Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: Idahocougar on April 17, 2013, 05:47:53 PM
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I'm sure this question has been asked many times but here I go anyways. I'm looking to buy a case of shotgun shells for duck/goose hunting. I'm going to buy #2 because I've always had best success with that shot size.
The question is speed vs. shot weight. I'm debating between the two: 1450 fps & 1 1/4oz of shot VS. 1635 fps & 1 1/8oz of shot.
Is it more important to have speed or more shot pellets? :dunno:
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My take on it is more shot then speed. Shooting steel is like shooting full metal jacket in a bullet from rifle or hangun. More hits on the bird the better. It would be a different story shooting lead. :twocents:
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I'm admittedly a newbie, but here's my thought. Assuming my math is correct:
1 1/4oz #2 steel 156 pellets
1 1/8oz #2 steel 140 pellets
I personally have always picked the faster load. I'm not sure if it makes a noticeable difference, but math says you don't have to lead a duck as much with a faster load. Also, since force is mass x acceleration, those #2s will hit harder out of the faster shell. Is 16 pellets enough to make a difference between a hit and a miss? Very possibly. However, I've noticed if I do my part and don't over think the shot I do just fine with the 1 1/8oz #2s I have. If I miss it's usually a miss that 16 pellets wouldn't have fixed. What are you more comfortable with?
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What sort of choke do you run on your shot gun? Personally I've shot plenty of birds with 3inch #2s or #1s and they work well on both ducks and geese... My combo that's knocked the most birds down in a season has been a extended long range pattern master with Winchester blind side #1 shot... #2s work really were just as consistent, putting them both on paper at 30-40 yards my pellets were in a good tight pattern 30 yards I'd say 95% were in a 2' circle and 40 yards 90% were right there too... The pattern master choke makes a world of difference! Just have to go put shells on paper at certain ranges varying from 20-40 yards and see what happens then buy cases before buying something you don't like!
Sometimes to speed can be bad on barrels and blow out chokes keep that in mind.
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What sort of choke do you run on your shot gun? Personally I've shot plenty of birds with 3inch #2s or #1s and they work well on both ducks and geese... My combo that's knocked the most birds down in a season has been a extended long range pattern master with Winchester blind side #1 shot... #2s work really were just as consistent, putting them both on paper at 30-40 yards my pellets were in a good tight pattern 30 yards I'd say 95% were in a 2' circle and 40 yards 90% were right there too... The pattern master choke makes a world of difference! Just have to go put shells on paper at certain ranges varying from 20-40 yards and see what happens then buy cases before buying something you don't like!
Sometimes to speed can be bad on barrels and blow out chokes keep that in mind.
Absolutely agree with this. Pattern your shotgun first. Some shotguns and chokes can be picky with different brands of shot. Also, the point that too much speed can be bad is also a good point. I misread your first post and didn't notice just how fast the 1 1/8 load was going. That's screaming!
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I only shoot 12 ga 2 3/4" shells for ducks an I don't shoot the high speed shells, they don't pattern well for me. I agree with you on the shot size, I kill more ducks with #2's. You said you were looking for duck/goose loads. #2's are smaller than recommended for geese if you are talking steel shot. That said I have killed quite a few geese with 2's and 3's they have to be closer and you have to hit their head and neck.
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All season I shot ducks, all the way from teal and bufflehead to mallards and pintail, with Winchester Xpert #3 steel shot, never using more than a modified choke...but I don't take ridiculous long shots either. I like the birds to be committed.
I used both 2 3/4" shells and 3" shells. For geese (cacklers to snows to honkers) I used Winchester XPert 3" BB.
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2 3/4" 2s I shoot 1 1/4 oz. In 3" I like the 1 3/8oz loads. As a rule, I keep the shot charge between 1 1/4oz and 1 3/8oz. Unless.....I find a super cheap deal on some 1oz loads, they kill ducks too. But the price must be crazy good to buy the 1oz.
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I like the 3" #2 either 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 black clouds and I use a Carlson choke that is a touch tighter than a mod choke.
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I have heard it said be hunters that shoot more than me and kill LOTS more birds that 2 things are important. 1 does it pattern well? 2 what ever you shoot buy by the case and get used to how that size works for you.
My favorite is Kent #3 3in. I have killed ducks and geese with that shell. It doesn't have the reach of BB, But i have lost a fair ammount of geese that were lung shot but didn't break a wing. :twocents:
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I do a reload load with #2 shot. Big enough to kill ducks, and geese :tup: I start the season with 2 3/4 and near the end switch it up to 3" shells.
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I prefer bigger shot for the simple reason that I want to kill the bird dead or miss. I shoot a lot of 2's and 1's for ducks and BBB for geese. I find that combining bigger shot and tight chokes gets me a lot more stone dead birds.
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I do a reload load with #2 shot. Big enough to kill ducks, and geese :tup: I start the season with 2 3/4 and near the end switch it up to 3" shells.
I should have mentioned I only use a mod choke and shoot a Mossberg Model 500. That gun does not like blackcloud, but did really taken kent shells back when I bought ammo.
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So the question is More shot? or faster shot?
My :twocents: is that if you are good at shotgunning, or atleast pretty good, I recomend the faster the better. The reason... It cuts down on your lead time (shot sent out in flont of birds). Not by much, but a bit.
Plus if you reload, the smaller pellet load will stretch out to a few extra shells per case.
But I choose faster if I have a choice.
Basically you can shoot farther with faster steel because the energy carries it JUST a bit farther out.
Not much of a distance better, but Ive noticed at a pond we hunt that is about 80-90 yards wide in front of the blind, I only have to aim about 2 feet above a cripples head to reach out with my falling shot.
Slower #2's I'm practically mortoring the shot in at a 45 degree angle because it falls off faster.
Plus with the fatser stuff I seem to wack teal that surprise us more frequently... even though I still barely catch em in the ass. ;)
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I'm admittedly a newbie, but here's my thought. Assuming my math is correct:
1 1/4oz #2 steel 156 pellets
1 1/8oz #2 steel 140 pellets
I personally have always picked the faster load. I'm not sure if it makes a noticeable difference, but math says you don't have to lead a duck as much with a faster load. Also, since force is mass x acceleration, those #2s will hit harder out of the faster shell. Is 16 pellets enough to make a difference between a hit and a miss? Very possibly. However, I've noticed if I do my part and don't over think the shot I do just fine with the 1 1/8oz #2s I have. If I miss it's usually a miss that 16 pellets wouldn't have fixed. What are you more comfortable with?
Your comment on "hitting hard" is better shown using kinetic energy which is .5*mass*velocity^2, thus speed is far superior :)
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You guys are over thinking this stuff to much. You can do all the math and calculations you want, but if your a crappy shot and don't practice, shells won't fix the issues at hand.
I definitely like the shells in the 1,500-1,625 fps range. Hotter than that, they start to work your gun over if you shoot them frequently. If you run across some older 1, 1-1/8, 1-1/4 oz loads that are pushing 1,000 - 1,250 fps you best be shooting them over the decoys or close range as it just pushes the birds sideways and cripples them.
Find some shells in the BB-3 size range and keep the speed at 1,475 fps or faster and practice and you shouldn't have any issues with today's modern shells. Pattern the gun, so you get the best shells or choke for the shells you are shooting. Start hitting the 5 stand and when you find the shell that performs best out of your gun, buy several cases of the same and possibly the same lot number and then you will know or learn your leads and be very efficient with your shot.
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:yeah:
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Is t shot any good for goose hunting? I can get a bunch of it 3" for $10.50 a box
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Is t shot any good for goose hunting? I can get a bunch of it 3" for $10.50 a box
It will work on them pretty well with the larger birds. I would keep them over the decoys. I blasted one at about 45 yards and half the pellets were stuck in the breasts and breast plate and never made it to the vitals. I snapped a wing and that is what grounded the big guy.
At $10.50 per box how old is it. The old steel leaves a lot to be desired. I tried several boxes of Active #2 shot that was boxed in about 1999 or 2000 and saw how it was about effective to about 30 yards. I would carry a few rounds in my jacket for swatter loads.
Another heads up the T shot will require a less restricted choke, so check your choke if your shooting an aftermarket set up. If it has been exposed to any moisture the large shot will stick together and can split your barrel if not careful.
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2.5" Kent Tungsten Matrix 1 1/16oz #5's in a 110 yr old Lefever damascus ic/ic choked gun. 9 shots, 6 birds. This same load would work fantastic in modern guns as well. In shotgunning, less is more. Shoving huge amounts of ballistically inefficient steel shot and powder out of a field cannon yields diminishing returns.
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Using tungsten matrix is almost like cheating. It hits em like a rifle. :tup:
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2.5" Kent Tungsten Matrix 1 1/16oz #5's in a 110 yr old Lefever damascus ic/ic choked gun. 9 shots, 6 birds. This same load would work fantastic in modern guns as well. In shotgunning, less is more. Shoving huge amounts of ballistically inefficient steel shot and powder out of a field cannon yields diminishing returns.
You can get the same results with normal steel loads if you are shooting the birds in the decoys.
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2.5" Kent Tungsten Matrix 1 1/16oz #5's in a 110 yr old Lefever damascus ic/ic choked gun. 9 shots, 6 birds. This same load would work fantastic in modern guns as well. In shotgunning, less is more. Shoving huge amounts of ballistically inefficient steel shot and powder out of a field cannon yields diminishing returns.
Not bad except it probably cost you $27 dollars for those 9 shots.
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2.5" Kent Tungsten Matrix 1 1/16oz #5's in a 110 yr old Lefever damascus ic/ic choked gun. 9 shots, 6 birds. This same load would work fantastic in modern guns as well. In shotgunning, less is more. Shoving huge amounts of ballistically inefficient steel shot and powder out of a field cannon yields diminishing returns.
Not bad except it probably cost you $27 dollars for those 9 shots.
Yep. Compared to the price of new guns, dogs, gas, and all the other things we invest in to be able to hunt, it's a relatively small price to pay to be able to shoot a gun I enjoy rather than one I have to tolerate.
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2.5" Kent Tungsten Matrix 1 1/16oz #5's in a 110 yr old Lefever damascus ic/ic choked gun. 9 shots, 6 birds. This same load would work fantastic in modern guns as well. In shotgunning, less is more. Shoving huge amounts of ballistically inefficient steel shot and powder out of a field cannon yields diminishing returns.
You can get the same results with normal steel loads if you are shooting the birds in the decoys.
That hasn't been my experience. The normal kill ratio using steel is 3-4 shots per bird on average for most hunters.
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It really depends on how you hunt. I agree it is higher when you have more people trying to kill more birds out of every flock. But, when I hunt by myself, can let the birds finish, and don't feel the need to rush, it is relatively easy to kill a bird with every 1.5 shots. Sometimes it takes 7 or 8 shells and some days it takes 20.