Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: Button Nubbs on September 29, 2013, 09:30:54 AM

Title: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 29, 2013, 09:30:54 AM: [Smg id=12155]

First season muzzleloading and I Shot a deer last night at 5 yards. Bullet hit the front rib and exploded. No blood on the ground, had to bust brush in a monsoon to find it. 85 grains of 777 Ffg. What the hell?
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 29, 2013, 09:34:34 AM: O.K man ... Thanks for the post but I want to see the deer :dunno: :o :chuckle: Yeah sometimes a guy gets to close and all that muzzle velocity does a number on its victim.... :dunno:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: jrebel on September 29, 2013, 09:38:34 AM: Never used a powerbelt....so can't help you, but would love to see a pic of the deer.

Sounds like you got a recovery congrats :tup: :tup:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: sirmissalot on September 29, 2013, 09:45:48 AM: Can't see the pic for some reason, but a 5 yard shot is impressive! I'll bet an exploding bullet at that distance made a mess of the insides.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Mfowl on September 29, 2013, 09:47:52 AM: There has been many posts about Powerbelts performing at the range but failing on animals. It seems that the bullet fragmenting instead of mushrooming on impact is pretty common. Looks like you got to learn first hand. Glad you recovered your deer!
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: bare.hunter on September 29, 2013, 09:48:58 AM: had that same problem on a deer with the powerbelt lead bullets.I now use bloodline and have had no problem with them.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 29, 2013, 09:52:35 AM: I picked pieces out of the deer I shot with my powerbelt 295 gr hollow points. I did the work though.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: HornHoarder on September 29, 2013, 09:55:19 AM: Powerbelts are junk. After similar experiences I am done with them. They are just to soft.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: bobcat on September 29, 2013, 09:58:29 AM: That's typical performance from a Powerbelt. I wouldn't expect any different results, especially at 5 yards.

Which bullet was it?
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Hunterman on September 29, 2013, 10:11:56 AM: At 15' why didn't you shoot it in the head or neck? At 5 yards you have the full velocity of the projectile. Straight lead will detonate. I've never had a problem with power points out of my .50.

Congrats of getting your deer :tup:

Hunterman(Tony)
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: deerslyr on September 29, 2013, 10:18:17 AM: How did it fail if the deer is dead? Or is it? Maybe the bullet bounced out since there isnt a pic of the deer? :chuckle:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: MountainDevil54 on September 29, 2013, 11:06:44 AM: 5 yards, wow, why not just tape your skinning knife onto a stick and stab it the ol fashion way?

Hard to tell how much weight that bullet retained, but you shot it, you tell us what the results were in the end. Did you lose the deer? Poor blood trail, no internal damage?

All I see is a recovered bullet that seems to have done the job and was under the hide most likely.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Maverick on September 29, 2013, 11:40:16 AM: all ive used for deer is powerbelts the 2 years ive muzzle loaded. 2 shots and 2 deer. they work great for me!
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Hilltop123 on September 29, 2013, 12:01:36 PM: tagging...........
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: snowshoes22 on September 29, 2013, 01:06:36 PM: I went away from the lighter power belts because of that reason. The 245 and 295 have both failed for me. The 338 gr platinums seem to stay together better. I didn't like the 250 gr Hornady SST either. I'm sticking with 300 gr and above for everything from now on. Lesson learned the hard way. I have only shot mule deer with power belts and all needed follow up shots with the lighter bullets even with behind the shoulder hits.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Archery King on September 29, 2013, 03:39:18 PM: Shot 5 elk with 295 grain power belts and 150 grains of powder. Never had one fail, shots from 30 yards to 154. What does the bullet weigh that u recovered?
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 29, 2013, 05:56:07 PM: The picture is of the copper jacket, that's all I recovered, one little piece of lead with it. I don't know how much it weighed but I will say it wasn't anywhere near 295 and probably wasn't even half that. It was the 295 grain hollow point .50. There was zero blood, except for the place the shot occured there were 2 little pieces of meaty stuff. No exit just blood shot the hell out of the opposite rib cage from all the fragments.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: jrebel on September 29, 2013, 05:59:36 PM: Why a hollow point? I would think it did what most hollow points would at that distance / velocity....fragment. :dunno: Never used one for hunting purposes.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 29, 2013, 06:02:48 PM: :dunno: like I said I'm still new, I've always archery hunted. they shot great for me at the range 1 ragged hole at 50. I heard good things about them and bad about the tipped pb's :dunno: still trying to figure it out.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: splitshot on September 29, 2013, 06:05:23 PM: last year I had 120 gr. of 777 but I am going to 100 this year cuz 120 kicked too much. have not shot at a deer yet. mike w
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: jrebel on September 29, 2013, 07:00:06 PM: I hope I didn't come across as being rude in my last post....I definitely am no expert with Muzzleloader bullets. I use and have really good luck with the TC Shockwave 250 and 300 grain bullets out of my 50 cal. I have shot a big cow elk and recovered the bullet...it did the job and appeared to retain most of it's weight. I took a deer last year with the 250 grain at 100 yards and it through and through the deer (avatar pic) and took off the top part of his heart. Great wound channel and that deer did not leak an ounce of blood (in the snow so it would be easy to see) and died 50 yards later at the bottom of the hill. Had it not been so steep I don't think he would have made 50 yards. The only reason I can think it didn't leave a drop of blood, is cause the pump had catastrophic failure. :chuckle: :chuckle:

