Hunting Washington Forum
Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: JackOfAllTrades on November 02, 2013, 05:55:21 PM
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I could'a maybe put this in the deer section but it seems to be loaded with this years hunting success. I'm aiming this more at reloader/hunters anyway. As long as I've reloaded (more than 25 years), Hunted.. (more than 35 years), I've been quite successful with various handgun bullets from 44mag. My own lead pours also for pistol. Bulk packaged Remington CoreLokts, along with other rifle cartridge Speer and Sierra spitzers and boat tails. Hornady InterLock, and Nosler Partition too. I have never reloaded or fired so called 'premium' from Barnes, Swift, Asquare and such as I have been very happy with the accuracy I've been able to develope with said 'not premium' bullets. So, this year after having been informed that the Nosler Balistic Tip bullets had a jacket re-design a few years ago I worked up loads with RL19 and 4350 in four rifles, (Marlin XL7 in .270, Two Tikka T3's in 30-06, my Ruger 30-338 and oh yeah, my 03-A3 in 30-06) to sub moa accuracy from each barrel. (Ok.. the 03-A3 shot'm a tad over moa. Expected since that barrel has thousands of rounds through it.) Anyway.. I shot a decent Mule deer this season from the 30-338. Muzzel velocity for the 180gn bullet was 3,100fps ish.. Impact at deer hide was ~85yds. ~2,925fps. No bones hit. -Maybe a bit of the shoulder plate toward the rear. That's mostly cartilage. The bullet exploded the right lung. Exploded the top of the heart. I did not find one bullet fragment when field dressing or skinning. Bullet did not exit. I can tell you from experience that any of the forementioned bullets would have expanded and retained more than 65%, maybe even 80% of total weight, or would have been a through and through shot at that distance at that velocity. I don't mind two holes for a buck to bleed from! ;) I don't mind a bullet that penitrates, expands, and does the necessary damage to vital life sustaining organs to put him down in a humane quick action when I decide to pull the trigger.
Now, I know there will be the nay'sayers about the CoreLokts or WinSilverTips. Even those that don't like Speer or Sierra bullets, but I have had great success with them. I know there are a lot of people that will stand by Nosler Partitions. My request in this post is to hear from the Accubond shooters that load not only for ultimate accuracy, but ultimate payload deliverance and effective quality of the Accubond bullets at closer than anticipated ranges. Lets face it, we load our magnums for long range shooting, but I've been fortunate enough to take game at distances where I nearly wished I had my darn 30-30 in my hands instead.
The following is the ENTRANCE wound. Yes, I can put my hand through. No exit. More meat damage than I anticipated.
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That's some carnage... I shot mine with a 300 WM and didn't do nearly that amount of damage to the shoulder. I am also a lung shot guy
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Which bullet was this ? a lot of gun for a deer :yike: Shoulder shots on deer usually do a lot of damage ...when a bullet hits bone its like a grenade going off ! Hornaday Interloc ...problem solved :chuckle: :chuckle:
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I'd say you were a little too close and the velocity a little too high for that Ballistic Tip. Should have been shooting a Barnes tsx. Or an Accubond, or similar. I definitely wouldn't use a Ballistic tip out of a cartridge that pushes them out over 3000 fps. I once shot an antelope at 320 yards with a 150 grain Ballistip Tip out of a 270 Winchester. Bullet blew up and not even a fragment reached the far side of the body cavity. This was a broadside shot behind the shoulder and it just barely clipped a rib going in.
The Ballistic Tip are very accurate out of my A Bolt, but I'm looking to load up some Accubonds for next year. Only problem is, they aren't available anywhere. The only bullets I've found that anyone has in stock, ARE the Ballistic Tips.
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Which bullet was this ? a lot of gun for a deer :yike: Shoulder shots on deer usually do a lot of damage ...when a bullet hits bone its like a grenade going off ! Hornaday Interloc ...problem solved :chuckle: :chuckle:
True, a lot of gun for deer, but where I hunt I could have an 85yd shot or a 500yd shot. Make note, no real bone hit. I have also had good perforance from the 190 Hornady Interlock.
