Post by: dmv9 on May 06, 2013, 07:46:26 PM
I'm a total newbie.
Any ideas on gear?
I'm thinking about a Remington 870 Express Combo 12 ga with light loads #8s.
Thoughts?
Post by: Dip-Zag on May 06, 2013, 07:48:19 PM
Post by: Stilly bay on May 06, 2013, 08:10:52 PM
I'm thinking about a Remington 870 Express Combo 12 ga with light loads #8s.
great Idea on the gun. I would use steel #4's or larger for ducks and pheasants. lead #6 or 7.5's on everything else you can legally shoot lead at. lead #8's are all right for quail and dove but 7.5's or 7's give you just a little more oomph.
Post by: Kola16 on May 06, 2013, 08:15:28 PM
:yeah: I use #2 for ducks. And as far as the gun, the 870 would be good, but a Tristar Viper is even better for just a little more :tup:
I'm thinking about a Remington 870 Express Combo 12 ga with light loads #8s.
great Idea on the gun. I would use steel #4's or larger for ducks and pheasants. lead #6 or 7.5's on everything else you can legally shoot lead at. lead #8's are all right for quail and dove but 7.5's or 7's give you just a little more oomph.
Post by: coveydogs on May 06, 2013, 08:25:56 PM
Suggestion 1: Pick up regulations and read them front to back a few times.
Suggestion 2: Shells: Legally you can only use steel for waterfowl. #8's are not the best for everything.
Low number shot size is a larger bb. Example #1's are a smaller quantity of larger bbs than #8's which have a larger quantity of smaller bbs per shell.
So basically you will need a few different boxes of shell depending on the birds you are after.
My suggestion, people might have others but here it goes.
Geese: BB/#1 3 inch 12 gauge
Ducks: #2/#3 3 inch 12 gauge
Pheasants/Huns/Chuckar: #5 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge steel (I shot all steel because of where I hunt and always carrying steel I never limit myself on where I can hunt)
Quail: #7 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge steel.
Depending on the location and regulations you can shot upland with lead which a lot of people prefer.
Pick up some boxes of shells and pattern them in your gun to find the best brand for you.
Lots more suggestions if you have specific questions.
Post by: bobcat on May 06, 2013, 09:00:53 PM
Quote
Depending on the location and regulations you can shot upland with lead which a lot of people prefer. When looking at the difference between shot size moving between steel and lead keep in mind steel shot size listing is usually 2 shot sizes larger then lead for the same size bb. So a #5 steel would be roughly equivalent to a #7 lead in bb size.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that #5 steel shot is the same size as #7 lead shot? If so, that is not true. #5 shot is the same size no matter if it's lead or steel.
And on another note, where do you find #5 steel shot? I've just never seen it. I've seen #4 and #6 but never #5.
Post by: coveydogs on May 06, 2013, 09:43:38 PM
QuoteDepending on the location and regulations you can shot upland with lead which a lot of people prefer. When looking at the difference between shot size moving between steel and lead keep in mind steel shot size listing is usually 2 shot sizes larger then lead for the same size bb. So a #5 steel would be roughly equivalent to a #7 lead in bb size.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that #5 steel shot is the same size as #7 lead shot? If so, that is not true. #5 shot is the same size no matter if it's lead or steel.
And on another note, where do you find #5 steel shot? I've just never seen it. I've seen #4 and #6 but never #5.
Yeah you are right sorry size is the same equivalent impact different: "No. 4 pellets made of both materials exit the muzzle of a shotgun at 1,350 feet per second (fps), they start their journey with the same amount of energy, but the lead pellet will strike a 40-yard target with 4.4 foot-pounds (ft-lbs) while the steel pellet will deliver only 2.4 ft-lbs. In order for us to deliver the same amount of energy per pellet with steel as with lead, we must increase its diameter by two sizes. In this case we would choose No. 2 steel, which delivers 4.4 ft-lbs at 40 yards, the same as for No. 4 lead."
Kent makes an Upland Fast Steel in #5. Hard to find but when I do I buy it all.
Post by: dmv9 on May 06, 2013, 10:02:51 PM
Thanks for all the guidance.
