Post by: Band on October 02, 2013, 10:49:26 AM
Dumb question #2: Same "guy" wants to know if handguns come right/left handed like rifles do? :dunno:
Post by: singleshot12 on October 02, 2013, 10:51:19 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 02, 2013, 10:53:48 AM
Post by: JLS on October 02, 2013, 10:54:27 AM
Most pistols are made right handed, but many of the newer ones can be converted so that the magazine release is on the opposite side for lefties.
Post by: Band on October 02, 2013, 10:56:58 AM
Sounds like a dumb guy :dunno: :chuckle:I...uh, I mean he takes offense to that! :chuckle:
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 10:57:47 AM
There are pistols, such as the Glock Gen 4, where the magazine release can be switched to the other side for Left handers. I know a few Left handers that just use their Left pointer finger to drop the mag on 1911's, etc. Takes a little practice but there isn't that much of a difference after a lot of practice.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 02, 2013, 11:03:36 AM
Dumb question #1: "A guy I know" is right handed but shoots a rifle left handed due to left eye dominance. That "guy" believes shooting a handgun right handed but using his left eye to line up the sight might be the way to go. What do you think? :dunno:
Dumb question #2: Same "guy" wants to know if handguns come right/left handed like rifles do? :dunno:
On 1. Hickok45 shoots both hands (primarily right handed) with left eye dominance, even after having shot with the right eye for many years.
FAQ - 33 (Left Eye Dominant 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sXsK9ZQsWE#ws)
Post by: BsB on October 02, 2013, 12:08:40 PM
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
Post by: JLS on October 02, 2013, 12:16:13 PM
Am I the only one that shoots pistols with both eyes open? Anyone else?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
No, I do most all of mine with both eyes open. Same with an M4 carbine at closer ranges.
Post by: Special T on October 02, 2013, 12:16:22 PM
I AM THAT GUY.. I just read an article on this. the best way to shoot RH is to tilt the pistol at a 45deg angle tword the L eye. Not full on sideways gangster style but just rotated. This is supposed to help align the sights better witht the dominat eye. I can shoot either way, ok. I won't be winning any medals but at close distance its acceptable. Hope that helps. :tup:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:11 PM
My brothers wife is going to deer hunt for the first time this year. She is so left eye dominant that I have to blind fold her so that she will keep her right eye open when trying to look threw a scope. It has been a struggle but she is finally coming around and doing well.
Post by: Alchase on October 02, 2013, 12:31:50 PM
Are you shooting for self defense?
Or are you looking to compete, or target shoot.
Multiple approaches depending on what
I shoot both eyes open, this gives you better situational awareness, peripheral vision, and no target lock (tunnel vision on your target) which is the last thing you want in a combat/self defence situation..
I shoot right handed (trigger finger on my right hand, left hand wrapping the right) but left eye dominant.
You focus is the front sight, unless you are point shooting.
If you shoot both eyes open, it should not be a problem as long as you practice often. You can practice your sight picture anywhere (with an empty hand gun of course).
I shoot my TV, the dog, pictures in the house, etc...
It feels weird now, because it is new.
Practice, practice, practice, your sight picture until muscle memory kicks in, and it becomes an extension of your hand.
Post by: coachcw on October 02, 2013, 12:34:16 PM
Post by: Alchase on October 02, 2013, 12:36:14 PM
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 12:50:50 PM
Try it sometime. Cant your pistol shooting strong hand only (it will be more pronounced then using two hands) and watch what the front sight does. It will shoot off to the left (right hand) and it will make a downward arch before returning to the rear notch. After that, shoot it with the sights vertical (still one handed), make sure your elbow is tucked under the pistol. Watch the front sight to see what it does, it lifts and will return right back into the rear notch. That's what you want.
Your splits (time between shots) will be much quicker and much more accurate. You will also find that you won't have to "muscle" the gun as much in recoil in order to get it to return.
For whatever reason i could not view this video.
I AM THAT GUY.. I just read an article on this. the best way to shoot RH is to tilt the pistol at a 45deg angle toward the L eye. Not full on sideways gangster style but just rotated. This is supposed to help align the sights better witht the dominat eye. I can shoot either way, ok. I won't be winning any medals but at close distance its acceptable. Hope that helps. :tup:
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 12:57:05 PM
Because of the tendency to cant when I tried to shoot right handed/left eye, I intensely trained to learn to shoot right handed/right eye, even though I am left eye dominate. It can be done....in about a month.
There is research that eye dominance varies between people though. I may have less dominance then most? I don't know. But, I have a feeling that I have a pretty dominate left eye. I am right handed but bat left, for example.