-Steve
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I am one of the biggest accubond fan's out there. My buddy at nosler got me to start shooting them and I never thought I would step away from partitions. I still run them and the etip in a few guns but most are fed with accubonds. I have a prime picture of just what you asked for. I have shot animals from 40 yards to 550 yards with the accubond. I will see if I can get it up here.
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I may need to suck up on my my pride and load some accubonds ....you guys talk to highly of them .....Be something different for me to talk about besides Wasp and Hornaday :chuckle: :chuckle: I need to show ya my wifes buck ..shot with a 7mm 08 and 120 SST ... :yike: Did not hurt much meat ....but the rib cage :yike:
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Carp, please tell your buddy at Nosler that the tapered jacket of the BT bullets for big game might be better if it wasn't tapered. I would think that it would be more 'like' the accubond, but not have the properties of the different alloy or base of the accubond. -They'd probably sell more BT's in the long run if it performed a little different.
http://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip (http://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip)
http://www.nosler.com/accubond (http://www.nosler.com/accubond)
-Steve
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i'm a cheap ole bastage.. I've never wanted to spend the money on the Accubonds vs others that I can get for nearly half the price of them.
-Steve
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"My request in this post is to hear from the Accubond shooters that load not only for ultimate accuracy, but ultimate payload deliverance and effective quality of the Accubond bullets at closer than anticipated ranges"
Hear you go Steve. This fits your request to the t! 340wby my long range rifle. I have taken it to cali 3 times to shoot a boar at long range and all my shots have been under 100 yards :bash: Figures LOL. 225g accubond running at 2900fps. This hog broke from cover at 75 yards and ran across a skidder trail. I made a snap shot on it at full bore run. It was at a quarter away angle from me and the bullet when threw the ribs at the back of the lungs and out the other shoulder. The hog rolled down about 50 yards but was dead on impact. I think I could have put both my hands threw it.
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Yet again, I think that's more meat damage than I've ever had from a CoreLokt, Partition or InterLock. Through and through holes shouldn't be that big -at any distance.
-Steve
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Don't get me wrong I had my brother kill a core lock. My wife and sister in law killed 3 deer with combined techs. Then of course a few died from accubonds. I think friends/family and clients killed deer with 6 different bullets. So I use the cheap bullets sometimes to :chuckle: I like the ct's but they are going threw as much bone as the accubonds and coming a part a lot more. They shoot great and kill great so they will stick around.
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I have had some nasty ones from corelokt's and partitons. I don't mind losing a few ounces more of meat. The killing power is what gets me to keep shooting them. They all can be accurate. I have had more deer run after remingtons then any other bullet I have used/been used in family/friends and clients rifles. They just seem to go even with great shots. Mind you I don't mind a 30 yard death run or so but when you hunt canyons that can be a problem :chuckle: 30 yards on there feet may mean hundreds of yards down into hell holes :chuckle:
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not squimish so no problems here but damn! any meat left? :IBCOOL:
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Check this out ...my wifes deer ...7mm 08 with a 120 gr SST ... :yike: No lost meat but it did a number on the ribs .....
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here is what I prefer to see.... shoulder shot on a bear with no damage ....just flat out drops them !! 300 WSM 180 GR Hornaday Interlock
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I may try the Accubond, but that there makes me want to go back to the Hornady InterLock too!
-Steve
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I hand-loaded 180 gr. Accubonds for my A-bolt 30-06 this year; running IMR 4350. Shot my bull at about 50 yds and that round acted like a bunker buster. No damage to any meat; all damage was internal. The entrance hole looked like a cigarette burn in the hide with no lost meat. There was no exit. He ran about 40 yards and piled up. After he was field dressed, we rolled him over and a large part of what was left of his heart poured out in pieces.
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You can see the bullet just under the skin ...this is kinda puzzling to me ...I have shot bears with my .270 in the exact spot and they blew straight threw ...with a 140 gr Interlock and other times they have not went threw ...same load and about the same distances ....but either way they have all taking a dirt nap ...
