Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: hntrspud on October 16, 2013, 10:35:39 AM
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Friday I set out to go over to Winchester for the opener. Had all my gear, just cleaned my gun the night before and I was chompin at the bit. Saturday morning comes around and the birds are flying pretty good. Shoot a few shells, reload with my kent shells. Some birds come in and first shot BOOM! Bird down, reload, pull the trigger on the second bird and my shotgun kicks and twists at the same time, towards my face, and it sounds like someone shot next to my ear. All of this happened in mere seconds. I am disoriented, but still have the sense to look at the gun. Shell mangled, gun pieces hit the water, forarm of gun shoved back into my finger and cut it wide open. Blood all over the boat. I check myself, namely the right side of my face where I felt powder go by. Other than my finger I am not bleeding. OK, focus, I am at this time across the lake from the other guy I was hunting with. So I immediatly motor over, not caring about anything but my safety at this point, to the other shore. Holy cow he sais, get up here now!! So I get out of my sneak boat and we walk to meet each other. He checks me all out and makes sure I am ok. Sits me down in a chair, gets me some water and a cigar. He takes my gun apart piece by piece taking pics the whole time. It seems my first shot went just fine, but the wad from the second shot got stuck at the end of the barrel and sent all the backpressure towards me! :yike: All I have to say for now, is that I am ok, I am alive to see my family another day. My gun is toast, completely destroyed the trigger parts, forearm, and the flap, I forget what its called, is bent down and out of my gun. Pls, no matter how safe you are, things can always happen in a split second that can change things for good. PLS, PLS be careful out there. This could have been alot worse. Guns are replacable, I am not.
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Glad you're okay. That is crazy.
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HOLY CRAP!!
Glad you are OK.
I had a Mossberg 9200 auto do that to me a few years ago and it went to pieces, yours held together very well.
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damn! Glad you're OK.
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glad you're okay. i have had a failure similar to that. someone must love us
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Holy cow! That's crazy.
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Factory choke?
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Factory choke?
Yes. And it was tight too
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yikes.
It only takes once but glad you have a few of your 9 lives left.
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I'm assuming you "reloaded your gun" with Kent factory ammo. I'd send that picture to them and ask if their shells are supposed to do that.
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I'm assuming you "reloaded your gun" with Kent factory ammo. I'd send that picture to them and ask if their shells are supposed to do that.
You are correct. Kent factory ammo. We are in communication
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Holy Crap! That is gnarly glad you are all good.
So stupid question was it the gun or the load that caused this? What load were you shooting? I usually shoot Kent as well...
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Wow. Scary stuff. What model gun is that?
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Glad you were not hurt worse.
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Well first things first, glad you are safe and in one piece.
Never have I seen that happen. Are you 100% certain that a wad lodged in the choke of that gun caused that much back pressure? The reason I ask is that for all that gas to come back to you you need a blockage and a wad should not be a strong enough blockage. By the very design wads are made to travel down the barrel and exit. Not sure of the make of gun you are shooting but if it is a gas powered auto I would definitely have a good gunsmith check your gas system out thoroughly. If it is a pump then I wouldn't even speculate as to the cause.
The choke was still tight, the barrel was clean, and no obstructions. You can see that the wad never came out of the barrel.
Holy Crap! That is gnarly glad you are all good.
So stupid question was it the gun or the load that caused this? What load were you shooting? I usually shoot Kent as well...
I shot a remington 870 supermag. The load is what caused it. Kent 3" #2's.
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Had similar thing happen to a buddy I was hunting with. He had a Browning and was shoot blind side ammo . His didn't do as much damage but had one he'll of a time getting the wad out of the middle of his barrel
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I had the wad stick in the barrel of my gun once. I caught it before I chambered another round though. I was using remington shells. I had bought a case of them that year and had 21 of them fail. 7 in one day. But all but that one had ejected the wad. I will not use remington shells ever again. Surprising that was with Kent's- I have always had good luck with Kent's. Glad you are relatively ok- very scary situation for sure. Good thing your partner was not immediately to your right.
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Well first things first, glad you are safe and in one piece.