Post by: Special T on October 02, 2013, 12:59:53 PM
Post by: Special T on October 02, 2013, 01:02:29 PM
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 01:03:39 PM
I agree its best to shoot left handed if that is your dominate eye. If however carrying your pistol RH because of driving, or thats what you got for a holster its an option. Is it the "best" course to take? NO, would it work? Yes. and it does. Not how i'd carry if i had other options...
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 01:05:15 PM
you can teach yourself to shoot with either eye. I can shoot a RH bow but it has to be a lighter poundage and i don't shoot as well.... with out practice. I prefer to do what lakes the least ammount of practice to be acceptable. :twocents:
Post by: headshot5 on October 02, 2013, 01:41:58 PM
Post by: Mongo Hunter on October 02, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 01:52:25 PM
Post by: JLS on October 02, 2013, 01:57:45 PM
After the fundamentals are learned, shooting a pistol is about vision. Both eyes open is far superior.
Very true. The only time one should be closing an eye to shoot handgun is if you are trying to shoot long range, i.e. 50 yards and out and really need that extra front sight focus.
Post by: Yondering on October 02, 2013, 04:12:40 PM
I AM THAT GUY.. I just read an article on this. the best way to shoot RH is to tilt the pistol at a 45deg angle tword the L eye. Not full on sideways gangster style but just rotated.
I call that "half homie". It does work pretty well.
Ideally though, you teach yourself to shoot with either hand and either eye, truly ambidextrous. I am not there yet, my left hand needs a lot more training, and I still have to close my right eye if sighting quickly with my left eye.
Post by: Band on October 02, 2013, 04:20:06 PM
What areSelf defense and a little target shooting.youhe trying to accomplish?
Are you shooting for self defense?
Or are you looking to compete, or target shoot.
Multiple approaches depending on whatyouhe chooses.
I have no practical handgun experience so I'm trying to figure a few things out before making my purchase. I have already determined that I will shoot a handgun with both eyes open just as I do with rifle and bow.
Post by: JLS on October 02, 2013, 04:25:25 PM
What areSelf defense and a little target shooting.youhe trying to accomplish?
Are you shooting for self defense?
Or are you looking to compete, or target shoot.
Multiple approaches depending on whatyouhe chooses.
I have no practical handgun experience so I'm trying to figure a few things out before making my purchase. I have already determined that I will shoot a handgun with both eyes open just as I do with rifle and bow.
Nearly all self defense situations will occur at very close range. Think in the realm of 10-20 feet, possibly less. For this application, don't worry about right hand vs. left hand. Get a handgun, and learn how to focal point shoot. In a self defense situtation at 10 feet, you don't need or want to look at your sights. Do you look at the bead when you shoot ducks? Look at the ball when you throw to 1st base? Look at the football when throwing it?
Develop a solid and repeatable grip on the handgun and you will be able to effectively shoot targets out to 30-40 feet without ever looking at the sights.
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 06:02:48 PM
Sights are a good thing, learn to use them.
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 06:27:41 PM
Post by: Bofire on October 02, 2013, 07:01:10 PM
Carl
Post by: JLS on October 02, 2013, 07:34:36 PM
Sighting the pistol at close range isn't any slower then hosing a target, with practice.
Sights are a good thing, learn to use them.
:rolleyes:
Proper focal point shooting is not hosing the target. If someone can't fire an accurate double tap at a man sized target at 10-20 feet then they need to work on their grip and their stance.
Sights are fine, knowing when you need to use them is even better.
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 07:37:56 PM
Instead of a double tap, think of two controlled, sighted shots, each separate from the other. It is just as fast, if not faster and tons more accurate.
Post by: 300rum on October 02, 2013, 07:40:34 PM
Post by: Band on October 03, 2013, 07:48:28 AM
:)Just buy a glock or something that holds lots of bullets, point it at the sound and close both eyes, shoot til it runs dry, and run.Sounds like great advice. Thanks. :chuckle:
Carl
Post by: JLS on October 03, 2013, 08:18:21 AM
You are rarely able to get a perfect stance and sometimes not even the best grip. A properly fired shot, where you know where the bullet is going before it gets there wins every single time.
FWIW, when I reference stance I am only referring to the shoulders and head. Proper grip and pistol alignment allows you to shoot accurately regardless of what the feet and legs are doing.
I've never advocated an improperly fired shot.
Post by: JLS on October 03, 2013, 08:30:56 AM
Boy, it is crazy what people can miss sometimes....
Instead of a double tap, think of two controlled, sighted shots, each separate from the other. It is just as fast, if not faster and tons more accurate.
Controlled pairs have their place and application, as do double taps.
You can use no sights, flash picture of front sight, flash picture of front and rear sights, and focused sighting. Each has their own application and purpose.
The two things that don't change are a proper grip (either one handed or two handed) and a proper trigger press. This is true regardless of whether you are brace contact shooting, or shooting steel plates at 100 meters.
