Post by: CamoDup on December 04, 2013, 09:43:10 AM
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/16881-epa-closure-of-last-lead-smelting-plant-to-impact-ammunition-production (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/16881-epa-closure-of-last-lead-smelting-plant-to-impact-ammunition-production)
Post by: scout/sniper on December 04, 2013, 09:54:17 AM
I think this is much more insidious than it appears.
Post by: boneaddict on December 04, 2013, 09:56:56 AM
Post by: Wazukie on December 04, 2013, 09:57:44 AM
Post by: CamoDup on December 04, 2013, 09:57:51 AM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 04, 2013, 11:49:50 AM
Post by: scout/sniper on December 04, 2013, 11:52:35 AM
Do a little research on this and you will find that the bullet manufactures say that this will not affect their business at all as they use almost 100% recycled led for manufacturing and not raw material.That's good to hear, thanks.
Post by: Coasthunterjay on December 04, 2013, 11:59:53 AM
Do a little research on this and you will find that the bullet manufactures say that this will not affect their business at all as they use almost 100% recycled led for manufacturing and not raw material.
Yah that and imported lead. I'm glad to see the manufacturers already prepared and not worried about this. Back to hunting down our ever hard to find powder.
Post by: csaaphill on December 07, 2013, 10:33:58 PM
How can a plant that closed down use recycled lead? :bash: NOW they have to import it if it can be used at all damn!
About 145 employees of the Doe Run lead smelter [in Herculaneum, Missouri] learned they will lose their jobs at the end of December because of the plant’s closure, the Doe Run Co. said Wednesday. An additional 73 contractor jobs also will be eliminated.
OH but wait do some research it aint bad it aint bad at all :bash:
the next step is real easy make it only able to use copper or some other form of metal that's already armor peiercing or something that's against the law somewhere somehow then ban that... Boom NO MORE AMMO EVER!
But wait they are using recycled lead :chuckle:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 09, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
December 6, 2013 By Conservative Action Alerts
EPA Thugs used for ‘Backdoor’ Gun-Control
ALERT: Obama uses EPA thugs to shut down lead plant, achieve “backdoor” gun-control. Blast Faxes – Tell Congress to ABOLISH the EPA!
American Conservative,
The ability to exercise our individual rights to “bear arms” is severely hampered without ammunition.
This is to say that government does not need an unconstitutional act of Congress expressly disarming Americans in order to render our ability to defend our persons, families, property, and liberty null – they only have to successfully “dry up the supply” of guns or ammunition, as Dianne Feinstein notoriously put it.
This is why the forced closure of America’s oldest, last-remaining lead smelting plant is so concerning as the metal is essential for the manufacturing of bullets.
When Herculaneum, Missouri’s Doe Run Co. officially shuts its doors on December 31st all domestic ammunition producers will be forced to import their refined lead supplies from other countries.
Simple economics says this could cause the price of ammunition to skyrocket as producers’ new importation costs would be absorbed into each and every round for sale.
This could lead to ammunition being literally “priced” out of our hands… and it’s the direct result of government actions! Obama’s radical Environmental Protection Agency is to blame.
Post by: xd2005 on December 09, 2013, 08:59:45 PM
We previously reported on the closure of the nation's last primary lead smelter due to tightened EPA standards on ambient air quality. As the date for closure of the smelter approaches, there has been a significant amount of speculation concerning the effect of the smelter's closure on the availability and price of ammunition.
According to the United States Geological Survey, lead usage in ammunition makes up only about three percent of lead consumption in the United States. Lead-acid batteries make up the vast majority of U.S. lead consumption, and these batteries are readily recycled. This recycled lead, which will still be able to be smelted in the United States at secondary smelters even after the Herculaneum smelter closes, is the type most often used by ammunition manufacturers.
Speculation about the effect of the Herculaneum smelter's closure has caused a number of ammunition manufacturers, including Sierra and Federal, to issue public statements on their ability to continue to source lead for ammunition production. As Lawrence Keane, the senior vice president and general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, pointed out to Emily Miller of the Washington Times, ammunition producers have known for some time of the impending closure of the Herculaneum smelter and do not believe that the closure will affect production of lead ammunition components.
While the reduction in supply of primary lead from the Herculaneum smelter could mean increased demand for recycled lead, the small increase in demand should be met by existing sources or possibly by a new U.S. smelter using already existing technology that is capable of meeting the new air quality standards.
In any case, the bottom line for consumers is that ammunition producers do not expect the smelter's closure to lead to any imminent impact on the price or availability of lead ammunition components. While many factors can affect the market for ammunition, this particular facility's closure should not have the dramatic impact that some have predicted.