Long story short I really like the TC Shockwave bullets if you want to try something else.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Button Nubbs on September 29, 2013, 09:18:22 PM: Quote from: jrebel on September 29, 2013, 07:00:06 PM
I hope I didn't come across as being rude in my last post....I definitely am no expert with Muzzleloader bullets. I use and have really good luck with the TC Shockwave 250 and 300 grain bullets out of my 50 cal. I have shot a big cow elk and recovered the bullet...it did the job and appeared to retain most of it's weight. I took a deer last year with the 250 grain at 100 yards and it through and through the deer (avatar pic) and took off the top part of his heart. Great wound channel and that deer did not leak an ounce of blood (in the snow so it would be easy to see) and died 50 yards later at the bottom of the hill. Had it not been so steep I don't think he would have made 50 yards. The only reason I can think it didn't leave a drop of blood, is cause the pump had catastrophic failure. :chuckle: :chuckle:

Long story short I really like the TC Shockwave bullets if you want to try something else.
No harm done :tup: I have some 250 shockwaves and will try those. A friend shot a deer the other day with a hornady great plains bullet and it expanded to an inch and a half... Gonna give those a try also.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: snowshoes22 on September 29, 2013, 10:51:08 PM: I have shot the 460 gr 50 cal. Hornady great plains in my traditions 1:28 twist with great accuracy. Never shot them at game though. They are fairly hard to start but grouped better than most other bullets I have tried.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: whacker1 on September 30, 2013, 06:11:11 AM: I have been impressed with the barnes MZ Expander muzzleloader bullets. They shoot consistently and performed as planned on a deer I shot a few years ago. 100% weight retention and full expansion.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 30, 2013, 09:19:28 AM: I would like to point out that, yes PowerBelts are infamous for this problem but...at 15' nothing performs well :dunno:

My sister shot a deer at 20' with a .25-06 and it wasn't even a pass through but it blew the deer wide open. I don't know how long it takes for a PowerBelt to stabilize in flight but there isn't a bullet in the world that would perform the same at 5 yards vs 50 yards.

Let's see the deer :drool:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: bobcat on September 30, 2013, 10:03:18 AM: Quote
I would like to point out that, yes PowerBelts are infamous for this problem but...at 15' nothing performs well.

A Barnes bullet would be likely to perform well at that distance. As well as a few others.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 30, 2013, 10:26:10 AM: Quote from: bobcat on September 30, 2013, 10:03:18 AM
Quote
I would like to point out that, yes PowerBelts are infamous for this problem but...at 15' nothing performs well.

A Barnes bullet would be likely to perform well at that distance. As well as a few others.

I guess my point was that bullets aren't designed for that distance. Of course a Barnes would perform well but I imagine it would not be peak performance. That's all I meant. :tup:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: j rawl on September 30, 2013, 02:17:52 PM: i shot a big body mule deer at 85 yards laying down, and went through the front shoulders and found the bullet on the hide. i was using 295 grain copper plated powerbelts with 100 grains of powder
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: whacker1 on October 01, 2013, 06:01:58 AM: Quote from: bobcat on September 30, 2013, 10:03:18 AM
Quote
I would like to point out that, yes PowerBelts are infamous for this problem but...at 15' nothing performs well.

A Barnes bullet would be likely to perform well at that distance. As well as a few others.