Post by: 300rum on October 03, 2013, 10:02:05 AM
The fact is though, a properly sighted shot far exceeds any other option. It exceeds everything else in both speed and accuracy which is what we are after, right? While point shooting, indexing, hosing, whatever you call it may do the job some of the time, a properly sighted shot will give you the intended result every single time without giving up any speed. It will also give you the ability to know where the shot will go before the bullet even gets to the target and this is the most important reason to master it. It does take practice but once mastered, it far exceeds any other option.
You are headed the right way though, sometimes I only need to see a portion of my front blade in order to get the intended hit, say at 5-7 yards. At about 10 yards I need to see most of the sight in the rear notch. At 20 Yards, I have to see my front blade and pretty much equal bars of light on each side in order to hit the intended target, say a 6" round circle. At 50 yards I must have a hard front sight focus and pay more attention to the trigger.
The most important part, though, and the reason it far outweighs any other technique is that once the pistol fires, at that exact moment, I can see the sight lift in recoil. At the exact moment the sight lifts in recoil I will know where the bullet will hit on target, if I do my job. On the flip side, I will also know if the shot is errant and will be able to make up that shot. It can be done, for me anyway, in about .12-.18 on close targets, some can do it faster. A full auto M-4 has splits of somewhere around .9-.10, for reference.
Post by: 300rum on October 03, 2013, 10:18:15 AM
Once you can keep your eyes open, watch the front sight through the firing cycle. It may take a while but what you are looking for is the sight lifting in recoil. Try looking "over" the front sight first, that may help. Just fire into a backstop, don't try to sight the pistol on a target just yet.
Eventually, you will see the sight lift at the moment of ignition. At that point your brain has the information it needs, from the feedback provided from the sights, to tell you if your shot was sufficient or errant. With a bit of time and practice, your brain will take a snap shot of the feed back you gained from the shot and will either "call it" an acceptable shot or an errant shot.
As the pistol recoils, the front sight will go up and down. I can see it go up, I lose it for a bit and then pick it up on the way down as it nestles into the rear notch. At this point you can correct the errant shot with another one if you would like. This happens, for me anyway at the fastest of about .12 and on average at about .15 of a second at close range, 5-7 yards. I have seen it done at less then .10 but not on demand.
That is why a sighted shot far outweighs the other examples. You can do it as fast or faster and will know where the bullet will hit before it even gets there. That is why a "double tap" is a lousy way to shoot a pistol. You can shoot a controlled pair just as fast or faster and know where they are before they get there.
Post by: Alchase on October 03, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
A double tap, is nothing but two controlled shots (a controlled group) shot quickly and accurately.
When starting out, grip, trigger control, and sight picture, then re-acquiring your sight picture after the first shot, are more important then hitting your target or speed between shots.
After lots of practice shooting controlled groups, will eventually lead to the ability to perform what most people refer to as double taps "effectively"!
You can not become proficient in double taps without a substantial amount of shooting practice.
Most shooters, who have not been trained, just do not practice enough to become proficient in double taps.
This is also why allot of shooting ranges do not allow Double taps.
The only time I would advocate point shooting over controlled sight shooting, would be under extreme situations, danger close, or on your back, etc.......
For someone just starting out, grip, sight picture, trigger control, are the foundation for controlled groups. Everything else comes from these.
And putting lots of ammo down range.
Band, if you have access to an outdoor range, or an indoor range that will let you move your targets to withing 2-3 yards, 5 at most (most ranges the close target line is set at 10 or 15 yards) shoot starting with controlled groups of two, then three, five. Once you are comfortable shooting controlled groups at that distance, then move to 10, start over with controlled groups etc...
Dry firing(depending on your weapon of choice) is an excellent way to practice grip, sight picture, and trigger control when you can not get to the range.
Post by: 300rum on October 03, 2013, 02:26:11 PM
Then "point shooting" became popular and then it was, "point or index your pistol on the target with out using your sights and pull the trigger fast twice". That was even worse.
Two individual, sighted shots on the same target is the way to go, always. I guess you could call it a "controlled pair" or something like that but what it is, is two separate sighted shots that are entirely different from each other.
The importance in the differentiation is that I am never really approaching a target for a "controlled pair". I am approaching the target in order to shoot it as many times as I need to, if I miss, I want to pick that shot up as quickly as possible. That is why knowing how to "call your shots" is imperative. If I need to shoot twice, I shoot twice and move along. If I shoot twice and see a miss, my follow up shot is immediate and repeated as needed.
Post by: Alchase on October 04, 2013, 11:55:58 AM
Recoil prevents this.
A double tap or controlled pair is a shooting technique where two well-aimed shots are fired at the same target with very little time in between shots.[1][2] Instruction and practice of the double-tap improves overall accuracy as shooters often do not have the gun fully extended on the first shot meaning the second of a double-tap is usually the better.