Post by: wooltie on October 16, 2013, 09:34:48 AM
I just bought a second rifle for my boy which needs a scope. I am thinking of putting my current scope on my son's rifle and upgrading to a better scope for my rifle. I am wondering if a Loop or Monarch is worth the $300-350 vs. $150-200 for a Prostaff, Buckmaster, Redfield or something similar, given my needs.
I want 300 yd shot capability, but most shots will be 50-200 yards.
1. Browning .30-06 w/3x9x40 Redfield Revolution; will use for elk out to 300 yds.
2. Savage Axis .243 needs glass. Used for deer out to 300 yds.
Post by: bullcanyon on October 16, 2013, 09:39:09 AM
Post by: Mike450r on October 16, 2013, 09:39:22 AM
Post by: jrebel on October 16, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
I believe that the glass on a rifle is more important than the rifle itself....especially when you are talking youth and women shooters. I say this cause they are very impressionable and a bad experience will potentially ruin them. If your scope is working for you leave it be. Buy the best scope you can afford for you child; one with great eye relieve and very clear glass. I am a huge fan of leupold....you won't go wrong. You can buy the rifleman for 200-300 dollars and it will seriously last a lifetime.
Story to back up my beliefs. I bought my wife a nice rifle in .243 caliber. At the time we did not have a ton of disposable funds so I bought a Nikon Monarch scope for 150 dollars (good scope, just not great). First day out, it is cold and raining hard. We get her on a really nice buck and her scope is fogged up. She also had a hard time with the limited eye relief and long story short she was extremely frustrated. We worked through the problems and she did harvest the buck, but not before being breaking down and almost not shooting again. Immediately after getting home I topped her rifle with a leupold and have never had that problem again.
Buy the best glass you can and put it on your sons rifle. :tup:
Post by: jrebel on October 16, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
Post by: buckfvr on October 16, 2013, 09:55:00 AM
Post by: Bob33 on October 16, 2013, 09:57:56 AM
If I can’t find game (binoculars), determine how far it is (rangefinder), or assess its legal and trophy characteristics (spotting scope), then a good riflescope is meaningless.
As long as the scope is waterproof and doesn’t shift point of impact, you should be fine with most of the makes and models. You don’t need lots of magnification or massive tubes to see game at reasonable distances during legal shooting hours. A 3-9 or 4-12 power scope should work well under the vast majority of situations. If you need something special or high end to see game in low light, then it’s probably too dark to ethically shoot anyway since you may have to track it in the dark to find it.
Customer service with Leupold is second to none. Nikon optics are good and they generally have good customer service. Vortex customer service is great, and they have lots of product lines that should suit your budget and requirements. :twocents:
Post by: wooltie on October 16, 2013, 04:43:31 PM
The Redfield works fine on my Browning; I just thought about putting that on the Axis and upgrading to a VX-II. I do not doubt that a VX-II is better is some respects than say the Vortex or Nikon mid-range models ($150-200 models). I just question whether it is worth double the $ when taking a 100-200 yd shot.
Post by: jrebel on October 16, 2013, 04:50:28 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I don't require the best is light transmission, or the best in clarity. Rather I want a scope that can withstand a few drops, some dirt, some debris, holds a zero and provides mid range light / clarity. I realize light / clarity are subjective judgments.
The Redfield works fine on my Browning; I just thought about putting that on the Axis and upgrading to a VX-II. I do not doubt that a VX-II is better is some respects than say the Vortex or Nikon mid-range models ($150-200 models). I just question whether it is worth double the $ when taking a 100-200 yd shot.
Worth every penny......if you are on a budget by a vx 1 or a rifleman. Same price as your vortex or Nikon and twice the scope. I just bought vx1 4x12x40 with Leopold lense covers foe 250.
I have and do own Nikon red field vortex and Leopold and leupold is the only way to go.
Post by: baker5150 on October 16, 2013, 04:54:24 PM
I love them both, the VX-II does have better light transmission, but otherwise I can't decide which I like better.
You can't go wrong with the redfield, especially if price is an issue.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on October 16, 2013, 04:54:38 PM
Post by: littlemac on October 16, 2013, 05:01:04 PM
This gun and scope have been "used" every season and hunted hard. Banged around in Jeeps and trucks to and from hunts and travelled to the Yukon and Manitoba multiple times.
That thing still drives tight groups and is everybit as good as new. I couldn't give it higher marks and have them on my 340 and 378 as well. Leupold makes a great product and to me is well worth the money.
