Post by: AspenBud on August 13, 2013, 09:18:49 AM
This stuff is exactly what the anti wolf hunting crowd fears will happen, and the Russians have affirmed that belief with stuff like this.
This is the uphill battle to be fought.
Отчаянный волк (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0WjiBArK50#)
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 13, 2013, 09:33:46 AM
Post by: AspenBud on August 13, 2013, 09:40:01 AM
The thing I'm not sure of is how to reassure the public. People don't care where these things are done, it pulls on their heart strings and leads them to generalize.
Sorry, it just ticked me off. When my own sense of hunting ethics gets riled by something like that i can only imagine what it does when someone who doesn't hunt sees it.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 13, 2013, 09:43:37 AM
Post by: snowpack on August 13, 2013, 10:33:45 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 13, 2013, 09:03:39 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 13, 2013, 09:17:00 PM
Yep- its a pretty messed up video. Just dispatch the damn thing already. I don't know what was up with that wolf as far as an injury, but the video is disgusting. I surely hope it would not be like that in the US.
aporkapocalypse airs here pretty soon, I don't see much difference.
The trailer has Ted Nugent gunning hogs out of a chopper
Post by: bearpaw on August 13, 2013, 09:22:31 PM
1. The death that wolf suffered was probably quicker than the death he dealt out to animals that slowly died while being eaten alive or left to die after the wolf had a full belly.
2. In Asia wolves are over-populated, children have been killed, villages have suffered the ravages of overpopulated wolves. The people hate wolves and theses guys are probably local heroes.
3. The video was in Russia, probably legal there, not legal in the United States. Apples and Oranges.
I don't see this as much of a relevant issue really, however as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
Post by: KFhunter on August 13, 2013, 09:25:25 PM
Not that I agree with the film, but you have to put things in perspective.
1. The death that wolf suffered was probably quicker than the death he dealt out to animals that slowly died while being eaten alive or left to die after the wolf had a full belly.
2. In Asia wolves are over-populated, children have been killed, villages have suffered the ravages of overpopulated wolves. The people hate wolves and theses guys are probably local heroes.
3. The video was in Russia, probably legal there, not legal in the United States. Apples and Oranges.
I don't see this as much of a relevant issue really, however as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
Well said.
Eventually it'll be like killing hogs in the south, just get em dead no matter the means. We're getting there in some states already.
Post by: Maligator on August 13, 2013, 09:26:22 PM
Post by: Widgeondeke on August 13, 2013, 10:00:40 PM
As stated by poachers caught by WDFW recently, its how we did it in (insert country).
Our natural resources: mainly sturgeon and other fish are being decimated by poachers that are trafficking them internationally.
I'm in no way saying all people are bad. Just that the bad ones are prolific at what they do. The penalties need to be stiffer. 20 days in jail and $1000 doesn't deter career criminals.
Post by: AspenBud on August 14, 2013, 07:00:49 AM
Yep- its a pretty messed up video. Just dispatch the damn thing already. I don't know what was up with that wolf as far as an injury, but the video is disgusting. I surely hope it would not be like that in the US.
aporkapocalypse airs here pretty soon, I don't see much difference.
The trailer has Ted Nugent gunning hogs out of a chopper
Nugent also got busted for poaching a bear in Alaska a year or two ago.
Nothing surprises me about that guy.
Post by: seth30 on August 14, 2013, 07:10:41 AM
Post by: Axle on August 14, 2013, 07:36:40 AM
And I agree with Bearpaw.
Post by: buckfvr on August 14, 2013, 07:43:05 AM
Post by: AspenBud on August 14, 2013, 09:09:12 AM
The reason they didn't shoot it again was to keep from adding holes in the pelt which would devalue the pelt. I'm sure those guys are fairly conservative when it comes to wasting money. Trappers know the value of a clean hide.
Trapping involves wounding an animal with a gun and chasing it down with a truck?
If you're concerned about the pelt, blowing apart an animal like that and then letting it run for nearly 5 minutes isn't a good way to preserve it. If the animal was actually trapped, and it wasn't in that video, a shot to the head or a long handled club to the head would do the job.
Post by: AspenBud on August 14, 2013, 09:30:41 AM
as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
True. One of the justifications for allowing a wolf hunt in parts of the Midwest that I've seen from wildlife biologists out there is it will help people get over their fear of them and give them a sense of the control over the situation.
The problem here as I see it is let's be honest, they were never wanted in areas where livestock roam and a lot of hunters didn't want them either. The moment one wolf walked into/was released/or whatever anyone wants to believe the state people wanted a season on them. No bio in this state was going to agree with that and I have a gut feeling that the general attitude west of the mountains at WDFW is one of "oh those people, they have been crying wolf and wanting to shoot them since before they were released. Ignore them." Because of that you now have a perfect storm.
Post by: bearpaw on August 14, 2013, 02:07:37 PM
as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
True. One of the justifications for allowing a wolf hunt in parts of the Midwest that I've seen from wildlife biologists out there is it will help people get over their fear of them and give them a sense of the control over the situation.
The problem here as I see it is let's be honest, they were never wanted in areas where livestock roam and a lot of hunters didn't want them either. The moment one wolf walked into/was released/or whatever anyone wants to believe the state people wanted a season on them. No bio in this state was going to agree with that and I have a gut feeling that the general attitude west of the mountains at WDFW is one of "oh those people, they have been crying wolf and wanting to shoot them since before they were released. Ignore them." Because of that you now have a perfect storm.
Of course they weren't wanted because everyone knew exactly what would happen and now it's been proven true by the agencies, a lack of management. I think people in rural areas would put up with a reasonable number of wolves mostly in remote areas that don't impact livestock growers or decimate game herds. The WDFW seems to have taken a position that wolves are more important than other wildlife, that rural Washington is stuck with however many wolves can breed, game herd reductions and livestock depredation seem to be of little importance to WDFW, and NE WA is stuck with whatever happens due to these rapidly expanding wolf packs.
To add insult to injury, WDFW shows up in Colville with a rehearsed generic message that stunk, they had no answers for the hard questions about how they were going to deal with the expanding wolf population in NE WA nor did they answer the question I posed asking about future hunter opportunity with the increased predation on herds. WDFW seemed to expect local people to fall in line like a bunch of uneducated subjects of the state. Until WDFW realizes they work for all people (not just Conservation Northwest) and that they should manage all wildlife equally (not just potect wolves), I doubt they will get much public support in NE Washington.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 14, 2013, 02:16:38 PM
as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
True. One of the justifications for allowing a wolf hunt in parts of the Midwest that I've seen from wildlife biologists out there is it will help people get over their fear of them and give them a sense of the control over the situation.
The problem here as I see it is let's be honest, they were never wanted in areas where livestock roam and a lot of hunters didn't want them either. The moment one wolf walked into/was released/or whatever anyone wants to believe the state people wanted a season on them. No bio in this state was going to agree with that and I have a gut feeling that the general attitude west of the mountains at WDFW is one of "oh those people, they have been crying wolf and wanting to shoot them since before they were released. Ignore them." Because of that you now have a perfect storm.
Of course they weren't wanted because everyone knew exactly what would happen and now it's been proven true by the agencies, a lack of management. I think people in rural areas would put up with a reasonable number of wolves mostly in remote areas that don't impact livestock growers or decimate game herds. The WDFW seems to have taken a position that wolves are more important than other wildlife, that rural Washington is stuck with however many wolves can breed, game herd reductions and livestock depredation seem to be of little importance to WDFW, and NE WA is stuck with whatever happens due to these rapidly expanding wolf packs.
To add insult to injury, WDFW shows up in Colville with a rehearsed generic message that stunk, they had no answers for the hard questions about how they were going to deal with the expanding wolf population in NE WA nor did they answer the question I posed asking about future hunter opportunity with the increased predation on herds. WDFW seemed to expect local people to fall in line like a bunch of uneducated subjects of the state. Until WDFW realizes they work for all people (not just Conservation Northwest) and that they should manage all wildlife equally (not just potect wolves), I doubt they will get much public support in NE Washington.
It's not a question of management or of science. It's completely political and the governor, then Gregoire and now Inslee, panders to the whining Seattle/Tacoma and Olympia liberals instead of making common sense changes to the failing wolf plan. They don't care about you, Dale and all E. Washingtonians, and that is passed down from the top to the DFW, even if the DFW wanted to do something about - and they don't. The votes that keep these cretins in office don't come from the east.
Post by: bearpaw on August 14, 2013, 02:24:11 PM
Post by: BIGINNER on August 14, 2013, 02:34:25 PM
it looks like they are located in a very desolate part of the country. (possibly Siberia) and were protecting their horses. and didn't want a wounded wolf around they're property.
its always ugly to see an animal die like this, but it didn't seem like they were just out killing for sport, although they seemed really excited, (who wouldn't be).
we are used to always seeing hunting being done in a civilized way, be it for sport or for food. but when you are living in a desolate place like that, depending on the land and on your animals, killing an animal (especially a predator) can get ugly.
they definitely shouldn't have posted the video in youtube, but they are Russian hill billies who just killed a wolf!! they wanted to share their cool experience with everyone., you think they gave a rats a$$ that some Americans in their condo will have their feelings hurt about it? :chuckle:
Post by: AspenBud on August 14, 2013, 03:18:06 PM
as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
True. One of the justifications for allowing a wolf hunt in parts of the Midwest that I've seen from wildlife biologists out there is it will help people get over their fear of them and give them a sense of the control over the situation.
The problem here as I see it is let's be honest, they were never wanted in areas where livestock roam and a lot of hunters didn't want them either. The moment one wolf walked into/was released/or whatever anyone wants to believe the state people wanted a season on them. No bio in this state was going to agree with that and I have a gut feeling that the general attitude west of the mountains at WDFW is one of "oh those people, they have been crying wolf and wanting to shoot them since before they were released. Ignore them." Because of that you now have a perfect storm.
Of course they weren't wanted because everyone knew exactly what would happen and now it's been proven true by the agencies, a lack of management. I think people in rural areas would put up with a reasonable number of wolves mostly in remote areas that don't impact livestock growers or decimate game herds. The WDFW seems to have taken a position that wolves are more important than other wildlife, that rural Washington is stuck with however many wolves can breed, game herd reductions and livestock depredation seem to be of little importance to WDFW, and NE WA is stuck with whatever happens due to these rapidly expanding wolf packs.
To add insult to injury, WDFW shows up in Colville with a rehearsed generic message that stunk, they had no answers for the hard questions about how they were going to deal with the expanding wolf population in NE WA nor did they answer the question I posed asking about future hunter opportunity with the increased predation on herds. WDFW seemed to expect local people to fall in line like a bunch of uneducated subjects of the state. Until WDFW realizes they work for all people (not just Conservation Northwest) and that they should manage all wildlife equally (not just potect wolves), I doubt they will get much public support in NE Washington.
The meeting in Colville kind of confirmed what I am talking about.
Post by: AspenBud on August 14, 2013, 03:23:57 PM
as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
True. One of the justifications for allowing a wolf hunt in parts of the Midwest that I've seen from wildlife biologists out there is it will help people get over their fear of them and give them a sense of the control over the situation.
The problem here as I see it is let's be honest, they were never wanted in areas where livestock roam and a lot of hunters didn't want them either. The moment one wolf walked into/was released/or whatever anyone wants to believe the state people wanted a season on them. No bio in this state was going to agree with that and I have a gut feeling that the general attitude west of the mountains at WDFW is one of "oh those people, they have been crying wolf and wanting to shoot them since before they were released. Ignore them." Because of that you now have a perfect storm.
