Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Bird Dogs => Topic started by: scrminbanshee on November 30, 2013, 09:51:40 PM
-
So i know i dont post allot but thought i would ask for everybody opinion. I have one airedale that i rescued about three years ago and happened to come across a 14week old about a week ago. The three year old is a great house dog but is terrified of loud noises. The puppy seems to be an ok pup so far in need of allot of training, but what pup doesn't. I would like to be able to take him out after grouse,maybe some pheasant and quail. It would be mostly to shoot over and let him be a dog he doesn't need to retrieve. I guess the main question is whats been the best way you have seen to introduce a pup to gun shot? Been doing allot of research and since i live in the city im leaning towards going out every couple days with the wife and shooting a 22 like 75yrds away while she gives him treats and lots of loving. Figured start out slow and work our way up to a 12 gauge and work our way up to shooting over him. Also going to pick up some of the grouse scent stuff and leave a rag in his crate to help get him used to that smell and take a rag out when we go shooting and while he eats so he gets to associate that scent with the gun and food and loving. Any thoughts? heres a couple pics
-
Too cute! I will take that pup off your hands for you! :chuckle:
Sorry, I have no help with breaking them in to gun noise...
-
What the overwhelmingly large number of bird dog people recommend is getting well away from the pup. Have someone else playing with the pup and a dead bird. get the pup engrossed in it and fire a shot from a blank gun about 100 yds away. other's flush a live bird for it and when it get's well away, then fire the bland gun. The way I do it is to take the pup out walking and don't say a word to it. Let it explore and get really interested in anything. Then I have a 22 rifle with me and holding the muzzle just a couple inch's off the ground, fire a shot. The shot will be muffled greatly. If the pup shows any discomfort at all, keep walking but don't fire the gun again for a couple days, then start over. if you do get a negative response, do not comfort the pup if it come's to you, just keep on walking like nothing happened. Most dog's were not gun shy when the owner's got them, the owner's made them that way. Dog's timid to a fault may well be gun shy naturally. I don't think there's any help for them.
-
I've seen banty chickens fix this problem,multiple times on multiple breeds of dogs.Noise sensitivity and timidness might go hand in hand but I had a setter female that was extremely timid and was not the least bit noise sensitive whereas gunfire was concerned.
Dog's timid to a fault may well be gun shy naturally. I don't think there's any help for them.
-
The Airdales are classified in with the spaniels for the hunt test program. I'd pick up a copy of Jim Spencers book "HUP", it's a very good bird dog training book aimed at flushing dogs. I use sections of it for training my GWHP for quartering and retrieving. Jim Spencer was a very active retriever trainer also and has written books on retrievers also.
Good luck with your dog. You might want to check with the Airdale National Club as they have a number of breeders that are active upland users and might be able to give you some tips.
-
With my son's GSP pup he wants his food, so that is what we did with him. Took him out in the backyard, fed him, and started with a .22 rifle, then moved up to him. Next we stepped up to a .22 pistol (louder) and did the same thing. After that it was the 20ga. At the end we could stand next to him. The other day we used pheasants and would throw them and shoot a round at the same time. All he cared about was the bird. It is a process and you have to make everything positive as Don says. When a shot is fired the food handler and the shooter have to act as if everything is normal like this is an everyday occurrence. The pup will be watching you to gauge how you react, so do not comfort him/her in any way. A good book to read is the "The Art of Raising a Puppy" by the Monks of New Skete. It goes in depth to a dogs psych and is well worth it.
-
Well thanks for the replies guys it sure is helpful. I picked up some scent today and he seems to love the smell of grouse! he just kept rolling in the rags and seemed super happy about it. Anyways i also have been showing him a few guns and slowly introducing him to them and giving him lots of love when he sees them. Next weekend i am going to go out and see how he does with a little shooting and with my wife in the truck giving him a ton of love and treats. I hope he is able to stand the nose from some distance and hopefully over the next month i can get him really comfy around the gun shots.