Post by: Wazukie on December 09, 2013, 09:12:10 PM
However cost will go up, and yes this is very much a backdoor ctrl issue for lead is being banned right and left so weather or not they use recycled lead won't matter one diddly squat. Lol recycled lead you a troll? or something trying to downsize the importance of this?WOW :dunno:
How can a plant that closed down use recycled lead? :bash: NOW they have to import it if it can be used at all damn!
About 145 employees of the Doe Run lead smelter [in Herculaneum, Missouri] learned they will lose their jobs at the end of December because of the plant’s closure, the Doe Run Co. said Wednesday. An additional 73 contractor jobs also will be eliminated.
OH but wait do some research it aint bad it aint bad at all :bash:
the next step is real easy make it only able to use copper or some other form of metal that's already armor peiercing or something that's against the law somewhere somehow then ban that... Boom NO MORE AMMO EVER!
But wait they are using recycled lead :chuckle:
Post by: snowpack on December 09, 2013, 09:24:38 PM
Post by: Wazukie on December 09, 2013, 09:39:53 PM
Post by: actionshooter on December 09, 2013, 09:48:08 PM
As said in the report that XD2005 posted, most of the leas that bullet manufacturers use, comes from recycled lead batteries, hence, recycled lead.
That can't be right! You must be a troll! :chuckle:
Post by: JLS on December 09, 2013, 10:04:59 PM
As said in the report that XD2005 posted, most of the leas that bullet manufacturers use, comes from recycled lead batteries, hence, recycled lead.
That can't be right! You must be a troll! :chuckle:
Internet Rule #1:
Never miss a good chance to overreact to speculation/mistruth/rumor 8)
Post by: j_h_nimrod on December 09, 2013, 10:22:08 PM
I still don't understand ammunition manufacturers claims that their prices (and price increases) are a reflection of market values for metals. Take some weights of bullet components and calculate the cost of a bullet based on market prices of metals and then try to figure out why ammo has doubled in price along with the price of metals but the metal only actually makes up about 5% or less of the cost of a bullet.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 10, 2013, 09:48:11 AM
Tungsten is mo better...especially the pointed stuff
Post by: snowpack on December 10, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
Now people are going to start hoarding lead. I can see it now, $10 egg sinkers for halibut fishing if you're lucky enough to find them.As said in the report that XD2005 posted, most of the leas that bullet manufacturers use, comes from recycled lead batteries, hence, recycled lead.
That can't be right! You must be a troll! :chuckle:
Internet Rule #1:
Never miss a good chance to overreact to speculation/mistruth/rumor 8)
Post by: huntrights on December 10, 2013, 10:06:04 AM
Dont need Lead!!!
Tungsten is mo better...especially the pointed stuff
Price of lead: $0.95/lb
Source: http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/lead/all/
Price of tungsten: $21.09/lb
Source: http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/ferro-tungsten/all/
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 10, 2013, 10:32:52 AM
Post by: xd2005 on December 10, 2013, 10:36:17 AM
What about the lead in my pencil ???????
Not quite sure how well a graphite and clay bullet would perform...
Post by: gaddy on December 10, 2013, 10:46:32 AM
Post by: et1702 on December 10, 2013, 11:11:59 AM
ET
Post by: huntrights on December 10, 2013, 12:26:58 PM
What about the lead in my pencil ???????
http://www.pencils.com/blog/lead-in-pencils/ (http://www.pencils.com/blog/lead-in-pencils/)
"... there is no lead in the writing core of a “lead” pencil. The core is made of non-toxic graphite and does not contain lead."
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 10, 2013, 04:00:12 PM
Dont need Lead!!!
Tungsten is mo better...especially the pointed stuff
Price of lead: $0.95/lb
Source: http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/lead/all/
Price of tungsten: $21.09/lb
Source: http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/ferro-tungsten/all/
yeah, but that cheap lead aint gonna punch two 1-1/4" pieces of mild steel plate at 75 yards!!!
Post by: csaaphill on December 10, 2013, 09:15:56 PM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 11, 2013, 08:59:30 AM
Unfortulately, this country headed down the fascist road long ago.
Quote
Influenced by national syndicalism, the first fascist movements emerged in Italy around World War I, combining more typically right-wing positions with elements of left-wing politics, in opposition to communism, socialism, liberal democracy and, in some cases, traditional right-wing conservatism. Although fascism is usually placed on the far right on the traditional left–right spectrum, fascists themselves and some commentators have argued that the description is inadequate.[3][4]
Fascists sought to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that promoted the mass mobilization of the national community,[5][6] and were characterized by having a vanguard party that initiated a revolutionary political movement aiming to reorganize the nation along principles according to fascist ideology.[7] Hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism, fascist movements shared certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism and militarism. Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation
here is the kicker!!! while reading this, keep the motives of the EPA and other fedeal regulating agencies in mind...
Quote
Fascism supports a state-controlled economy that accepts a mix of private and public ownership over the means of production.[167] Economic planning is applied to both the public and private sector in a fascist economy, and the prosperity of private enterprise depended on its acceptance of synchronizing itself with the fascist state's economic goals.[168] It supports the profit motive. However it emphasizes that industries must uphold the national interest as superior to private profit.[168]
Fascism promotes such economics as a "third position" alternative to capitalism and Marxism, as fascism declares both as being obsolete.[169] Such an economic system, is variously termed by fascists as "national corporatism", "national socialism" or "national syndicalism".[23]
Benito Mussolini spoke of this as a "Third Alternative" in 1940 upon Italy's entry into World War II, saying:[169]
This conflict must not be allowed to cancel out all our achievements of the past eighteen years, nor, more importantly, extinguish the hope of a Third Alternative held out by Fascism to mankind fettered between the pillar of capitalist slavery and the post of Marxist chaos.
—Benito Mussolini, 1940.
While fascism accepts the importance of material wealth and power, it condemns materialism that it identifies as being present in both communism and capitalism, and criticizes their materialist basis for lacking acknowledgement of the role of the spirit.[170] In particular, fascism denounces capitalism not because of its competitive nature nor its support of private property that fascism supports; but due to its materialism, individualism, alleged bourgeois decadence, and alleged indifference to the nation.[171] Fascism denounces Marxism for its advocacy of materialist internationalist class identity that fascism regards as an attack upon the emotional and spiritual bonds of nationality and thwarting the achievement of genuine national solidarity.[172] Does this sound familiar regarding the 99%er protests and the current undertones of class warefare in our own society??
Fascism officially advocates resolution to domestic class conflict within a nation to secure national solidarity.[12] While fascism opposes domestic class conflict, fascism believes that bourgeois-proletarian conflict primarily exists in national conflict between proletarian nations versus bourgeois nations.[173] hmmmmm interesting
Benito Mussolini promised a "social revolution" that would "remake" the Italian people. According to Patricia Knight, this was only achieved in part.[174] The people who primarily benefited from Italian fascist social policies were members of the middle and lower-middle classes, who filled jobs in the vastly expanded government workforce, which grew from about 500,000 to 1,000,000 jobs in 1930 alone.[174] Health and welfare spending grew dramatically under Italian fascism, with welfare rising from 7% of the budget in 1930 to 20% in 1940.[175] and here we have it folks...
The Opera Nazionale Dopolavoro (OND) or "National After-work Program" was one major social welfare initiative in Fascist Italy. Created in 1925, it was the state's largest recreational organisation for adults.[176] The Dopolavoro was responsible for establishing and maintaining 11,000 sports grounds, over 6,400 libraries, 800 movie houses, 1,200 theatres, and over 2,000 orchestras.[176] Membership of the Dopolavoro was voluntary, but it had high participation because of its nonpolitical nature.[176] It is estimated that, by 1936, the OND had organised 80% of salaried workers[177] and, by 1939, 40% of the industrial workforce. The sports activities proved popular with large numbers of workers. The OND had the largest membership of any of the mass Fascist organisations in Italy.[178]
The enormous success of the Dopolavoro in Fascist Italy was the key factor in Nazi Germany's creation of its own version of the Dopolavoro, the Kraft durch Freude (KdF) or "Strength through Joy" program of the Nazi government's German Labour Front, which became even more successful than the Dopolavoro.[179] KdF provided government-subsidized holidays for German workers.[180] KdF also lent its name to the original Volkswagen ("People's Car"), a state-manufactured automobile that was purportedly meant to be cheap enough to allow all German citizens to be able to own one.
While fascists promoted social welfare to ameliorate economic conditions affecting their nation or race as a whole, they did not support social welfare for egalitarian reasons. Fascists criticised egalitarianism as preserving the weak. They instead promoted social Darwinist views.[181][182] Adolf Hitler was opposed to egalitarian and universal social welfare because, in his view, it encouraged the preservation of the degenerate and feeble.[183] While in power, the Nazis created social welfare programs to deal with the large numbers of unemployed. However, those programs were neither egalitarian nor universal, excluding many minority groups and other people whom they felt posed a threat to the future health of the German people.
Welcome to the new world order people..
Post by: CamoDup on December 11, 2013, 09:06:52 AM
Post by: csaaphill on December 13, 2013, 12:13:58 PM
I think I'm gunna....... :puke::yeah: