Post by: steen on August 18, 2013, 03:56:07 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on August 18, 2013, 04:08:34 PM
Post by: buckfvr on August 18, 2013, 04:32:40 PM
Post by: 3nails on August 18, 2013, 04:37:01 PM
Post by: westside bull on August 18, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
Post by: steen on August 18, 2013, 05:26:56 PM
Why do people even report this stuff just do away with the big over grown coyote!!Because I wouldn't if I didn't think it was true. Our son works with the police dept. and is in the know on these things.
Post by: villageidiot on August 18, 2013, 09:02:53 PM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1254
Wolf in Whatcom Co.
« on: Today at 03:56:07 PM »
Apparently there has been a wolf spotted in rural Whatcom Co. near Ferndale. Friends of ours heard it howl from on his dairy farm. I think the Game Wardens are on to it. Suppose to be a lone wolf that was kicked out of the pack from the Cascades. It's not a good place for a wolf to be. To many people and livestock.
"
Steen, There is not place in Washington that is a "good place for a wolf to be". Even the rural areas on Okanogan county have people scattered around and cattlemen and all have pets and livestock that wolves like to kill. Theres' just no place for a wolf here in this state that will work. The West side of the state can handle wolves just as well as the east side. The only difference of the west side is that there are more people that will be complaining. It appears that the urban dwellers have no sympathy for the rural folks and are willing to sacrafice the rural dwellers so they can hear their precious wolf howl maybe once in their lifetime.
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 18, 2013, 09:12:00 PM
BINGO! I think we have a winner! Tell him what he's won Johnny.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1254
Wolf in Whatcom Co.
« on: Today at 03:56:07 PM »
Apparently there has been a wolf spotted in rural Whatcom Co. near Ferndale. Friends of ours heard it howl from on his dairy farm. I think the Game Wardens are on to it. Suppose to be a lone wolf that was kicked out of the pack from the Cascades. It's not a good place for a wolf to be. To many people and livestock.
"
Steen, There is not place in Washington that is a "good place for a wolf to be". Even the rural areas on Okanogan county have people scattered around and cattlemen and all have pets and livestock that wolves like to kill. Theres' just no place for a wolf here in this state that will work. The West side of the state can handle wolves just as well as the east side. The only difference of the west side is that there are more people that will be complaining. It appears that the urban dwellers have no sympathy for the rural folks and are willing to sacrafice the rural dwellers so they can hear their precious wolf howl maybe once in their lifetime.
Post by: Dave B on August 19, 2013, 08:52:13 AM
Post by: westside bull on August 19, 2013, 09:04:23 AM
I highly doubt that a wolf has made it to ferndale. just to many city folk that see and hear coyotes. And if it was plenty of county boys that would take care of it. :mgun::yeah: People where I live would handle it also!
Post by: steen on August 19, 2013, 07:25:06 PM
I agree that there is no good place for a wolf that is why I made the statement. A lot of us on the Westside don't like them either, don't try putting me in the "urban dwellers" that have no sympathy category.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1254
Wolf in Whatcom Co.
« on: Today at 03:56:07 PM »
Apparently there has been a wolf spotted in rural Whatcom Co. near Ferndale. Friends of ours heard it howl from on his dairy farm. I think the Game Wardens are on to it. Suppose to be a lone wolf that was kicked out of the pack from the Cascades. It's not a good place for a wolf to be. To many people and livestock.
"
Steen, There is not place in Washington that is a "good place for a wolf to be". Even the rural areas on Okanogan county have people scattered around and cattlemen and all have pets and livestock that wolves like to kill. Theres' just no place for a wolf here in this state that will work. The West side of the state can handle wolves just as well as the east side. The only difference of the west side is that there are more people that will be complaining. It appears that the urban dwellers have no sympathy for the rural folks and are willing to sacrafice the rural dwellers so they can hear their precious wolf howl maybe once in their lifetime.
Post by: steen on August 19, 2013, 07:26:23 PM
I agree that there is no good place for a wolf that is why I made the statement. A lot of us on the Westside don't like them either, don't try putting me in the "urban dwellers" that have no sympathy category. Just doing my part to add to the wolf sightings list.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1254
Wolf in Whatcom Co.