Also i hope to go out next weekend and get a couple birds wether its grouse or ducks so he can start munching on some wings and maybe a whole bird. I hope to be able to get this little guy where he ls interested in birds. I know he wasn't introduced to them when he was a pup and he wont be a dedicated bird dog but hope to have a hunting buddy.Anyways keep the replies coming!
-
Just sayin,,,,,, dogs ain't as smart as people would have you believe, seein a gun ain't jack.................... leave your gun alone for a while and do some more internet research.95% of gun intro is going to call for live clip winged birds,the other 5% is going to be a combo of, shoot over foodbowl, take to gunclub or walk and shoot.
Contact Tuxedo your close enough and he works with off breeds as well as commonly percieved gundog breeds.Your dog is still a puppy and will be for quite some time.
Well thanks for the replies guys it sure is helpful. I picked up some scent today and he seems to love the smell of grouse! he just kept rolling in the rags and seemed super happy about it. Anyways i also have been showing him a few guns and slowly introducing him to them and giving him lots of love when he sees them. Next weekend i am going to go out and see how he does with a little shooting and with my wife in the truck giving him a ton of love and treats. I hope he is able to stand the nose from some distance and hopefully over the next month i can get him really comfy around the gun shots.
Also i hope to go out next weekend and get a couple birds wether its grouse or ducks so he can start munching on some wings and maybe a whole bird. I hope to be able to get this little guy where he ls interested in birds. I know he wasn't introduced to them when he was a pup and he wont be a dedicated bird dog but hope to have a hunting buddy.Anyways keep the replies coming!
-
Well made it out finally and shot over the dog! Looks like he could care less about the gun and more about getting treats and loving. While im not out of the woods yet, he should be able to train up just fine! Also looks like he helps the older dog out with allot of his nervousness which is great. Now to continue on with the training. Oh and also whenever i put bird scent on any of his toys he goes crazy! Looks like he might just turn out to be a decent bird dog!! Thanks a bunch for all the tips guys and please keep them coming. My next big hurdle is to train him to find birds. If only i had a frozen grouse or duck(looks like i need to go hunting!!!). Can someone explain to me how those injectable birds work?
I would like to add that i am still fairly new to bird hunting only been doing it a couple of years and cant wait to get to use this little guy out in the field. Going to head out again later next week to shoot over him a little bit more. Maybe get lucky and score a grouse with him.
-
Takes birds to make a birddog,you should really be getting him interested in finding birds by supplying him with some easy birds.Craigslist for gamebirds or pigeons.Shooting over him for no apparant reason is just a waste of ammo IMO. Put the purchased birds out and get him into them,with some coaxing if you have to.Plant birds and walk with him crosswind on the downwind side obviously,watch his demeanor and direction,if something changes in his youll know he has the scent.If he does not pick it up come in from closer to the bird on the way back.When the bird goes into the air hopefully the dog is all over it hot to trot,fire gun,let dog get bird,let dog carry bird proudly back to the truck if it sees fit,if the dog drops the bird say nothing,pick up bird and call it a day.You will essentially be teaching that dog to quarter to find birds.
Well made it out finally and shot over the dog! Looks like he could care less about the gun and more about getting treats and loving. While im not out of the woods yet, he should be able to train up just fine! Also looks like he helps the older dog out with allot of his nervousness which is great. Now to continue on with the training. Oh and also whenever i put bird scent on any of his toys he goes crazy! Looks like he might just turn out to be a decent bird dog!! Thanks a bunch for all the tips guys and please keep them coming. My next big hurdle is to train him to find birds. If only i had a frozen grouse or duck(looks like i need to go hunting!!!). Can someone explain to me how those injectable birds work?
I would like to add that i am still fairly new to bird hunting only been doing it a couple of years and cant wait to get to use this little guy out in the field. Going to head out again later next week to shoot over him a little bit more. Maybe get lucky and score a grouse with him.
