Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: floatinghat on November 01, 2013, 07:03:02 PM

Title: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: floatinghat on November 01, 2013, 07:03:02 PM: I had a friend call and ask me if I would like a chance at filling a depredation tag this weekend. Now my question and why I think I will be a tracker and GCD.

1) I filled my special cow permit.
2) I had a west side tag the depredation tag is east side.
3) My West side tag was Muzzy.

I can also think of reason why it should be legit. But, my rational doesn't matter to the "law" and a stupid mistake and english speaking makes a better public example than "trophy poachers" or just stupid poachers.

thanks.

GDC= grand canyon donkey
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: JLS on November 01, 2013, 07:05:23 PM: I know a few folks that have used depredation permit, and if I recall correctly they said they had to still have their original issue tag in order to use the depredation permit. I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: _TONY_ on November 01, 2013, 07:10:55 PM: Why would you still need your state issued tag, just to fill depredation tag? The ones that our family friends get, for deer in their orchards, do not require it...

Should be any weapon also...
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: Bob33 on November 01, 2013, 07:23:33 PM: Quote from: JLS on November 01, 2013, 07:05:23 PM
I know a few folks that have used depredation permit, and if I recall correctly they said they had to still have their original issue tag in order to use the depredation permit. I could be wrong.
Generally speaking that is correct. It is a "permit" not a "tag".
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: floatinghat on November 01, 2013, 08:22:45 PM: Quote from: Bob33 on November 01, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: JLS on November 01, 2013, 07:05:23 PM
I know a few folks that have used depredation permit, and if I recall correctly they said they had to still have their original issue tag in order to use the depredation permit. I could be wrong.
Generally speaking that is correct. It is a "permit" not a "tag".

Semantics aside, that is what I was thinking. It doesn't count for a second animal. I guess I could throw a rifle in the truck just in case someone can provide a definitive answer.

Could deer and elk be different?
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 01, 2013, 08:44:34 PM: Quote from: floatinghat on November 01, 2013, 08:22:45 PM
Quote from: Bob33 on November 01, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: JLS on November 01, 2013, 07:05:23 PM
I know a few folks that have used depredation permit, and if I recall correctly they said they had to still have their original issue tag in order to use the depredation permit. I could be wrong.
Generally speaking that is correct. It is a "permit" not a "tag".

Semantics aside, that is what I was thinking. It doesn't count for a second animal. I guess I could throw a rifle in the truck just in case someone can provide a definitive answer.

Could deer and elk be different?

It's not really semantics :dunno:

They're entirely different objects. For instance, I could draw a bull tag for the Tucannon (not going to happen) and a Colockum cow tag (not going to happen) and I'd still have my general season transport tag to fill (not going to happen)

They are simply another option to fill the original tag. Permits just increase your options but you can still only fill one tag. Master Hunter 2nd tags are the only exception for elk hunters.

So yes, deer and elk are different. Joe Schmoe from...Shelton...can't apply for a "Colockum 2nd Elk Tag, antlerless only"
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: floatinghat on November 01, 2013, 09:04:59 PM: Thanks that make sense.

But we can disagree, you could draw a special permit and have your general tag. But I don't think there are special tags?

But I think your term on being additional options describes it spot on. I won't be shooting.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: rosscrazyelk on November 01, 2013, 09:13:52 PM: I have been trying to figure out how to get one of these tags. I was not able to go out this year due to i screwed up and got my wife pregnant at the wrong time and our baby came in the middle of elk season..
Congrats on your cow by the way
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: Bob33 on November 01, 2013, 09:24:28 PM: "For instance, I could draw a bull tag for the Tucannon (not going to happen) and a Colockum cow tag (not going to happen) and I'd still have my general season transport tag to fill (not going to happen)".

Not quite right. You could draw a bull elk PERMIT for Tucannon, and also draw a Colockum antlerless PERMIT, Either PERMIT could be used to fill your one TAG. :tup:
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 01, 2013, 09:36:30 PM: Quote from: Bob33 on November 01, 2013, 09:24:28 PM
"For instance, I could draw a bull tag for the Tucannon (not going to happen) and a Colockum cow tag (not going to happen) and I'd still have my general season transport tag to fill (not going to happen)".

Not quite right. You could draw a bull elk PERMIT for Tucannon, and also draw a Colockum antlerless PERMIT, Either PERMIT could be used to fill your one TAG. :tup:

Sorry I guess I wasn't clear enough that I was joking. I didn't really craft that post with my heart and soul. I meant it in a facetious way.

I was getting at just that...a tag is what goes on the animal, a permit is what lets you hunt (outside general esason guidelines)
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: adamR on November 02, 2013, 07:01:59 AM: I had one of these tags a few years ago and found out I couldn't use it because I already filled my general elk tag. However, if you did have an elk tag left I think you are supposed to use your designated weapon but it could be during any season or out of season.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: TG509hunter on November 02, 2013, 07:48:01 PM: A depredation "permit/tag" .... Whatever you want to call it, are tags handed out to landowners to help manager the elk population to prevent damage to crops, fences, etc. I am pretty sure these permits do not require a transportation tag. The permit itself is the transportation documentation. Think about it ..... If a hunter had to use a elk tag that doesn't help manage/decrease elk populations. I have a close friend who recieves a depredation Coe tag every year. Last year he drew a big bull tag and long story short both tags/permits were legally filled. Some of the landowners even sale the permits/tags for up to $500. Essentially, getting an offer to fill a depredation permit is a sweet deal and it doesnt matter what tag (east/west) you have or what weapon your tag is. As long as you have the depredation permit on you, you can use any weapon as long as you are hunting within the accepted dates. The way I understand it is depredation tags are basically freebies.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: JLS on November 02, 2013, 07:53:21 PM: Quote from: TG509hunter on November 02, 2013, 07:48:01 PM
A depredation "permit/tag" .... Whatever you want to call it, are tags handed out to landowners to help manager the elk population to prevent damage to crops, fences, etc. I am pretty sure these permits do not require a transportation tag. The permit itself is the transportation documentation. Think about it ..... If a hunter had to use a elk tag that doesn't help manage/decrease elk populations. I have a close friend who recieves a depredation Coe tag every year. Last year he drew a big bull tag and long story short both tags/permits were legally filled. Some of the landowners even sale the permits/tags for up to $500. Essentially, getting an offer to fill a depredation permit is a sweet deal and it doesnt matter what tag (east/west) you have or what weapon your tag is. As long as you have the depredation permit on you, you can use any weapon as long as you are hunting within the accepted dates. The way I understand it is depredation tags are basically freebies.