Post by: Wacenturion on October 16, 2013, 09:49:28 PM
Everytime I throw a Leupold up I have to move to get a full view. With my Nikons....it's instant. They are also clearer and brighter in my opinion. But in all fairness....that's my vision. Others may or may not agree. Leave it to your son. He's the one that will be throwing it up and looking through it. :twocents:
Post by: JJB11B on October 16, 2013, 10:08:19 PM
Vortex diamondback is a good scope for the price.can't go wrong with vortex. Clearest glass I've ever seen I own 3. A diamondback a crossfire and a viper. Next one will be the razor
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Post by: JJB11B on October 16, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
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Post by: thinkingman on October 17, 2013, 11:00:13 AM
Might want to take your son scope shopping. Everyone sees things differently. As much as I have tried to like Leupold scopes, I just won't buy one. Recently had a nice NIB FX 4x33 I was going to use, but sold it and bought another Nikon Monarch.Absolutely agree.
Everytime I throw a Leupold up I have to move to get a full view. With my Nikons....it's instant. They are also clearer and brighter in my opinion. But in all fairness....that's my vision. Others may or may not agree. Leave it to your son. He's the one that will be throwing it up and looking through it. :twocents:
VX1 and Rifleman are not even worthy of the Leupy gold ring.
Here is a consensus I've posted before.....http://www.opticstalk.com/topic16515.html
(http://www.opticstalk.com/topic16515.html)
Post by: lostbackpacker on October 17, 2013, 11:03:46 AM
bought mine last year at cabelas. was able to use some of my points which brought it down to 325.00 plus tax. heck of a scope for the price. i think they normally retail for 499.00
Post by: jrebel on October 17, 2013, 11:24:32 AM
Might want to take your son scope shopping. Everyone sees things differently. As much as I have tried to like Leupold scopes, I just won't buy one. Recently had a nice NIB FX 4x33 I was going to use, but sold it and bought another Nikon Monarch.Absolutely agree.
Everytime I throw a Leupold up I have to move to get a full view. With my Nikons....it's instant. They are also clearer and brighter in my opinion. But in all fairness....that's my vision. Others may or may not agree. Leave it to your son. He's the one that will be throwing it up and looking through it. :twocents:
VX1 and Rifleman are not even worthy of the Leupy gold ring.
Here is a consensus I've posted before.....http://www.opticstalk.com/topic16515.html
(http://www.opticstalk.com/topic16515.html)
I am not sure I understand your link. You post the criteria that they were supposedly scored by, but then you don't show how each scope scored in each criteria. Maybe I am missing something, but seems like this is not a great way to make a point if you are using facts (scoring criteria). Again maybe I missed something. :dunno:
I also don't agree with the rifleman / vx1 statement. It is Leupolds economical product that will stand the test of time. Obviously you can't compare the vx1 with the vx2/3/7 etc.....but if you compare it to others in the same price range it is (in my humble opinion) one of the nicest scopes you can find. Glass is great, warranty is great, durability is great, eye relief is better than most......My only complaint is they do not have the "click" dial on their turrets....but they are still 1/4 MOA dials. For most that sight their scope in and do not use turrets for adjusted range/windage (just use hold over) they work fine. To say they are not worthy of the Gold Ring is kind of silly. A $200 3x9x40 rifleman is money well spent when comparing it to a $200 bushnell banner, Nikon prostaff, Votex diamondback or crossfire. Not even in the same ballfield...again in my humble opinion and I have owned and shot all of the above.
Post by: Taco280AI on October 17, 2013, 11:33:39 AM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,136354.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,136354.0.html)
Post by: Buzz2401 on October 17, 2013, 11:55:43 AM
Post by: jrebel on October 17, 2013, 11:56:51 AM
I'd go with a redfield revolution. Made in USA and very affordable. Optical quality is very good for the price.
Is redfield now made / owned by Luepold? I thought I heard that somewhere??
Post by: Pathfinder101 on October 17, 2013, 12:56:50 PM
I'd go with a redfield revolution. Made in USA and very affordable. Optical quality is very good for the price.
Is redfield now made / owned by Luepold? I thought I heard that somewhere??
That is true. Basically, a Redfield is virtually the same scope as a Leupy VXI. I put one on my backup rifle (300 Wby Mag). It seems to be no different than the VXI I have on my son's rifle.
Post by: thinkingman on October 17, 2013, 03:02:15 PM
This is what I see....Might want to take your son scope shopping. Everyone sees things differently. As much as I have tried to like Leupold scopes, I just won't buy one. Recently had a nice NIB FX 4x33 I was going to use, but sold it and bought another Nikon Monarch.Absolutely agree.
Everytime I throw a Leupold up I have to move to get a full view. With my Nikons....it's instant. They are also clearer and brighter in my opinion. But in all fairness....that's my vision. Others may or may not agree. Leave it to your son. He's the one that will be throwing it up and looking through it. :twocents:
VX1 and Rifleman are not even worthy of the Leupy gold ring.
