Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Power Equipment & RV => Topic started by: dkecoleman on May 24, 2013, 09:25:56 PM

Title: Elk Calls
Post by: dkecoleman on May 24, 2013, 09:25:56 PM: Has anyone used the Pack "A" Bull calling system, if so what's your thoughts? I'm new to calling and looking for a tube to learn on, currently looking at Bugling Bull and Phelps. Thanks for any inputs.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: LBES on May 24, 2013, 10:13:08 PM: I haven't used those brands... but the Primos stuff has always been good for me. I have the Primos Terminator (a classic and super easy) and also have the baffle bugle which is a little smaller (easy to pack) and has more of a scream which I like because it sounds a little smaller... and since you're also in Orting, I could give ya a demo?
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: MIKEXRAY on May 25, 2013, 06:45:44 PM: I use the Bugling Bulls elk calls and really get good results. I've been with a few other hunters over the years who call first on all the other calls available and I would say a half dozen times they called with no results and I would let out a locator call & get a reply. Something about my Bugling bull tube they really like. I haven't tried them all and by no means am an expert but I give them two thumbs up. Mike
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: dkecoleman on May 25, 2013, 11:39:00 PM: Thanks for the replies, there are a lot of options out there. I have heard nothing but good things a out BB and Phelps.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: dfresh96 on May 26, 2013, 06:34:51 AM: Phelps has been good to me!!! Haven't closed the deal yet but got replies.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: Morrison4375 on May 26, 2013, 06:53:53 AM: I like the berry fatal attraction cow call and all of the phelps calls
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 26, 2013, 08:27:52 AM: Jason Phelps' single reed wooden calls are the bomb. He also has a great assortment of reeds and sells a nifty tube. I was with Washelkhunter last year driving a small herd nuts with a combination of those and a Primos tube call.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: Crunchy on May 26, 2013, 08:33:57 AM: I would buy a few different reeds to see which ones work best for you. Find one that you can nail every try. Go to toysrus and buy a few plastic bats and start experimenting with different sized openings. You can make a few bugles. You will be surprised how good they may sound. I enjoy DIY projects and it doesn't get much simpler.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: Tbar on May 26, 2013, 08:46:05 AM: There are several good calls and call makers out there (phelps, berry, bugling bulls, even primos). That said you have to look at the season and what you are targeting. Phelps cow call is a great call and real easy to use. Bugling bulls calls are very consistent (the most consistent I've used). I've also called several bulls using berry calls exclusively.
Now to the next level of hunting/calling elk. I cannot put a value on what I've learned from Glenn Berry and Elknut. Their instruction and customer service is off the chart. Elknut is an encyclopedia of elk hunting I would recommend shooting him a pm. He runs one of the best businesses I have ever dealt with. :twocents:
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: TheHunt on May 26, 2013, 08:51:38 AM: I have not used phelps calls but I have tried the rest. If you are looking for a tube it has to have the right ring. Elk Nut's, Joel Turners, BB all have the right tone. Different plastics have tone capabilities. For me the tube will determine the type of hunting you are planning on doing. If you are hunting out of an ATV, Motorcycle, truck then the size does not matter. If you are back packing into the timber and have limited space then Joel Turners in my opinion is the ticket. It is small protected enough that will not make noise if it gets banged by brush.

If you are looking for a diaphragm you will have to see which ones have a consistency of the anchor position of the latex to the call. That is quality manufacturing of the call. Poor quality will make you learn each diaphragm as each one will have a different tone. So look at the packages at the store. If you see different anchor points or stress points then do not buy. Here are the ones that I see which have quality. BB diaphragm two years ago had poor quality. I looked at 20 packages at the Puyallup Archery shop and they all were inconsistent. The ones which provided the best at the store was Glen Berry. Premo is a hit and miss but you can take the entire rack off the wall and find 7 that look exactly the same.

Just my opinion...
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: JPhelps on May 26, 2013, 07:13:03 PM: I don't know if this thread has diverged or not but I will do my best to answer some questions and explain my process.

First of all for an external mouthpiece bugle the conqueror mouthpiece is as good as it gets (used by me, BB and Elknut).

For Diaphragms, I GUARANTEE every one of my diaphragms will be the SAME!!! If they aren't I toss them in the garbage pile and make another one. If for any reason you get a call that isn't the same as the last one I made you let me know (I have made a few changes to the calls over time though) and I will get you taken care of. This is the one added bonus of me being the QA/QC as the calls leave the shop.

With all of that said...
Unfortunately, there is only one way to find out what diaphragms are going to work for you. Everyone's mouth is different. You need to buy some and practice and test for yourself. Some people want/need a palate plate, sonic dome, crowned diaphragm. Some like a single, while others like triples. Also the issue is every one applies tongue pressure differently.