Never have I seen that happen. Are you 100% certain that a wad lodged in the choke of that gun caused that much back pressure? The reason I ask is that for all that gas to come back to you you need a blockage and a wad should not be a strong enough blockage. By the very design wads are made to travel down the barrel and exit. Not sure of the make of gun you are shooting but if it is a gas powered auto I would definitely have a good gunsmith check your gas system out thoroughly. If it is a pump then I wouldn't even speculate as to the cause.
If pump maybe some how the gun fired before chamber fully closed?
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Well first things first, glad you are safe and in one piece.
Never have I seen that happen. Are you 100% certain that a wad lodged in the choke of that gun caused that much back pressure? The reason I ask is that for all that gas to come back to you you need a blockage and a wad should not be a strong enough blockage. By the very design wads are made to travel down the barrel and exit. Not sure of the make of gun you are shooting but if it is a gas powered auto I would definitely have a good gunsmith check your gas system out thoroughly. If it is a pump then I wouldn't even speculate as to the cause.
If pump maybe some how the gun fired before chamber fully closed?
That’s a more feasible explanation than the wad sticking. The photo shows the bolt partially open like it wasn’t fully in battery when it fired blowing the bolt back and extruding the shell.
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so out of all the people that had this similar thing happen, how much were using semi-autos? I've had my pump Mossberg 500 go off before the bolt was fully closed, and it gets the forgrip stuck way back.
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so out of all the people that had this similar thing happen, how much were using semi-autos? I've had my pump Mossberg 500 go off before the bolt was fully closed, and it gets the forgrip stuck way back.
Mine was a semi-auto.
Twisted the barrel, destroyed the gas system, bolt was stuck in the rear of the receiver.
Total loss.
I had and x-tra full turkey choke and #2 steel shot.
I used it the season before with no trouble. :dunno:
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Well first things first, glad you are safe and in one piece.
Never have I seen that happen. Are you 100% certain that a wad lodged in the choke of that gun caused that much back pressure? The reason I ask is that for all that gas to come back to you you need a blockage and a wad should not be a strong enough blockage. By the very design wads are made to travel down the barrel and exit. Not sure of the make of gun you are shooting but if it is a gas powered auto I would definitely have a good gunsmith check your gas system out thoroughly. If it is a pump then I wouldn't even speculate as to the cause.
If pump maybe some how the gun fired before chamber fully closed?
That’s a more feasible explanation than the wad sticking. The photo shows the bolt partially open like it wasn’t fully in battery when it fired blowing the bolt back and extruding the shell.
Which is odd because the shots were not close together and I felt the forearm stop when going forward.
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Glad ur ok. Now go Get another gun n let's go shoot some birds!!
Pete
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Glad ur ok. Now go Get another gun n let's go shoot some birds!!
Pete
Amen!
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so out of all the people that had this similar thing happen, how much were using semi-autos? I've had my pump Mossberg 500 go off before the bolt was fully closed, and it gets the forgrip stuck way back.
Mine was a semi-auto.
Twisted the barrel, destroyed the gas system, bolt was stuck in the rear of the receiver.
Total loss.
I had and x-tra full turkey choke and #2 steel shot.
I used it the season before with no trouble. :dunno:
was it the same thing? wad stuck in the barrel?
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question for the O.P
was the wad that got stuck from the previous shell or the shell that exploded?
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so out of all the people that had this similar thing happen, how much were using semi-autos? I've had my pump Mossberg 500 go off before the bolt was fully closed, and it gets the forgrip stuck way back.
Mine was a semi-auto.
Twisted the barrel, destroyed the gas system, bolt was stuck in the rear of the receiver.
Total loss.
I had and x-tra full turkey choke and #2 steel shot.
I used it the season before with no trouble. :dunno:
was it the same thing? wad stuck in the barrel?
The barrel was clear. But it could have just barely got out.
The OP's gun was a pump, much stronger in the breach than an auto.
I'm surprised at how well his gun held up compared to what mine did.
I gave the destroyed gun to my hunting partner, I will try and get it from him for some pics on this topic.
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Similar situation in 08. Bennelli Nova pump. The end of the barrel split open, I knew something wasn't right when the shot went almost straight down into the water. Fortunately, checked it right away, and noone got hurt.
Sad part is, it was a buddy's gun that I usually hunted with. Had to call and tell him the news, but Bennelli replaced it, can only assume it was a gun malfunction. :dunno:
Good news that you are okay man, stuff like that can be freaky.