« on: Today at 03:56:07 PM »
Apparently there has been a wolf spotted in rural Whatcom Co. near Ferndale. Friends of ours heard it howl from on his dairy farm. I think the Game Wardens are on to it. Suppose to be a lone wolf that was kicked out of the pack from the Cascades. It's not a good place for a wolf to be. To many people and livestock.
"
Steen, There is not place in Washington that is a "good place for a wolf to be". Even the rural areas on Okanogan county have people scattered around and cattlemen and all have pets and livestock that wolves like to kill. Theres' just no place for a wolf here in this state that will work. The West side of the state can handle wolves just as well as the east side. The only difference of the west side is that there are more people that will be complaining. It appears that the urban dwellers have no sympathy for the rural folks and are willing to sacrafice the rural dwellers so they can hear their precious wolf howl maybe once in their lifetime.
Post by: Special T on August 19, 2013, 08:31:15 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 19, 2013, 08:53:32 PM
-Steve
Post by: cougarbart on August 19, 2013, 10:01:49 PM
Post by: wolfbait on August 20, 2013, 06:31:30 AM
For a wolf to make it to Ferndale, (not coming across the border -from our Cascades), he/she/it would have so so many opportunities to take dairy cows, sheep, and such that for just the travel time, (a dog's gotta eat ya know), I can't believe that there wouldn't be at least ten complaints of domestic animal attack. Any give time of year in a dairy county, there's calves available. There's sheep... There's no way there's a wild wolf in Ferndale.
-Steve
Remember the lookout pack showed over night, wolves that travel in USFWS and WDFW trucks travel much quicker.
Post by: AspenBud on August 22, 2013, 01:34:08 PM
This was within the last week or two.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 22, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
I'm not one for rumors, but I had a chat with friends of mine last night who think they may have seen one while horseback riding. They were up on the Baker Lake Trail and saw what they described as the "biggest coyote" they have ever seen. As in they were pretty sure it was a wolf. Said it just stood there and looked at them when they had stopped to give the horses a break and then slinked off into the woods. They think it had been following them for a while.
This was within the last week or two.
That's a little more realistic! And... I have mentioned a couple of my (I am not a biologist), visions in the woods on the west side from Rainier to Baker several years ago (Noisy Diobsud and such), and it has been believed that there have been 'lone wolves' and/or hybrids throughout our Cascades for many years. I just think it is a big stretch to have one in western Whatcom county without having livestock damage. There just isn't enough wildgame/food for a Wolfe to survive.
Besides
Quote
a wolf spotted in rural Whatcom Co. near Ferndale. Friends of ours heard it howl, Seeing, and hearing what they thought is one, given the environment, are two completely different things.
-edit - I said Eastern Whatcom Co. and meant western.
-Steve
Post by: snowpack on August 22, 2013, 01:49:37 PM
Post by: AspenBud on August 22, 2013, 03:39:51 PM
That's a little more realistic! And... I have mentioned a couple of my (I am not a biologist), visions in the woods on the west side from Rainier to Baker several years ago (Noisy Diobsud and such), and it has been believed that there have been 'lone wolves' and/or hybrids throughout our Cascades for many years. I just think it is a big stretch to have one in eastern Whatcom county without having livestock damage. There just isn't enough wildgame/food for a Wolfe to survive.
-Steve
In fairness, there are a number of studies out there that indicate wolves eat more than just big game if they have to.
I honestly have to believe that the reason their numbers are exploding in areas like the Methow is because there has been a lot of game there and there just aren't enough people around to make a difference. My Dad's stepfather used to hunt out that way for many years. He eventually gave up on the Okanogan and started hunting Montana because too many others had discovered the hunting was good there just as the wolves have. It got too crowded for his taste.
For a lot of reasons, wolves in Western Washington will likely have a harder go of it. Food is harder to come by, more cars, more parvo, and frankly more people willing to take matters into their own hands and stay quiet about it.
Post by: cougarbart on August 22, 2013, 04:51:03 PM
Post by: NoBark on August 22, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
1. I know Steen and I'm not about to doubt her.
2. Let's see, they say wolves travel 25 to 35 MILES a day if they want/need to. Baker to Ferndale..about that.
3. They say wolves often only eat once every 3 - 7 days. Maybe we wouldn't hear about it eating as it goes thru the county.
