Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: Mr Mac on November 22, 2013, 04:12:28 PM

Title: Muzzleloader
Post by: Mr Mac on November 22, 2013, 04:12:28 PM: Please help me make sure I have this right. I have an inline (Traditions Tracker 209) muzzleloader I use to hint deer here in the Midwest. Because it uses "Primers designed to be used in modern cartridges" it is not legal for use in WA. Am I correct in that? Mind you, I have no qualms about using it during the modern firearms seasons or just for target shooting at the range, and, God only knows I could always use a new rifle in the safe!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi192.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz112%2Fjaguars_fan%2FStuff%2FDSC00041-1.jpg&hash=60126c0fe3c3ee5bd9a128408fc68471e64a56d9)

Mac
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: syoungs on November 22, 2013, 04:29:01 PM: I have the exact gun.

to make it legal, pull off the scope and go back to iron sights, or the stock sights if you have them, and get a replacement nipple that takes #11 caps.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Sabotloader on November 22, 2013, 04:40:24 PM: Mr Mac

I think he meant to tell you that you need a different breech plug so that a cap nipple can be screwed into it. But then again maybe your 209 primer adapter just screws out...

The other thing does your 209 hammer work with a cap ignition? not sure on that one...
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Bookworm007 on November 22, 2013, 05:29:13 PM: I have an identical gun. Go to Traditions sight and order a breach plug made to take a threaded nipple, also get some no 11 nipples. Take off the scope and you are legal for washington. Unless you want to use it during Mod Firearm then you are good to go.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Sagebrushwilly on November 22, 2013, 06:08:53 PM: On the Traditions web site they show the Tracker 209 and also the Tracker NorthWest
Magnum. The magnum comes with a Musket cap system to make it legal in the
Western states. The 209 gun even has "209" engraved on the barrel.

Looking at Tracker 209 rifles on Gunbroker with the bolt closed, it does not appear
that the nipple would be exposed.
Looking up Traditions breech plugs, everything is for 209 ignition. The standard
Traditions breech plug lists inline rifles and does not show the Tracker rifle.

Just from these observations, I would say it probably cannot be converted to be legal for WA. I've been known to be wrong tho.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Bookworm007 on November 25, 2013, 09:11:09 AM: There is a small hole in the bolt that keeps the primer exposed to the elements when the bolt is in the forward position. When the bolt is cocked The whole break plug is exposed.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Mr Mac on November 26, 2013, 05:57:08 AM: I guess I can always keep the Tracker 209 as it is for modern firearms season and maybe go ahead and just pick up Tradiitions Deerhunter (https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/product/Deerhunter-.50-cal-percussion-select-hardwood-blued) sidelock model.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: arees on November 26, 2013, 06:58:23 AM: From what I read of your original post, you can't possibly convert this into a legal hunting rifle in Washington and you shouldn't even investigate it. You definitely need a new gun for your safe!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: syoungs on November 26, 2013, 08:43:21 PM: Quote from: arees on November 26, 2013, 06:58:23 AM
From what I read of your original post, you can't possibly convert this into a legal hunting rifle in Washington and you shouldn't even investigate it. You definitely need a new gun for your safe!

I got my feathers ruffled reading this reply....

Then I saw what you did there :IBCOOL: :tup:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Mr Mac on November 27, 2013, 07:19:52 AM: It actually took a second look for me as well and once I did I found it to be excellent advice and even have the wife's support in it! Woo hoo! :tup:
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on November 28, 2013, 07:02:11 PM: the other issue being that its an inline muzzleloader which encloses the cap from the weather... which is NOT legal in Washington state.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Mr Mac on November 28, 2013, 08:22:11 PM: Actually, with the bolt locked back and the rifle is ready to fire (safety on or off), the primer or cap is exposed to the elements. Only when you fire the rifle is the primer/cap enclosed.

This is, of course, assuming you are referring to this section;

a Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock,
flintlock, or percussion using original
style percussion caps that fit on the
nipple and are exposed to the weather
"Exposed to the weather" means the
percussion cap or the frizzen must
be visible and not capable of being
enclosed by an integral part of the
weapon proper Primers designed to be
used in modern cartridges are not legal
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on November 28, 2013, 08:27:47 PM: With it locked forward is the cap at all exposed to the elements? If not then it is capable of being enclosed.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Whitelightning on November 28, 2013, 08:31:32 PM: Mr Mac, you are exactly correct ready to fire as long as he removes the scope installs fiber optic peep or blade sites and changes to Musket or #11 caps (requires a nipple change) he is LEGAL.

Inline Muzzle Loaders are LEGAL in Washington state.

Locked forward is not ready to fire.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Whitelightning on November 28, 2013, 08:33:04 PM: Quote from: 10thmountainarcher on November 28, 2013, 08:27:47 PM
With it locked forward is the cap at all exposed to the elements? If not then it is capable of being enclosed.

Then if this is true I cant use my side lock because with the hammer down the nipple is enclosed as well!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on November 28, 2013, 08:53:48 PM: Where at in the regs does it say ready to fire? I just looked quickly again and didn't see anything about being ready to fire it just says ""Exposed to the weather means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon." I'm not in the WDFW, but my understanding is that the bolt is a very integral part of the weapon, and that if it is down and encloses the cap completely from the elements it is not legal. I could be way wrong here, but that is my understanding of the law. I'd say if you want to be somewhat safe get in contact with the WDFW. Again it says not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon, if the bolt encompasses and shields it from the elements, to me that means it is VERY capable of enclosing the cap.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: bobcat on November 28, 2013, 08:56:44 PM: I would agree. It sounds to me like that particular muzzleloader is not legal to hunt with in this stste.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Sabotloader on November 28, 2013, 09:19:46 PM: 10thmountainarcher

The Washington Rule..

a. Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock,
flintlock, or percussion using original
style percussion caps that fit on the
nipple and are exposed to the weather.
"Exposed to the weather" means the
percussion cap or the frizzen must
be visible and not capable of being
enclosed by an integral part of the
weapon proper. Primers designed to be
used in modern cartridges are not legal.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: snowshoes22 on November 28, 2013, 09:22:32 PM: I hunt with the same gun. There is a hole that exposes the nipple and cap when the bolt is closed. Just get a #11 nipple screw it in and hunt. I have been checked by the wdfw with no problems. This gun fires from an open bolt position no hammer.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: snowshoes22 on November 28, 2013, 09:26:10 PM: I don't have a pic handy but the top of the reciever under his scope is completely open.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: Sabotloader on November 28, 2013, 09:30:34 PM: Traditions Tracker 209 with percussion nipple installed

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.4990143263474979%26amp%3Bw%3D199%26amp%3Bh%3D185%26amp%3Bc%3D7%26amp%3Brs%3D1%26amp%3Bpid%3D1.7&hash=d56ce8cc97b703496e43f51ff055669ae659c989)
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: snowshoes22 on November 28, 2013, 09:41:05 PM: Get one of these
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: snowshoes22 on November 28, 2013, 09:42:07 PM: Get a couple I have had them break
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: snowshoes22 on November 28, 2013, 09:46:40 PM: With the bolt closed. If it had a cap on it it would be visible.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on November 28, 2013, 09:49:36 PM: Quote from: snowshoes22 on November 28, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
With the bolt closed. If it had a cap on it it would be visible.

Definitely looks legal per the regs!