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Equipment & Gear => Power Equipment & RV => Topic started by: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 06:22:18 PM

Title: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 06:22:18 PM: Have a new rebuilt ford 360 fe in a 1972 highboy and it won't charge! New battery, alternator, and voltage regulator. I'm thinking the problem would be a grounded wire but new idea where to start looking for that. Put the motor in in November and wanna drive it!
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Ridgeratt on May 17, 2013, 06:40:58 PM: see if this helps"

http://www.fordification.com/tech/wiring/wiring-diagram-72_quick.jpg (http://www.fordification.com/tech/wiring/wiring-diagram-72_quick.jpg)

Print it and buy some colored pencils and follow the lines!!!
Coloring for adults.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: rtspring on May 17, 2013, 07:18:54 PM: New alternator could be bad! Most are rebuilt, I would test the alternator first.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: dannysdaddy on May 17, 2013, 07:25:44 PM: check your ground for the battery, starter and alternator. had the same problem in my chevy and it was corroded. you can check your alternator by starting the truck and unhooking the battery terminals. if it runs it should be ok if it dies its definately bad.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 07:39:59 PM: We can jump start the truck and It'll run for 5-10 minutes and then die.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Fishaholic on May 17, 2013, 07:44:38 PM: check your starter relay? had the same problem with my 76 and my 84
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Fishaholic on May 17, 2013, 07:45:56 PM: well start it up and remove the neg battery cable if it dies you need a new alternator
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 08:07:42 PM: If it dies right off the bat then it's the alternator? I haven't checked the starter relay. How could that affect it not charging?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: rtspring on May 17, 2013, 08:11:34 PM: When you jump it and it starts, your giving the battery a little charge. So it sounds like the alternator is not charging the battery
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 08:19:37 PM: yeah I know. ive been told it could be the battery, so I changed all 3 because it wouldn't hurt having new stuff with a new motor and didn't fix it. someone then told me it sounds like I have a grounded wire somewhere.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Fishaholic on May 17, 2013, 08:23:59 PM: Quote from: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 08:07:42 PM
If it dies right off the bat then it's the alternator? I haven't checked the starter relay. How could that affect it not charging?

ya it could be. 1499 At cut rate 16 ar napa easy fix man. had it happen to me in all the fords I have owned and fixed them off 3 other fords.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Fishaholic on May 17, 2013, 08:27:08 PM: Quote from: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 08:19:37 PM
yeah I know. ive been told it could be the battery, so I changed all 3 because it wouldn't hurt having new stuff with a new motor and didn't fix it. someone then told me it sounds like I have a grounded wire somewhere.

do you have a manual with the wiring maps? if so start chaising wires. there are not that many.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on May 17, 2013, 08:29:45 PM: Check all your ground wires, and clean the battery terminals. Most automotive electrical problems are just a bad ground. Alternator might be bad, or the voltage regulator could be bad. Some vehicles have the voltage regulator right in/on the alternator. That's where it is on my '90 Bronco II, so Ford might have put them all there....
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 08:35:22 PM: regulator is by the radiator. battery is on the charger and we'll check the alternator in a little while. I call this truck the blue devil. anytime we fix something else goes wrong!
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Bofire on May 18, 2013, 08:56:22 AM: :) Does your ground wire on the Batt go to the frame or the motor? if it goes to the motor you might need another from the motor to the frame.
Carl
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 18, 2013, 09:17:17 AM: The ground wire does go from the battery to the frame but when we had the 390 in it before that's how it was setup and ran great. Started it up last night and took the negative battery wire off. The truck shut off immediatly. About to take the alternator in to hav it checked.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Fishaholic on May 18, 2013, 10:34:51 AM: yes you need a new one. bring that one in you will get a core charge.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: jackelope on May 18, 2013, 10:44:53 AM: Quote from: ddjj1991 on May 18, 2013, 10:34:51 AM
yes you need a new one. bring that one in you will get a core charge.