4. I say declare it a wolf and give the westside it's first 'confimed' pack so we get closer to fulfilling this STUPID wolf plan this state has put together.
:twocents:
Post by: jdb on August 22, 2013, 05:33:34 PM
lmao I heard the same thing around Spokane 4 yrs ago, no wolf would be around Spokane, its just wheat fields south of town and hay fields and houses a little north! oh wait one was hit and confirmed just east of Spokane a few miles down by all the houses? I heard a pack was confirmed eating sheep out by long lake? you guys need to realize these wolves are really moving and expanding where they go, so a wolf could go from Yakima to Olympia in a matter of a few days and back! not saying it is a wolf but get ready cause they are headed your way!since when are their wolves in yakima?
Post by: CedarPants on August 22, 2013, 06:03:53 PM
The Daily Howler: The Travels Of WA-017M and OR7
By Andy Walgamott, on May 23rd, 2013
A young Washington wolf is on its way to upsetting conventional wisdom about the mixing — err, lack thereof — of inland and coastal wolves in British Columbia.
The black-coated Smackout male known as WA-017M, which left its pack in the Evergreen State’s upper right-hand corner earlier this year, is reported as being 300 miles northwest of Oroville, Wash., at last check.
That’s a round figure and a rough description of its location based on the GPS collar that hangs around its neck, but it puts the animal roughly in the middle of the coastal mountains.
And dangerously close to fouling up the DNA of the “genetically distinct” salmon-eating, red-coated Canadian wolves thereabouts.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/editors-blog/the-daily-howler-the-travels-of-wa-017m-and-or7/
Could be false, I'm not sure but like I said so far I can't find anything published saying this isn't true. Maybe someone on here knows more about this :dunno:
Post by: Kain on August 22, 2013, 08:44:03 PM
http://www.wildcalifornia.org/blog/wolf-enters-california-wild-california-just-got-a-little-more-wild/ (http://www.wildcalifornia.org/blog/wolf-enters-california-wild-california-just-got-a-little-more-wild/)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wildcalifornia.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2FWolf-Habitat-Map.jpg&hash=dc5a70af09dda36106e3f65cb63085be8f2ac4a6)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pacificbio.org%2Finitiatives%2FESIN%2FMapImages%2Fgraywolf.jpg&hash=4d601a3524e8253b18e8d73a6893338050ef1441)
Post by: Whatcom on October 20, 2013, 03:59:00 PM
Hell yes, I'm one of the county boys, just let me know where......I highly doubt that a wolf has made it to ferndale. just to many city folk that see and hear coyotes. And if it was plenty of county boys that would take care of it. :mgun::yeah: People where I live would handle it also!
Post by: wolfbait on October 20, 2013, 05:50:27 PM
This thread brought to mind an article I remember reading last May. GPS readings from a collared male in Eastern Washington's Smackout Pack indicate he has traveled 300 miles west. If this is true (I haven't found anything to discredit it as of yet), a wolf near Ferndale wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
The Daily Howler: The Travels Of WA-017M and OR7
By Andy Walgamott, on May 23rd, 2013
A young Washington wolf is on its way to upsetting conventional wisdom about the mixing — err, lack thereof — of inland and coastal wolves in British Columbia.
The black-coated Smackout male known as WA-017M, which left its pack in the Evergreen State’s upper right-hand corner earlier this year, is reported as being 300 miles northwest of Oroville, Wash., at last check.
That’s a round figure and a rough description of its location based on the GPS collar that hangs around its neck, but it puts the animal roughly in the middle of the coastal mountains.
And dangerously close to fouling up the DNA of the “genetically distinct” salmon-eating, red-coated Canadian wolves thereabouts.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/editors-blog/the-daily-howler-the-travels-of-wa-017m-and-or7/
Could be false, I'm not sure but like I said so far I can't find anything published saying this isn't true. Maybe someone on here knows more about this :dunno:
"A young Washington wolf is on its way to upsetting conventional wisdom about the mixing — err, lack thereof — of inland and coastal wolves in British Columbia."
Everything wolf is turning out to be "Coastal" instead of Northern Alberta wolves. If you like your doctor, or health plan you can keep it.
I remember a few years back a few people on W-H spouted that the Lookout wolf pack came from the coastal region of British Columbia, right up to the point where I posted an article by the wolf specialist Scott Fitkin. He said that the lookout pack was from northern Alberta and Idaho. He didn't mention that they came to WA via ID, MT and Wyoming in the back of the USFWS trucks.
Welcome to WDF&Wolves.
I think it's time we turned up the heat, find out what became of the wolf attack at Harts Pass?
You know if it was against the hunter it would be all over the front page of every news paper!!!!!!
Post by: wolfbait on October 20, 2013, 05:57:04 PM
The USFWS brain-washed a generation of people.
Post by: idahohuntr on October 20, 2013, 09:58:11 PM
Twice in this thread wolfbait claimed wolves were intentionally transported into washington by WDFW/USFWS. This is false. Wolves (that were transplanted into my home state of Idaho) have migrated to Washington...probably some from B.C. too. Spreading false information damages the credibility of sportsmen...which will be necessary in convincing politicians in this state to manage wolves anything close to how Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming is managing them. :bash: :bash:
Post by: wolfbait on October 21, 2013, 06:18:00 PM
The silver lining to wolves in Whatcom co would be meeting the requirements for de-listing the darn things :dunno:
Twice in this thread wolfbait claimed wolves were intentionally transported into washington by WDFW/USFWS. This is false. Wolves (that were transplanted into my home state of Idaho) have migrated to Washington...probably some from B.C. too. Spreading false information damages the credibility of sportsmen...which will be necessary in convincing politicians in this state to manage wolves anything close to how Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming is managing them. :bash: :bash:
"Spreading false information damages the credibility of sportsmen...which will be necessary in convincing politicians in this state to manage wolves anything close to how Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming is managing them."
I would be more inclined to believe the USFWS and WDFW have a credibility problem, if it would have been up to the "sportsmen" wolves would be listed as a predator in WA.
What about all the sightings of WDFW and the USFWS releasing wolves in WA? How did WA start out with 8 wolves in the Okanogan and suddenly there are more wolves covering WA then WDFW want to count?
You say the Politicians will decide the wolf Plan? Is that after Defenders of Wildlife get done suing themselves="USFWS-WDFW"?
Which Politicians are you talking about?
"The silver lining to wolves in Whatcom co would be meeting the requirements for de-listing the darn things :dunno:"
The Silver Lining would have been WDFW going with a sensible wolf plan from the start, instead they choice an extreme pro-wolf plan, with 15 wolf packs. WY, MT, And Idaho ended up with 30 packs for all three states.
The Silver Lining would have been WDFW confirming 15 packs in 2009, instead of dragging their feet and being forced to confirm every wolf pack.
Do you think people should just be quiet and wait for delisting, in other-wards trust that WDFW will do the right thing for sportsmen, ranchers and the wildlife?
Post by: Birddogman on October 21, 2013, 07:21:52 PM
Although, a cougar was caught in Discovery Park in Seattle (land locked by hundreds of houses). Where is the proof?
Post by: wildweeds on October 21, 2013, 07:33:05 PM
Post by: Cougartail on October 21, 2013, 08:06:15 PM
WDFW was trying to trap a cougar down by the King Dome back in the 90s so anything is possible.
Post by: wildweeds on October 21, 2013, 08:23:21 PM
Lots of people own wolf hybrids in Washington & Oregon. Years ago they had an article about how many couldn't control them and some were let go. One breeder in Bellingham was telling of how many were returned to her. I remember reading about 2 captured in Oregon that were thought to be wolves but ended up being hybrids.
WDFW was trying to trap a cougar down by the King Dome back in the 90s so anything is possible.
Post by: paytonma on October 21, 2013, 08:38:10 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on October 21, 2013, 08:39:13 PM
Do you think people should just be quiet and wait for delisting, in other-wards trust that WDFW will do the right thing for sportsmen, ranchers and the wildlife?
