Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on November 18, 2013, 12:36:20 PM

Title: Grouping Issues
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on November 18, 2013, 12:36:20 PM: I am currently running Pyrodex R/S and 320 maxxi balls. I was getting good groups with 90 gr but want to increase the powder to 120gr. Upon doing that my grouping went to crap. I am wondering, with a larger charge, should I switch to a different powder, or will my rifle just not handle that much powder? Its a traditions evolution 50 cal. It will handle up to 150 grains, but I have no need to run a load that hot. Any recommendations on getting better groups with a hotter charge are greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Grouping Issues
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 18, 2013, 12:41:36 PM: Did you jump straight up 30 grains or do it in increments?

May want to try 5 or ten grain increases and see how your groups do.

Maybe the rate of twist in the barrel is not correct for the higher velocities?

May need to change bullet selection?
Title: Re: Grouping Issues
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on November 18, 2013, 12:48:21 PM: I tried 10 gr increments, it was good till about 110. Unfortunately I hunt Idaho, so I can only use unjacketed projectile. It seems Maxxi balls are the only choice. Would tripple 7 shoot any different?
Title: Re: Grouping Issues
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 18, 2013, 12:53:56 PM: Don't know enough about the different powders, my guess would be with that particular combination of bullet, powder & gun, 110 is the max for effective grouping....good luck.
Title: Re: Grouping Issues
Post by: Sagebrushwilly on November 18, 2013, 09:28:53 PM: Just looked at the owners manual for your gun.
This is what Traditions shows for max hunting loads.

.50 240/250 gr. saboted bullet (2) 50 gr. pellets 1700 fps
(3) 50 gr. pellets 2100 fps
100 gr. Pyrodex RS 1700 fps
150 gr. Pyrodex RS 2100 fps
100 gr. Triple 7 1900 fps

.50 300 gr. saboted bullet (2) 50 gr. pellets 1600 fps
(3) 50 gr. pellets 1900 fps
100 gr. Pyrodex RS 1550 fps
100 gr. Triple 7 1700 fps

.54 250 gr. saboted bullet 100 gr. Pyrodex RS 1700 fps
275 gr. saboted bullet 100 gr. Pyrodex RS 1600 fps
425 gr. conical bullet 100 gr. Pyrodex RS 1500 fps

I frequent about 6 muzzleloading sites each day and everybody
that reports shooting conicals generally keeps their load in the 90 to 110gr.
As you can see from the above, changing from RS to Triple 7 will increase
your velocity by 150 fps for a 300 gr conical. Above all you want accuracy over speed. You have to know that the bullet will go where you want it to go.
Title: Re: Grouping Issues
Post by: Duffer on November 19, 2013, 01:19:06 AM: Quote from: Blacktail Sniper on November 18, 2013, 12:53:56 PM
Don't know enough about the different powders, my guess would be with that particular combination of bullet, powder & gun, 110 is the max for effective grouping....good luck.

That's about the sum of it. If you are shooting a 50 cal, there are a couple of options for conicals but you can only push them so hard before the charge starts to screw up the conical and it won't fly straight.

If you buy/try some overpowder wads, you may be able to push them a little harder but every muzzy is different. Yours will like a certain combo of load/conical/primer and that's all you get. The rifles' max load rating is only a safety note. It's definitely has nothing to do with how fast one can push a bullet accurately.

btw: you are already well above what my Knight Extreme can do. So far I can only push a .501-440 conical, with a wad, with 80grains of RS. I'm gonna try a paper patch next but that may be all I can get out of my gun with that combo of conical/powder/primer/wad. Muzzys vary. A lot.
Title: Re: Grouping Issues
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on November 19, 2013, 07:44:47 AM: Thanks for the input. I bought a pack of power belts that are pure lead and will give them a try. I'll keep the charges lower and find the happy medium. I don't need a magnum load to hunt whitetails with.

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