That is assuming the wiring is all good. I agree, have your alternator tested. If it tests good, start chasing wires. Make sure nothing got pinched/broken/damaged during the course of putting the new motor in it. Sounds like you got a bunk alternator. Wouldn't be the 1st time that's happened.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Fishaholic on May 18, 2013, 10:51:11 AM: I just replaced one in my ranger and i replaced on in my chev blazer.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 18, 2013, 12:49:35 PM: Had the alternator tested and it passed.
Title: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: jackelope on May 18, 2013, 01:12:29 PM: Do you have a meter like a Fluke or other multi-meter?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 18, 2013, 05:39:07 PM: No I don't.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Ridgeratt on May 18, 2013, 05:42:30 PM: You can find a Ohm meter at most auto parts stores and not very much.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Mudman on May 18, 2013, 06:00:51 PM: Trace wires and test them. Alt charge in particular. Reg. or wire? Is there a braided ground strap from engine to frame?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: winshooter88 on May 18, 2013, 06:19:29 PM: If you have a grounded positive wire somewhere when you hook up the battery there will be sparks coming from the battery cable, if not you probably don't have a shorted wire. You may have a broken or loose power wire somewhere. Make sure that you have power on the large wire to the alternator and make sure that you have good ground from the battery to the frame and to the engine. Some of the older Fords required that you polarize the new regulator before they would charge, if that is the case there should be instructions in the box with the new regulator. If you have power and ground to the system and you remove the battery cable after it starts and it immediately dies the alternator is most likely bad even if it tests good.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Hunterman on May 18, 2013, 07:07:43 PM: Were is your neg. battery cable hooked to? It should be connected to the block. There should be a braided wire from the firewall to the last bold on the intake manifold left side.

The charging system on the 360 consist of the Batt., Alt., and the voltage reg. ( I have owned older ford for many years). This may sound funny but an alt. can check out good, and still be bad. They are not tested under torque.

Did you put NEW battery cables on? If not start with the neg. cable and replace it. I have had the neg. cable go bad on me.

Hunterman(Tony)
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 18, 2013, 07:34:37 PM: The battery cable does spark when I put it in the battery.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Hunterman on May 18, 2013, 07:39:24 PM: Were are you located ??

Hunterman(Tony)
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Fishaholic on May 18, 2013, 07:42:27 PM: Im thinking it the alternatorr. I had a s 10 and it would die after a bit. I changed it out problem solved and they tested it and said it was fine. Look for a starter and alternator repair man in your town..
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: elk247 on May 18, 2013, 07:50:24 PM: I had to exchange the alternator on my 85 f-250 twice to get a good one from napa. They all "tested" good at the store.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: winshooter88 on May 19, 2013, 04:50:00 AM: How bad did it spark?, Just a little or like some one trying to arc weld? Did the battery cables get warm or hot very quickly? If the cables only got warm or stayed cold it probably isn't shorted out. If it acted like an arc welder and the cables got hot very quickly then you probably have a shorted power to ground. Also Hunterman is correct, a alternator can test out good and still be bad.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: BigGoonTuna on May 19, 2013, 05:46:45 AM: Quote from: rtspring on May 17, 2013, 07:18:54 PM
New alternator could be bad! Most are rebuilt, I would test the alternator first.
:yeah:i once spent all afternoon putting an alternator in my old toyota pickup(one has to pull the lower radiator hose and drain the coolant on models with power steering), only to find out i'd bought a dud. took it back to the store(schmucks) to verify, yep, dead out of the box. no problem they said, gave me another one. i made sure to have them test it...it was no good either!
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 19, 2013, 07:59:49 PM: Checked the wires and they look fine. Going to get a different alternator tomorrow. I think I'm going to get one of the single wire style. Hopefully that fixes things.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: coachcw on May 19, 2013, 08:30:31 PM: Stop shot gunning it . First find a test light and see if you have voltage at the battery leed at the alternator . if you don't check the fusible links at the starter solenoid. second jump the first and the third wires at the regulator with the key on and see if it charges . most fords need a battery that has over 12 volts to excite the charging system . If it still dosnt charge check for voltage at the field wire with the first and third jumped . if you do have it the problem is in the alternator. any questions just give me a call at (206)522-6100. Corey day work number.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 19, 2013, 11:06:29 PM: Alternator has power to it. Not sure how to jump the regulator. The field wire is the one labeled fld?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on May 20, 2013, 11:00:25 AM: Quote from: rtspring on May 17, 2013, 07:18:54 PM
:yeah:i once spent all afternoon putting an alternator in my old toyota pickup(one has to pull the lower radiator hose and drain the coolant on models with power steering), only to find out i'd bought a dud. took it back to the store(schmucks) to verify, yep, dead out of the box. no problem they said, gave me another one. i made sure to have them test it...it was no good either!