No, what I am suggesting is we can't fight crazy with crazy or we will lose badly in this very liberal state. DoW are well funded, well organized and support a lot of liberal politicians in this state. I wish wolf management was decided by hunters, ranchers, and rural communities. That is simply not reality. Governor appointed commissioners, voter elected state politicians...that is who will set wolf policy. WDFW is more of a pawn in a very divisive social issue. I think it is extremely important for sportsmen, ranchers, folks in rural communities (particularly NE Washington) to speak out about personal experiences with wolves in an intelligent way and to make sure these politicians hear about the need to manage and control wolves. All of the energy expended on unsubstantiated conspiracies does not help. Hunters have science on their side...we don't need to resort to government conspiracies...they undermine all the evidence that supports wolf hunting/management in this state. Furthermore, it is perfectly reasonable to have disagreements with WDFW...they are a large organization with a diverse set of stakeholders...I could list dozens of things they could do better or hunting laws that should be changed (or eliminated!)...but at the end of the day they are important allies in getting wolves de-listed and minimizing wolf impacts to ungulate populations. As wrong as it may seem...we have to play the political game and be smart about the messages we convey as sportsmen...I'm not suggesting you have to cozy up with wdfw...just stomach them long enough to get the end result I think most all of us want: De-listed wolves and more control actions to reduce potential impacts to ungulates and livestock.
By the way...I noticed you disagreed with me without claiming I was a WDFW/USFWS insider...I appreciate that.
Post by: wolfbait on October 22, 2013, 09:27:32 AM
.but at the end of the day they are important allies in getting wolves de-listed and minimizing wolf impacts to ungulate populations."
This statement just doesn't add up, there are too many known wolf packs that WDFW are refusing to confirm, the Methow Valley is a perfect example. As far as minimizing the impacts wolves are having on the deer, etc. I have a hard time seeing this. in 2007 we fed over 100 head of deer with our horses, last year we had six. Talking to ranchers around the Methow and they have seen the same decline. What will it take for WDFW to acknowledge the impact an over population of cougars and wolves are having on the game herds. We have seen they are not honest about livestock killed by wolves.
Post by: idahohuntr on October 22, 2013, 12:03:10 PM
"it is perfectly reasonable to have disagreements with WDFW...they are a large organization with a diverse set of stakeholders...I could list dozens of things they could do better or hunting laws that should be changed (or eliminated!)..My experience with wolves is that they are difficult to observe/confirm...I spent months in the Frank Church wilderness and did not see a single wolf a few years ago...I know there are many, many packs in there. I think it is more of an issue in how hard it is to confirm packs than a deliberate attempt to under report them. This is where I think having reasonable conversations and not making enemies of WDFW helps. If you know where wolf packs are that have not been confirmed can you help wdfw? Maybe set trail cams (and take GPS coordinates of their location) so when you get wolves on camera you can share them with WDFW...or help their staff who are out trying to confirm wolf packs with just where they are...I doubt wdfw has many staff with much wolf experience and so that makes it even more challenging...not to mention they have limited resources. I guess at the end of the day I would rather someone like you work with WDFW to help them confirm wolves than simply make enemies of them in which case you ruin your ability to share your local knowledge of wolves which WDFW may desperately need...whether they admit it or not :chuckle:
.but at the end of the day they are important allies in getting wolves de-listed and minimizing wolf impacts to ungulate populations."
This statement just doesn't add up, there are too many known wolf packs that WDFW are refusing to confirm, the Methow Valley is a perfect example. As far as minimizing the impacts wolves are having on the deer, etc. I have a hard time seeing this. in 2007 we fed over 100 head of deer with our horses, last year we had six. Talking to ranchers around the Methow and they have seen the same decline. What will it take for WDFW to acknowledge the impact an over population of cougars and wolves are having on the game herds. We have seen they are not honest about livestock killed by wolves.
I am with you on making sure declines in ungulates are documented so that they can be addressed...what does WDFW say about deer herds in the Methow? Do they monitor this herd? If so, are their counts showing declines?
On the livestock, I think it is similar in that "confirming" a wolf kill may not be simple...I think it would be better if maybe a "suspected" wolf kill was sufficient for compensation...Although I know a rancher in Idaho who was at a wolf meeting years ago with IDFG, USFWS, and some greenie groups...a few of the whacko DoW people said livestock losses are not an issue because the rancher will be compensated. The rancher stood up and said his livelihood is to raise cattle to be sold on the market...not to raise them to be eaten by wolves and get paid by the government. I thought it was a great point...it would be like telling all of us hunters...hey, don't worry about wolves killing all your game...if you can't hunt anymore we will give you 50lbs of beef from the grocery store to compensate for the fact you can't hunt. Not a sufficient answer to any hunter I know!!