Post by: Jrzbullelk on May 06, 2013, 10:14:11 PM
Post by: Stilly bay on May 06, 2013, 10:17:46 PM
im picking up what your putting down.QuoteDepending on the location and regulations you can shot upland with lead which a lot of people prefer. When looking at the difference between shot size moving between steel and lead keep in mind steel shot size listing is usually 2 shot sizes larger then lead for the same size bb. So a #5 steel would be roughly equivalent to a #7 lead in bb size.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that #5 steel shot is the same size as #7 lead shot? If so, that is not true. #5 shot is the same size no matter if it's lead or steel.
And on another note, where do you find #5 steel shot? I've just never seen it. I've seen #4 and #6 but never #5.
Yeah you are right sorry size is the same equivalent impact different: "No. 4 pellets made of both materials exit the muzzle of a shotgun at 1,350 feet per second (fps), they start their journey with the same amount of energy, but the lead pellet will strike a 40-yard target with 4.4 foot-pounds (ft-lbs) while the steel pellet will deliver only 2.4 ft-lbs. In order for us to deliver the same amount of energy per pellet with steel as with lead, we must increase its diameter by two sizes. In this case we would choose No. 2 steel, which delivers 4.4 ft-lbs at 40 yards, the same as for No. 4 lead."
Kent makes an Upland Fast Steel in #5. Hard to find but when I do I buy it all.
I read that #5's were actually more effective on pheasants that #4's because there was less feather balling. I never noticed a difference.
I really like #5 steel for closer shots but for longer shots it spreads out/ slows down too much for my liking. plus when steel shot gets that small its harder to find and nothing will ruin your day faster than a biting on steel shot.
for years my go to pheasant shot size was steel #2 in 2.75" shells.
to the OP make sure you really read up on those regs especially if you haven't attended a hunters safety course.
Post by: coveydogs on May 06, 2013, 10:29:28 PM
Where can I find the regs online?
Thanks for all the guidance.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/)
Post by: dmv9 on May 07, 2013, 06:29:06 AM
• Game birds with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells
The rem 870 is 4+1. How can this be a legal gun for hunting birds?
Post by: coveydogs on May 07, 2013, 07:02:10 AM
IT IS UNLAWFUL TO HUNT:
• Game birds with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells
The rem 870 is 4+1. How can this be a legal gun for hunting birds?
Most come with a plug that limit the number of shells that fit in the tube to 2, then one in the chamber. Plugs are removable but it requires a bit of dis-assembly. My guess is that unless you are buying a home defense version of the 870 you will get a plug, just make sure to ask the store/person you are buying the gun from.
Post by: dmv9 on May 07, 2013, 09:13:50 AM
Does that affect performance, accuracy, etc?
Post by: 300rum on May 07, 2013, 09:15:56 AM
Would the home defense version of the remington 870 be suitable for general birding? It has an 18" barrel versus a 26" barrel.
Does that affect performance, accuracy, etc?
Post by: 300rum on May 07, 2013, 09:17:53 AM
Post by: Stilly bay on May 07, 2013, 09:45:05 AM
Possible but not recommended.
because a short barrel will not provide enough weight out front to get a proper swing on fast moving targets. for a 12 gauge 870 a 26" barrel is just about right.
Post by: bobcat on May 07, 2013, 09:49:48 AM
Post by: Blackjaw on May 07, 2013, 09:53:42 AM
Post by: dmv9 on May 07, 2013, 10:11:09 AM
Yeah, that's not going to happen. I can't get that past the wife.
Let's start bottom up.
What kind of boots? Will hiking boots work or do they need to be rubberized or insulated? I see too many options at cabella's. I typically hike in short boot Columbia's. Would that type of ankle boot work.
Post by: bobcat on May 07, 2013, 10:24:30 AM
I wouldn't hunt pheasant or quail without a good dog. I would suggest chukar and grouse hunting. Those are birds that often you're actually better off without a dog, except for the retrieving part.
Post by: AspenBud on May 07, 2013, 10:30:32 AM
An 18 inch barrel might work good for quail but that's about it. With quail you have to shoot really quick and the shots are usually really close, so a short barrel works well. But still, I would want at least 24 inches.
Some guys who hunt thick stuff for grouse like shorter barrels. You're snap shooting at best anyhow with them and the shorter barrel stands less of a chance of banging into a branch on the way up. That said, the shortest I've heard of anyone using is 22-24 inches and I know of several people who like longer barrels, even in thick cover.
I'm fairly well convinced, for myself at least, that a 26 inch barrel is the best all around. You don't lose much when duck hunting with one and in the uplands it just makes sense.
Post by: AspenBud on May 07, 2013, 10:35:41 AM
I'm thinking about a Remington 870 Express Combo 12 ga with light loads #8s.
Thoughts?
Nothing against the Express models, I own one and for what it is it works. But you'll get a better gun if you drop a little extra money and buy an 870 Wingmaster (not to mention higher resale value).
Depending on your budget for this there are better guns out there.
A Benelli M2 American or some of the CZ doubles are not bad choices. Beyond that the prices go way up. If money isn't a concern I can make several other suggestions.
Otherwise an 870 Express or Mossberg 500 is not a bad choice to start out with.
Post by: AspenBud on May 07, 2013, 10:38:17 AM
I would suggest chukar and grouse hunting. Those are birds that often you're actually better off without a dog, except for the retrieving part.
I strongly disagree unless you're talking about whacking them in the middle of logging roads.
Post by: bobcat on May 07, 2013, 10:45:37 AM
I would suggest chukar and grouse hunting. Those are birds that often you're actually better off without a dog, except for the retrieving part.
I strongly disagree unless you're talking about whacking them in the middle of logging roads.
Yes I am. That seems to be the best way to find grouse around here, is by walking old logging roads. With a dog running out front, all the grouse fly away before you get close enough to shoot. Grouse don't hold well for a pointer, in my experience.
Post by: AspenBud on May 07, 2013, 10:48:03 AM
Would a chihuahua work? ;-)
Yeah, that's not going to happen. I can't get that past the wife.
Let's start bottom up.
What kind of boots? Will hiking boots work or do they need to be rubberized or insulated? I see too many options at cabella's. I typically hike in short boot Columbia's. Would that type of ankle boot work.
For upland hunting...
Buy a pair of Keen Oregon PCT boots for most upland hunting and a pair of Muck boots for swampy conditions.
Wingworks sells a stellar strap vest that works well for when you need to pack a lot of weight. Otherwise I try to go light and use a bird belt or Activ-Lite belt from Cabela's. You'll also want a good pair of brush pants. Snake proof gaitors or chaps aren't a bad idea if you hunt in snake country.
Most of all, you need a dog. You're success in finding birds will go up dramatically and THERE IS NOT BETTER CONSERVATION TOOL THAN A GOOD BIRD DOG. You will waste less meat and come home with birds in the bag more often with one than without. There are a lot of good breeds out there, big and small, for the job.
Post by: AspenBud on May 07, 2013, 10:50:42 AM
I would suggest chukar and grouse hunting. Those are birds that often you're actually better off without a dog, except for the retrieving part.
I strongly disagree unless you're talking about whacking them in the middle of logging roads.
Yes I am. That seems to be the best way to find grouse around here, is by walking old logging roads. With a dog running out front, all the grouse fly away before you get close enough to shoot. Grouse don't hold well for a pointer, in my experience.
Tell that to Coverdog field trialers.
That said, if a dog isn't used to handling grouse for a living it can be a big leap.
Post by: bearpaw on May 07, 2013, 10:58:08 AM
Some new guns do not have them installed. If a warden is looking to write a ticket and most are, be sure to double check your gun, some are being sold with no plug installed.
How To Make a Plug
If you can't find a plastic plug to buy, just shorten a pencil or piece of wood dowel as needed until you can only get (3) 2 3/4 inch cartridges in your gun. Then check that you can get (3) magnum shells in the magazine. You may have to shorten the plug a little more, after doing that be sure you can still only get (3) of the shorter cartridges in.
