Post by: KFhunter on September 20, 2013, 10:10:11 PM
via a voucher system :chuckle: :tup:
If you want to hunt ungulates, you got to do your part.
How it works; (the amounts and such are for illustration purposes and would vary depending on location and herd quality)
1 coyote will get you a standard deer voucher, with that voucher you can buy a standard OTC deer tag.
5 coyote = Elk OTC (spike only) voucher
1 bear = Elk voucher + Deer voucher (standard OTC type tags).
1 Cougar = Quality Elk + deer voucher
5 Cougar = star voucher (can't sell) for standard tags, but not quality tags (true spikes)
1 wolf = Quality any bull any method Elk tag + deer
5 wolves = star voucher for life for standard tags (can't sell) but not quality tags (true spikes).
This will slow down the number of ungulate hunters and dramatically increase the predator hunting going on = bigger better herds.
right now there is zero incentive for people to go wack a yote, bear cat etc.
Here's the kicker, you can buy vouchers from other hunters! So you get a very successful coyote hunter he/she could sell those vouchers. It wouldn't be a "bounty" that way nor would it make use of tax payer funds.
edit:
This voucher system won't work, but there's some good discussion so read through and if you have a good idea let's hear it!
Post by: KFhunter on September 20, 2013, 10:13:59 PM
Star vouchers would be attached to your hunter ID and not transferrable.
Post by: snowpack on September 20, 2013, 10:14:59 PM
Post by: deaner on September 20, 2013, 10:15:37 PM
Post by: KFhunter on September 20, 2013, 10:22:21 PM
Post by: KFhunter on September 20, 2013, 10:25:02 PM
Post by: grundy53 on September 21, 2013, 06:46:10 AM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: Curly on September 21, 2013, 07:09:04 AM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on September 21, 2013, 09:13:04 AM
If I had my way, I'd make better use of hunters in managing herds.
via a voucher system :chuckle: :tup:
If you want to hunt ungulates, you got to do your part.
How it works; (the amounts and such are for illustration purposes and would vary depending on location and herd quality)
1 coyote will get you a standard deer voucher, with that voucher you can buy a standard OTC deer tag.
5 coyote = Elk OTC (spike only) voucher
1 bear = Elk voucher + Deer voucher (standard OTC type tags).
1 Cougar = Quality Elk + deer voucher
5 Cougar = star voucher (can't sell) for standard tags, but not quality tags (true spikes)
1 wolf = Quality any bull any method Elk tag + deer
5 wolves = star voucher for life for standard tags (can't sell) but not quality tags (true spikes).
This will slow down the number of ungulate hunters and dramatically increase the predator hunting going on = bigger better herds.
right now there is zero incentive for people to go wack a yote, bear cat etc.
Here's the kicker, you can buy vouchers from other hunters! So you get a very successful coyote hunter he/she could sell those vouchers. It wouldn't be a "bounty" that way nor would it make use of tax payer funds.
Here's the real kicker. Your idea would never work.
According to the best stats I could find, here's a break down of the number of predators in the state.
Coyotes -------- 50,000
Black bears ---- 30,000
Cougars -------- 2,500
Wolves --------- 100 - 200
The only number that looks out of whack by a long shot to me is coyotes. I'd be willing to bet there are closer to 100,000 of the song dogs in this state. Even if I'm right there is a problem if you're giving out deer and elk tags for predators.
In 2012 there were 120,000 deer hunters and 68,000 elk hunters.Together, that's 188,000 tags. Way more than the total # of predators in the state. So even if every predator in the state was killed (which will never happen even if the State said "Go for it!", which it won't) There wouldn't be enough tags to go around by at least 50,000. Add to that figure the 22,000 deer tags purchased that didn't get hunted and the 28,000 elk tags that didn't get hunted, and you've got 100,000 tags that won't be purchased and a bunch of hunting licenses. That's a lot of money the State would have to make up. Most likely by at least doubling the price of licenses and tags to the successful varmint hunters. And you're also going to have a revolt on your hands from the hunters who didn't take a predator so didn't earn a tag. This plan would get rid of more hunters in a year than the most diabolical plan put out by anti-hunters outside of an outright ban on hunting!