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I hand-loaded 180 gr. Accubonds for my A-bolt 30-06 this year; running IMR 4350. Shot my bull at about 50 yds and that round acted like a bunker buster. No damage to any meat; all damage was internal. The entrance hole looked like a cigarette burn in the hide with no lost meat. There was no exit. He ran about 40 yards and piled up. After he was field dressed, we rolled him over and a large part of what was left of his heart poured out in pieces.
nice ... that's a nice clean hole for sure :tup: I will be trying some :tup:
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I wish there was more threads like this..
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here is what I prefer to see.... shoulder shot on a bear with no damage ....just flat out drops them !! 300 WSM 180 GR Hornaday Interlock
+1 Very effective combo.
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I used to use the Nosler Ballistic Tips. They were extremely effective with knockdown. I went away from them because the internal ballistics were just too violent. I was shooting 165's in my .30-'06 behind 58 grains of IMR 4350. Too much meat loss on my deer. My next bullet was a Speer 165 boat tail. Still fragments but not as violent as the Nosler BT's.
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For most non-magnum guns I remain a strong Core-Lokt supporter. However, in recent years I have been buying more and more magnum guns. And the more I shoot the Accubond the more impressed I get. I won't be shooting anything at a distance greater than 500 yards with one, but it has been impressive! Seems to have just about everything I could want in a bullet from high velocity guns at reasonable non-sniper ranges.
I will not be abandoning the Core-Lokt and InnerLocks any time soon on those medium velocity guns like the 257 Roberts, 308 Win (one of my all time favorites) and the 30-06. They have just proven themselves way too successful for me to ever change. And you can find them near everywhere. And you will Never, Ever, neverever catch me shooting anything other than varmints with a Ballistic Tip. But, in these new Short Magnums and my favored 7mm Remington I'm now solidly in the Accubond camp. Although, finding them in stock loaded or bulk bullet this year has been pretty frustrating.
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I shot a mule deer in Montana a few years ago at 485 yards with my 270 and 140grain accubonds. Destroyed his heart, bullet exited and he ran 75 yards and died. I also shot a buck in 2011 in Montana at about 80 yards or so with the same rifle bullet combo. I shot the buck twice since I wasn't sure of my first shot due to the wind and making a quick shot without a rest. Both shots were behind the shoulder and both exited. Very small entrance hole and maybe quarter size exit hole. Little meat loss.
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I know you didnt ask for it but i figured i would mention the barnes ttsx. Im shooting 180gr out of my 300 weatherby and killed 2 bears with them this year both at VERY close range. The first was at 11 yards broadside with a straight pass through just behind the shoulder. It hit a rib on the way in but the bullet held together and made a little more than a golfball exit hole. Not a alot of meat loss and the bear went down in about 20 yards. The hydrostatic shock pretty much turned everything inside to jelly with minimal meat loss. The second one was at about 30 yards and was a head shot so not much to tell there but the bullet hit just above the right eye and held together and exited the back of the skull with a hole about the size of a 50 cent piece. Im loading 70gr of IMR 4350 behind them and at 100 yards my groups are one ragged hole.
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I agree with Carp here, to a point. I have shot old reliable plain Jane bullets like the 145 speer boattail in my 7mm because that is what it likes best, so I never went any farther back in 1997. There are alot of good bullets out there, old and new technology. I started shooting the accubonds a few years ago in some of my guns and have been very happy with accuracy and performance. Yes they are a bit more money than some of the other proven bullets out there, but when you compare the price of a box of Accubond bullets to what most of us put in the gas tank each week, the difference is minimal, so my one go to bullet if I have to choose is the Accubond.
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I dont shoot the magnum calibers, and have always been pretty happy with the effects of plain corelokt or interlock bullets.. Not much has been said about the Hornady SST, but its essentially a plastic tipped hornady interlock, a tougher, less frangible bullet than the BT, usually cheaper than BT's..and it works. In the Magnum, really fast calibers- you might need to stay with bonded, (and the expense of bonded bullets) but for standard calibers..