Post by: coveydogs on May 07, 2013, 11:43:03 AM
You could spend 10k in this sport just to get started. My recommendation is to pick gear that is well recommended, durable and cheap. Expect to upgrade as you get into the sport and keep the old stuff around for when your friends want to join you.
Post by: dmv9 on May 07, 2013, 12:49:05 PM
I'm in the Seattle-area (ex-Microsoftie veteran).
Send me a PM.
Post by: RoyBoy on May 07, 2013, 01:06:32 PM
Post by: AspenBud on May 07, 2013, 01:07:16 PM
A well trained hunting dog will make it more fun and you will find more birds. But if you don't have one, don't let that stop you from getting into the sport. Ask around on here at the start of the season. I'm sure someone would let you tag along with them if you promise to respect their direction and only take safe shots. If that doesn't work look for a guide who can take you out on wild birds.
You could spend 10k in this sport just to get started. My recommendation is to pick gear that is well recommended, durable and cheap. Expect to upgrade as you get into the sport and keep the old stuff around for when your friends want to join you.
:yeah:
This isn't bad advice.
There are also shooting preserves in the state that you can go to. They're often put and take operations where they plant birds for you and many have a handler and dog(s) that can go out with you for a little extra. Kind of gives you the whole picture.
Hold in mind though that not all bird hunting is the same. Pheasant, chukar, grouse, quail...they all involve differing techniques and the terrains are drastically different. You might like one type more than another. Rock climbing (chukar hunting) isn't for everyone and not everyone likes walking clear cuts with a fast moving dog (grouse). Try them all if you can.
Regarding dogs though, you will do yourself a huge favor if you attend some hunt tests and field trials. Check out both flushing and pointing dog events. They will give you an idea of what the different breeds are like and also what is possible with a dog. You might make some good aquaintances as well.
Post by: Stilly bay on May 08, 2013, 09:49:49 AM
You need a good quality leather boot for bird hunting. An 8 inch height is about right and you'll want a gore tex lined boot. I prefer non insulated. When hunting birds you're always walking so you shouldn't get cold. For duck hunting you'll need chest waders.
don't buy anything without goretex or some type of proven liner.
if your hunting the west side for pheasants you really can't beat Muck boots... don't wear nice leather hunting boots to some of our release sites .
An 18 inch barrel might work good for quail but that's about it. With quail you have to shoot really quick and the shots are usually really close, so a short barrel works well. But still, I would want at least 24 inches.If a 18 inch barrel is threaded for a choke ( are they?) it really wouldn't matter what species you are after. if you shoot steel shot it really wouldn't matter for pheasants if it was choked at all if you kept the shots under 30 yards.
I'm thinking about a Remington 870 Express Combo 12 ga with light loads #8s.
Thoughts?
Nothing against the Express models, I own one and for what it is it works. But you'll get a better gun if you drop a little extra money and buy an 870 Wingmaster (not to mention higher resale value).
good advice. just be careful buying used ( only choice in wingmasters) many remington wingmaster cannot handle steel shot. I wouldn't consider a gun that couldn't digest steel if it were to be my only one.
You could spend 10k in this sport just to get started. My recommendation is to pick gear that is well recommended, durable and cheap. Expect to upgrade as you get into the sport and keep the old stuff around for when your friends want to join you.
or you could buy durable and quality that way if you decide you hate hunting you can sell it and recoup most of your money. if you buy cheap/ poor quality stuff much of it will make your tiime in the field less enjoyable and you wouldn't be able give the stuff away when you are done with.
personally I am way too poor to be able to afford cheap gear.
Regarding dogs though, you will do yourself a huge favor if you attend some hunt tests and field trials. Check out both flushing and pointing dog events. They will give you an idea of what the different breeds are like and also what is possible with a dog. You might make some good aquaintances as well.
:yeah: X's a million. this is probably one of the most solid pieces of advice I have read on this website in regards to dogs.
do all your research BEFORE you go dog shopping.
Post by: bobcat on May 08, 2013, 10:05:41 AM
Quote
If a 18 inch barrel is threaded for a choke ( are they?) it really wouldn't matter what species you are after. if you shoot steel shot it really wouldn't matter for pheasants if it was choked at all if you kept the shots under 30 yards.