Post by: KFhunter on September 21, 2013, 12:25:34 PM
If I had my way, I'd make better use of hunters in managing herds.
via a voucher system :chuckle: :tup:
If you want to hunt ungulates, you got to do your part.
How it works; (the amounts and such are for illustration purposes and would vary depending on location and herd quality)
1 coyote will get you a standard deer voucher, with that voucher you can buy a standard OTC deer tag.
5 coyote = Elk OTC (spike only) voucher
1 bear = Elk voucher + Deer voucher (standard OTC type tags).
1 Cougar = Quality Elk + deer voucher
5 Cougar = star voucher (can't sell) for standard tags, but not quality tags (true spikes)
1 wolf = Quality any bull any method Elk tag + deer
5 wolves = star voucher for life for standard tags (can't sell) but not quality tags (true spikes).
This will slow down the number of ungulate hunters and dramatically increase the predator hunting going on = bigger better herds.
right now there is zero incentive for people to go wack a yote, bear cat etc.
Here's the kicker, you can buy vouchers from other hunters! So you get a very successful coyote hunter he/she could sell those vouchers. It wouldn't be a "bounty" that way nor would it make use of tax payer funds.
Here's the real kicker. Your idea would never work.
According to the best stats I could find, here's a break down of the number of predators in the state.
Coyotes -------- 50,000
Black bears ---- 30,000
Cougars -------- 2,500
Wolves --------- 100 - 200
The only number that looks out of whack by a long shot to me is coyotes. I'd be willing to bet there are closer to 100,000 of the song dogs in this state. Even if I'm right there is a problem if you're giving out deer and elk tags for predators.
In 2012 there were 120,000 deer hunters and 68,000 elk hunters.Together, that's 188,000 tags. Way more than the total # of predators in the state. So even if every predator in the state was killed (which will never happen even if the State said "Go for it!", which it won't) There wouldn't be enough tags to go around by at least 50,000. Add to that figure the 22,000 deer tags purchased that didn't get hunted and the 28,000 elk tags that didn't get hunted, and you've got 100,000 tags that won't be purchased and a bunch of hunting licenses. That's a lot of money the State would have to make up. Most likely by at least doubling the price of licenses and tags to the successful varmint hunters. And you're also going to have a revolt on your hands from the hunters who didn't take a predator so didn't earn a tag. This plan would get rid of more hunters in a year than the most diabolical plan put out by anti-hunters outside of an outright ban on hunting!
now we're talking, was just an idea floated to get the conversation started. Also I don't believe those number you posted for a second, I know they're probably the best out there but they are very subjective. It's easier to keep track of deer/elk populations then control all predators related to that species until the numbers are back up.
Another idea, instead of vouchers add points for predators for quality hunt draws. Kill a cat, get a point added you can put towards a quality elk draw.
Anyone else got any ideas?
We're fast heading towards a predator pit, we've got to get hunters out there controlling the populations.
Post by: snowpack on September 21, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
Post by: summertime blues on October 09, 2013, 12:44:12 PM
Post by: Special T on October 09, 2013, 12:58:17 PM
This state is all about protecting predators, not making them easier to kill. :twocents:
Post by: KFhunter on October 09, 2013, 01:01:41 PM
We'll see deer/elk go more and more to permit draws and OTC hunting decline, still very few hunters will do their part to cull predators.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 09, 2013, 01:07:04 PM
Post by: Special T on October 09, 2013, 01:15:31 PM
Post by: jasnt on October 16, 2013, 05:23:57 PM
I kind of like the points toward the draw better. Keeps hunters in the game, and gives a little more incentive to kill predators. I do think cougar and bear should be unlimited for a hunter--let the guys that like to kill them get as many as they want (still a small number).