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I was always happy with 160gr. accubond out of my 7mm rem. mag. You do loose some meat but it always put them down. That was until yesterday. I shot an elk at 240yds. on the run blew out the front shoulder and only one lung. No blood jumped him bedded in the timber and the chase was on. I ended up tracking him a little over a mile before I could put him down. Toughest elk I have ever shot. When I skinned him out bone just kept falling out of his shoulder.
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I shoot the vlds in my long range set up due to the low amount of ke needed for bullet performance , in my other set ups its the hornady sst's . whit shot his cow with a 180sst at around 2800 fps broke a rib going in top of heart and jello'd the lungs and exited through the of rib cage she went no where !
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That is some serious deer fire-power there. :yike:
Nice buck!
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I don't have field photos of the bear but I have all the load info and was able to recover the bullet.
Ruger M77 Mark IV chambered in .300 Winchester Magnum. Using the Barnes TSX BT 165 gr. loaded with 70 grains of IMR 4831. Velocity is right in the neighborhood of 3000 fps.
Shot the bear at 130 yards, hit her just to the right of the spine and took out booth lungs (I think the energy at that distance caused a lot of hydrostatic shock and that is why both lungs were toast). She ran for ~40 yards, and I put another round in her neck (only option, and I think she stopped because she was going down). The second shot was purely a backup from all the stories and youtube videos I have watched about bears being so tuff. First shot was found just under the hide near the armpit and the neck shot was a pass through. After several hours of soaking and cleaning with peroxide to make sure I could get an accurate weight the results are as follows.
Expansion- .613 diameter average because the two diameters differed slightly.
Weight retention- 99.45% (164.3 gr) I grabbed a random bullet out of my new box to check the accuracy of weight and it was 165.2 grains, so I used that as the number to figure weight retention.
I also shot a mature bull elk in 2011 (double lung shot, no shoulder), had a small entrance wound and the exit hole reminded me of a .45 ACP hole on paper. The bull went less than 40 yards before he piled up. I have been nothing but pleased with this round and would recommend these bullets to anyone who reloads.
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Feed back on the accubonds. My wife and I call them accuBOMBS. Tried them in her 270-140 and my 280AI-140, we shot 5 speed goats in Wyoming and 3 mule deer here at home. The third mule deer was taken by the neighbor lady with Kat's 270. We were shocked at the huge entrance wounds, destruction of meat was sickening for us, we eat what we kill. We have used Speer Grand Slams in our hunting rifles since '98, I read the rave reviews and tried the "bombs" one season, never again. The dogs got almost as much meat as we did that year. It seems odd, to me, that the Grand Slams are seldom mentioned, we have had great results with them. OK, rant over, just had to put my :twocents:in. Tight lines ff :hello:
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Hmmm. I've had great results with accubonds. The worst bullet as far as wasting I've ever seen was partitions. They are a great bullet but produce quite I bit of bloodshot. I've personally used accubonds on deer, antelope, bear, and now elk. The only"blowup" I've had was at very close range with my 7 mag but it did do the trick and it was with the long range accubond not the regular accubonds. The long range are not meant for close range shots. It was about 10 yards. Anyways I just can't help but wonder the circumstances of these horror stories because I friggin love them and will continue to look forward to hearing the accubond "pop" when they hit home next season.
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Another option that hasn't been mentioned is the Hornaday Interbonds. Substantially cheaper than Accubonds, with what I feel are similar results both for accuracy and durability.
I switched my 7 mag over from Interlocks to Interbonds last year and have been VERY impressed. I've killed two elk with them now, and a buddy killed his first bull with them this year. Last years was a little over 200 yards, pass through, jellied lungs. This year I shot my spike through the front shoulder at 30-35 yards. Bullet took out 2 ribs afterwards and I found the bullet under the hide on the other side fully intact with 87% weight retention. I will post a picture of the bullet when I get home. Friend shot his at about 100 yards, one pass through double lung, follow up shot spined him. Spine shot was suprisingly clean.
In the mean time, here is a comparison of 154 gr. Hornaday SST vs. 154 gr. Hornaday Interbond. Shot at 100 yards.
