Post by: Kain on August 19, 2013, 11:44:39 AM
May be using this model to manage wolves.
Post by: Curly on August 19, 2013, 11:50:54 AM
Quote
“The concept of thinking about cougars’ social system and how they interact, in terms of management, is something that has never been done before,” said Rich Beausoleil, cougar and bear specialist for Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.
Rich Beausoleil is a real piece of work. :bash:
Post by: whacker1 on August 19, 2013, 11:54:23 AM
Post by: BIGINNER on August 19, 2013, 11:55:40 AM
what about the young cats that get chased away by older cats and end up in someones back yard? we've had about 5 or 6 cougar sightings in tri cites over the past 2 years. most ended up being killed by police.
Post by: Kain on August 19, 2013, 12:02:18 PM
Fact: boot hunters take more juvenile cats. source:(http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00433/wdfw00433.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00433/wdfw00433.pdf) Page 86) The exact same cats that the older males would kill anyways. Limiting hunting season has nothing to do with "science based strategies" and has everything to do with stroking ego's and playing politics.
2012 numbers are in also 139 hunter harvest 20 other
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi406.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp150%2FNaithankain%2FCougarHarvests4.jpg&hash=af4d1fc6d8d753ebb2942fde9257bc350cf45c3c)
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 19, 2013, 12:02:48 PM
Knowing the stark differences between the solitary nature of a male cougar and the extremely social nature of wolves, how can a supposed biologist say that this study might well be a help in creating the management plan for the wolves? There are no similarities other than that they are predators. It's like dogs and cats. Oh, it IS dogs and cats. Yeah, someone's an idiot and that someone is most of the WDFW. Wow!
Post by: Old Dog on August 19, 2013, 12:05:47 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on August 19, 2013, 12:10:22 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on August 19, 2013, 12:13:54 PM
Quote
Often two or more younger cats enter the territory formerly occupied by a single adult male.
But it then grows because
Quote
Instead of one you now have three cougars,” Beausoleil explained.
and get even worse because...
Quote
“If you live in one of those areas where a male was removed, instead of seeing one, now your potential is to see three or four because those animals are too young to defend their home range. Now you’re thinking, ‘Holy smokes, the cougar population really exploded.’ It really hasn’t, it’s a temporary chaotic condition.”
Same BS with the wolf speeches I've been too. They want to help us too! The is PRESERVATION not CONSERVATION and smells like BS.
Apparently, they would prefer cats to kill each other more than they would prefer you to kill one.
Post by: Kain on August 19, 2013, 12:26:58 PM
So....if you kill the adult dominant male...QuoteOften two or more younger cats enter the territory formerly occupied by a single adult male.
But it then grows becauseQuoteInstead of one you now have three cougars,” Beausoleil explained.
and get even worse because...Quote“If you live in one of those areas where a male was removed, instead of seeing one, now your potential is to see three or four because those animals are too young to defend their home range. Now you’re thinking, ‘Holy smokes, the cougar population really exploded.’ It really hasn’t, it’s a temporary chaotic condition.”
Same BS with the wolf speeches I've been too. They want to help us too! The is PRESERVATION not CONSERVATION and smells like BS.
Apparently, they would prefer cats to kill each other more than they would prefer you to kill one.
Exactly.
Not exactly in keeping with their legislative mandate but since when did they care about what the law is.
Quote
RCW 77.04.012
Mandate of department and commission.
Wildlife, fish, and shellfish are the property of the state. The commission, director, and the department shall preserve, protect, perpetuate, and manage the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish in state waters and offshore waters.
The department shall conserve the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish resources in a manner that does not impair the resource. In a manner consistent with this goal, the department shall seek to maintain the economic well-being and stability of the fishing industry in the state. The department shall promote orderly fisheries and shall enhance and improve recreational and commercial fishing in this state.
The commission may authorize the taking of wildlife, food fish, game fish, and shellfish only at times or places, or in manners or quantities, as in the judgment of the commission does not impair the supply of these resources.
The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
Recognizing that the management of our state wildlife, food fish, game fish, and shellfish resources depends heavily on the assistance of volunteers, the department shall work cooperatively with volunteer groups and individuals to achieve the goals of this title to the greatest extent possible.
Nothing in this title shall be construed to infringe on the right of a private property owner to control the owner's private property.
[2000 c 107 § 2; 1983 1st ex.s. c 46 § 5; 1975 1st ex.s. c 183 § 1; 1949 c 112 § 3, part; Rem. Supp. 1949 § 5780-201, part. Formerly RCW 75.08.012, 43.25.020.]
Notes:
State policy regarding improvement of recreational salmon fishing: See note following RCW 77.65.150.
Post by: snowpack on August 19, 2013, 12:28:20 PM
Post by: Kain on August 19, 2013, 12:38:12 PM
Post by: huntnphool on August 19, 2013, 12:46:53 PM
Post by: get one leakin on August 19, 2013, 05:58:31 PM
Post by: grundy53 on August 19, 2013, 06:14:26 PM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: steen on August 19, 2013, 06:59:16 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 19, 2013, 07:03:43 PM
Post by: Kain on August 19, 2013, 07:16:21 PM
I couldn't believe they closed 105 for the second half of the season last year - pissed me off.
Well they had to close down some units or the whole new system would have been seen as a big waste of time. Which of course it is.
Post by: KFhunter on August 19, 2013, 07:17:45 PM
I couldn't believe they closed 105 for the second half of the season last year - pissed me off.
Well they had to close down some units or the whole new system would have been seen as a big waste of time. Which of course it is.
exactly the impression I had :bash:
So I had to go across the river and hunt 101
Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end. NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.
Post by: Kain on August 19, 2013, 07:29:23 PM
I couldn't believe they closed 105 for the second half of the season last year - pissed me off.
Well they had to close down some units or the whole new system would have been seen as a big waste of time. Which of course it is.
exactly the impression I had :bash:
So I had to go across the river and hunt 101
Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end. NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.
Prior to them to making a bunch of ridiculous changes in 2008 we had a season that ran from August to March with two tags. Average harvest, including the pilot program, was 200 cats per year. WELL below their current harvest guidelines. The vast majority of cats are taken during general deer and elk seasons. Extending the season year round would result in very few additional kills. They know all of this but refuse to extend the season or allow additional tags.
Then they claim it is science based strategies.
Oh well, very few hunters were vocal enough to get anything done about it and now they are taking this same garbage to wolf management.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 19, 2013, 07:36:56 PM
That answers a lot right there.
Post by: snowpack on August 19, 2013, 07:40:20 PM
exactly the impression I had :bash:I was talking to lady that delivers newspapers over here and she sees lots of cougars and nearly hits a few each year with the car. I guess when you're like the only vehicle cruising the roads from about 2am to 5 am you get to see lots critters. A few years back it was rare to just see even one cat during the year along the paper route.
So I had to go across the river and hunt 101
Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end. NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.
Post by: huntnphool on August 19, 2013, 08:00:08 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 19, 2013, 08:19:51 PM
exactly the impression I had :bash:I was talking to lady that delivers newspapers over here and she sees lots of cougars and nearly hits a few each year with the car. I guess when you're like the only vehicle cruising the roads from about 2am to 5 am you get to see lots critters. A few years back it was rare to just see even one cat during the year along the paper route.
So I had to go across the river and hunt 101
Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end. NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.
ayup
I see em night all the time, usually coming up out of someone's back yard or out of a small neighborhood.
(especially the russian communities :devil: :chuckle: )
Post by: Harborhunter on August 19, 2013, 10:48:46 PM
Post by: mulehunter on August 21, 2013, 12:56:14 PM
WDFW. :pee:
Post by: Houndhunter on August 21, 2013, 01:48:08 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 21, 2013, 02:13:59 PM
Post by: buckfvr on August 21, 2013, 02:31:51 PM
I agree......going to be stuff left in the woods to rot......cats, bears, wolves........doesnt have to be this way, but we are in the way of their desired outcome......move over hunters, you are about to be replaced and obsolete.
Post by: Kain on August 21, 2013, 03:03:24 PM
Around 750 new kittens survive their first year in WA. Since populations are at, or over, carrying capacity population are staying pretty stable in undeveloped areas. That means that for every new cat that enters the population one dies. 750+ cats being killed and hunters are taking around 150 of them. If hunters were allowed to harvest up to 10% of the population it would not have any impact on total population or age structures. WDFW know all this but is pandering to the predator lovers.
Totally backwards thinking and a complete waste of a resource. Like letting trees burn in forest fires instead of logging them. It is also a financial drain on a cash strapped state. Not only are they losing revenue, from cougar hunters and reduced ungulate opportunities, they are having to pay for more human/cougar conflict issues as cougars try to expand into developed areas.
Post by: bearpaw on August 21, 2013, 06:03:48 PM
Unfortunately there is already HUNDREDS of cats being left to rot in the woods. They are just being killed by other cougars.
Around 750 new kittens survive their first year in WA. Since populations are at, or over, carrying capacity population are staying pretty stable in undeveloped areas. That means that for every new cat that enters the population one dies. 750+ cats being killed and hunters are taking around 150 of them. If hunters were allowed to harvest up to 10% of the population it would not have any impact on total population or age structures. WDFW know all this but is pandering to the predator lovers.
Totally backwards thinking and a complete waste of a resource. Like letting trees burn in forest fires instead of logging them. It is also a financial drain on a cash strapped state. Not only are they losing revenue, from cougar hunters and reduced ungulate opportunities, they are having to pay for more human/cougar conflict issues as cougars try to expand into developed areas.
Excellent points that we need to drive home in commission meetings. :tup:
Post by: buckfvr on August 21, 2013, 06:15:19 PM
Granted, they do their studies in order to promote their agenda with an outcome that supports it, but at what cost and to whom ?
Seems as though they take our money and put it to work against us. :twocents:
Post by: cougarbart on August 21, 2013, 06:51:16 PM