+1. Or at least up the bag limit
Post by: predatorpro on October 16, 2013, 06:02:36 PM
Post by: Maverick on October 16, 2013, 07:35:48 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 16, 2013, 07:54:52 PM
I just wanted some brain-storming on how to promote predator hunting.
Post by: buckfvr on October 16, 2013, 08:11:03 PM
Post by: jasnt on October 17, 2013, 05:53:33 AM
If more guys knew that your average n.e. bear ate better than whitetail, maybe theyd be a bit more in demand..........THey are absolutely delicious......fact.
+1 I love bear meat!
Post by: stevemiller on October 22, 2013, 10:40:17 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 23, 2017, 01:24:36 PM
http://www.georgiawildlife.com/hunting/resources/CoyoteChallenge
Quote
In order to encourage the taking of coyotes from March to August, the Georgia Department of Natural Resources’ Wildlife Resources Division is introducing the Georgia Coyote Challenge.
Each coyote killed, up to five (5) a month per hunter/trapper, will earn an entry into a monthly drawing for a lifetime license (or equal credit for purchase of hunting/fishing licenses)*.
Currently, scientific research suggests that removal of coyotes during the spring and summer is the most advantageous time to reduce the impact of predation on native wildlife. We want to encourage coyote removal efforts during this critical period.
The coyote (Canis latrans) is a non-native predator that can be found in every county in Georgia and has the unique ability to live in a variety of habitats. Trapping and/or hunting are legal and recommended methods for managing coyotes. Because they did not historically live in Georgia, there is no closed season for their harvest.
HOW DO YOU PARTICIPATE IN THE GEORGIA COYOTE CHALLENGE?
Participants may bring a coyote carcass to one of the following offices (Monday-Friday, between 8 am – 4:30 pm, excluding holidays):
Game Management Offices
Riverbend WMA office (1945 S. Hwy 199, E. Dublin, GA 31027)
Waycross Fisheries Management Office
Richmond Hill Hatchery Office
Demeries Creek Fisheries Management Office (22814 Hwy. 144, Richmond Hill, GA 31324)
Participants can submit up to five coyotes for five entries in the contest in a single month.
Participant must be present during submission of coyote.
Coyotes must have been killed between the first and last days of the submission month. Road-kills, spoiled carcasses, and live coyotes are not eligible.
Coyote carcasses will be returned to participant, who must ensure its' proper disposal. Some disposal guidelines provided here.
OTHER INFORMATION ABOUT COYOTES
Coyote Fact Sheet
Nuisance Wildlife Information
*The sponsor of the first lifetime license (or equal credit for purchase of hunting/fishing licenses) giveaway is the Georgia Hunting and Fishing Federation.
Post by: jackmaster on February 23, 2017, 01:29:02 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 23, 2017, 01:34:19 PM
WDFW you listening?? *chirp* *chirp* *chirp*
Post by: Gringo31 on February 23, 2017, 01:39:21 PM
But....I'll say this about most coyote hunters. They usually don't hunt coyotes in the area they deer and elk hunt. Most guys will grab a rifle and head to "somewhere" in eastern wa to just kill a coyote. It seems there should be a incentive to gain access/tags/opportunities in the area that you are improving :twocents:
Post by: Gringo31 on February 23, 2017, 01:41:10 PM
Coyotes are devastating to antelope fawns. They flat out clean them out. If managed properly, they would have "hot spots" for points etc. This way they would have some control of where the benefit would be taking place. :twocents:
Post by: Curly on February 23, 2017, 02:18:16 PM
Post by: Cougartail on February 23, 2017, 02:39:01 PM
One interesting thing I noticed in the area we hunt antelope in Wyoming............there are virtually no coyotes. I assume the Wyoming cattle ranchers have some very good techniques for keeping the coyote population in check.
It's called a leghold trap.
Post by: KFhunter on February 23, 2017, 02:54:47 PM
One interesting thing I noticed in the area we hunt antelope in Wyoming............there are virtually no coyotes. I assume the Wyoming cattle ranchers have some very good techniques for keeping the coyote population in check.
It's called a leghold trap.
It's called helicopters :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 23, 2017, 03:14:51 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 23, 2017, 03:25:09 PM
I'd love to see it. Although, it'd never pass muster and the WSU We Love Predators Club. I can just hear the high-pitched whine from here.
That's what peeves me so much, that guy was ousted as a fraud and liar by WSU itself - yet we're still dealing with his so called predator science.
Just in case someone missed it, everyone needs to see it.
https://news.wsu.edu/2016/08/31/wsu-issues-statement-clarifying-comments-profanity-peak-wolf-pack/
snip
PULLMAN, Wash. – Washington State University and the WSU College of Agricultural, Human and Natural Resources Sciences Wednesday issued the following statement regarding public statements made by Rob Wielgus, associate professor and director of the Large Carnivore Conservation Lab at WSU, related to the Profanity Peak wolf pack.
Some of Wielgus’ statements in regard to this controversial issue have been both inaccurate and inappropriate. As such, they have contributed substantially to the growing anger and confusion about this significant wildlife management issue and have unfairly jeopardized the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife’s Wolf Advisory Group’s many-months long stakeholder process. Moreover, the statements do not in any way represent the views or position of WSU or the College of Agricultural, Human and Natural Resources Sciences.
These statements are disavowed by our institutions.
We offer the following corrections of the information in the public arena: more at the link
It just doesn't get any more clear than that, Wielgus has influenced the wolf plan and the cougar plan and was instrumental in getting the current cougar quota limits.
Post by: jackelope on February 23, 2017, 03:32:44 PM
Also I see this as a good way to create an overpopulation issue with deer and/or elk. In theory you'll reduce the predator population and you'll also, in theory, reduce the number of deer/elk hunters. Sort of throws management out the window. If it doesn't cause overpopulation issues, then I'd be concerned with what this shows the anti-hunting crowd that hunting of deer and elk really is not an effective management tool.
Just a few thoughts.
Post by: KFhunter on February 23, 2017, 03:41:53 PM
I think that from a predator management standpoint, the need to kill coyotes is more important than the need to kill black bears so I'd adjust the coyote reward points.
Also I see this as a good way to create an overpopulation issue with deer and/or elk. In theory you'll reduce the predator population and you'll also, in theory, reduce the number of deer/elk hunters. Sort of throws management out the window. If it doesn't cause overpopulation issues, then I'd be concerned with what this shows the anti-hunting crowd that hunting of deer and elk really is not an effective management tool.
Just a few thoughts.
Without helicopters and footholds I just don't think we can get there. As far as the points mentioned in the 1st post it was just something to throw out there, there's no science or methodology behind the point system other than the introduction of the idea itself. An incentive for predator management was what the whole post was about.
If somehow the coyotes were culled too heavily in a certain area they will rebound quicker than just about any other species, it might even do their genetic pool some good if it got them ranging further and reestablishing territory that's been shot out.
Post by: Gringo31 on February 23, 2017, 03:56:11 PM
IF this were to ever go through, I'd bet I never went another year without shooting 100 dogs (assuming this meant an annual total.....which would also bring up sensitive issues about certain things that could happen during certain times of the spring)
Post by: KFhunter on February 23, 2017, 06:04:16 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on February 23, 2017, 07:00:49 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on February 24, 2017, 10:02:33 AM
Quote
Honestly, I believe coyotes are the most harmful predator in the State. Knock them way back and you're going to see fawn survival multiply like you won't believe and bird hunting will vastly improve. Most people don't realize the chunk of fawns taken out of the herd by coyotes.
I believe this is a true statement. Yes, it helps that coyotes are in every area of the state. There is a whole bunch of E. Wa that doesn't have much for bears or cougars. That being said, there is an area I know that the first fall I was there I saw 18 does come out to a field and not a fawn with them. 60 coyotes a year later, and fawns are the norm again.