Yep--years back, a friend of mine had the same thing happen with 2 Shucks rebuilt starters for his old Toyota pickup. When they offered him a third one, he said "no, give me my money back!". He went to NAPA and got one that worked...
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: coachcw on May 20, 2013, 10:07:24 PM: the regulator plug in has three wires together and one alil further away. jump the first and the third on the three side start it up and hold the rpm about 1500 to 2000 rpm the voltage should climb up to almost 18volts . remember to test with a charged battery
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 22, 2013, 06:15:33 PM: What is this? And what does it do?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on May 22, 2013, 08:54:44 PM: It looks like a Fusible Link--like a fuse, but it's placed in a line. They are soldered in to replace them if they're burned out.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: hrd2fnd on May 22, 2013, 09:00:05 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: coachcw on May 22, 2013, 09:24:00 PM: I found using a 4651 headlamp bulb for a test light works good to carry a load . hook one side of bulb to the alternator case and touch the other to the battery post on the back of the alternator , leave it on for a minute or two it will load the circuit and check for case ground and power it the light dis down touch one side to the battery if the light is strong then the fault lies in the power feed . just start back tracking . if the light still is dim then you have a ground fault.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Mudman on May 23, 2013, 09:54:43 AM: Is it fixed yet? :drool:
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 23, 2013, 01:48:17 PM: No. The wires look fine. My uncles going to bring a multeter tonight and check things.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Mudman on May 23, 2013, 02:00:02 PM: Dumb question but have you swapped batteries and tried it? Elect. gremlins are so frustrating. Alt. isnt charging, bat isnt taking the charge or reg. isnt working or alt. is bad or wires. Is reg hooked up properly? When you said you jump start it and it ran 5-10 minutes it is a clue. Bat. charge depleted and eng. dies yet ya needed a jump to start it? Batt. is low voltage already and that is why you had to jump it. Then the weak batt and/or alt. ran it awhile. Your batt. is too weak. 2 problems here. Slow charge batt, check volts and truck should start. If not replace it.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on May 24, 2013, 06:36:05 PM: Another dumb question--are the battery terminals and posts clean? I've seen wires and posts so dirty with that black build-up that the engine won't start....
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on May 24, 2013, 06:53:26 PM: I sure like reading through HW posts like this. Everyone trying to help and I am learning along the way! Good job everyone! :tup:
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on May 28, 2013, 12:26:40 PM: I will charge the battery fully and try again I want to thank everyone for helping me on this. anything electric on a vehicle isn't my strong suit.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on November 17, 2013, 01:07:23 PM: So for an update.... This truck hasn't been touched since May. I got way to busy with work and getting my house done. Then hunting season hit... So now that deer season is done for us id really like to get back on this and get it going! Back when we put the motor in I remember we got a wire wrong on the alternator and a little smoke came out for the alternator. I've out 3 alternators on back in May and still won't charge. I don't have any kind of meter to check the wires. I think it could be one of he fuse able links. It would make sense. How does someone change those links?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 18, 2013, 08:43:00 AM: Quote from: Maverick on May 17, 2013, 07:39:59 PM
We can jump start the truck and It'll run for 5-10 minutes and then die.

Sounds more like a fuel issue--what kind of fuel pump was on the 390 vs. the 360? On the engine? Electric pump in the tank? Clogged filter(s)?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: DRobnsn on November 18, 2013, 08:49:21 AM: Quote from: Maverick on November 17, 2013, 01:07:23 PM
So for an update.... This truck hasn't been touched since May. I got way to busy with work and getting my house done. Then hunting season hit... So now that deer season is done for us id really like to get back on this and get it going! Back when we put the motor in I remember we got a wire wrong on the alternator and a little smoke came out for the alternator. I've out 3 alternators on back in May and still won't charge. I don't have any kind of meter to check the wires. I think it could be one of he fuse able links. It would make sense. How does someone change those links?

Ditch the Ford alternator and put on a GM 1 wire, problem solved. Make sure you have good clean grounds running everywhere. I did this to my 76 Ford when I pulled the 360 and put in the 428.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Buckmark on November 18, 2013, 08:51:30 AM: Quote from: Maverick on November 17, 2013, 01:07:23 PM
So for an update.... This truck hasn't been touched since May. I got way to busy with work and getting my house done. Then hunting season hit... So now that deer season is done for us id really like to get back on this and get it going! Back when we put the motor in I remember we got a wire wrong on the alternator and a little smoke came out for the alternator. I've out 3 alternators on back in May and still won't charge. I don't have any kind of meter to check the wires. I think it could be one of he fuse able links. It would make sense. How does someone change those links?
This would of been usefull information in your very first post.. :DOH:
You very well may of smoked something else, you need to check links etc, get a cheap multi meter.......
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Hunterman on November 18, 2013, 09:19:16 AM: Quote from: Maverick on November 17, 2013, 01:07:23 PM
So for an update.... This truck hasn't been touched since May. I got way to busy with work and getting my house done. Then hunting season hit... So now that deer season is done for us id really like to get back on this and get it going! Back when we put the motor in I remember we got a wire wrong on the alternator and a little smoke came out for the alternator. I've out 3 alternators on back in May and still won't charge. I don't have any kind of meter to check the wires. I think it could be one of he fuse able links. It would make sense. How does someone change those links?

