Post by: Dbax129 on June 01, 2013, 09:50:52 AM
6/16/2004 9:57:00 AM
County judge finds bear-baiting initiative unconstitutional
By Luke George
Leader Staff Writer
A Jefferson County District Court judge dismissed violations of a state bear-baiting law, marking the first time in the law's eight-year existence it has been overturned.
"It's a fair hunt principle; baiting isn't fair play," said Craig Bartlett, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife public information officer. "The [court] decision will make enforcing the law more difficult in Jefferson County."
Judge Pro Tem Karen Gates Hildt found Initiative 655 unconstitutional in Jefferson County District Court on June 7 and dismissed three cases against hunters who were charged with using bait to attract and kill black bear.
WDFW officers investigated a hunting camp near Forks in West Jefferson County on Aug. 2, 2003, at the beginning of the bear-hunting season. The 12 hunters were allegedly attracting the bear with scent on their clothing and threw bread and honey on the ground. They hunted on foot and in tree stands with the bait below, according to court documents.
Three of the hunters were formally charged with a gross misdemeanor, but their cases were dismissed by Judge Hildt. Thomas Durham, owner of Sport Shack in Olympia and one of the three hunters, wrote that he had been baiting black bear for years and continued to do so after it became illegal, according to a handwritten statement to WDFW enforcement on Aug. 2, 2003.
The statewide voter-approved initiative passed in 1996. It restricts both black-bear hunting with bait, and using dogs to hunt black bear, cougar, bobcat or lynx. In 1997 the Thurston County Superior Court challenged the constitutionality of the just-passed law and upheld it in regard to the two subjects of baiting and hunting with dogs.
On one hand, the Washington State Constitution states "no bill shall embrace more than one subject." On the other, "using any bait to attract a bear to kill it, is illegal," WDFW's Bartlett said. "The bear-baiting law is still in effect, and it is our job to enforce the law in at least 38 counties."
WDFW investigates six to 12 cases of bear-baiting each year on the Olympic Peninsula. Only one or two cases per year are prosecuted statewide, according to the WDFW.
When the cases of hunters Thomas Durham, Craig Stevenson and Christina Stannard came to Jefferson County District Court, each of their defense lawyers filed affidavits of prejudice against Judge Mark Huth. According to court records, none of the defendants has been tried in Jefferson County. When Judge Huth is either asked to recuse himself or is unavailable to hear a case, Judge Hildt automatically takes the case, according to court procedures. Hildt then heard the hunting cases in a non-jury trial.
Port Townsend attorney Chuck Henry represented Durham. "It was a tactical decision I don't care to discuss," Henry said of the effort to have Judge Huth not hear the cases.
Defense attorney John Stanislay of Tumwater, representing Stevenson and Stannard, wouldn't comment on the affidavit of prejudice either. Stanislay did state that the initiative is restrictive in nature and must contain only one subject to be constitutional in Washington. Otherwise it violates the 14th amendment of due process and fair notice.
"Judge Hildt did an excellent job analyzing the law and making a decision," Stanislay said June 14.
"The two [initiative] subjects don't have to do with the same thing," Henry noted. "You can't tell which subject the public intended to enact" – restrictions against baiting or restrictions against hunting with dogs.
Contacted Monday, Judge Hildt and Durham both declined comment.
http://www.ptleader.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=55&ArticleID=9788 (http://www.ptleader.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=55&ArticleID=9788)
Post by: gasman on June 01, 2013, 11:43:32 AM
its old and nothing has been done, :dunno:
Post by: norsepeak on June 01, 2013, 11:48:03 AM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on June 01, 2013, 12:58:46 PM
Post by: Mike450r on June 01, 2013, 01:11:37 PM
They got their case thrown out. The state didn't take it on because if they lose on appeal it becomes case law and baiting would once again be allowed.
The stance at that time was to pretty much allow it in Jefferson county since they knew what the outcome would be in Jefferson County court.
Post by: bobcat on June 01, 2013, 01:15:50 PM
Quote
"It's a fair hunt principle; baiting isn't fair play," said Craig Bartlett, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife public information officer.
I don't like that this WDFW employee stating his opinion as if it's a fact. :rolleyes:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 01, 2013, 01:39:45 PM
Do you really think that the law would continue to appear in the regs and to be enforced for ten years if it was found unconstitutional :bash:
http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=A08&casenumber=757798&searchtype=aName&token=782EA4B8FD2C2BFDFF20E58EC8F9EC9C&dt=4B1A67DC2CCEE8C800F8CC051CDF283A&courtClassCode=A&casekey=12668724&courtname=Supreme (http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=A08&casenumber=757798&searchtype=aName&token=782EA4B8FD2C2BFDFF20E58EC8F9EC9C&dt=4B1A67DC2CCEE8C800F8CC051CDF283A&courtClassCode=A&casekey=12668724&courtname=Supreme) Court
Post by: bobcat on June 01, 2013, 01:44:06 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 01, 2013, 01:48:29 PM
Grays Harbor Court system is a little less accessable by the internet by members of the general public than say King County.
Post by: oldschooltrucks on June 01, 2013, 08:14:52 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 01, 2013, 08:16:32 PM
Post by: oldschooltrucks on June 01, 2013, 08:30:45 PM
Well, because the voters of this state didn't vote to make baiting deer illegal. But I'm sure they would if given the chance.
They probably would given the chance. Being from the Midwest, I don't agree with a lot of this states attempt to rob us hunters in hunting fees and hunting violations in the 150 page regs book.