Of course they weren't wanted because everyone knew exactly what would happen and now it's been proven true by the agencies, a lack of management. I think people in rural areas would put up with a reasonable number of wolves mostly in remote areas that don't impact livestock growers or decimate game herds. The WDFW seems to have taken a position that wolves are more important than other wildlife, that rural Washington is stuck with however many wolves can breed, game herd reductions and livestock depredation seem to be of little importance to WDFW, and NE WA is stuck with whatever happens due to these rapidly expanding wolf packs.
To add insult to injury, WDFW shows up in Colville with a rehearsed generic message that stunk, they had no answers for the hard questions about how they were going to deal with the expanding wolf population in NE WA nor did they answer the question I posed asking about future hunter opportunity with the increased predation on herds. WDFW seemed to expect local people to fall in line like a bunch of uneducated subjects of the state. Until WDFW realizes they work for all people (not just Conservation Northwest) and that they should manage all wildlife equally (not just potect wolves), I doubt they will get much public support in NE Washington.
It's not a question of management or of science. It's completely political and the governor, then Gregoire and now Inslee, panders to the whining Seattle/Tacoma and Olympia liberals instead of making common sense changes to the failing wolf plan. They don't care about you, Dale and all E. Washingtonians, and that is passed down from the top to the DFW, even if the DFW wanted to do something about - and they don't. The votes that keep these cretins in office don't come from the east.
I'm not sure if either of the last two Republican gubernatorial candidates would have made much of a difference on the issue either. Both were from the Seattle area and both knew where the votes come from.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 14, 2013, 05:06:36 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 14, 2013, 06:07:27 PM
I disagree. McKenna is a no-nonsense kind of guy.
:yeah: McKenna would have been fair.
Post by: Axle on August 14, 2013, 07:47:05 PM
Quote
The reason they didn't shoot it again was to keep from adding holes in the pelt which would devalue the pelt. I'm sure those guys are fairly conservative when it comes to wasting money. Trappers know the value of a clean hide.
Trapping involves wounding an animal with a gun and chasing it down with a truck?
If you're concerned about the pelt, blowing apart an animal like that and then letting it run for nearly 5 minutes isn't a good way to preserve it. If the animal was actually trapped, and it wasn't in that video, a shot to the head or a long handled club to the head would do the job.
AspenBud - your response to my quote is a bit off and rude. I never said it was trapped. Go back and read my post and if you still can't figure it out, perhaps you need another course in the English language. You don't sound like a hunter to me anyway. Hunters don't use phrases like 'blowing an animal apart'. Are you an anti hunter? Sure sounds like it from your posts.
Post by: wolfbait on August 14, 2013, 09:39:38 PM
as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
True. One of the justifications for allowing a wolf hunt in parts of the Midwest that I've seen from wildlife biologists out there is it will help people get over their fear of them and give them a sense of the control over the situation.
The problem here as I see it is let's be honest, they were never wanted in areas where livestock roam and a lot of hunters didn't want them either. The moment one wolf walked into/was released/or whatever anyone wants to believe the state people wanted a season on them. No bio in this state was going to agree with that and I have a gut feeling that the general attitude west of the mountains at WDFW is one of "oh those people, they have been crying wolf and wanting to shoot them since before they were released. Ignore them." Because of that you now have a perfect storm.
Of course they weren't wanted because everyone knew exactly what would happen and now it's been proven true by the agencies, a lack of management. I think people in rural areas would put up with a reasonable number of wolves mostly in remote areas that don't impact livestock growers or decimate game herds. The WDFW seems to have taken a position that wolves are more important than other wildlife, that rural Washington is stuck with however many wolves can breed, game herd reductions and livestock depredation seem to be of little importance to WDFW, and NE WA is stuck with whatever happens due to these rapidly expanding wolf packs.