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I shot a deer with an accubond at about 40 yards moving 2800 fps. The wound was devastating, but not that bad. I shot an elk 400 yards and the entrance wound was small, but my exit wound was enormous. My father in law shot an elk this year at 800 yards with a 300 win mag with 200 gr accubonds and the wound was absolutely devastating, the exit would was the size of my fist.
From my understanding, the accubond as well as the ballistic tips have always had issues of tearing apart with extreme velocities, generally at close range. Not every time of course, but some of the time.
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An exit wound at 800 yards? :yike: holy crap!
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168 gr sierra game kings/ or match kings out of my .308s...course I only shoot rifles at varmints these days....
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I'd say you were a little too close and the velocity a little too high for that Ballistic Tip. Should have been shooting a Barnes tsx. Or an Accubond, or similar. I definitely wouldn't use a Ballistic tip out of a cartridge that pushes them out over 3000 fps. I once shot an antelope at 320 yards with a 150 grain Ballistip Tip out of a 270 Winchester. Bullet blew up and not even a fragment reached the far side of the body cavity. This was a broadside shot behind the shoulder and it just barely clipped a rib going in.
The Ballistic Tip are very accurate out of my A Bolt, but I'm looking to load up some Accubonds for next year. Only problem is, they aren't available anywhere. The only bullets I've found that anyone has in stock, ARE the Ballistic Tips.
EXACTLY. Heavy bullet, very fast traveling with that gun therefore at 85 yards you experienced less than satisfactory results. The story would be very different at 150 yards and getting even better as you travel out to 500 yards+ much better results.
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180 grain accubonds at 2950fps from .300 winmag:
Deer at 160 yards: Minimal meat loss, silver dollar size exit, heart and lungs were unrecognizable J-ELLO.
Elk at 60 yards A bit more meat loss, but more due to shot placement. DRT.
I think we will see if we can load them a bit hotter for next year.
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I'd say you were a little too close and the velocity a little too high for that Ballistic Tip. Should have been shooting a Barnes tsx. Or an Accubond, or similar. I definitely wouldn't use a Ballistic tip out of a cartridge that pushes them out over 3000 fps. I once shot an antelope at 320 yards with a 150 grain Ballistip Tip out of a 270 Winchester. Bullet blew up and not even a fragment reached the far side of the body cavity. This was a broadside shot behind the shoulder and it just barely clipped a rib going in.
The Ballistic Tip are very accurate out of my A Bolt, but I'm looking to load up some Accubonds for next year. Only problem is, they aren't available anywhere. The only bullets I've found that anyone has in stock, ARE the Ballistic Tips.
EXACTLY. Heavy bullet, very fast traveling with that gun therefore at 85 yards you experienced less than satisfactory results. The story would be very different at 150 yards and getting even better as you travel out to 500 yards+ much better results.
Oh, I completely understand the performance of the bullet because of the short range.. But I've shot other bullets that would have held together at that distance and still performed admirably at longer ranges.
-Steve
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An exit wound at 800 yards? :yike: holy crap!
The elk was quartering Towards us, the shot went through the lower part of the neck, broke the neck and came out the front shoulder. The bullet did break apart a little bit though. I found a piece of the bullet on the inside of the front shoulder near the exit wound. He was shooting a 200 grain accubond at around 2900 feet per second.
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Nice! :tup:
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Ive ised the accubonds and bt put of my 338win. The bt are explosive to say the least under 150yds out of my 338. Ive shot two deer with them both had lots of meat damage :bdid: loaded up some 225gr accubond at 2800 and have taken deer elk bear and a few yotes with them. Ive shot an elk at 20yds in the shoulder and the bullet did very little damage to the meat but smash the bone on both sides and exited, the bear at 75yds had a small hole in and out . My deer at 150yds had a hole in and out no meat loss. The coyotes where 40yds-600yds and the bullet destroyed them. The accubonds have been great bullets for my 338win and im looking forward to shooting the 6mm accubonds. Ill post pics of a recovered accubond
