Post by: Mike450r on November 18, 2013, 01:05:05 PM
It stated that pellets are not allowed in Wa. State which I had never heard before so I thought I would look into it a little. I know a call to WDFW is the right thing to do but I haven't muzzleloaded in a few years and don't plan to anytime soon so I figured just some online research for now, however I found the information below interesting which I got out of the regs.
a. Muzzleloader: A firearm that is
loaded from the muzzle and uses black
powder or a black powder substitute as
recommended by the manufacturer for
use in all muzzleloading firearms.
I am still researching but I do not think that pellets are recommended for use in ALL muzzleloading firearms, so maybe Cabelas got it right? I know I have used them and a lot of people do, but are they legal? Everything I am finding so far recommends using pellets in inline rifles only which would seem to show pellets may be illegal in Wa.
Post by: syoungs on November 18, 2013, 01:16:49 PM
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on November 18, 2013, 01:20:25 PM
Post by: oneshot12 on November 18, 2013, 01:20:44 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 18, 2013, 01:21:26 PM
Post by: Bob33 on November 18, 2013, 01:21:39 PM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 18, 2013, 01:22:21 PM
I have never heard this. I'm on my way to buy a box of pellets now, I put more faith in my local spoetsmans warehouse then cabelas, I'll ask when I'm there to verify.
I really wouldn't trust either one as my legal reference source....
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on November 18, 2013, 01:23:04 PM
as far as i know the pellets are only good for the in line rifles . folks been using them for a long time here abouts never had no problems any of us know about as far as powder that is pretty much the very best thing for the traditional muzzle loaders. i know first hand the pellets dont work very well watched a buddy fuss over them at the range one day finely had to but some 4 f down the nipple to get it to go off
I've had two sidelock style percussion cap muzzleloaders and have shot pellets in them just fine. The #11 cap wasn't good at igniting it, but Musket caps push a little more spark to the powder.
Post by: Vulcan on November 18, 2013, 01:29:12 PM
Post by: oneshot12 on November 18, 2013, 01:32:03 PM
yep that just what he was using on his side lock, guess maybe if he had bee using the musket caps might have been a different story, i have never used them but he wasnt to impressed at the time guess he might have better done a bit more research be for trying them out with the number 11 cap so your saying if you use the musket capo they work out fine then i will pass that along to my friend may be he will give it another goas far as i know the pellets are only good for the in line rifles . folks been using them for a long time here abouts never had no problems any of us know about as far as powder that is pretty much the very best thing for the traditional muzzle loaders. i know first hand the pellets dont work very well watched a buddy fuss over them at the range one day finely had to but some 4 f down the nipple to get it to go off
I've had two sidelock style percussion cap muzzleloaders and have shot pellets in them just fine. The #11 cap wasn't good at igniting it, but Musket caps push a little more spark to the powder.
Post by: Mike450r on November 18, 2013, 01:36:24 PM
Triple Seven and Pyrodex Pellets are designed for use only in newly manufactured muzzleloading, in-line rifles of 50 caliber, 54 caliber, and 45 caliber. Use Triple Seven only in a 209 primer ignition system.
I am not saying legal or not at this point but this doesn't look like recommended by the manufacturer for use in ALL muzzleloading firearms to me.
Post by: oneshot12 on November 18, 2013, 01:42:33 PM
Post by: Mike450r on November 18, 2013, 01:43:41 PM
i know the black horn 209 powder says its primarily for the 209 primer ignition system and will not work well with the # 11 caps and has had some problem with the musket caps also .as i said folks been using the musket caps and pellets for some time now with no issues on the in lines guess it depends on what you want to shoot in your rifle is about all
I am talking legality, not functionality.
Post by: oneshot12 on November 18, 2013, 01:56:46 PM
Post by: Mike450r on November 18, 2013, 03:22:32 PM
well if it loaded from the muzzle its correct powder form or pellets as long as it is what the gun is designed to shoot it is a matter of personal preference the same as just what size and type of powder you decide to use in your muzzle loader .as lone as its not smokeless powder is the point they are trying to make . the ignition system for muzzle loader system it the main issue no 290 primers period. that is unless you decide to shoot modern season then have at it put the scope on use the 209 system or the disc its not a muzzle loader then but for the black powder season it must be a #11 or muscat cap and black powder or the substitutes pellet or powder form
I am thinking more and more that this is something that officers are just ignorant to which happens a lot, case in point would be a lot of leo are not aware of the exceptions for concealed carry.
The WAC is clear to me that black powder substitutes must be recommended by the manufacturer for use in all muzzleloading firearms to be legal. I don't see any other way to read it.
I am still waiting for a response from WDFW but I presume Cabelas checked with them before printing their information. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out pellets are illegal in Washington's attempts to keep muzzleloading as a primitive method.
Post by: bobcat on November 18, 2013, 03:38:58 PM
To meet the requirements a muzzleloader must use black powder or a black powder substitute. Pyrodex, Triple 7, and others are black powder substitutes. They are legal, whether in loose or pellet form.
Don't make this more complicated than it is. If the state intended for pellets to be illegal, the law would specifically say so.
Post by: Bob33 on November 18, 2013, 03:41:26 PM
I seriously doubt that is the intent of the WAC. I suspect that pellets were not even around when that portion of the WAC was written. I have never heard of anyone being cited for using pellets in Washington.
You cannot escape the possibility that some officer, somewhere, sometime, will decide to enforce this literally as you have done, and cite you. A letter from WDFW will do you no good, if the information provided conflicts with a judge's view. That's been proven on here, many times.
You could have 50 officers tell you they are legal, but the 51st may view it otherwise.
Your options as I see them are (a) go ahead and use the pellets with 99.99% confidence that you will never have an issue, or (b) use something else.
Post by: oneshot12 on November 18, 2013, 04:25:06 PM