To add insult to injury, WDFW shows up in Colville with a rehearsed generic message that stunk, they had no answers for the hard questions about how they were going to deal with the expanding wolf population in NE WA nor did they answer the question I posed asking about future hunter opportunity with the increased predation on herds. WDFW seemed to expect local people to fall in line like a bunch of uneducated subjects of the state. Until WDFW realizes they work for all people (not just Conservation Northwest) and that they should manage all wildlife equally (not just potect wolves), I doubt they will get much public support in NE Washington.
See now it was Defenders of Wildlife in the 1980's an early 90's, you will notice that they aren't playing in the open right now. But Conservation NW and WDFW are running the USFWS's original wolf introduction game, and doing a fine job of it.
Taking WA county by county as they are forced to confirm wolf packs killing livestock, but only one pack in each area, where there are more then likely several.
And yet there are still hunters who believe WDFW will pull head out of azz and sniff in some fresh air.. Won't happen the USFWS-DoW-Conservation BS=WDF&wolves.
Post by: Northway on August 15, 2013, 03:22:31 PM
as long as the wolf huggers hold out on allowing management the more hate will be created in rural areas as unmanaged wolves kill livestock and game herds. The wolf lovers are now probably the wolf's worst enemy in America. :twocents:
True. One of the justifications for allowing a wolf hunt in parts of the Midwest that I've seen from wildlife biologists out there is it will help people get over their fear of them and give them a sense of the control over the situation.
The problem here as I see it is let's be honest, they were never wanted in areas where livestock roam and a lot of hunters didn't want them either. The moment one wolf walked into/was released/or whatever anyone wants to believe the state people wanted a season on them. No bio in this state was going to agree with that and I have a gut feeling that the general attitude west of the mountains at WDFW is one of "oh those people, they have been crying wolf and wanting to shoot them since before they were released. Ignore them." Because of that you now have a perfect storm.
Of course they weren't wanted because everyone knew exactly what would happen and now it's been proven true by the agencies, a lack of management. I think people in rural areas would put up with a reasonable number of wolves mostly in remote areas that don't impact livestock growers or decimate game herds. The WDFW seems to have taken a position that wolves are more important than other wildlife, that rural Washington is stuck with however many wolves can breed, game herd reductions and livestock depredation seem to be of little importance to WDFW, and NE WA is stuck with whatever happens due to these rapidly expanding wolf packs.
To add insult to injury, WDFW shows up in Colville with a rehearsed generic message that stunk, they had no answers for the hard questions about how they were going to deal with the expanding wolf population in NE WA nor did they answer the question I posed asking about future hunter opportunity with the increased predation on herds. WDFW seemed to expect local people to fall in line like a bunch of uneducated subjects of the state. Until WDFW realizes they work for all people (not just Conservation Northwest) and that they should manage all wildlife equally (not just potect wolves), I doubt they will get much public support in NE Washington.
It's not a question of management or of science. It's completely political and the governor, then Gregoire and now Inslee, panders to the whining Seattle/Tacoma and Olympia liberals instead of making common sense changes to the failing wolf plan. They don't care about you, Dale and all E. Washingtonians, and that is passed down from the top to the DFW, even if the DFW wanted to do something about - and they don't. The votes that keep these cretins in office don't come from the east.
I'm not sure if either of the last two Republican gubernatorial candidates would have made much of a difference on the issue either. Both were from the Seattle area and both knew where the votes come from.
McKenna is fairly pragmatic. He made a couple of blunders to appeal to the base that cost him, and he lacked the force of personality that would give a republican a needed bump in this state. I watch these guys campaign and it really makes me wish I could take a crack at being a campaign manager for someone.
He would have thrown stockgrowers/hunters a few bones but probably not enough to turn the issue into a firestorm back in the Puget Sound.