True, the length of the barrel has little effect on the actual ability of the gun in killing birds, but most people will shoot much better with a 26 inch barrel versus a 18 inch. I said it would be ok for quail because with quail you're mostly taking snap shots, with 20 yards being a long shot and as close as 20 FEET being just as likely. For that type of shooting you don't need to worry much about leading a bird, and following through.
How often do you see skeet or trap shooters using an 18 inch barrel?
Post by: Stilly bay on May 08, 2013, 10:20:07 AM
QuoteIf a 18 inch barrel is threaded for a choke ( are they?) it really wouldn't matter what species you are after. if you shoot steel shot it really wouldn't matter for pheasants if it was choked at all if you kept the shots under 30 yards.
True, the length of the barrel has little effect on the actual ability of the gun in killing birds, but most people will shoot much better with a 26 inch barrel versus a 18 inch. I said it would be ok for quail because with quail you're mostly taking snap shots, with 20 yards being a long shot and as close as 20 FEET being just as likely. For that type of shooting you don't need to worry much about leading a bird, and following through.
How often do you see skeet or trap shooters using an 18 inch barrel?
I agree whole heartedly ( even said so earlier in this thread) im just trying to separate the pepper from the fly chit. personally I feel that within reason the longer the barrel the better off you are even when you are supposedly snap shooting... because there will be a time when grouse or quail hunting that you will need to give the bird a proper lead. also I feel weight balance and fit are just as much a factor in snap shooting and short stubby barrels really don't do you any favors at all... but I was going to spare the newbie all that hot air. :tup:
Post by: dmv9 on May 08, 2013, 11:24:43 AM
Post by: AspenBud on May 08, 2013, 01:27:15 PM
I've been doing some investigation. Any thoughts on a Mossberg 500 vs a Remington 870?
Do you prefer Budweiser or Coors?
I'll take the 870 every time, but I know guys who love their Mossberg's, including some vets of Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't overlook the Browning BPS or Benelli Nova either. Just keep in mind that heavier guns get REALLY heavy when upland hunting. 7 lbs doesn't sound like a lot but...
Post by: elk247 on May 08, 2013, 01:32:23 PM
Post by: jennyfell55 on May 08, 2013, 07:06:13 PM
I've been doing some investigation. Any thoughts on a Mossberg 500 vs a Remington 870?
It's basically the Chevy vs. Ford debate. You'll find fierce defenders on either side of the fence. I went with the Mossberg, because for me I like the safety being on top of the tang. It feels much more natural to me. I also like that the shell elevator's default position on the Mossberg is up, so I can load and unload from the bottom without risking getting pinched.
Have you had a chance to handle models of each and see which feels better to you?
Post by: Stilly bay on May 08, 2013, 07:31:42 PM
an 870 will outlast a mossberg by several thousand rounds. replace a few parts and you are back in business. the 870 is really one of the most durable guns made for its price point.
Post by: wildweeds on May 19, 2013, 08:31:43 AM
I've got an express,bought it for duck hunting 20 years ago,it's not as flashy or smooth as a wingmaster but it always went "Bang",the rough machining on the internals wear lapped themselves in not much time at all.I've field stripped and put it back together in a ditch.They are reliable,easy to find parts for.My buddy had a 500 mossberg the thing was a cantankerous joke and broken and at the gunsmith more than it was afield,he went cheap on the berg and then gave up and bought an express.
The maximum number of shells is 3,that includes the one in the pipe and 2 in the magazine,the advice on plug building earlier is wrong,the way to go about it is right but the quantity of shells inserted once done is wrong.Your gun would be capable of holding 4 for use if you follow this advice and you would be getting a ticket if checked.Your plug should be 5 5/8 inches long for an 870.I just measured my factory supplied plug ,and could only get 2 shells in the magazine of either variety.If the plug thing makes you dizzy you could always just go for a gun that is always legal no matter what, Over under or side by side :chuckle:
Should you travel to points east like south dakota there are no limitations on the shell capacity for upland game,the most popular local gun in South dakota is a benneli autoloader because they hold 9 shells total.