Post by: wolfbait on October 22, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
The USWS and WDFW know where their wolves are. What they need to know is that many people are seeing that they are liars, and these people are sharing.
The Alberta wolves have proven that the USFWS and WDFW ARE LIARS.
Ask WDFW, USFWS and the Defenders of Wildlife about their wolf push of the 1980's and 90's! Ask WDFW what happened to the SIX confirmed wolf packs of 1991. Ask WDFW who came up with the first wolf pack in seventy years for 2008! And then ask WDFW why these wolves were finally confirmed?
The sad issue is, the wildlife and livestock and the people who have to deal with wolves that never belonged in the lower 48 have to deal with a crooked USFWS and state game agencies infested by lawyer environmentalists. $600.00 per hr.
I wonder how much the USFWS and WDFW-AKA Defenders of Wildlife, will make off the Wolverine ??
Post by: idahohuntr on October 22, 2013, 09:42:09 PM
I watched (and still see) crazy rhetoric flying in Idaho on wolf management...there is not one example where someone making wild accusations against IDFG on wolf issues led to favorable wolf control outcomes. NOT ONE!! Reasonable voices calling for rationale, science based state management of wolves is what has carried the day. Read RMEF's position on wolf management...very responsible. To think using the same bunch of misinformation as the crazies in Idaho (none of your rants are original by the way...its all the same stupid BS I heard 5-10 years ago in Idaho) that you will make a difference in much more liberal Washington is absurd. Like it or not, WDFW is our biggest ally...the sooner you see that the better. Now, if you are just a general anti-government person hellbent on deriding all gov. agencies...thats fine...but don't disguise it in any shape, way, or form as giving a damn about actually doing something productive to help deer and elk populations.
Post by: Special T on October 23, 2013, 10:44:53 AM
I hear people like you constantly asking for more "reasonable" conversation about the wolf issue.
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW left wolves in the NE on the protected list despite the Feds taking them off ESA protections?
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW turned away help in time and $ to hire EXPERIENCED trappers and pay for expensive collars for wolves?
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW has blown off reports of wolves and or pups by Upstanding members here who provide the kinds of facts necessary to document wolves but are blown off? I might add that these people don't normally debate the wolf issue but have first hand experience.
Would it be reasonable to tell the public how many wolves have been collared by WDFW and USFS, and or their basic locations in WA?
Would it be reasonable to expect that when reporting wolf encounters/ sightings they would ask for all the details like time date, place, pics etc and then told you likely saw a hybrid?
Is it reasonable that the WDFW tells us we are seeing hybrids everywhere that can only damage the true genetic stock, yet tells us to do nothing, and does nothing in return?
I am amazed that people like your self see a friend in the WDFW or USFS. I know of good people that work for either, however LEADERSHIP is lacking in both agencies and they are the ones causing the problems. Individual bio's or wardens can bee good people, and want what is best for us, NONE of them have been willing to buck their leadership and talk about how we are being screwed.
Post by: wafisherman on October 23, 2013, 11:43:30 AM
http://www.predatorsoftheheart.com/ (http://www.predatorsoftheheart.com/)
Post by: Special T on October 23, 2013, 12:35:07 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on October 23, 2013, 03:03:52 PM
IF the WDFW is short handed and is truly interested in help, why did they not accept the help and funding of the cattlemen association to trap and collar wolves?Not sure...have you asked them why? What was their response? If the offer was legitimate it may be that government organizations are often restricted on who they can accept funding from...it may have been a legal issue. However, it may have also been a public perception issue...if the cattlemens association is funding wolf trapping is that biasing WDFW? How will that play out in court if DoW sues WDFW? May have been more cons than pros on taking valuable assistance. I don't know...I would be curious to hear WDFW's response.
The trust of the WDFW or the lack of skepticism you display idahohunter comes from either being ignorant of the facts or because you have an addenda to push. While i do not share wolfbaits vitriol of people like you, i am tired of people carrying the WDFW's water.I have no agenda, I represent no groups, I think for myself. I serve on the GMAC and have had limited interaction with WDFW on wolf issues...that is what I base my perceptions of them on. That and I have seen this same battle play out in Idaho and saw what was successful and not successful in terms of getting positive wolf management actions. I don't care what others think of me...I call a spade a spade.