I think we are mixing apples and oranges here with the types of tags you are talking about. If it were me, I'd certainly check into it a little further before I pulled the trigger.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: pendoreilleadventures on November 02, 2013, 07:53:32 PM: I had one for a doe in 133 one year the land owner was given 5 tags because the deer were eating all of his alfalfa out of his barn. I happened to have a left over second deer tag so I was able to use that but it said right on the tag you had to have an unused tag in order to use the permit this was in March.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: runamuk on November 02, 2013, 07:57:06 PM: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-28-266 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-28-266)

http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/90/Are+there+any+circumstances+when+a+landowner+can+legally+set+his%7B47%7Dher+own+hunting+seasons+and+regulations+on+private+property+in+Washington%3F (http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/90/Are+there+any+circumstances+when+a+landowner+can+legally+set+his%7B47%7Dher+own+hunting+seasons+and+regulations+on+private+property+in+Washington%3F)

Quote
Once issued to a landowner by the Commission, a DPP allows the properly licensed landowner to remove damage-causing deer/elk/turkey, or it allows another licensed hunter to be selected by the landowner to take the animal(s).

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-36-051 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-36-051)
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: JLS on November 02, 2013, 07:58:38 PM: (2) Killing wildlife causing damage or killing wildlife to prevent private property damage.

(a) An individual (one) big game animal may be killed during the physical act of attacking livestock or pets.

(b) Predatory birds (as defined in RCW 77.08.010(39)), unclassified wildlife, and eastern gray squirrels may be killed with the express permission of the property owner at any time, to prevent private property damage on private real property.

(c) Subject to subsection (6) of this section, the following list of wildlife species may be killed with the express permission of the owner, when causing damage to private property: Raccoon, fox, bobcat, beaver, muskrat, mink, river otter, weasel, hare, and cottontail rabbits.

(d) The department may make agreements with landowners to prevent private property damage by wildlife. The agreements may include special hunting season permits such as: Landowner damage prevention permits, spring black bear hunting permits, permits issued through the landowner hunting permit program, kill permits, and Master Hunter permits.

(e) Landowners are encouraged to allow general season hunters during established hunting seasons on their property to help minimize damage potential and concerns.

(3) Wildlife control operators may assist property owners under the conditions of their permit, as established in WAC 232-36-060 and 232-36-065.

(4) Tribal members may assist property owners under the conditions of valid comanagement agreements between tribes and the department. Tribes must be in compliance with the agreements including, but not limited to, adhering to reporting requirements and harvest restrictions.

(5) Hunting licenses and tags are not required to kill wildlife under this section, unless the killing is pursuant to subsections (2)(c) and (d) of this section. Tribal members operating under subsection (4) of this section are required to meet tribal hunting license, tag, and permit requirements.

Out of curiousity, I looked it up. You guys can do what you want, me I think I'd make sure I had a license and tag unless a WDFW officer specifically told me I didn't need one.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: runamuk on November 02, 2013, 08:06:22 PM: Thats for the special circumstance kill permits also often limited to landowner and their relatives. The regular depredation permits must be filled using a regular license and tag and are usually antlerless with a longer season on the landowners property. There are 2 main types with the depredations being the majority of the ones issued.

people need to be real careful that they know just which law they are acting on. it also says right there I can shoot predatory birds but am betting if I start whacking eagles and owls and say well the line 2 b says its ok, my butt is gonna be in a sling.... :chuckle: :chuckle:
Washington state laws are devised specifically to impossible to be interpreted by layman thus keeping all of us as criminals ....
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: Bob33 on November 02, 2013, 08:08:36 PM: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-025 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-025)

(b) Hunters must have valid, unused general deer/elk tags to hunt and kill a legal animal during the prescribed damage permit hunt. If a hunter takes an animal of the same species during an earlier hunt, that person is ineligible for a damage hunt permit.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: pendoreilleadventures on November 02, 2013, 08:14:11 PM: Quote from: Bob33 on November 02, 2013, 08:08:36 PM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-025 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-025)

(b) Hunters must have valid, unused general deer/elk tags to hunt and kill a legal animal during the prescribed damage permit hunt. If a hunter takes an animal of the same species during an earlier hunt, that person is ineligible for a damage hunt permit.

:yeah:
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: runamuk on November 02, 2013, 08:20:18 PM: there are 3 different laws related to 3 different sets of circumstances and I think that is why people are getting confused. There are kill tags issued in special circumstances that do NOT require a regular season tag but those are not the ones most people think of as depredation permits which are actually often issued every year to the same landowners and are even accounted for in the season setting and such.
Title: Re: 2nd elk depredation tag ??
Post by: emac on November 02, 2013, 10:15:42 PM: You have to have a valid transportation tag ( general tag) to harvest an elk on a deporovation tag been through it many times. so if you already got an elk you are s.o.l.