Post by: wolfbait on July 28, 2013, 10:44:43 AM
Larry Richter at the Golden Doe had a calf killed a month ago by wolves, WDFW investigated, then refuse to go public as a confirmed livestock kill by wolves, but they are going to pay for the calf.
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WDFW do quite well at hiding the impact of their wolves, how long before hunters realize the game herds are in a predator pit?
Post by: turkeyfeather on July 28, 2013, 10:49:39 AM
Post by: wolfbait on July 29, 2013, 07:29:10 AM
http://mtnchronicle.blogspot.com/2013/02/are-northern-rockies-in-predator-pit.html (http://mtnchronicle.blogspot.com/2013/02/are-northern-rockies-in-predator-pit.html)
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on July 29, 2013, 07:45:59 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on July 29, 2013, 09:39:46 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 04, 2013, 11:27:46 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 04, 2013, 11:32:41 AM
Are The Northern Rockies In A Predator Pit?
http://mtnchronicle.blogspot.com/2013/02/are-northern-rockies-in-predator-pit.html (http://mtnchronicle.blogspot.com/2013/02/are-northern-rockies-in-predator-pit.html)
good story, here's just the first few paragraphs...
Just what is a "Predator Pit"?
Wolf researchers have come to use the term when referring to an area where predators have pulled prey populations down so low that recovery of those populations is impossible, unless there is a drastic reduction in the number of predators. The situation results from how predators affect prey numbers in two different ways. One is the manner in which predators, especially wolves, kill far more adult prey animals than needed to survive, commonly referred to as "surplus killing". The second is the destruction of the prey age class, due to the loss of newborn young of the year.
The loss of that recruitment can be either due to outright killing of fawns and calves in the spring (with excessive surplus killing), or due to the stress predators (especially wolves) place on pregnant females in winter, causing them to abort their fetuses. In the classic predator pit situation, a rising number of predators results in a constant decline in prey numbers, with the average age of surviving prey animals becoming older and older with each passing year - to the point that reproductive growth becomes impossible and the prey base begins to die off from old age.
This accurately describes the situation in much of the Northern Rocky Mountains of Montana, Idaho and Wyoming today.
Through the 1970s and 1980s, populations of elk, moose and other big game had recovered well from the record lows of the early 1900s, and by the mid 1990s many areas of the Northern Rockies boasted record wildlife populations. And through all of that recovery from the market hunting era of the late 1800s, there were still viable populations of mountain lions, black bear, and in some areas even a few grizzlies. The only missing predator was the wolf. America's sportsmen had poured billions of dollars into modern conservation projects, many of which took decades to accomplish, and they had been rewarded with an abundance of game. So much so, that during the 1980s and 1990s many joked that "The Good Ol' Days Are Now!".
Now, they know there was more to that feeling than anyone at that time could have realized.
Post by: stocmamu on August 04, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/about/wildlife_weekly/2013/wildlife_weekly_2013jul22.pdf (http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/about/wildlife_weekly/2013/wildlife_weekly_2013jul22.pdf)
Post by: bobcat on August 04, 2013, 12:29:06 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on August 04, 2013, 12:34:41 PM
Why is it necessary for the WDFW to make a public announcement every time a wolf kills a domestic animal? I don't get it. Do we really need to hear these things in the news every day? It's going to happen. Everyone knows it. It sucks, yes. But I just feel there must be better things to complain about. :dunno:
How else is the public supposed to see the effects of wolves? Yes we, hunters, know its going to happen but most people have no idea. A little concrete information can go a long ways for managing wolves, or we can just sweep it under the carpet so no one knows..........
Post by: bobcat on August 04, 2013, 12:40:52 PM
That's all I'm trying to say. It gets old seeing the WDFW getting blamed for every little thing. They didn't put the wolves here. You want to blame someone? Blame the federal government.
Post by: ribka on August 04, 2013, 12:51:16 PM
That's fine, and I agree. However I don't feel it's the WDFW's responsibility to make sure every instance is published in the newspapers. It's just not their job.
That's all I'm trying to say. It gets old seeing the WDFW getting blamed for every little thing. They didn't put the wolves here. You want to blame someone? Blame the federal government.
as a tax payer I would like to know how my hard earned money is spent. In this case the state uses my money and your money to monitor wolves, pay ranchers for losses, pay salaries of WDFW to respond to wolf kills etc etc. money well spent as a sportsman to know how much damage Canadian wolves are causing and where they are killing animals. I grouse hunt that area with my dog and would like to know wolves' Active areas and if I should bring buck shot to shoot aggressive big coyotes if they try and kill my dog.
Post by: bobcat on August 04, 2013, 12:54:32 PM
Post by: JLS on August 04, 2013, 01:03:07 PM
That's fine, and I agree. However I don't feel it's the WDFW's responsibility to make sure every instance is published in the newspapers. It's just not their job.
That's all I'm trying to say. It gets old seeing the WDFW getting blamed for every little thing. They didn't put the wolves here. You want to blame someone? Blame the federal government.
as a tax payer I would like to know how my hard earned money is spent. In this case the state uses my money and your money to monitor wolves, pay ranchers for losses, pay salaries of WDFW to respond to wolf kills etc etc. money well spent as a sportsman to know how much damage Canadian wolves are causing and where they are killing animals. I grouse hunt that area with my dog and would like to know wolves' Active areas and if I should bring buck shot to shoot aggressive big coyotes if they try and kill my dog.
File a Public Disclosure Request and you can get all of the information you want. Except maybe the mileage for the UPS truck.
Post by: ribka on August 04, 2013, 01:34:51 PM
last time I filed a FOIA request it took over a year to receive info. this was after multiple requests .
About 30 per cent was blacked out. so much for open Govt and transparency
A monthly update is nice to have from WDFW. If I bird hunt with dogs or had small children and went hiking or camping in active wolf areas would be nice to know.
For years WDFW denied there were wolves up in the Blewit Pass area while my neighbor would horseback ride and see them every time she rode up there and would report to WDFW.
Would be nice to be able to trust at least some of the info coming from WDFW in regards to wolves. So far they have proven to have an unreliable track record when it comes to their information. Some might even label them as outright liars.
That's fine, and I agree. However I don't feel it's the WDFW's responsibility to make sure every instance is published in the newspapers. It's just not their job.
That's all I'm trying to say. It gets old seeing the WDFW getting blamed for every little thing. They didn't put the wolves here. You want to blame someone? Blame the federal government.
as a tax payer I would like to know how my hard earned money is spent. In this case the state uses my money and your money to monitor wolves, pay ranchers for losses, pay salaries of WDFW to respond to wolf kills etc etc. money well spent as a sportsman to know how much damage Canadian wolves are causing and where they are killing animals. I grouse hunt that area with my dog and would like to know wolves' Active areas and if I should bring buck shot to shoot aggressive big coyotes if they try and kill my dog.
File a Public Disclosure Request and you can get all of the information you want. Except maybe the mileage for the UPS truck.
Post by: JLS on August 04, 2013, 03:44:45 PM
Post by: buckfvr on August 04, 2013, 04:18:45 PM
That's fine, and I agree. However I don't feel it's the WDFW's responsibility to make sure every instance is published in the newspapers. It's just not their job.
That's all I'm trying to say. It gets old seeing the WDFW getting blamed for every little thing. They didn't put the wolves here. You want to blame someone? Blame the federal government.
WDFW has not been forthcoming with wolf information, not timely, not accurately.......they have lied and been misleading for years. They continue to deceive the public, earning their share of the blame.......blame them ?????? Hell yes.
They do have the option of coming clean on all this so we can get to the managing of this issue, however, they will lie forever............