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question for the O.P
was the wad that got stuck from the previous shell or the shell that exploded?
The wad was from the shell that exploded. I am thankful for that. Had it been the other way, it could have been alot worse.
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Glad you were not hurt. Any word from Kent?
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Glad ur ok. Now go Get another gun n let's go shoot some birds!!
Pete
:yeah: :tup: So happy to hear it didn't turn out worse! Let me know what you hear from Kent... I'm a little nervous about my shells now!
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Maybe the shell was a slow burner and went off while it was being ejected? I have had that happen once!
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I have seen 10 or 15 different wads get stuck in barrels at sporting clay shoots. It happens quite a bit with light reloads, but you can usually hear when the wad doesn't exit the barrel. They have a piece of 3/8" dowel at every station just for hang fires. I have never seen any one shoot a second shot behind the stuck wad though, as most are shooting double guns. Glad you were not hurt any worse than you were.
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Curious what choke was the op shooting.
Scary. Glad your ok
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Scary for sure glad you are ok and nobody got hurt
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Curious what choke was the op shooting.
Scary. Glad your ok
Thank you. I was shooting a Remington Mod choke. Stock
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This has me having second thoughts on my kent ammo. Never had a problem with it, other than it can be a little dirty. Interested to hear their response.
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I will not give details other than there customer service has been great. Communication is prompt as well.
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glad to hear you are ok and moving forward. i had problems with kent loads and will not use them anymore. i have friends that swear by them and have nevber had a problem. with as many as they pump out, there are going to be bad ones in the lot. glad to see you are still after it. hope that was an oil experience. good luck, shoot straight
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Thank god you are alright.
Sounds like another Remington moment. The 870's have had countless problems with shells getting stuck in chambers due to rough surfaces from lack of polishing, I wonder if the problem has migrated further down their barrels or even the chokes? Another reason why I won't buy a remington that doesn't say wingmaster on the side.
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..........I knew something wasn't right when the shot went almost straight down into the water..........can only assume it was a gun malfunction. :dunno:
If the shot went to the water, then it wasn't a gun malfunction. It was most likely the shell. If the shot and wad are not packed down onto the powder then there is a gap, and a lot of energy is lost resulting in the shot to come out slow and the wad may not come out of the barrel. If you were to reload a shell leaving a lot of space in the shell, I almost assure you from experience that the wad is going to stay in your barrel even with a cylinder choke.
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So I get out of my sneak boat and we walk to meet each other. He checks me all out and makes sure I am ok. Sits me down in a chair, gets me some water and a cigar.
Thank goodness he brought first aid supplies! :chuckle: :tup:
Seriously, I'm glad you're ok. That sounds really scary.
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Had this happen to me on a trap range a while back. My shot sounded odd and a guy next to me said he saw my pellets go about twenty yards into the grass. Another guy started yelling at me not to shoot as i racked another round in until i check my barrel. Sure enough, the wad was still in it. That duck season, a buddy of mine had bought a brand new shotgun. He also bought some ridiculously cheap shells.
As a flight of ducks rolled in, his first shot had that same thud.
I yelled at him to ceasefire. Everyone gave me a nasty look, but after he checked his barrel, the wad was still in it.
I like to think i saved his gun and possible injury for a couple of ducks.
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This sounds like the first shot left the wad in the choke causing the blow-up. It's quite common. I've seen it at gun clubs I've belonged to over the years either by reloads and even w/factory shells and out hunting. It happens. Most times the shooter or someone next to them realizes the situation and stops the shooter before he/she fires a second shot. Be conscious of this as it DOES happen and could to any of us.
Kent shells: Been shooting them for many years. Great patterning shells. I've had 'duds' from Winchester, Federal and Remington shells besides Kent. Had them from my own reloads too. If you shoot enough, it's going to happen. Pay attention.
I had a Winchester shell shoot the entire plastic hull down the barrel on a Skagit hunt one day. Separated from the brass. It sounded funny so I didn't shoot again. Had to whittle a branch to fit the barrel and drove thru the barrel, driving out the shell with a hammer. Costed me most of the morning but saved my gun.