Post by: steeleywhopper on June 03, 2013, 12:30:47 PM
Post by: deaner on June 03, 2013, 12:34:36 PM
Well, because the voters of this state didn't vote to make baiting deer illegal. But I'm sure they would if given the chance.i have word from a reputable source that banning baiting for deer / elk is in the works and should come into place in next couple years. seems that part of the reason is that there are outfitters who will literally dump truckloads of apples to bait deer into their leases, and the animals move off public land nearby the bait site and just hang out on the lease land.
Post by: DoubleJ on June 03, 2013, 12:43:03 PM
Or they have a current food plot with clover and sugar beets. The hunter stops tending to the plots since baiting is illegal. Is that still baiting since it was put there years prior to attract deer or is it considered part of the natural environment?
What about hunting in an alfalfa field?
Seems hard to prosecute effectively.
Post by: deaner on June 03, 2013, 12:48:24 PM
So, a deer hunter plants an apple tree and dumps a bunch of apples under it and claims they fell off the tree and are natural.trees and food plots are not baiting. hell you can plant a ton of apple trees and shoot bears that come into them, thats fine, but if you kick the apples from the ground ten feet over to be in line with a treestand, now youre baiting. you can plant alfalfa to hunt deer over even if they make baiting deer illegal, but if you bail it and move the bail at all, baiting.
Or they have a current food plot with clover and sugar beets. The hunter stops tending to the plots since baiting is illegal. Is that still baiting since it was put there years prior to attract deer or is it considered part of the natural environment?
What about hunting in an alfalfa field?
Seems hard to prosecute effectively.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on June 03, 2013, 03:39:48 PM
I hunt near private lands that are outfitted and I find plenty of big bucks living on the public lands surrounding it.Well, because the voters of this state didn't vote to make baiting deer illegal. But I'm sure they would if given the chance.i have word from a reputable source that banning baiting for deer / elk is in the works and should come into place in next couple years. seems that part of the reason is that there are outfitters who will literally dump truckloads of apples to bait deer into their leases, and the animals move off public land nearby the bait site and just hang out on the lease land.
Post by: Special T on June 03, 2013, 04:09:30 PM
Post by: deaner on June 03, 2013, 04:12:59 PM
i dont doubt that at all. but thats one of the "reasons" ive heard, is that there are complaints about that. not saying its my argument or point of view.I hunt near private lands that are outfitted and I find plenty of big bucks living on the public lands surrounding it.Well, because the voters of this state didn't vote to make baiting deer illegal. But I'm sure they would if given the chance.i have word from a reputable source that banning baiting for deer / elk is in the works and should come into place in next couple years. seems that part of the reason is that there are outfitters who will literally dump truckloads of apples to bait deer into their leases, and the animals move off public land nearby the bait site and just hang out on the lease land.
Post by: deaner on June 03, 2013, 04:14:51 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on June 03, 2013, 06:31:52 PM
dbhawthorne pms are down, anywhere i can have a short chat with you regarding handguns without jacking this thread?
daniel.hawthorne at ymail.com
Post by: deaner on June 03, 2013, 06:56:48 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on June 03, 2013, 08:45:03 PM
Well, because the voters of this state didn't vote to make baiting deer illegal. But I'm sure they would if given the chance.i have word from a reputable source that banning baiting for deer / elk is in the works and should come into place in next couple years. seems that part of the reason is that there are outfitters who will literally dump truckloads of apples to bait deer into their leases, and the animals move off public land nearby the bait site and just hang out on the lease land.
While I don't have an issue with a guy dumping a bucket of apples on the ground or hunting around apple tree I do have a problem with truck loads of apples. This is bad for both deer and elk. Many of the animals that are baited by these large amounts are likely dying of in the brush somewhere. Below is a good link to problems that could be caused by the method some are using in Washington.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26508--,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26508--,00.html)
Post by: huntnnw on June 03, 2013, 09:52:50 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on June 03, 2013, 10:19:14 PM
Post by: oldschooltrucks on June 04, 2013, 05:59:22 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 04, 2013, 08:02:50 AM
oh geez...not again..no they dont..maybe if someone dumped them when they were in a starvation mode
You know as well as I do that every deer within 50 miles will live at any bait pile 24/7 and gorge on apples and corn until they die... that's why when hunting with bait you.don't even need to use a gun or bow... just pick out your favorite dead deer from around the bait since they are all dead from the bait! :dunno: :bash:
Post by: h20hunter on June 05, 2013, 08:42:47 AM
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2013, 08:49:07 AM
Post by: h20hunter on June 05, 2013, 08:56:26 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 05, 2013, 09:29:26 AM
I did.....I thought there could be something to it...maybe the apples were introduced in the middle of winter or something....wasn't trying to call anyone out...just thought I was missing something (other than the sarcasm). Personlly I very much enjoy eating apple fed deer....delicious!:P there wasn't a serious word in my post. Lol.
I haven't ever seen a deer stay at a bait long enough to over eat anything. Deer are naturally browsers and will eat everywhere they go.
I really like apple and wet cob flavored deer too!
Now back to topic! I do like to bait bears also! It is a hoot! And I get to eat all the pastrys and donuts and pies I can stand!
Post by: Jonathan_S on June 05, 2013, 09:40:48 AM
Mature deer almost never spend more than a few minutes at a bait site. :twocents:
A pile of apples and corn will be browsed but never commited to for longer than several bites.
This is my experience throughout the year with trail cameras and personal observation.