Post by: bearpaw on February 24, 2017, 10:38:15 AM
QuoteHonestly, I believe coyotes are the most harmful predator in the State. Knock them way back and you're going to see fawn survival multiply like you won't believe and bird hunting will vastly improve. Most people don't realize the chunk of fawns taken out of the herd by coyotes.
I believe this is a true statement. Yes, it helps that coyotes are in every area of the state. There is a whole bunch of E. Wa that doesn't have much for bears or cougars. That being said, there is an area I know that the first fall I was there I saw 18 does come out to a field and not a fawn with them. 60 coyotes a year later, and fawns are the norm again.
:yeah: Agreed, coyotes probably kill more fawns than any other predator.
I think that from a predator management standpoint, the need to kill coyotes is more important than the need to kill black bears so I'd adjust the coyote reward points.
Also I see this as a good way to create an overpopulation issue with deer and/or elk. In theory you'll reduce the predator population and you'll also, in theory, reduce the number of deer/elk hunters. Sort of throws management out the window. If it doesn't cause overpopulation issues, then I'd be concerned with what this shows the anti-hunting crowd that hunting of deer and elk really is not an effective management tool.
Just a few thoughts.
:yeah: I agree, coyotes are far more harmful than bear. Studies have found that bear predation varies from area to area, not all bear are as predatory as others and the biggest impact from bear is only for a couple weeks during fawning and calving seasons.
Post by: idaho guy on February 24, 2017, 06:53:02 PM
I love hunting coyotes. But have no experience cougar hunting. I'm down for your voucher idea but with one exception. Bring hound hunting back for cougars!
Great idea kfhunter only would work on getting points towards drawing tags I think. Number one way to control predators would be to bring hound hunting back. This I think should be number 1 objective that huntwa community could get behind. and please include non resident houndsman in the plan
Post by: Humptulips on February 24, 2017, 07:54:41 PM
Hunting is inefficient for predator control unless you allow hounds and traps and snares.
You won't make a dent without them.
Post by: idaho guy on February 24, 2017, 08:17:37 PM
All that is needed is for the State to get out of the way. Coyote prices turned out pretty good this year but in WA we effectively cannot trap them.
Hunting is inefficient for predator control unless you allow hounds and traps and snares.
You won't make a dent without them.
Totally agree! Why not start a huntwa group that push getting hounds back? I spent only a few days each year deer hunting with my boy and seen way too many cat tracks! Allowing houndsman to control predators lion and bear the right way would be a great first step to control predators. I like lions and typically let females small cats go in Idaho where they are almost over hunted. So I am not anti lion or bear wolves I do hate and don't know if we will ever control them point is a great first step is organize huntwa and bring back the hounds!
Post by: ghosthunter on February 24, 2017, 08:18:07 PM
Many years ago the state did a survey of hunters. What was important to them.
The vast majority placed hunting with family or friends higher than harvesting a animal.
The point idea might work keeps all in the game.
But I do t believe hunters with current rules can even make a dent in yote population.
You still have to have time to hunt. Most guys exhaust any time they have on bear,deer,elk maybe some birds. All the points in the world won't get the boss to give you more time off. Than throw in family obligations.
Yotes have what two litters a year? :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on February 24, 2017, 08:34:44 PM
Post by: idaho guy on February 24, 2017, 08:49:45 PM
QuoteHonestly, I believe coyotes are the most harmful predator in the State. Knock them way back and you're going to see fawn survival multiply like you won't believe and bird hunting will vastly improve. Most people don't realize the chunk of fawns taken out of the herd by coyotes.
I believe this is a true statement. Yes, it helps that coyotes are in every area of the state. There is a whole bunch of E. Wa that doesn't have much for bears or cougars. That being said, there is an area I know that the first fall I was there I saw 18 does come out to a field and not a fawn with them. 60 coyotes a year later, and fawns are the norm again.