Taking shells out in the duck marsh time and time again can result in left over shells that have seen a few trips in very wet conditions and can result in 'duds'.
I bought a 1/2" copper pipe filled with lead (fishing weight)(halibut jig maybe) from Sportco a few years back and keep it in my blind bag. Cut the split rings off it and iied a small bright colored cord to the end for finding in the mud after dropping thru the barrel. Perfect for dropping down the barrel to remove obstructions.
Bottom line - pay attention.
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This sounds like the first shot left the wad in the choke causing the blow-up. It's quite common. I've seen it at gun clubs I've belonged to over the years either by reloads and even w/factory shells and out hunting. It happens. Most times the shooter or someone next to them realizes the situation and stops the shooter before he/she fires a second shot. Be conscious of this as it DOES happen and could to any of us.
Kent shells: Been shooting them for many years. Great patterning shells. I've had 'duds' from Winchester, Federal and Remington shells besides Kent. Had them from my own reloads too. If you shoot enough, it's going to happen. Pay attention.
I had a Winchester shell shoot the entire plastic hull down the barrel on a Skagit hunt one day. Separated from the brass. It sounded funny so I didn't shoot again. Had to whittle a branch to fit the barrel and drove thru the barrel, driving out the shell with a hammer. Costed me most of the morning but saved my gun.
Taking shells out in the duck marsh time and time again can result in left over shells that have seen a few trips in very wet conditions and can result in 'duds'.
I bought a 1/2" copper pipe filled with lead (fishing weight)(halibut jig maybe) from Sportco a few years back and keep it in my blind bag. Cut the split rings off it and iied a small bright colored cord to the end for finding in the mud after dropping thru the barrel. Perfect for dropping down the barrel to remove obstructions.
Bottom line - pay attention.
:yeah:
However, it wasnt the first shot that lodged. It was the second.
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This sounds like the first shot left the wad in the choke causing the blow-up. It's quite common. I've seen it at gun clubs I've belonged to over the years either by reloads and even w/factory shells and out hunting. It happens. Most times the shooter or someone next to them realizes the situation and stops the shooter before he/she fires a second shot. Be conscious of this as it DOES happen and could to any of us.
Kent shells: Been shooting them for many years. Great patterning shells. I've had 'duds' from Winchester, Federal and Remington shells besides Kent. Had them from my own reloads too. If you shoot enough, it's going to happen. Pay attention.
I had a Winchester shell shoot the entire plastic hull down the barrel on a Skagit hunt one day. Separated from the brass. It sounded funny so I didn't shoot again. Had to whittle a branch to fit the barrel and drove thru the barrel, driving out the shell with a hammer. Costed me most of the morning but saved my gun.
Taking shells out in the duck marsh time and time again can result in left over shells that have seen a few trips in very wet conditions and can result in 'duds'.
I bought a 1/2" copper pipe filled with lead (fishing weight)(halibut jig maybe) from Sportco a few years back and keep it in my blind bag. Cut the split rings off it and iied a small bright colored cord to the end for finding in the mud after dropping thru the barrel. Perfect for dropping down the barrel to remove obstructions.
Bottom line - pay attention.
:yeah:
However, it wasnt the first shot that lodged. It was the second.
If you're positive of that, I'd venture to say that the bolt wasn't closed all the way. With the obvious pressure from the second shot that broke the forearm, there should have been plenty of pressure to make the wad clear the barrel.
How do you know for sure that the 1st shot's wad cleared the barrel? Just asking.
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Glad your ok :tup:
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This sounds like the first shot left the wad in the choke causing the blow-up. It's quite common. I've seen it at gun clubs I've belonged to over the years either by reloads and even w/factory shells and out hunting. It happens. Most times the shooter or someone next to them realizes the situation and stops the shooter before he/she fires a second shot. Be conscious of this as it DOES happen and could to any of us.
Kent shells: Been shooting them for many years. Great patterning shells. I've had 'duds' from Winchester, Federal and Remington shells besides Kent. Had them from my own reloads too. If you shoot enough, it's going to happen. Pay attention.
I had a Winchester shell shoot the entire plastic hull down the barrel on a Skagit hunt one day. Separated from the brass. It sounded funny so I didn't shoot again. Had to whittle a branch to fit the barrel and drove thru the barrel, driving out the shell with a hammer. Costed me most of the morning but saved my gun.