I hear people like you constantly asking for more "reasonable" conversation about the wolf issue.No, but reality is you have a liberal state that has its own endangered species legislation. You can cry about it, but that is reality. WDFW must follow State Law.
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW left wolves in the NE on the protected list despite the Feds taking them off ESA protections?
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW turned away help in time and $ to hire EXPERIENCED trappers and pay for expensive collars for wolves?It may be reasonable, I don't know the details of the cattlemens offers and the restraints of wdfw...the governor appointed commission may not have allowed them to accept the money...see above.
Does it seem REASONABLE that the WDFW has blown off reports of wolves and or pups by Upstanding members here who provide the kinds of facts necessary to document wolves but are blown off? I might add that these people don't normally debate the wolf issue but have first hand experience.The requirements of confirming wolf packs are higher than just getting reports from upstanding citizens. If people were truly just "blown off" by WDFW I suspect it would only be folks like wolfbait who have spread consipracy and misinformation and made enemies of WDFW staff. Public servants have to listen to a lot of stupid BS...once you get put on the "bat-S*** crazy" list it is hard to get off that list :chuckle:
Would it be reasonable to tell the public how many wolves have been collared by WDFW and USFS, and or their basic locations in WA?There are laws that prevent disclosing specific animal locations, particularly animals protected by state legislation as wolves currently are. They report pack locations...which is a general area...is that not sufficient? I'm not sure there is a reason they can't identify how many wolves are collared...perhaps you just talked to someone who didn't know? Seems like I remember hearing specific numbers of wolves that have been collared by WDFW at some meeting, but I am unsure on that.
Would it be reasonable to expect that when reporting wolf encounters/ sightings they would ask for all the details like time date, place, pics etc and then told you likely saw a hybrid?Not sure what your point is here?
Is it reasonable that the WDFW tells us we are seeing hybrids everywhere that can only damage the true genetic stock, yet tells us to do nothing, and does nothing in return?Again, I don't understand your point. You think wdfw is trying to under-report wolves by claiming they are all hybrids? Stuff I have heard from Dave Ware of WDFW suggests that we are at the start of exponential growth of wolf numbers in Washington...similar to what was observed in wolf numbers in ID and MT. Essentially, WDFW is saying that we should expect to see a lot more wolves in the not too distant future.
I am amazed that people like your self see a friend in the WDFW or USFS. I know of good people that work for either, however LEADERSHIP is lacking in both agencies and they are the ones causing the problems. Individual bio's or wardens can bee good people, and want what is best for us, NONE of them have been willing to buck their leadership and talk about how we are being screwed.I don't recall using the word "friend"...but I have and will continue to state very clearly that WDFW is the strongest ally sportsmen have in gaining control actions on wolf populations in Washington. We (hunters, cattlemen, rural residents) need to find ways to support and help them manage wolves and ungulate populations using sound science. We need to use legislative process to help wdfw manage wolves. This means contacting legislators, governors etc. and voicing support when WDFW takes action (like removal of a wolf pack) to benefit hunters, livestock producers etc. WDFW supports legislation to list wolves as big game animals so they can be managed like any other big game in this state...insert your criticism here :chuckle: They have sold it to enviro groups as a way to levy higher fines if wolves are poached...which I think is clever...in reality it makes it easier/possible to manage wolves like big game...including hunting seasons. Bottom line, I have seen no credible evidence that WDFW has any interest in not managing wolves responsibly and with respect to their potential impacts to ungulate populations.
Post by: luke_a on October 25, 2013, 08:15:25 AM
A few weeks ago a neighbor told me he saw a moose in our neighborhood and that there were numerous 911 calls reporting a moose a couple days later in a nearby area.