60 coyotes later ? Did you kill 60 coyotes on that property in 1 year? If so that's awesome ! :tup: :sry: I might want to coyote hunt with you lol
Post by: Gringo31 on February 25, 2017, 08:14:29 AM
Quote
The voucher idea would kill hunting in this state.
Many years ago the state did a survey of hunters. What was important to them.
The vast majority placed hunting with family or friends higher than harvesting a animal.
The point idea might work keeps all in the game.
But I do t believe hunters with current rules can even make a dent in yote population.
You still have to have time to hunt. Most guys exhaust any time they have on bear,deer,elk maybe some birds. All the points in the world won't get the boss to give you more time off. Than throw in family obligations.
Yotes have what two litters a year?
I disagree with most of this. That "survey" was a bunch of crap. Top outdoor activity for us Washingtonians as I recall was "gardening". :yike: :hello: Out of touch much?
I believe and know some land owners who will go a few years "leaving the coyotes alone". In time, they get fed up with them and decide enough is enough and start putting some pressure on them and see good results.
Today is the perfect time of the year to make an impact. They are paired up and defending denning sites. Just last week at 9 pm I had a yote challenge barking my house 100 yards away. Silly rabbit :chuckle: make better choices :chuckle:
And BTW, yotes only have one litter a year.
Post by: konradcountry on February 25, 2017, 06:52:28 PM
1. This year I already plan on hunting coyote, deer and bear. So if you now give me a free deer tag for hunting coyotes that is lost revenue since you gave me a free tag for something I already planned on doing. I would suspect a lot of predator hunters fall into this category because it isn't done to fill the freezer and there are obviously costs involved. So you could end up with a revenue hole if enough predator hunters had already planned on buying those tags. There are also farmers that shoot them all the time and now they get free tags.
2. The coyote problem varies by county and is complicated by local laws. There are rural areas of Pierce where you can own 20 acres of woods but you can't shoot coyotes with a gun because of the firearm restrictions. So some areas are basically coyote breeding grounds and they will keep spilling into nearby GMUs.
Some people have suggested a contest like in other states but I don't see that going well with King county voters. They are very emotional voters and it could spark legislation like the previous ballot ban on bear baiting and certain traps.
As someone else said predator hunting is getting more popular. What I would like to see is an extended season on cougar and bear since dogs and baiting aren't allowed. Cougar should be pretty open since it is a lotto anyways.
Post by: KFhunter on February 25, 2017, 07:02:03 PM
I bumped this 3.5 year old thread because of Georgia, their state wildlife agency is running a coyote contest offering up a chance to win a lifetime hunting license!
Post by: garrett89 on February 28, 2017, 12:46:06 PM
If I had my way, I'd make better use of hunters in managing herds.Wolf should be a standard issue for $10-20 unlimited amount like coyote. Just saying.
via a voucher system :chuckle: :tup:
If you want to hunt ungulates, you got to do your part.
How it works; (the amounts and such are for illustration purposes and would vary depending on location and herd quality)
1 coyote will get you a standard deer voucher, with that voucher you can buy a standard OTC deer tag.
5 coyote = Elk OTC (spike only) voucher
1 bear = Elk voucher + Deer voucher (standard OTC type tags).
1 Cougar = Quality Elk + deer voucher
5 Cougar = star voucher (can't sell) for standard tags, but not quality tags (true spikes)
1 wolf = Quality any bull any method Elk tag + deer
5 wolves = star voucher for life for standard tags (can't sell) but not quality tags (true spikes).
This will slow down the number of ungulate hunters and dramatically increase the predator hunting going on = bigger better herds.
right now there is zero incentive for people to go wack a yote, bear cat etc.
Here's the kicker, you can buy vouchers from other hunters! So you get a very successful coyote hunter he/she could sell those vouchers. It wouldn't be a "bounty" that way nor would it make use of tax payer funds.
edit:
This voucher system won't work, but there's some good discussion so read through and if you have a good idea let's hear it!