Post by: bobcat on August 04, 2013, 04:37:29 PM
Wait. Don't we already know all that stuff? Some of it is nothing more than common sense. And the rest of it did come from the WDFW.
Why do we want a government agency to waste their time and our money telling us stuff that we already know?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 04, 2013, 05:21:16 PM
Post by: ribka on August 04, 2013, 05:34:35 PM
If wolves killed pets or live stock in Pierce or King County am guessing it would be treated much differently.
F or now the wolves are only affecting the east side red necks And evil ranchers who homesteaded on the N Canadian wolves' historical territory.
typical NIMBY syndrome
What is it that you'd want them to be forthcoming about? That wolves are here, they're increasing in number, they eat deer, elk, livestock, and people's pets, and there's no way to control their numbers?
Wait. Don't we already know all that stuff? Some of it is nothing more than common sense. And the rest of it did come from the WDFW.
Why do we want a government agency to waste their time and our money telling us stuff that we already know?
Post by: dingle on August 05, 2013, 10:04:06 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 05, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
So, reading all of these comments about the wolf in our state. One person is saying roll over and take it laying down and others want to be pro active and keep our wdfw in check. The wet side has voting mass so if you don't keep them informed about all that is happening nothing happens about managing the wolf. I have experanced first hand WDFW and what they intentionally forget to tell you, They had been pating for wolf kills up out of the loop loop pass area for years, oh did I forget to say wolf's have been in that area since 1986, we seen one back then and after that too. There is one problem with all of this unless WDFW see's the wolf personly it didn't exist. I will say the games on the ground I have had good dealing with most them.
"There is one problem with all of this unless WDFW see's the wolf personly it didn't exist."
WDFW know where their wolves are, they recieve many wolf complaints every day, which they then ignore, talk to the people of the Okanogan!
Here's and example, This spring I talk to a lady at the Chronicle who told me they have been having trouble with wolves going through their yard on a regular basis, they call WDFW and are ignored. Another guy I talk to last week said the they are seeing wolves in the Omak Flats area, WDFW are ignoring those reports also. He also told me that most of the Okanogan county is turning into a shoot-on-sight county.
Take the Methow Valley, WDFW and the USFWS both have been caught bald face lying about the Golden Doe cow and calf, and in 2009 that cow and calf were not the only livestock killed by wolves. In 2008 the owner of the Golden Doe lost a mule to wolves in the same area, but because he was in a deal with WDFW to sell them land he said nothing.
Last year Bernard Therlow lost one calf to wolves and had a couple of others chewed up, Bernard saw the wolves on his calf,, WDF&wolves still failed to call it a confirmed wolf kill.
There have been several other livestock killings by wolves, in the Methow, but just like other states unless you have a picture of the wolf killing the cow or calf, WDFW will not confirm.
Remember the calf this spring, that should have been a confirmed wolf kill, WDFW refuse to even call the owner of the calf with their findings. The frauds at WDF&Wolves are WA's main wolf problem. I wonder if Anderson already has a job lined up with Defenders of Wildlife when the chit hits the fan?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 06, 2013, 07:09:55 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 06, 2013, 10:49:15 AM
How were they "caught" in a bald faced lie, and by whom? Cows often die while calving... you've posted the picture a hundred times, but it doesn't show anything. So, who caught the WDFW in a lie? You? The Rancher?
You must be on a roll W-C :chuckle: I will explain it to you tonight, I would apreciate it if you would copy and paste the info. somewhere in your vast knowgedge of wolf info documentation, so I don't have to go over it with you again> maybe send a copy to Fitkin so that next time, he deletes all the pictures that are incriminating. :chuckle:
Post by: Dhoey07 on August 06, 2013, 11:20:26 AM
What is it that you'd want them to be forthcoming about? That wolves are here, they're increasing in number, they eat deer, elk, livestock, and people's pets, and there's no way to control their numbers?
Wait. Don't we already know all that stuff? Some of it is nothing more than common sense. And the rest of it did come from the WDFW.