I think it's extremely rare for these animals to venture to this area, but it's definitely a possibility. In the case of the wolf sightings in Ferndale, if there really are wolves here, they are most likely hybrids from the indian reservation a couple miles down the road.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 25, 2013, 08:33:13 AM
Post by: scottr on October 25, 2013, 02:29:24 PM
I grew up in Ferndale and currently work in Ferndale adjacent to a WDFW wildlife area. Numerous people that I work with claim to have seen and heard wolves in this area over the past few decades. These are avid hunters and outdoorsmen, not city dwellers that can't tell the difference between a yote and a wolf. I personally heard a call a couple weeks ago that I know was not a coyote, and my first thought was that it was a wolf. I disregarded it until I remembered this thread, and started asking around here at work. I still have my doubts, but I think it's a possibility. The guys also tell me they had a Moose in this area back in the 90's. Our employer has a large orchard and the moose would visit the orchard daily to eat the apples. There's a thread on here somewhere about a moose on I5 near Blaine, not sure if it's the same moose, but could be.
A few weeks ago a neighbor told me he saw a moose in our neighborhood and that there were numerous 911 calls reporting a moose a couple days later in a nearby area.
I think it's extremely rare for these animals to venture to this area, but it's definitely a possibility. In the case of the wolf sightings in Ferndale, if there really are wolves here, they are most likely hybrids from the indian reservation a couple miles down the road.
When I was at WWU for College in the 90s there was a moose roaming around Mt. Sehome and the Huxley Campus one fall.
I have no doubt a lone wolf could find it's way to Ferndale. My wife saw a lone wolf outside of North Bend up Middle Fork road two summers ago during the Taylor Bridge fire. Wildlife can use very narrow greenbelt lanes (creek & river bottoms, powerline & gasline easements, etc) to travel large distances in a relatively short amount of time.
Post by: blood thirsty on November 01, 2013, 07:34:16 AM
Post by: Birddogman on November 03, 2013, 06:10:48 PM
Post by: luke_a on November 04, 2013, 06:31:35 AM
Hope, BC is a long cry from Ferndale. The big barrier I-5 prevents a lot of animals getting over to Ferndale. "IF" there are wolves there, what are they there for? More likely a Reservation stay that "looks" like a wolf. The calls that people have been hearing are people, or maybe the BP whistle when it goes off.....
What I heard wasn't a person, and definitely not any type of whistle. BP doesn't have a "whistle", they have sirens with different tones, but no whistle. I do a agree though, that it's most likely a hybrid from the reservation. I5 isn't as big of a barrier as you might think, in the early morning hours I've seen every type of native wild animal cross I5 on my way to work.
If a moose can make it over here, then why not a wolf?
Post by: 7mmfan on November 04, 2013, 07:24:46 AM
It would take one of them about a day to make it to Ferndale from Rockport. And who says I-5 would stop them? They don't know its I-5. They've swam across rivers and crossed mountain passes, why would a couple hundred feet of pavement stop them? They're an apex predator that really have no fear of anything, let alone people. I-5 is not a real busy road up there, especially at night.
Post by: Hannibal on November 04, 2013, 07:54:19 AM
Quote
The big barrier I-5 prevents a lot of animals getting over to Ferndale.
I could walk across the Nooksack last week,,,,,,,Also can drive my pickup under the 1-5 bridge that goes over the Nooksack......
Has anyone seen this wolf?
I have not seen any tracks on the river.
Funny thing is that my dog started this "wolf like howl" last winter,,,,,,neighbors have told me that they heard a wolf cry?
Sooooo?
Dog lives outside of ferdale on paradice .......and on NW& pole when I am out of town....
Post by: wildweeds on November 04, 2013, 04:45:29 PM
Post by: Birddogman on November 04, 2013, 07:26:33 PM
Come to think about it, the coyotes howl like wolves when an ambulance rolls by on our road....
Produce a carcass and i'll believe
Post by: wildweeds on November 04, 2013, 07:36:07 PM
Speculation until a body is found/discovered. I guess it could be possible, but for what would they be going over there for? Not a dense area for deer, many land owners with rifles/guns and not a lot of open space to roam as a pack.:yeah: plenty of slow elk targets around here,a couple hundred of em in one field near here,not to mention alot of hobby farmers with alpacas/llamas,sheep and goats
Come to think about it, the coyotes howl like wolves when an ambulance rolls by on our road....
Produce a carcass and i'll believe
Post by: steen on December 19, 2013, 09:31:37 PM
Post by: denali on December 19, 2013, 10:29:48 PM