Post by: pashok23 on September 21, 2013, 10:16:59 PM
Post by: j_h_nimrod on September 21, 2013, 10:21:42 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 21, 2013, 10:55:47 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 21, 2013, 11:22:38 PM
Post by: mazama on September 22, 2013, 09:20:25 AM
Post by: ghosthunter on September 22, 2013, 09:35:12 AM
Carry a pistol.:yeah:
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 22, 2013, 09:47:34 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 22, 2013, 10:06:49 AM
I'm not sure I'd do that. While it's true that there's no law that says you can't carry a rifle during deer season unless you have a license and tag, in my opinion it would look really suspicious. It would be based solely on an officer's discretion, but I think it's likely that he could get cited for hunting deer without a license and tag.
I would say that is a very real possibility. If you are hunting and he is with you and armed with a rifle, you guys would be hard pressed to convince anyone he isn't hunting as well, regardless of what is really happening.
They will likely take action based on what it appears is happening, and the old "Tell it the Judge," will apply.
He may have a chance if the rifle were cased and not readily gotten to as a hunter would have it if game were suddenly seen, but then cased and out of easy reach defeats his need to have it ready for protection.
Post by: 12Gauge on September 22, 2013, 10:12:47 AM
It would be best for him to carry a pistol for personal protection. Also consider the pistol being carried, a S&W .500 would look very suspicious.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on September 22, 2013, 10:30:37 AM
It would be best for him to carry a pistol for personal protection. Also consider the pistol being carried, a S&W .500 would look very suspicious.
If I were really concerned with personal protection in the woods, and did not grab a rifle instead, my .500 would be high on my list to grab.
Post by: Hunterman on September 22, 2013, 10:31:45 AM
By the way. If you have a rifle why does your Uncle need one for protection? Doesn't he trust you shooting ability to protect everyone?
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: notellumcreek on September 22, 2013, 10:37:53 AM
By the way. If you have a rifle why does your Uncle need one for protection? Doesn't he trust you shooting ability to protect everyone?
Hunterman(Tony)
:yeah:
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 22, 2013, 10:57:44 AM
I have to laugh at all this. Guilty until proven innocent. By most of your reasoning anyone in the woods during season (or I guess anytime really) looks suspicious and would likely be cited as hunting without a license, out of season, etc.
It would be best for him to carry a pistol for personal protection. Also consider the pistol being carried, a S&W .500 would look very suspicious.
If I were really concerned with personal protection in the woods, and did not grab a rifle instead, my .500 would be high on my list to grab.
Sad to say, but that is a very likely outcome during modern firearm seasons and when accompaning someone who is in the act of hunting.
If it was enclosed in a case, locked in a trunk or some other way not easily brought into action if game were seen, you are right, there probably wouldn't be any issue.
Very few poachers are caught red-handed, in the act. It boils down to, is it worth the risk of being ticketed?
Here is another side to consider:
My out of state uncle wants to shoot a Blacktail, but doesn't want to buy an expensive, non-resident tag & license.
A. He has his own weapon, therefore has the ability to do so. Hard to defend against if challenged.
B. He uses the licensed hunter's rifle and shoots it on the nephew's lic & tag. Easiler to defend if not in possession of his own weapon and not actually seen doing the shooting.
NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT IS INTENDED ON HAPPENING!
But look at it from an outside perspective, ie WDFW. He/she has two armed people, in the woods during hunting season, one licensed and one not.
Since we all know, people who commit ot attempt to commit crimes readily admit what they did or are planning to do when asked by a LEO, clearly there is no reason for the LEO to doubt your story that he is not hunting, but just wants it for protection?
If you feel it is not an issue, then no worries, good luck and hope you are right. But consider the position you could be putting your uncle in if you are wrong, then act accordingly.
Post by: lokidog on September 22, 2013, 11:03:43 AM
I have to laugh at all this. Guilty until proven innocent. By most of your reasoning anyone in the woods during season (or I guess anytime really) looks suspicious and would likely be cited as hunting without a license, out of season, etc.
It would be best for him to carry a pistol for personal protection. Also consider the pistol being carried, a S&W .500 would look very suspicious.
If I were really concerned with personal protection in the woods, and did not grab a rifle instead, my .500 would be high on my list to grab.
Unfortunately, that is how it appears that WDFW wardens work. Given that, and it does look slightly suspicious (maybe different if we had grizzlies to worry about?), I would not have one of my friends carry a rifle that did not have a tag. However, as another poster mentioned F them if they try to write me a ticket for "spotlighting" for having one in my truck that they have not seen me use or that I am using to fix a flat or something and happen to still have my rifle in the truck. :twocents:
Post by: j_h_nimrod on September 22, 2013, 11:32:31 AM
The point I am making is that there is no regulation prohibiting it so the LEO has no grounds for issuing a ticket unless there is further evidence supporting a violation. There are regulations (in some places, not sure in WA and don't feel like looking right now) against possessing a spotlight on your person or in the vehicle during a big game season so thereby that would be a violation even if it were a broken light.
I am just saying that in this case the burden of proof is sadly lacking and if the LEO were to make an issue of it and they were not a reasonable (reasoning) person issued a ticket then it should be an easy dismissal. At that point I am not sure what recourse is available for the wronged party (non-hunting gun bearer) but imagine there is something. Though the legal umbrella LEOs carry is pretty big so there is probably little retribution that could be obtained.
It is kind of like saying that you head out in the boat fishing with a non-fishing friend and they get cited for fishing without a license because there is an extra rod in the boat.
Post by: Hunterman on September 22, 2013, 11:46:09 AM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: Hunterman on September 22, 2013, 11:52:10 AM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: pashok23 on September 22, 2013, 12:58:30 PM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 22, 2013, 12:59:07 PM
Just so it is clear, I am playing the devils advocate here. I personally would not carry a rifle if I were along for someone else's hunt and did not have a license for something to hunt. I may carry a pistol but that would depend.
The point I am making is that there is no regulation prohibiting it so the LEO has no grounds for issuing a ticket unless there is further evidence supporting a violation. There are regulations (in some places, not sure in WA and don't feel like looking right now) against possessing a spotlight on your person or in the vehicle during a big game season so thereby that would be a violation even if it were a broken light.
I am just saying that in this case the burden of proof is sadly lacking and if the LEO were to make an issue of it and they were not a reasonable (reasoning) person issued a ticket then it should be an easy dismissal. At that point I am not sure what recourse is available for the wronged party (non-hunting gun bearer) but imagine there is something. Though the legal umbrella LEOs carry is pretty big so there is probably little retribution that could be obtained.
It is kind of like saying that you head out in the boat fishing with a non-fishing friend and they get cited for fishing without a license because there is an extra rod in the boat.
Agreed in principle, but in the field on the side of the road, not likely to get reasoned out that way given WDFW's "write'em like they see'em" point of view.
More likely the "tell it to the Judge" and rifle or rifles taken, here are your citation(s) and court date(s)secenario, then your out of state uncle either has to stay here for months to resolve it, travel back & forth to resolve or just give up and take the loss, which depending on his resident state, may loose hunting prividledges there as well. And that isn't counting the dollars towards an atty.
Read through some of RTSpring's threads about his encounter and the time and costs and losses, then see if it really is worth the risk.
Is it really worth all that potential trouble for your uncle, not to mention, since he is with you, you potentially could be charged with Aiding and Abbetting.
Post by: pashok23 on September 22, 2013, 01:27:41 PM