Maverick:

You may have smoked the "Voltage Regulator" seen it done before with charging problems. Also believe this or not the negative battery cable could be your problem. The cable itself could be bad. As far as those fuse able links go, take them out if you think they are bad, put regular fuse links in.

Remember that there are only 3 items to the charging system on your 360/390. the Alternator, Voltage Regulator, and the Battery. Check all three, and you should be running.

Hunterman(Tony)
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 18, 2013, 11:34:04 AM: Fusible Links are replaced by soldering a new one into the wire. Not as simple as swapping a fuse. Never had one blow, so I've never replaced one. A dead short or wire hooked up wrong might do it, though.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on November 20, 2013, 08:10:36 AM: It has a new battery, new alternator, new battery cables, new volt regulator, new volt regulator plug, and starter solenoid. How does one solder one in? Could I just cut them out and put in normal fuses in the line? How big a fuses should be used if I could do that?
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: DRobnsn on November 20, 2013, 09:55:27 AM: You can buy new pre connected fuse able links. Oreilly's sells them in wire gauge sizes. It would be really nice to know if it is actually the fuse able link though. Do you have anything laying around that is 12volt powered like an old tailight socket or something you could tap into the bad side of the link to see if it is in fact bad? Even a car stereo would work.

Another option would be to put in a temporary jumper wire between the fuse able links attachments. Its a little risky though depending on how that link got fried if it is indeed fried.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: DRobnsn on November 20, 2013, 10:06:16 AM: Also disconnecting the negative while the engine is running to test the charging system is a VERY BAD idea. In your era of truck it may be okay but its still not a good idea. The battery tends to act like a voltage regulator of sorts and when the negative is pulled the charging system can spike the voltage and ruin components.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 20, 2013, 11:25:42 AM: Things are not supposed to smoke in a vehicle system. Reminds me of an interview I saw with an old Lionel Train expert a while back. He told about the time he and his dad went to the store to buy a 1946 Lionel train set--the first ones made. They took it home, set it up, and ran it. It was great! It even smoked! When it quit and they took it back to the store, they found out that it wasn't supposed to smoke... The 1947 model did! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: DRobnsn on November 20, 2013, 11:32:58 AM: Quote from: Heredoggydoggy on November 20, 2013, 11:25:42 AM
Things are not supposed to smoke in a vehicle system. Reminds me of an interview I saw with an old Lionel Train expert a while back. He told about the time he and his dad went to the store to buy a 1946 Lionel train set--the first ones made. They took it home, set it up, and ran it. It was great! It even smoked! When it quit and they took it back to the store, they found out that it wasn't supposed to smoke... The 1947 model did! :chuckle:

Yep, when something around work fries we say "well, I guess it let the smoke out!" :chuckle:
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on February 12, 2014, 10:54:46 AM: i know its been awhile but i finally got this dang truck fixed! the new voltage regulator i put on it was garbage. put a new on her and she runs like a champ, besides the exhaust leak. A big thanks to everyone for the help they gave me on this. next will be replacing the hub seals, fixing the exhaust, maybe trying to fit some 35s under it and just enjoying driving it.
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on February 12, 2014, 07:16:49 PM: Glad it was a simple fix--(it usually is!). For something that vintage, pick up a Chilton's Manual. A lot of the old systems are explained in it. The one fault I've found with these manuals is it says to remove _____ something, but it doesn't say how to remove ____ something, (without breaking it!). I've found LMC Truck's catalogs very informative for my love of old Ford Rangers and Bronco II's. And it always amazes me how much is still available at the parts houses for these old beasts!
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: coachcw on February 13, 2014, 06:16:23 AM: when tackling your exhaust leak I'd recommend using REM FLEX header gaskets they are thick and seal well , soak the bolts for a week or so with pb blaster mainly the through holes from the rear , good luck !
Title: Re: Need ford 360 help!
Post by: Maverick on February 13, 2014, 08:35:06 AM: Already using those coach but thanks! The leaks are at the collectors on the opposite ends for the headers.