Shotgun Plugs
Some new guns do not have them installed. If a warden is looking to write a ticket and most are, be sure to double check your gun, some are being sold with no plug installed.
How To Make a Plug
If you can't find a plastic plug to buy, just shorten a pencil or piece of wood dowel as needed until you can only get (3) 2 3/4 inch cartridges in your gun. Then check that you can get (3) magnum shells in the magazine. You may have to shorten the plug a little more, after doing that be sure you can still only get (3) of the shorter cartridges in.
Post by: AspenBud on May 20, 2013, 07:02:20 AM
.If the plug thing makes you dizzy you could always just go for a gun that is always legal no matter what, Over under or side by side :chuckle:
Or a Benelli Ultralight. :)
Post by: Stilly bay on May 20, 2013, 08:33:27 AM
.If the plug thing makes you dizzy you could always just go for a gun that is always legal no matter what, Over under or side by side :chuckle:
Or a Benelli Ultralight. :)
not for a nube, you can't appreciate a Benelli Ultralight until you drag around something like an 870 express for a few years. :chuckle:
Post by: BiggLuke on May 20, 2013, 08:47:28 AM
He's new.
REALLY NEW.
start with the basics.
Have you hunted big game before? you said you wanted to start hunting birds, so I'm curious if you've been hunting at all before?
If so, then for any upland birds (pheasants, quail, dove) the gear is about the same as hunting for deer.
I would recomend investing in a really good pair of boots. Something that is warm, and will keep your feet dry. You spend a lot of time hiking around getting muddy and getting seed down your boots while bird hunting.
After that, I would recomend spending all summer at a local trap and skeet club to learn how to use your shotgun. Once you get one that is.
The more you practice, the better it will be for you in the field you first time.
I also recomend going with family or friends your first time. There is a lot to learn your first year.
If it's ducks your after..... oh boy. That's a whole nother ball game.... lol.
You're gonna need at bare minimum: Camo from head to toe, and waders. Wether hip bots or chest waders, they are a must. It's tough to go after ducks, if you can't GO after ducks. :chuckle:
Maybe you should repost some more specific questions.
Like what kind (insert item) should I use and why? There are a million things to learn about bird hunting.
But like I stated earlier.... best thing you can do now, is put in a bunch of practice shooting trap.
If you can bust 13 or so out of 25.... then you got this.
And study the regs. Even last years regs are a good read through, even though they might be slightly diffenert this year.
Post by: BiggLuke on May 20, 2013, 08:51:58 AM
I've been doing some investigation. Any thoughts on a Mossberg 500 vs a Remington 870?Buy an 870 over the mossberg.
870's are more reliable and MUCH easier to take apart for cleaning.
Post by: Stilly bay on May 20, 2013, 04:23:50 PM
Ok guys.... quit with the speeches.
He's new.
REALLY NEW.
Oh good, Big Luke is here now.
OP - just disregard all the other bits of information in this thread from here on out, Luke will set you straight.
Post by: BiggLuke on May 21, 2013, 09:40:19 AM
you know it....
Post by: dmv9 on May 27, 2013, 08:49:08 AM
I'm still thinking about the Rem 870 Express but now in 20ga.
I'm just considering options.
Post by: bobcat on May 27, 2013, 09:37:07 AM
I remember one opening day in eastern Washington, 5 minutes after legal hunting hours, I had one rooster jump up in front of me at about 35 yards, dumped it with the 20 gauge, and when I shot, about 30 more roosters got up and I dumped two more.
I got to hunt for 5 minutes and in 3 seconds of shooting I had my limit and was done for the day. So I will never say the 20 gauge is not adequate, but later in the season the closest shot you may get will be 50 or 60 yards, and for that you need a 12 gauge with a full choke and heavy loads.
Post by: bearpaw on May 27, 2013, 11:29:59 AM
Post by: Stilly bay on May 27, 2013, 11:33:14 AM
If were talking wild pheasants and steel shot out of a 20- I would forget about it entirely. Unless you want to shoot 3" 20 gauge steel shot, a 20 just can't begin to compare to what a 12gauge can do with steel.
If were talking release site pheasants (steel/non toxic required) that usually flush from right under your feet go ahead and use a 20 with steel shot all you like. Your shots will usually be very close and well within range of 20 gauge steel's poor ballistics. Heck I even use a 28gauge from time to time at the release site, but I have dogs to root out the cripples for me if I don't make a perfect shot.
If your only going to have one gun and plan on using it for everything especially duck hunting a 20 just isn't going to go the distance.
Post by: bear hunter on May 27, 2013, 11:36:15 AM
Unless you have an issue with recoil I would go 12 gauge, you can hunt any bird with a 12, the 20 has limits. You can even get light loads for the 12 if desired. Mossbergs are fine for the average person but the Rem 870 will last longer and doesn't cost that much more. I own both and like both. There are several other inexpensive brands that will work fine for the average person as well.Well said :yeah: If you are getting the combo. I would go with the slug barrel with iron sights and 28in vent rib set. Just in case you want to hunt deer or bear.
Post by: dmv9 on May 27, 2013, 12:42:06 PM
Post by: fethrduster on May 29, 2013, 08:31:08 AM
Post by: BiggLuke on May 29, 2013, 08:55:03 AM
The most important thing you can bring is desire. You'll refine your gear as you go, but the most important thing is just getting out there, making mistakes, having some victories, and making great memories. I remember starting out as a kid with a 30" full choked Browning BPS pump 12ga. I missed and crippled some roosters at close range because it was choked too tight, and I lugged that monstrosity up chukar mountains because it was all I had. But you know what? Those memories are still with me, and they wouldn't be any more meaningful if I had been using a fancy double gun. Oh, and one more thing: don't forget to load your gun. I remember a quick hunt as a kid on the last hour of the last day of a 3 day rooster hunt near Othello. My springer and I headed out into a plowed dirt field, and out in the middle, he flushed a rooster and it got up, and my gun went "click." Then another rooster. I pumped the gun, then "click." Then another rooster. Same thing. 3 big wild roosters, all flushing in sequence seconds apart, 25 yds away, and I forgot to load my gun. I still remember that vividly. :bash:
Well said.
Post by: dmv9 on May 29, 2013, 10:14:58 AM
Post by: BiggLuke on May 29, 2013, 10:23:42 AM
or Unless you go to a private hunt club or resort that raises them.
Post by: Huntboy on May 29, 2013, 11:10:06 AM
Ok guys.... quit with the speeches.
He's new.
REALLY NEW.
Oh good, Big Luke is here now.
OP - just disregard all the other bits of information in this thread from here on out, Luke will set you straight.
:yeah: :chuckle:
Post by: AspenBud on May 29, 2013, 04:26:11 PM
:twocents:Stick with the 12gauge for now. A 20 is adequate for pheasants up to around 40 yards, but as the season progresses most of the pheasants will flush further and further out and really test the range of a 20gauge slinging lead. Until you can learn to pass up shots that are just a little too far away, you will probably cripple a few birds and crippled pheasants are damn near impossible to run down unless you have a good dog.
If were talking wild pheasants and steel shot out of a 20- I would forget about it entirely. Unless you want to shoot 3" 20 gauge steel shot, a 20 just can't begin to compare to what a 12gauge can do with steel.
If were talking release site pheasants (steel/non toxic required) that usually flush from right under your feet go ahead and use a 20 with steel shot all you like. Your shots will usually be very close and well within range of 20 gauge steel's poor ballistics. Heck I even use a 28gauge from time to time at the release site, but I have dogs to root out the cripples for me if I don't make a perfect shot.
If your only going to have one gun and plan on using it for everything especially duck hunting a 20 just isn't going to go the distance.
Don't limit yourself to steel for non-tox. Hevi-Shot is good stuff. It's a little more spendy but you'll get better results. There are some other alternatives out there that work ok as well.
In a perfect world I would shoot a 16 gauge for everything. Carries like a 20, hits like a 12. But ammo is harder to find.