I have many customers that don't like a palate plate or a dome and I also have many customers who feel they need it. Pallete size is important in selecting the right size of frame. I can make my calls on a youth frame or an adult small (not very small). I'm also in the process of having my own custom sized frame built that should work for 95% of callers while providing an easier to use all around call.

The majority of my calls are built as single reeds. The pitch is easier to control and the call is predictable. With that said I do offer a few double reeds,a 2.5 reed and a triple reed . I also build cow only, bull only, all around and locator specific diaphragms. I can also work with you to build custom calls specifically to your liking.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: TheHunt on May 26, 2013, 08:00:09 PM: Something to consider on the external mouth piece bugle tubes. It is hard to chuckle and sputter bugle which will sound like the real deal.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on May 26, 2013, 08:12:22 PM: I cannot speak for everyone, but I think you would be better off learning to cow call first leave the bugle at home, in my experience they chase off more elk than they call in. I would be interested in your youth diaphragms Jason my wife cannot seem to find a good fit in mouth reeds since they are all too big for her mouth I will have to check out your site.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: dkecoleman on May 26, 2013, 08:46:28 PM: Quote from: SemperFidelis97 on May 26, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
I cannot speak for everyone, but I think you would be better off learning to cow call first leave the bugle at home, in my experience they chase off more elk than they call in.

I have been playing with a cow call for a little bit now, starting to get the hang of it. Yeah, I'm a little skeptical about using a tube, I would like to learn to do a locator call. I believe that could be extremely useful. Just from the research I've done, (and I don't know much) It seems like a lot of guys make the mistake of bugling too far away from the herd bull, so he rounds up the ladies and heads out.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on May 26, 2013, 09:18:30 PM: The hard part if you are hunting locally is knowing if you are around elk at all let alone the herd bull its so damn thick. I hunt around my place up the hill here from you, and I have found it best to just get into a place in the morning darkness let things settle than do soft cow calling sequences every 5 minutes, or so. I have had pretty good luck getting allot of bulls to come in which doesn't necessarily mean a kill with a bow, but I do get to see allot of them. I do hunt all private land though, and I am just speaking about local experience things may be allot different wherever you decide to hunt.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: LBES on May 27, 2013, 10:01:50 AM: :yeah: not to get too off topic, but cow calling has given me the most success... I carry a handful of Wayne Carlton's fighting cow call; it's super loud so you can get some distance on it. And then I use a Primo call (IMAKDABull Crazy) for the closer up stuff... and i ALWAYS have a reed in my mouth. A reed in the mouth should be mandatory!!! it's the best insurance you could have. Also good to have a couple different brands of cow calls so you can project the sound in different directions - sounds like a few different elk talking to each other. Remember too, it's usually the cows that will pull the bull away.

Depending on the area you hunt, and the pressure it sees, the elk may just not bugle - but he'll come in quietly for investigation... In 2008 I called in a couple young bulls using only cow calls, didn't even know they were in the area. Except, I "thought" I heard a twig snap about 100 yeards off... so I blew one more cow call and waited. 15 minutes later I had 2 elk less than 15 yards from me; one is now hanging on my wall... In 2010 I had the SAME thing happen, called in 2 young bulls on the estrus call, but then I did get a 3rd bull to let off some chuckles. That was the last of the vocalizations from the 3rd bull, but he came in to 20 yards - and yes he's hanging on the wall... no bugles in either scenario.

Bottom line, I see a lot of hunters, new and experienced, leave a setup too early just because they're not getting vocalization... the elk are wise to the game - guys are educating them all summer bugling from the truck every time they see one.

Also, I've found that pressured elk tend to call back more when you are further away... So I'll use the bugle to call into big drainages or valleys to see if something sticks its head out or call back. I had one scenario where I had two elk bugling back from different areas in a valley right before dark... So, I knew where I was hunting in the morning!!! When I got in there in the morning, I positioned myself, played the wind, and gave those elk everything I had in terms of calls - couldn't get anything to respond or come in. After about an hour, I went 40 yards through some noisy brush to look into where I "thought" the elk were from the night prior. As soon as I popped my head through, a bull and a dozen cows looked at me and ran off!!!! They were sitting there the whole time!!!! and that bull didn't care less.

Anyhow, just my perspective... hope it helps! Good luck.
Title: Re: Elk Calls
Post by: dkecoleman on May 27, 2013, 10:30:13 AM: Thanks for all the replies so far, seems to validate most of what I have read or heard. I don't expect to learn everything, just the basics so I have some idea of what I'm doing, and try not to sound like an idiot out there.

I have been invited to hunt with a couple of guys I know. Don't know much about the area yet, waiting for the snow to melt, so we can get in there and hang some cams. They have hunted the area for a few years. They say they have been in the elk every year, just haven't made it happen yet. Neither one of them call. Apparently there is not that much hunting pressure, they said one other camp fairly close by.