Why do we want a government agency to waste their time and our money telling us stuff that we already know?
Knowing is one thing, WDFW saying/admitting it is another :twocents:
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 06, 2013, 12:55:08 PM
Just answer the question. I don't need a riddle. Just an answer. Who caught them in a "bald faced lie"?How were they "caught" in a bald faced lie, and by whom? Cows often die while calving... you've posted the picture a hundred times, but it doesn't show anything. So, who caught the WDFW in a lie? You? The Rancher?
You must be on a roll W-C :chuckle: I will explain it to you tonight, I would apreciate it if you would copy and paste the info. somewhere in your vast knowgedge of wolf info documentation, so I don't have to go over it with you again> maybe send a copy to Fitkin so that next time, he deletes all the pictures that are incriminating. :chuckle:
Post by: woodswalker on August 06, 2013, 01:11:01 PM
What is it that you'd want them to be forthcoming about? That wolves are here, they're increasing in number, they eat deer, elk, livestock, and people's pets, and there's no way to control their numbers?
Wait. Don't we already know all that stuff? Some of it is nothing more than common sense. And the rest of it did come from the WDFW.
Why do we want a government agency to waste their time and our money telling us stuff that we already know?
Except that it is NOT common sense in the concrete canyons and the vast parks of Pugetopolis...Where wolves are FUN CUDDLEY DISNEY animals who would NEVER HURT ANOTHER ANIMAL...unless its old or sick or weak...or young or outnumbered or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.....
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: bearpaw on August 06, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
WDFW in their latest weekly wildlife report did report a predation in the Wedge area.
http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/about/wildlife_weekly/2013/wildlife_weekly_2013jul22.pdf (http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/about/wildlife_weekly/2013/wildlife_weekly_2013jul22.pdf)
Thanks... glad to see! :tup:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 06, 2013, 06:00:03 PM
What is it that you'd want them to be forthcoming about? That wolves are here, they're increasing in number, they eat deer, elk, livestock, and people's pets, and there's no way to control their numbers?
Wait. Don't we already know all that stuff? Some of it is nothing more than common sense. And the rest of it did come from the WDFW.
Why do we want a government agency to waste their time and our money telling us stuff that we already know?
Yes, but it is the NO common sense, Disney bunch in pugetropolis that needs to hear this over and over all the time to see if a shread of useful grey matter is left in them that they might see the dim light at the end of the libbie tunnel. If it's just "We", we're screwed. We need the other common sense outdoor enthusiasts as much as possible.
Post by: Kain on August 06, 2013, 08:35:45 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/dangerous/reports/index.php?species=3&county=&year=2013 (http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/dangerous/reports/index.php?species=3&county=&year=2013)
Post by: stevemiller on August 06, 2013, 08:48:09 PM
They are required by state law to post reports online. If you guys know of instances that do not make it on the list you really need to bring it to their attention and to your state rep.Exactly :tup: and on another note it isnt a lot of gov. jobs to report everything so why should we stand by and let them report all the anti hunter tree hugger stuff and not report our side of the story.Wolves are destroying the herds and this is just one way to educate them on what is really going on.I had an anti the other day ribbing me about why i hunt bears why would anyone hunt bears,so i said well i hunt male bears they eat little bears if we dont hunt older male bears none of the cute cuddly baby bears would live.why do male bears eat cubs she said.i said to kill the cubs is to have the oportunity to breed again(bears with cubs dont breed) she said well that sucks i guess i didnt know about that good luck on your hunt.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/dangerous/reports/index.php?species=3&county=&year=2013 (http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/dangerous/reports/index.php?species=3&county=&year=2013)
Post by: Kain on August 06, 2013, 08:57:39 PM
1-877-933-9847
Post by: stevemiller on August 06, 2013, 09:15:55 PM
Post by: Special T on August 11, 2013, 08:19:10 PM