:yeah:

100% copper means it shouldn't separate unless it breaks pedals off of the expanding portion. Shot a whitetail at 25 yards, and worked as designed. granted the Original poster was much closer.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: hillbilli on October 01, 2013, 07:02:28 AM: Powerbelts are not my first choice, .. and I have read and heard of some dramatic failures- where it hits a shoulder or elk ribs and comes apart and fails to penetrate to the vitals. this however does not sound like quite the same thing- this, it appears, is a failure to EXIT.. if it came apart, as he says (and as the picture shows), but bloodshot the heck out of the OPPOSITE ribs, as he says.. then this bullet DID penetrate enough to destroy vitals and kill the deer- at least that appears to be the case, as there is no mention of a follow up shot. Bullets that come apart, but destroy vitals and fail to exit often dont leave much blood trail, I've seen this even with modern high velocity rifle rounds.. (and how many deer have you seen over the years, hit good-that ran 50-150yds before dropping?) There seems to be a lot of hangup here on the range, but remember with muzzleloaders there is a lot of velocity spread- how much difference do you think there really is in impact velocity between a 40yd shot taken with 150gr of powder and a 5 yds shot taken with 85gr of powder?
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: kerrdog on January 11, 2014, 01:20:44 PM: I'ml offering none of my wisdom until I see a dang deer! :chuckle:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: huntnphool on January 11, 2014, 01:28:43 PM: No issues this year with mine. :dunno:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Damnimissed on January 11, 2014, 06:40:26 PM: They may perform ok if you hit absolutely no bone whatsoever, and at a medium range. I killed a bull this year at about 100 yds with a 348 gr aero tip, and the only reason it went down is because on the second shot I blew his hip out. 3rd shot in the neck at 20 yrs put him down for the count but didnt kill him, and didnt pass through...switching to 300 gr bloodlines this year.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: duckmen1 on January 11, 2014, 07:10:07 PM: I shot a deer at about 50 yards that blew clean through both shoulder bones with a pass through. Dropped in tracks.
Hit a different deer in the shoulder and it made it over 400 yards on to private land.
348 gr all lead powerbelt
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 11, 2014, 07:13:24 PM: I stopped using Powerbelts when I ended the day of hunting with a wet powder charge because they didn't fit tightly in my .54 cal. charcoal burner. Unless I fired a fouling load to dirty up the barrel, they wouldn't even stay in the bore! Switched to T/C lead slugs and never had a problem after that.... :twocents:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: duckmen1 on January 11, 2014, 07:19:13 PM: Also shot 2 other deer both pass throughs and deer went 5 yards and 20 yards.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 12, 2014, 09:05:10 AM: Quote from: Damnimissed on January 11, 2014, 06:40:26 PM
They may perform ok if you hit absolutely no bone whatsoever, and at a medium range. I killed a bull this year at about 100 yds with a 348 gr aero tip, and the only reason it went down is because on the second shot I blew his hip out. 3rd shot in the neck at 20 yrs put him down for the count but didnt kill him, and didnt pass through...switching to 300 gr bloodlines this year.

I blew through both shoulders on a mule deer at 80 yards. Dead on the spot.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Damnimissed on January 12, 2014, 11:13:40 AM: Keep shooting them then. They appeal to the eye, and are easy to load, but I think they're junk, personally. Some of my buddies have had similar experiences with them. Elk are just way to tough of animals to trust a bullet that basically explodes when it hits some bone. I need a tough bullet that has controlled expansion and will stay together. They may be ok for deer, but not a bull elk IMO.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: bobcat on January 12, 2014, 11:21:49 AM: I agree- Powerbelts are too soft for elk. At least the all-lead ones. The copper jacketed Powerbelts might be better but I have no experience with them.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 12, 2014, 01:37:12 PM: Quote from: Damnimissed on January 12, 2014, 11:13:40 AM
Keep shooting them then. They appeal to the eye, and are easy to load, but I think they're junk, personally. Some of my buddies have had similar experiences with them. Elk are just way to tough of animals to trust a bullet that basically explodes when it hits some bone. I need a tough bullet that has controlled expansion and will stay together. They may be ok for deer, but not a bull elk IMO.

I completely agree with you. I have only experienced their performance with deer and black bear. If I muzzleload for elk again, I will go to a solid copper because the vast majority of complaints come from experiences with elk. I'd rather be safe. :tup:

I think I stated earlier that I load with only 90 grains of pyrodex and that may be why mine don't come apart. If I had a high charge I might not have had the success that I've had :dunno:
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: Peregrine on January 12, 2014, 02:04:03 PM: Valuable thread - I'm glad I could read the input from others. I have never used Powerbelts on elk; however, I have had awesome success on deer with the copper plated ballistic tip Powerbelts. Super accurate and great mushrooming regardless of bone, muscle etc. Lead Powerbelts were awful on deer though---no weight retention whatsoever.
Title: Re: powerbelt FAILURE!
Post by: BiggLuke on January 14, 2014, 08:48:41 PM: OP...
This is the reason why I always use solid Lead Powerbelts.