-
How is the training going with your dog? I'm looking into getting a hunting dog as well right now and trying to decide on a breed. I'm leaning strongly towards an Airedale with a Pointing Griffon as a close second. How do you like yours now that you've had it for a while?
-
He is doing pretty good. I have been trying to train him everyday or every other day. I would add i'm not looking for anything to serious, just a pup that will find a down bird, catch one that is trying to run, and to flush one for me. So far he is doing pretty good. When he sees the wing/bird come out he starts to get a bit crazy. I think he really enjoys it which to me is a big part of it. I also have been keeping a rag in his crate that is soaked in the grouse scent and he loves that thing.
I know for some a dog is only for work and i'm sure ill get flamed for this, but for us, a dog is part of my family and a worker second. Also i havn't been training him over real birds like it was mentioned but like i said i'm looking for a dog to just do a couple things.
I was able to get him out on one grouse hunt and we found one bird. I wasn't able to connect but when we got close he started going crazy over the scent. The other thing i have noticed about airedales is that they live up to the hype of being head strong. I've noticed with my older dog and the pup that if they aren't into it, good luck getting him to do it. I have also noticed with airedales is you have to establish that you are in control and don't ever let them think they can be in control, or they walk all over you. I think the pup should work out just fine for me. Im planing on taking him with me when i go hunt a field later this week and on another weekend this month, for ducks. But with his coat he will probably only be in the field for part of the time as he will get to cold otherwise. There coat can be a bit of a pain to keep clean, they pic up burrs and grass seeds so quickly and it takes a while to get it all out of there coat. I hope this helps and as a guy who had many dogs growing up i would have to admit i will never own a different breed of dogs again.
-
If he's a little timid and he likes birds you've got a step up on him. Don't push him to the gun until that dog has had live birds and will chew through a brick wall to get them. I don't know why soo many people are in a big rush with the idea they need to bang pots and pans and shoot cap guns over their little guys.
Take your time. Make him a bird crazy ball of terrier. Get him live birds, as many as it takes. Your dealing with an off breed so, if a lab is a 10 on the easy to train scale, I'd guess terriers fall into the 2-3 range. :)
-
scrminbanshee thanks for all the good info. I completely agree with you on a dog being a part of the family first. After having the dog we have now, I know any canine addition to our family will be completely spoiled. I've noticed similar behavior with our wheaten terrier:
if they aren't into it, good luck getting him to do it.
Everything I've read on this Airedales indicates they are very resilient in cold weather for long periods. Are you just being cautious when you say, But with his coat he will probably only be in the field for part of the time as he will get to cold otherwise.
I don't blame you, but just curious. Thanks again for all the good info and good luck w/ those upcoming hunts. Please let us know how they turn out!
-
I'm probably a bit over cautious. My older one mostly seems to get a bit cold when we are fishing in the rain and its pretty miserable but with his rain coat on, it doesn't bother him nearly as much. He will stay lay up in the bow a shiver for a while but the coat helps allot. Or when i forget the coat he comes and climbs on me to help keep him warm. If they are being active i've never noticed to it to bother him much. i guess what i'm mostly getting at, is that late season duck hunting where they are in and out of the water and then sitting still in the blind, i don't think would be that great for these guys, but then again thats not really what your talking about doing. But with a coat and keeping them moving(as in upland bird hunting) i think they would do great.
Funny you should say you have a wheaten terrier. My wife has never had dogs before and i have had them my whole life and we spent a little over a year researching dogs and meeting people with them. We finally settled on two different breeds, the airedale and the wheaten. Only went with airedale simply because we happen to find the older one in a rescue out of walla walla. Those wheatens sure seem like they would make a great pet.
-
Ya, my wife and I went through a similar process and settled on a wheaten because he does not shed and we met one and loved it's personality. He has really been a great dog and hopefully we'll find him an airedale sibling soon. I appreciate all the info you're relaying.