Post by: Stilly bay on May 29, 2013, 05:30:26 PM
Don't limit yourself to steel for non-tox. Hevi-Shot is good stuff. It's a little more spendy but you'll get better results. There are some other alternatives out there that work ok as well.
In a perfect world I would shoot a 16 gauge for everything. Carries like a 20, hits like a 12. But ammo is harder to find.
Don't you know talking about high filluting, fancy pants ,$3 a shot ammo will get you tarred and feathered around here? come on man!
Hevi shot is great stuff, but I would want to be a proficient shot on clays and live birds before I made that kind of investment in ammo.
Hevis Shot really impressed the heck out of me last season when I used it in my 28 gauge and folded a good sized green head at 40 yards, there were nine complete pass throughs that hit the bird.
I agree about the 16, I am a born again 16 gauger and really don't need much else for the uplands, although its a bit light for some waterfowl applications.
Post by: AspenBud on May 29, 2013, 08:44:05 PM
Don't limit yourself to steel for non-tox. Hevi-Shot is good stuff. It's a little more spendy but you'll get better results. There are some other alternatives out there that work ok as well.
In a perfect world I would shoot a 16 gauge for everything. Carries like a 20, hits like a 12. But ammo is harder to find.
Don't you know talking about high filluting, fancy pants ,$3 a shot ammo will get you tarred and feathered around here? come on man!
Hevi shot is great stuff, but I would want to be a proficient shot on clays and live birds before I made that kind of investment in ammo.
Hevis Shot really impressed the heck out of me last season when I used it in my 28 gauge and folded a good sized green head at 40 yards, there were nine complete pass throughs that hit the bird.
I agree about the 16, I am a born again 16 gauger and really don't need much else for the uplands, although its a bit light for some waterfowl applications.
I like my birds to hit the ground dead. I hate ringing necks so I make the investment for better or worse. Bismuth works nicely too. :tup:
Post by: Stilly bay on May 30, 2013, 11:19:09 AM
Don't limit yourself to steel for non-tox. Hevi-Shot is good stuff. It's a little more spendy but you'll get better results. There are some other alternatives out there that work ok as well.
In a perfect world I would shoot a 16 gauge for everything. Carries like a 20, hits like a 12. But ammo is harder to find.
Don't you know talking about high filluting, fancy pants ,$3 a shot ammo will get you tarred and feathered around here? come on man!
Hevi shot is great stuff, but I would want to be a proficient shot on clays and live birds before I made that kind of investment in ammo.
Hevis Shot really impressed the heck out of me last season when I used it in my 28 gauge and folded a good sized green head at 40 yards, there were nine complete pass throughs that hit the bird.
I agree about the 16, I am a born again 16 gauger and really don't need much else for the uplands, although its a bit light for some waterfowl applications.
I like my birds to hit the ground dead, because my run off EP won't retrieve, so I make the investment for better or worse. :tup:
well since you put it that way :chuckle:
Post by: AspenBud on May 30, 2013, 05:08:59 PM
Don't limit yourself to steel for non-tox. Hevi-Shot is good stuff. It's a little more spendy but you'll get better results. There are some other alternatives out there that work ok as well.
In a perfect world I would shoot a 16 gauge for everything. Carries like a 20, hits like a 12. But ammo is harder to find.
Don't you know talking about high filluting, fancy pants ,$3 a shot ammo will get you tarred and feathered around here? come on man!
Hevi shot is great stuff, but I would want to be a proficient shot on clays and live birds before I made that kind of investment in ammo.
Hevis Shot really impressed the heck out of me last season when I used it in my 28 gauge and folded a good sized green head at 40 yards, there were nine complete pass throughs that hit the bird.
I agree about the 16, I am a born again 16 gauger and really don't need much else for the uplands, although its a bit light for some waterfowl applications.
I like my birds to hit the ground dead, because my run off EP won't retrieve, so I make the investment for better or worse. :tup:
well since you put it that way :chuckle:
Hey, retrieving would be important to me to if finding birds was as rare an event as it is for you setter guys! ;)
Post by: dmv9 on June 28, 2013, 04:35:57 PM
Time to go to the range :)