Taking shells out in the duck marsh time and time again can result in left over shells that have seen a few trips in very wet conditions and can result in 'duds'.
I bought a 1/2" copper pipe filled with lead (fishing weight)(halibut jig maybe) from Sportco a few years back and keep it in my blind bag. Cut the split rings off it and iied a small bright colored cord to the end for finding in the mud after dropping thru the barrel. Perfect for dropping down the barrel to remove obstructions.
Bottom line - pay attention.
:yeah:
However, it wasnt the first shot that lodged. It was the second.
If you're positive of that, I'd venture to say that the bolt wasn't closed all the way. With the obvious pressure from the second shot that broke the forearm, there should have been plenty of pressure to make the wad clear the barrel.
How do you know for sure that the 1st shot's wad cleared the barrel? Just asking.
Not only am I positive of that but I just got the results of the testing done at the factory. It was a 2 shell failure. 1st shell hull seperated from the brass and some of the brass got stuck in the chamber, while the hull got stuck in my barrel. When I went to chamber and shoot the next round, it naturally caught the hull and other parts and blew it out the side of my gun. The wad and pellets all went out the side from the second shell!! I am glad I still have all my parts! So, all in all it was a failure of the first shell that caused the bad situation. Having said that, KENT has been nothing but gracious and good to me. They have made it all better by reimbursing me plus some. Other than what happened, I could not have asked for a better company to deal with.
Just got a new stoeger M3500 semi. First semi I have owned, shouldered like a benelli, fit me perfect, and was in my price range. Cant wait to get out there and slay some ducks with it. Off to Clarkston tho for a late second deer archery first. Might hunt the snake while Im there tho.
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Very scary. Waterfowl hunting is dangerous enough without weapon failures. We should all take a sobering second to remind ourselves that coming home safe is the most important part of a great day hunting. Gotta count our blessings everytime.
He provides, guides and protects.
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so... just curious....
but what did you do with the old gun?
Do you still have it for parts?
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This sounds like the first shot left the wad in the choke causing the blow-up. It's quite common. I've seen it at gun clubs I've belonged to over the years either by reloads and even w/factory shells and out hunting. It happens. Most times the shooter or someone next to them realizes the situation and stops the shooter before he/she fires a second shot. Be conscious of this as it DOES happen and could to any of us.
Kent shells: Been shooting them for many years. Great patterning shells. I've had 'duds' from Winchester, Federal and Remington shells besides Kent. Had them from my own reloads too. If you shoot enough, it's going to happen. Pay attention.
I had a Winchester shell shoot the entire plastic hull down the barrel on a Skagit hunt one day. Separated from the brass. It sounded funny so I didn't shoot again. Had to whittle a branch to fit the barrel and drove thru the barrel, driving out the shell with a hammer. Costed me most of the morning but saved my gun.
Taking shells out in the duck marsh time and time again can result in left over shells that have seen a few trips in very wet conditions and can result in 'duds'.
I bought a 1/2" copper pipe filled with lead (fishing weight)(halibut jig maybe) from Sportco a few years back and keep it in my blind bag. Cut the split rings off it and iied a small bright colored cord to the end for finding in the mud after dropping thru the barrel. Perfect for dropping down the barrel to remove obstructions.
Bottom line - pay attention.
:yeah:
However, it wasnt the first shot that lodged. It was the second.
If you're positive of that, I'd venture to say that the bolt wasn't closed all the way. With the obvious pressure from the second shot that broke the forearm, there should have been plenty of pressure to make the wad clear the barrel.
How do you know for sure that the 1st shot's wad cleared the barrel? Just asking.
Not only am I positive of that but I just got the results of the testing done at the factory. It was a 2 shell failure. 1st shell hull seperated from the brass and some of the brass got stuck in the chamber, while the hull got stuck in my barrel. When I went to chamber and shoot the next round, it naturally caught the hull and other parts and blew it out the side of my gun. The wad and pellets all went out the side from the second shell!! I am glad I still have all my parts! So, all in all it was a failure of the first shell that caused the bad situation. Having said that, KENT has been nothing but gracious and good to me. They have made it all better by reimbursing me plus some. Other than what happened, I could not have asked for a better company to deal with.
