Post by: DeArBuCK4me on November 20, 2013, 10:18:19 AM
Do you believe this? [/b]
he claims to have evidence.
Didn't appear to me like he was joking.
It would explain why so few deer? IDK
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 20, 2013, 10:22:01 AM
I think the cougar population is the main reason for the low deer population up there. It was astounding to me how few deer we saw there several years back.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 20, 2013, 10:23:18 AM
Show it
He may not be joking, just uninformed or worse. :tinfoil:
There may be wolves. Whether they were transplanted by the gubmint is another story altogether.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 20, 2013, 10:23:41 AM
Post by: B-Nut on November 20, 2013, 10:24:52 AM
Post by: jackelope on November 20, 2013, 10:27:39 AM
A couple wolves is not going to explain a total lack of deer, especially in an area like you're talking about. Maybe an impact on the herd over in the Methow or a place like that, but not in Western Washington.
While I haven't seen any actual proof of this in the 418 I saw an older lady driving pretty deep into the woods with two large kennels that had some large "huskies" in them. Wasn't sure what to make of it as she went farther than we went.
:yike:
There's a huge, obvious, unmistakeable difference between a husky and a wolf.
:twocents:
Post by: seth30 on November 20, 2013, 10:34:46 AM
Post by: DeArBuCK4me on November 20, 2013, 10:37:30 AM
The old lady was a game warden in disguise....the huskys were the wolves...I knew it!!
Post by: DeArBuCK4me on November 20, 2013, 10:40:29 AM
While I haven't seen any actual proof of this in the 418 I saw an older lady driving pretty deep into the woods with two large kennels that had some large "huskies" in them. Wasn't sure what to make of it as she went farther than we went.
Game wardens are dressing now like old ladys and planting wolves in the bush....
Post by: b0bbyg on November 20, 2013, 10:45:24 AM
I was under the impression that all the ones around ID, OR, WA were Gray wolves which are larger than the ones that were native years back.
Not to stir the pot just curious what he was actually claiming.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 20, 2013, 10:51:23 AM
Post by: Special T on November 20, 2013, 10:54:42 AM
Post by: wildweeds on November 20, 2013, 11:03:05 AM
There ARE wolves in the N 407 and 418. I have seen 4 of them right off hwy 9 by a quarter mile then had the reference of a coyote. 4 wolves 100yards coyote 25 yards. Wolves have been in 418 for a long time, however i think they are likely the "native" ones not the imports from Makesny Valley via ID. There is game but since the advent of no hound hunting bears and cougars have been allowed to explode. Every redneck from Sedro to Sumas had a toyota with a dog box. Now the are much fewer.
Post by: b0bbyg on November 20, 2013, 11:07:08 AM
I may be wrong but I thought Timberwolves were larger than grays :dunno:.
You could be right, I was hoping someone knew for sure. There have been lots of guys on this and other sites that have put in a bit of research on the matter.
I'm down in the SW parts of the state so have not bumped one of these guys yet. Hope its a few more years before it happens.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 20, 2013, 11:07:40 AM
Post by: mulehunter on November 20, 2013, 11:12:19 AM
Post by: DeArBuCK4me on November 20, 2013, 12:55:45 PM
Just curious was he stating "timber wolves" or just wolves.
I was under the impression that all the ones around ID, OR, WA were Gray wolves which are larger than the ones that were native years back.
Not to stir the pot just curious what he was actually claiming.
So yes he was very specific TIMBER WOLVES. he told me that this wolves are huge and he has the evidence...we met for a few minutes and off we went our separate ways.. what I gather from all the conversations here is that the old hunter knows what he is talking about...he has been hunting the area for a long time and even said he used to fish Saar creek but someone planted hybrids( hatchery fish) in it and they killed the cutthroats. :yike: :yike:
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 20, 2013, 01:33:11 PM
Post by: Desert_Rez on November 20, 2013, 01:55:07 PM
Post by: Special T on November 20, 2013, 02:04:33 PM
Post by: wildweeds on November 20, 2013, 02:35:44 PM
When you protect ALL predators deer and elk numbers are going to fall. :twocents::yeah: don't take a wildlife biology degree to know this,just good old common sense.And that can't be taught.Free range 100 chickens in a woodlot and see how many chickens are left in a month.Same science experiment as deer/elk vs cougar/wolves on the adults and cougar/bear/wolves and coyotes on the younguns in the spring.
Post by: B-Nut on November 20, 2013, 05:06:01 PM
I guess there are no enviromental activists in this state that might take it upon themselves to reintroduce an animal.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 20, 2013, 05:14:40 PM
Post by: Birddogman on November 20, 2013, 05:20:59 PM
Post by: jackelope on November 20, 2013, 10:12:12 PM
Is anyone else picturing a full grown timberwolf in frickin dog kennel right now :chuckle: :chuckle:
Being hauled down the road in a Cherokee piloted by an 83 year old little old lady.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on November 20, 2013, 10:52:42 PM
I have heard them in 418, but 407 is a real possibility too. Low deer numbers would seem to be more of a wolf problem than a cougar (JMO). Cougar may go 3-5 day without a meal and often they are solitary. Dog pack has a lot of mouths to feed. Either way the wolf numbers will increase in our state, too many voters on the westside love the majestic Gray wolf......... :bash:Bears kill a lot of fawns. Yotes kill deer, and since Sierra Pacific won't allow anyone through the gates to hunt either, there are going to be predator kills. Cats are on the rise. I don't care what WDFW says! Yes, there are a few Greys in 418, (over the years, I've seen a few), and I wouldn't be surprised at a few in 407 in the foot hills and above. But there haven't been signs in the lowlands of 407.
-Steve
Post by: DeArBuCK4me on November 21, 2013, 06:21:26 AM
Post by: B-Nut on November 21, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
Lol, when I say older I mean 40 to 50 you old farts :chuckle:.
Post by: TommyH on November 21, 2013, 07:44:40 AM
Post by: furiouzgeorge on November 21, 2013, 07:54:29 AM
I have heard them in 418, but 407 is a real possibility too. Low deer numbers would seem to be more of a wolf problem than a cougar (JMO). Cougar may go 3-5 day without a meal and often they are solitary. Dog pack has a lot of mouths to feed. Either way the wolf numbers will increase in our state, too many voters on the westside love the majestic Gray wolf......... :bash:Bears kill a lot of fawns. Yotes kill deer, and since Sierra Pacific won't allow anyone through the gates to hunt either, there are going to be predator kills. Cats are on the rise. I don't care what WDFW says! Yes, there are a few Greys in 418, (over the years, I've seen a few), and I wouldn't be surprised at a few in 407 in the foot hills and above. But there haven't been signs in the lowlands of 407.
-Steve
I hunted behind Sierra Pacific gates a month ago. Do you mean the gates are closed to vehicle traffic or closed for any traffic?
Post by: DeArBuCK4me on November 21, 2013, 08:29:33 AM
I have heard them in 418, but 407 is a real possibility too. Low deer numbers would seem to be more of a wolf problem than a cougar (JMO). Cougar may go 3-5 day without a meal and often they are solitary. Dog pack has a lot of mouths to feed. Either way the wolf numbers will increase in our state, too many voters on the westside love the majestic Gray wolf......... :bash:Bears kill a lot of fawns. Yotes kill deer, and since Sierra Pacific won't allow anyone through the gates to hunt either, there are going to be predator kills. Cats are on the rise. I don't care what WDFW says! Yes, there are a few Greys in 418, (over the years, I've seen a few), and I wouldn't be surprised at a few in 407 in the foot hills and above. But there haven't been signs in the lowlands of 407.
-Steve
I hunted behind Sierra Pacific gates a month ago. Do you mean the gates are closed to vehicle traffic or closed for any traffic?
Just curious now---are you the guy who was yelling at us for taking out ATV up the hill on opening day of early season? all is cool if you are. I know you you said you were sorry later on. :hello:
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on November 21, 2013, 09:00:21 AM
-Steve
Post by: undertoad on November 21, 2013, 09:01:41 PM
Post by: Special T on November 22, 2013, 06:49:43 AM
Post by: Birddogman on November 23, 2013, 05:37:09 PM
Undertoad, they may be the same SPECIES but not the same sub species. This is part of the big LIE that makes me >:( . It is claimed that Northern McKennsy Grey wolves are the SAME as the Native rocky Mt wolf... When the discrepancies are shown the USFS claims a wolf is a wolf! YET right now Mexican RED wolves are considered a subspecies that need special protection in the SW. This double standard shows the agenda IMO.
:yeah:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on November 23, 2013, 05:54:12 PM
Post by: furiouzgeorge on November 23, 2013, 06:29:37 PM
All kidding aside, where my son and I were is closed to motor vehicles.
Post by: Bob33 on November 23, 2013, 06:45:19 PM
Undertoad, they may be the same SPECIES but not the same sub species. This is part of the big LIE that makes me >:( . It is claimed that Northern McKennsy Grey wolves are the SAME as the Native rocky Mt wolf... When the discrepancies are shown the USFS claims a wolf is a wolf! YET right now Mexican RED wolves are considered a subspecies that need special protection in the SW. This double standard shows the agenda IMO.Many consider them the same.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/rsg/profile.html?action=elementDetail&selectedElement=AMAJA01030 (http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/rsg/profile.html?action=elementDetail&selectedElement=AMAJA01030)
"Prior to European settlement, the gray wolf, sometimes called the timber wolf, inhabited most of North America south to at least 20° latitude (Mech 1995)."
http://www.nwf.org/wildlife/wildlife-library/mammals/gray-wolf.aspx (http://www.nwf.org/wildlife/wildlife-library/mammals/gray-wolf.aspx)
"The gray or timber wolf's story is one of the most compelling tales of American wildlife. "
http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/kidsonly/wolfweb/wolf1.htm (http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/kidsonly/wolfweb/wolf1.htm)
"Timber wolves, also called gray wolves, are the largest wild members of the dog family."
http://www.livescience.com/27909-wolves.html (http://www.livescience.com/27909-wolves.html)
"The gray wolf (Canis lupus lycaon), also known as the timber wolf, is the largest wild member of the dog family."
etc.
Post by: undertoad on November 24, 2013, 05:19:37 PM
Undertoad, they may be the same SPECIES but not the same sub species. This is part of the big LIE that makes me >:( . It is claimed that Northern McKennsy Grey wolves are the SAME as the Native rocky Mt wolf... When the discrepancies are shown the USFS claims a wolf is a wolf! YET right now Mexican RED wolves are considered a subspecies that need special protection in the SW. This double standard shows the agenda IMO.
:yeah:
I don't mean to be argumentative, but where I grew up in MN and WI, the terms "gray wolf" and "timber wolf" were both used interchangeably and did not indicate any particular subspecies. The wolves were never really extirpated from those areas, so I believe that is correct usage of the two terms. If you mean some subspecies from the Mackenzie, then you should specify that. That is all I meant to point out.
Post by: Special T on November 25, 2013, 07:33:44 AM
Post by: DeArBuCK4me on November 25, 2013, 12:06:06 PM
probably prison time plus fine. :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: