17 PM
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=580 (http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=580)
Post by: high country on March 31, 2013, 09:11:28 PM
Post by: crazysccrmd on March 31, 2013, 09:17:43 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 31, 2013, 10:54:37 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 31, 2013, 11:03:50 PM
What would the disadvantages be to having a barrel shortened by 6" or so?? I have a 24" 9 twist .280 Rem barrel for my Encore and was considering shortening it to 16.5"-18" to make a lightweight rifle. Would the 9 twist have enough length in the barrel to adequately spin the bullet? I've been shooting 140 grain Hornady gmx's with good results from the 24" tube. I'd have a smith cut and re crown. Just sort of an imagination kind of thing at this point. Not sure if its realistic to expect it to shoot.I would look for a Ruger Hawkeye 7mm-08 Compact. Its what Shorty uses Josh, is light and has a 16.5" barrel. She shoots 140gr. partitions with it. :tup:
Post by: jackelope on April 01, 2013, 07:20:21 AM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on April 01, 2013, 07:46:11 AM
Here's a link to a test on loss of velocity with shorter barrel lengths. It's not a 280, but still kinda interesting, and might give some in-site.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html (http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html)
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on April 01, 2013, 08:53:09 AM
-Steve
Post by: jackelope on April 01, 2013, 09:28:30 AM
The Encore, even with the 28" .300 barrel+the brake is a lot shorter than my Remington 700 with a 26" barrel. Like probably 6" shorter total. A 20" barrel'd Encore would be ridiculously compact. That's the appeal. It would be ultra compact. If I have a chance I'll stand the Encore up next to the 700 and take a pic.
Again, at this point this is all a day dream. It might play out I guess, we'll see.
Post by: huntnphool on April 01, 2013, 09:31:28 AM
But my Encore frame is already tricked out and a barrel mod is a lot cheaper than a whole rifle. With the current barrel as is, with the small stock, its still quite light at around 7#. It only gets heavy with the thumb hole stock and the heavy barrels.Just giving you a excuse to make another purchase ;)
Post by: jackelope on April 01, 2013, 09:32:58 AM
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=580 (http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=580)
Quote
Here is a list of each caliber used in the test, along with the ammo and group size before/after. I will also point out that there were 2 3-shot groups fired from the bench at 100 yards before the test and 2 3-shot groups fired after the test with the average group size listed for a ruler reading of group size measured center to center...
1) 22-250 / 55 gr. Federal Premium, before - 1 3/4" / AFTER - 3/4"...
2) 25/06 / 117 gr. Hornady Spire Point, before - 2" / AFTER - 1"...
3) 7mm Rem. Mag. / 140 gr. Nosler Partition, before - 2 1/2" / AFTER - 7/8"...
4) 308 / 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt, before - 1 1/2" / AFTER - 3/4"...
5) 300 Win. Mag. / 180 gr. Ballistic Silver Tip, before - 2" / AFTER - 1"...
Okay, what was the ONLY thing done to these guns to cut their group size in half?
I cut 5" off the barrel and recrowned the muzzle!
Well, that may actually be two things but, it stands to reason that if you cut a barrel back, it automatically gets recrowned...
So why did these guns start shooting more like what they were supposed to with a 23" barrel instead of a 28" barrel?
Excessive "whip" and "vibration" as well as a total change in "harmonics"...
The .280 barrel I have is the tapered one he's talking about.
Quote
These Encore barrels also have what is referred to as a "step taper" and this too is a big cause of barrel flex. This is why that, when I build a barrel by barrel stubbing, I only use barrels that have a "straight taper" as this is what can be referred to as a self supporting structure. It does NOT whip around or flex like what the step tapered barrels do and with the vibrations lessened and harmonics dampened, accuracy potential of the barrel goes way up...
Will cutting 5" off of every barrel automatically make your barrel a better shooter? I cannot say 100% that it will but, I have yet to see one that it did not help at least to a certain degree and some more than others...
Quote
Velocity loss from going from a 28" barrel down to 23"? I did get to shoot the 25-06 and 308 over the chronograph and total velocity loss for both was less than 60 fps.. I was expecting more but, and this is only my opinion, I feel the oversize bore closer to the muzzle end of the barrel was the culprit. If the bore was uniform from end to end or the muzzle end of the bore had a slight constriction to it, I would have expected a greater velocity loss. The 25-06 really suprised me as this cartridge performs admirably in a long barrel and shows it's true velocity potential. Not so in the last couple of Encore barrels I tested...
Post by: jackelope on April 01, 2013, 09:33:52 AM
But my Encore frame is already tricked out and a barrel mod is a lot cheaper than a whole rifle. With the current barrel as is, with the small stock, its still quite light at around 7#. It only gets heavy with the thumb hole stock and the heavy barrels.Just giving you a excuse to make another purchase ;)
That would work under normal circumstances, but once you have an Encore, the next new barrel affliction gets in your blood.
:tup:
Post by: huntnphool on April 01, 2013, 09:37:25 AM
then why waste time debating a modification of your existing barrel, can't you just buy a new barrel the length you want it and have both? :dunno:But my Encore frame is already tricked out and a barrel mod is a lot cheaper than a whole rifle. With the current barrel as is, with the small stock, its still quite light at around 7#. It only gets heavy with the thumb hole stock and the heavy barrels.Just giving you a excuse to make another purchase ;)
That would work under normal circumstances, but once you have an Encore, the next new barrel affliction gets in your blood.
:tup:
Post by: huntnphool on April 01, 2013, 09:53:23 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 01, 2013, 10:04:30 AM
http://www.eabco.com/encor01.html (http://www.eabco.com/encor01.html)
Blocked by work firewall.
What's it say?
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on April 01, 2013, 10:09:22 AM
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Post by: Huntboy on April 01, 2013, 10:54:27 AM
Check out Bellm's website, they might even be willing to answer questions.
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=543 (http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=543)
Post by: mazama on April 01, 2013, 08:25:28 PM
Post by: yorketransport on April 02, 2013, 06:00:45 PM
There are a lot of 17-19" specialty pistols in 284 Winchester which preform beautifully. In fact I think it's one of the best cases to run out of the long barreled pistols. I don't see why the 280 (with very similar case capacity) wouldn't work just as well. :twocents:
Andrew
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on April 02, 2013, 07:32:59 PM
Chop the barrel and be happy. :tup: I love an 18-20" barrel on my hunting rifles. Heck, I run 18-20" barrels on my handguns. The short barrel will shoot just as well, the noise really won't be significantly worse, and the velocity loss isn't going to make an difference.
There are a lot of 17-19" specialty pistols in 284 Winchester which preform beautifully. In fact I think it's one of the best cases to run out of the long barreled pistols. I don't see why the 280 (with very similar case capacity) wouldn't work just as well. :twocents:
Andrew
Could your short barrels have a different twist rate? :dunno:
Post by: yorketransport on April 02, 2013, 08:23:40 PM
Could your short barrels have a different twist rate? :dunno:
I've never had a problem using standard twist rates. I've run the following twists in barrels from 14-19":
204 Ruger 1-10"
6mm BR, 243 Win 1-8"
6.5/284 1-8"
7mm/08, 284 Win 1-9"
308, 300 wsm, 300 RUM 1-10"
338/375 Ruger 1-10"
All have given .5 MOA or better accuracy using standard rifle load data. I got better and more consistent velocities by using slightly faster powders in the really short (14") barrels.
Andrew
Post by: JoeE on July 09, 2013, 01:17:38 AM
Jackelope, I just took my Encore to Mike Pollazo in Covington and for $70 he cut and recrowned my 30-06 barrel from 28" down to 23". I'll be headed to the range later this week to see how much(hopefully) it improved accuracy. I really like the feel and balance of the rifle now with the shorter barrel.
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 09, 2013, 05:49:38 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 30, 2014, 08:41:13 AM
I just talked to Mr. Palazzo and he recommended leaving the barrel alone. He's forgotten about 11 times more than I will ever know about rifles so I'm going with that and am going to leave it alone.
Thanks for all the input.
Post by: coachcw on January 30, 2014, 12:17:50 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 30, 2014, 12:47:30 PM
Josh just sweetin the trigger up and enjoy it . your plenty strong enough to pack it around .
Already done, Coach.
Post by: mountainman on January 30, 2014, 05:57:54 PM
Post by: yorketransport on January 30, 2014, 06:49:13 PM
For the record, a Vias brake that close to your face is pretty unpleasant. Just a word of advice, when somebody bets you $10 to shoot a short barreled, muzzle braked gun with your mouth open, don't fall for it! :chuckle:
Andrew
Post by: jackelope on January 30, 2014, 07:29:59 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 30, 2014, 07:39:33 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 30, 2014, 08:02:15 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 30, 2014, 08:12:10 PM
When somebody bets you $10 to shoot a short barreled, muzzle braked gun with your mouth open, don't fall for it! :chuckle:
Andrew
Hahaha! Awesome...
Post by: mountainman on January 30, 2014, 08:54:25 PM
Post by: Special T on January 30, 2014, 09:09:01 PM
Post by: kbrowne14 on February 13, 2014, 05:07:08 PM
Now I heard all this through the internet from a French Model. It has to be true.