Here is a consensus I've posted before.....http://www.opticstalk.com/topic16515.html
(http://www.opticstalk.com/topic16515.html)
I am not sure I understand your link. You post the criteria that they were supposedly scored by, but then you don't show how each scope scored in each criteria. Maybe I am missing something, but seems like this is not a great way to make a point if you are using facts (scoring criteria). Again maybe I missed something. :dunno:
I also don't agree with the rifleman / vx1 statement. It is Leupolds economical product that will stand the test of time. Obviously you can't compare the vx1 with the vx2/3/7 etc.....but if you compare it to others in the same price range it is (in my humble opinion) one of the nicest scopes you can find. Glass is great, warranty is great, durability is great, eye relief is better than most......My only complaint is they do not have the "click" dial on their turrets....but they are still 1/4 MOA dials. For most that sight their scope in and do not use turrets for adjusted range/windage (just use hold over) they work fine. To say they are not worthy of the Gold Ring is kind of silly. A $200 3x9x40 rifleman is money well spent when comparing it to a $200 bushnell banner, Nikon prostaff, Votex diamondback or crossfire. Not even in the same ballfield...again in my humble opinion and I have owned and shot all of the above.
The scale below was formed by SWFA sales staff, customer service, pro-staff and owners using personal experience, customer input and facts supplied by the manufacturers. The ranking system is based on the following criteria.
51% Optical Quality - How bright and clear the scope is.
15% Specifications - Field of view, eye relief, weight, adjustment travel, etc.
15% Durability - How do they with stand the test of time.
12% Special Features & Options - Proprietary items (reticles, design, turrets), Zoom ratio.
7% Warranty & Customer Service - How good are they.
0% Value - Bang for your buck. This criteria has been removed due to O.T. member input.
In order to maintain the scale's simplicity we are not listing every single manufacture and only major manufactures will have several of their brands listed. This scale also does not have discontinued brands or products like the old U.S.A. made Redfields, Japan Tasco or Japan Simmons Aetec. This scale is heavily weighted toward HUNTING as being the application the scope will be used for.
This scale will be kept current with changes that the manufacturers are making that affect their rank. Many of the lower end companies have been bought and sold a lot recently and while the names have stayed the same......the product has not.
2009 Riflescope Rating Scale
Leica ER, Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory
Kahles C - CL & CSX, Premier Reticle, Schmidt & Bender
Kahles KX, U.S. Optics, Swarovski PH & American Lightweight
Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce NXS, IOR Valdada, Vortex Razor
Bushnell Elite 4200, Leupold VX-3, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest
Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Meopta, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII & S2 Big Sky, Vortex Viper
Burris Black Diamond Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Pentax Lightseeker, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam
Bushnell Elite 3200, Leupold VX-II, Millet Tactical/Buck Gold, Nikko Stirling, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex Crossfire & Diamondback, Super Sniper Fixed
Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Leatherwood, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons
Barska, Sightmark, Swift, Truglo
BSA, Tasco, Yukon
ATN, Leapers, NcStar
Edited by Chris Farris - April/05/2009 at 14:51
Leupold VX1 is dark and fuzzy when mounted next to a Burris Fullfield II on the same rifle stock.
Burris is a US company, though that particular model is not made on US soil.
Nikon Buckmaster, is another that compares favorably with Leupold.
Bushnell Elite 4200, Nikon Monarch, Zeiss Conquest all blow them out of the water....And are less likely to need that legendary warranty service.
Post by: jrebel on October 17, 2013, 03:22:48 PM
Correct?? Again maybe I am missing something, but this article / posting does not tell me much as it is posted.
Post by: thinkingman on October 17, 2013, 03:42:49 PM
Yeah, I saw the same thing....and it tells me nothing. It is a scale that was used and then a placing. It shows nothing about how they scored individually. So if the Leupold shores high in one category and low in another making its overall score low...then I would like to see it. Otherwise the article is useless......It is nothing more than an opinion of the authors that wrote the article.To me, it shows a stack-ranking of various scope lines based on input from readers of the Opticstalk forum.
Correct?? Again maybe I am missing something, but this article / posting does not tell me much as it is posted.
They use a wide variety of optics and form opinions on who likes what.
It shows a consensus on the attributes of various scopes.
Here is another respected optic authority....Maybe you will find his evaluations more enlightening.....http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=623 (http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=623)
Post by: Bob33 on October 17, 2013, 04:13:47 PM
If glass were all that matters, then I wouldn't own any Leupold scopes. Durability, repeatability, waterproofness, and customer service all matter. In these areas Leupold scores very well.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 17, 2013, 04:38:51 PM
I've had zero problems with any of them. They do the job and that's what counts to me.
Post by: lostbackpacker on October 17, 2013, 04:43:22 PM
[/quote]
Take this for what it's worth. I haven't had issues with any other scopes except for Leupold. And, yes, they were very nice about handling the issues. but my other scopes, Zeiss, have not had any problems at all. :twocents:
Post by: thinkingman on October 18, 2013, 09:35:18 AM
I have Pentax, Leupold, Millett, Nikon, Tasco and Bushnell scopes on my guns. I have more Pentax than any others.Many Pentax are re-labeled Burris and are very good.
I've had zero problems with any of them. They do the job and that's what counts to me.