Just got a new stoeger M3500 semi. First semi I have owned, shouldered like a benelli, fit me perfect, and was in my price range. Cant wait to get out there and slay some ducks with it. Off to Clarkston tho for a late second deer archery first. Might hunt the snake while Im there tho.
Per your testing results: How did the second shell chamber? Or didn't it chamber all the way? Just curious because it shouldn't have fired if it wasn't completely chambered. If it chambered all the way, you'd have no way of knowing the previous shell was defective.
When I had that Winchester shell shoot it's plastic hull into the barrel, I contacted Winchester about it. They sent me a coupon for a box of shells. Better than a sharp stick in the eye but given the situation that I relayed to them in my letter I expected more.
Glad you didn't get hurt and got it taken care of. Hard to beat good customer service. It's very scarce these days.
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Almost looks as if the lug didn't fully engauge and that may have been additional reasoning for the blow out. Forward motion may have stopped and allowed it to fire, but their may have been a gap. Luckily it didn't damage you. I had the similar happen with paper trap loads over the summer. I shot the first round and the second went in tight, but I just slammed it forward and when I pulled the trigger it blew out the side. Didn't damage the gun. I was also shooting 1,120 fps vs. 1,550 w/ a 1oz load. That may have been the saving grace.
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glad to hear you are ok and moving forward. i had problems with kent loads and will not use them anymore. i have friends that swear by them and have nevber had a problem. with as many as they pump out, there are going to be bad ones in the lot. glad to see you are still after it. hope that was an oil experience. good luck, shoot straight
If I quit using every brand I've had a problem with over the past 40 yrs, I'd have to use only my own reloads cuz it would be the only thing left.
I don't reload hunting shot shells by the way.
Last bad batch was a box of Hevi-Steel. Several in the box either had no powder or no shot, Crimps were very concave.
I wrote the manufacture and sent photos and never heard a word back from them. They are still sitting on my bench as a reminder to check all shells before taking them afield.
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Glad it all got worked out!
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Almost looks as if the lug didn't fully engauge and that may have been additional reasoning for the blow out. Forward motion may have stopped and allowed it to fire, but their may have been a gap. Luckily it didn't damage you. I had the similar happen with paper trap loads over the summer. I shot the first round and the second went in tight, but I just slammed it forward and when I pulled the trigger it blew out the side. Didn't damage the gun. I was also shooting 1,120 fps vs. 1,550 w/ a 1oz load. That may have been the saving grace.
This is not the shells fault is it? Most of this post is blaming Kent Cartridge Co but bad shells but if the gun fired without the bolt being fully closed and locked, it's the guns fault or the shooters fault for: Not cleaning it good enough, getting debris in the action/bolt etc while in the field..............
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Almost looks as if the lug didn't fully engauge and that may have been additional reasoning for the blow out. Forward motion may have stopped and allowed it to fire, but their may have been a gap. Luckily it didn't damage you. I had the similar happen with paper trap loads over the summer. I shot the first round and the second went in tight, but I just slammed it forward and when I pulled the trigger it blew out the side. Didn't damage the gun. I was also shooting 1,120 fps vs. 1,550 w/ a 1oz load. That may have been the saving grace.
This is not the shells fault is it? Most of this post is blaming Kent Cartridge Co but bad shells but if the gun fired without the bolt being fully closed and locked, it's the guns fault or the shooters fault for: Not cleaning it good enough, getting debris in the action/bolt etc while in the field..............
Kent was a great company to deal with and I will get their shells again. If I had Known exactly what happened with the first shell, or whether or not the gun went all the way forward, we probably wouldnt be having this conversation. In the end, I am just glad I am safe. I cleaned the gun before the trip. There was no debris in the gun.
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The debris I'm referring to would be from the 1st shell hntrspud.
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What choke you have in your gun ... Full Mod or Impr . ? I heard of this happening with someone using steel shot with a full choke ....that's crazy ,,,glad your ok !
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Choke wouldn't have affected it. I've shot literally thousands of steel loads thru a full choke. I've even shot them thru a tight 'turkey constriction' choke.
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The debris I'm referring to would be from the 1st shell hntrspud.
Gotcha! I assumed when I shouldnt have. :tup: