Post by: jkononen on May 02, 2013, 12:09:22 PM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on May 02, 2013, 12:15:29 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on May 02, 2013, 12:17:04 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 02, 2013, 12:25:20 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 02, 2013, 12:39:24 PM
Quote
I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags.
I agree it probably happens fairly often. But it's not quite correct to think that if you draw a low number, it will increase your odds of getting multiple permits. The random numbers are assigned separately for each category you apply in. So a low number in one category has no influence on your chance of drawing a permit in another category.
As another post stated, it's just a part of the "game." Take the risk if you want and apply for hunts in more than one category per species. Or play it safe and apply for only the point option in some categories.
It isn't necessarily a waste of a permit if you draw a cow elk hunt and a bull elk hunt in the same year. You can still use both permits, as long as you don't use your tag on the first hunt.
It might make sense to apply for a cow hunt that has a later season than the bull hunt you applied for. That way you can hunt the bull permit first, and use the cow permit as a backup if you're not successful in killing a bull.
Post by: TommyGun496 on May 02, 2013, 12:41:38 PM
Post by: Antlershed on May 02, 2013, 12:54:46 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 02, 2013, 01:31:21 PM
Post by: Cascade on May 02, 2013, 01:34:46 PM
Post by: Southpole on May 02, 2013, 01:36:01 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on May 02, 2013, 01:49:14 PM
Post by: Antlershed on May 02, 2013, 02:35:43 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 02, 2013, 02:52:28 PM
Post by: mossyoak arrow slinger on May 02, 2013, 06:16:45 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 02, 2013, 06:24:13 PM
I drew quality bull and antlerless in the toutle two three years ago. It was nice being able to shoot any elk that stepped in front of me
So what did you end up shooting?
Post by: Red Leg on May 02, 2013, 07:03:34 PM
Filled both tags.
Post by: steeleywhopper on May 02, 2013, 07:08:35 PM
I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.
This is the exact reason why I think they should let the person who draws two special permits buy a extra tag and try to harvest both animals. Nothing wrong with that in my book. Whats the difference if Joe Schmoe with two permits shoots two animals or 2 different Joe Schmoes with 1 special permit each shoot the two animals. We have all been playing the game long enough they ought to let us do it.
Post by: bobcat on May 02, 2013, 07:18:34 PM
I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.
This is the exact reason why I think they should let the person who draws two special permits buy a extra tag and try to harvest both animals. Nothing wrong with that in my book. Whats the difference if Joe Schmoe with two permits shoots two animals or 2 different Joe Schmoes with 1 special permit each shoot the two animals. We have all been playing the game long enough they ought to let us do it.
I disagree. Odds of drawing are already bad as it is. The disincentive for applying in more than one category for the same species is that you will "waste" your points and only get to make use of one of the permits that you drew.
Don't want to waste points? Then don't take the risk of applying in multiple categories for the same species.
Post by: swwaoutdoorsman on May 02, 2013, 09:28:38 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on May 02, 2013, 09:32:02 PM
I think the hunter should get to choose one permit, then have second raffle at $5 a pop for unsuccessful applicants. :twocents:There I fixed it for you. Now maybe WDFW will bite... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: rtspring on May 02, 2013, 09:32:50 PM
Post by: elkslayer069 on May 02, 2013, 09:33:13 PM
Post by: dvolmer on May 02, 2013, 10:26:53 PM
Post by: Mfowl on May 02, 2013, 10:41:22 PM
Post by: winshooter88 on May 02, 2013, 11:28:55 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 02, 2013, 11:33:53 PM
The only reason the possibility of drawing two permits is really an issue is because so many people were unfairly given points in categories in which they did not earn them. Many people had as many as 14 points in 2010 when the WDFW invented all the new categories.
These people had obviously accumulated that many points by applying for the best bull permits available. Other people who were happy with just drawing a cow permit every couple of years, got screwed royally by the state when they decided to take a person's elk points and give them that same number of points in each of the new categories. So people who had never applied for a cow permit instantly had 14 points in the antlerless elk category.
These are the people who are now most at risk of drawing a permit in more than one elk category in the same year, and they have the most to lose. So please let's not make any suggestions to the WDFW to make any more unfair changes. It shouldn't take 10 to 12 points to draw a cow tag. But it does. That is proof that the system is screwed up. But the only way to fix it is for all these people with a high number of points to draw a permit and clear out their points. So let them draw a permit that they can't or won't use. That is what we need to get the point system back to normal.
I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.
Post by: steeleywhopper on May 02, 2013, 11:46:51 PM
People who put in for elk permits in more than one category in the same year, do it hoping that if they don't get drawn on one, they will get drawn on the other. You know when you put in that it is possible to get drawn on one, two or even three categories. If you don't want to lose points by drawing more than one permit then only put in for one category. You only get one tag per year and we all know it. If you get drawn in more than one category learn to live with it, you made the choice to put in for more than one category in the same year. Why should get bailed out by getting an extra tag or getting your points back? No one made you take the chance.
Im sure this is aimed at me and im fine with that. I am pissed that tags go to waste when most of us have been playing this game for so many years. Yea, I know, no one forced me to play it, but darn it. If I want to shoot big bulls or cows in Eastern Washington I have to play into the draw abortion. (My hunting unit)
Personally I don't put in for more than one elk permit due to the fact that I can only use one of the permits if drawn. It will be a cold day in heck before I burn hard earned points on special permits I cant use. I got crap ton of money invested in this system and it irks the crap out of me when I see opportunities wasted.
Post by: steeleywhopper on May 02, 2013, 11:48:44 PM
I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.
Amen to that!
Post by: winshooter88 on May 02, 2013, 11:53:28 PM
Post by: Scottystyle on May 03, 2013, 12:17:59 AM
Post by: RadSav on May 03, 2013, 01:37:51 AM
I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.
Amen to that!
I think I agree with that. A few years ago I got drawn for my first ever WDFW permit tag in 20 years - An archery Toutle cow!!! :chuckle: Then I go and shoot a nice bull in the general tag area second day of the season. Was absolutely thrilled to actually draw something in this state! But, I could not have been happier to waste my antlerless points on a bull. I generally only put in for a single unit so if I get another cow tag some day and a bull tag in the same year I'm still sitting pretty sweet 8)
Only thing I might want to see change in the rules is the maximum number in a group for deer and elk. I say cut it in half at least and let the tags spread out a little bit. Eight people in a single group :dunno: I'm surprised how many big groups I see getting drawn each year while I'm crying and thowing my annual tempertantrum.
Post by: Antlershed on May 03, 2013, 05:48:10 AM
These people had obviously accumulated that many points by applying for the best bull permits available.Not necessarily. I had 13 points when they made the split and at least half of them were gained by just applying for ghost points the years I couldn't hunt. Last year i couldn't even draw Margaret archery with 15 points. I did take advantage of the split and used 13 points on a cow tag, but I don't think it was a good change they made in 2010.
Post by: elkoholicmike on May 03, 2013, 06:36:28 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on May 03, 2013, 06:57:05 AM
I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.
The "flaw" was when they rolled points into all categories when this draw system began.
Guys that got 10 points per category were given a serious windfall bonus (and huge long-term advantage in drawing any permits). That's why it takes 5-10 points to draw a cow tag now, wheras before you could get one every couple years if you wanted one.
Payment for that gift is being smart about which hunts/categories you put in for.
Post by: rtspring on May 03, 2013, 07:05:07 AM
Post by: Curly on May 03, 2013, 07:11:40 AM
I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.
Amen to that!
:bow:
Post by: Curly on May 03, 2013, 07:12:16 AM
:yeah:I think it happens often. With how they draw its one flaw. If your wild Id gets picked with a low number I think you have a good chance at drawing multiple tags. I don't put in for the same animal because I don't want to waist my points. It's messed up when someone draws quality elk and bull the same year and waists the bull tag that someone could have used. You will see it on here after the draw.
The "flaw" was when they rolled points into all categories when this draw system began.
Guys that got 10 points per category were given a serious windfall bonus (and huge long-term advantage in drawing any permits). That's why it takes 5-10 points to draw a cow tag now, wheras before you could get one every couple years if you wanted one.
Payment for that gift is being smart about which hunts/categories you put in for.
Post by: bobcat on May 03, 2013, 07:20:44 AM
These people had obviously accumulated that many points by applying for the best bull permits available.Not necessarily. I had 13 points when they made the split and at least half of them were gained by just applying for ghost points the years I couldn't hunt. Last year i couldn't even draw Margaret archery with 15 points. I did take advantage of the split and used 13 points on a cow tag, but I don't think it was a good change they made in 2010.
Well the point is you didn't get all the points by applying for cow tags. Yet they awarded you 13 points in the antlerless elk category just because it was the easiest way for them to do it.
Post by: ghosthunter on May 03, 2013, 07:42:38 AM
Post by: Bwana Bob on May 06, 2013, 09:07:33 AM
Post by: Roperfive88 on May 06, 2013, 12:31:28 PM
I'm afraid if the WDFW does something more in an attempt to "fix" the system, they will make it even worse. Just like they did in 2010.
Amen to that!
I think I agree with that. A few years ago I got drawn for my first ever WDFW permit tag in 20 years - An archery Toutle cow!!! :chuckle: Then I go and shoot a nice bull in the general tag area second day of the season. Was absolutely thrilled to actually draw something in this state! But, I could not have been happier to waste my antlerless points on a bull. I generally only put in for a single unit so if I get another cow tag some day and a bull tag in the same year I'm still sitting pretty sweet 8)
Only thing I might want to see change in the rules is the maximum number in a group for deer and elk. I say cut it in half at least and let the tags spread out a little bit. Eight people in a single group :dunno: I'm surprised how many big groups I see getting drawn each year while I'm crying and thowing my annual tempertantrum.
The bigger groups is usually a disadvantage to the group because is lowers the number of tags they can draw. As anyone heard of a big group drawinq really good tags. If you put in with 8 people for a quality tag that has only nine tags they can only draw on the first two so I am guessing that this happens very little. I think that big groups actually help the single hunters odds when you look strictly at the numbers. The biggest group that I have seen where I hunt has been three. So if a bunch of people go in on one entry I say let them.
Post by: TommyGun496 on May 06, 2013, 01:01:28 PM
A better question. Has anybody here ever drawn anything in the state of Washington. The subject draws out the giggles in my house. Good luck one and all anyway.Drew a toutle bull tag last year with two points...does that count?
Post by: sakoshooter on May 06, 2013, 09:16:30 PM
Is there anybody on here who has drawn for both antlerless and quality in the same year? Just wondering how often that might happen. Anybody have the same fear of drawing two permits and losing all your points for a category??A buddy of mine's hunting partner drew both last year. Cow tag and Any Bull tag. What a waste.
Post by: mossyoak arrow slinger on May 11, 2013, 08:00:38 PM
I drew quality bull and antlerless in the toutle two three years ago. It was nice being able to shoot any elk that stepped in front of me
So what did you end up shooting?
Sorry i just saw this. I ended up shooting a cow! I had a chance at a real nice bull the day Weyerhauser decided to close the woods. Got on him in the morning finally got a shot and choked. He was quartering away from me between two trees I thought I had a window and was sadly wrong. That after noon we got back to our truck and Weyerhauser land was closed