Hunting Washington Forum

Other Activities => Trapping => Topic started by: Hank on December 20, 2013, 08:58:22 PM

Title: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: Hank on December 20, 2013, 08:58:22 PM: So maybe someone on here can weigh in on this. Being a responsible trapper I contacted the land manager for some Snohomish County public property, so I could gain official permission to trap. The land in question is the Surface Water Management Project - Fields Riffle/Norwegian Bay project. I was familiar with the area from Humpy season and I thought it looked promising for Mink and Muskrats.

While scouting the property two days ago I noticed a sign stating public use was authorized, however there was a list of several prohibited activities, to include: Hunting, Shooting, Off Road vehicle use, and open fires. I obtained the managers phone number from the sign also.

So, when I called the number and spoke with the first manager I explained I was a licensed trapper and I was wondering if I could trap the surface water project area. I also explained to the manager that I was aware that hunting was restricted. I further expanded that although hunting was defined within the county code, trapping was not. I also told him that the county's definition of hunting did not include trapping. The man was polite and he let me say my piece, but all he would tell me was, "I am not a lawyer and I will neither grant or deny you permission to trap. So he referred me to a second land manager.

The second land manager wanted to immediately refer me back to the first guy. She was accommodating when i told her I had already spoken with that guy, so she agreed to start an email thread, between her and two other surface water managers, with me CC'd on the thread, so we could sort this out. It's been two days and all I have received is her initial email that I was CC'd on.

Researching this further I have found no RCW, County Code, or published policy saying that I cannot trap this area. The area is very rural, well outside of any city limits and is only used by fishermen during certain salmon runs. My question is, do I trap or not? This land is not a park nor is it developed in any way. Signs on the property say public use is authorized, except for certain restricted activities, trapping not among the restrictions. What would you do? :bash:
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: washelkhunter on December 20, 2013, 09:06:35 PM: Go for it.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: Hank on December 20, 2013, 09:17:13 PM: Has anyone had similar access issues and how did they proceed?
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: idahohuntr on December 20, 2013, 09:21:28 PM: Not for trapping but I've been in similar circumstances where land managers are in a gray area about what may or may not be legal. I would try to meet them face to face if you can...be nice, show them you are informed/responsible and convince them no harm is going to come of your trapping activities. It worked for me.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: bigtex on December 20, 2013, 09:25:36 PM: This isn't going to be a WDFW or RCW "thing" it will be completely on the landowner (Snohomish County) to determine if you can trap or not.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: Hank on December 20, 2013, 09:41:08 PM: I do intend to invite the Surface Water Managers to come and observe my activities. I have information I would like to present to them which explains how regulated legal trapping can be part of conservation. I doubt they will come out or listen, but I will try. The second manager i spoke to actually told me, although she is the manager for the property, she only vaguely had an idea of where the property was.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: KFhunter on December 20, 2013, 09:45:16 PM: Why would you invite scrutiny when clearly it is not one of the prohibited activities listed?

Now you've put it on the radar, depending on the managers whim and aversion to trapping they'll add it to the list.

But more likely what will happen is someone in the email chain will make a stink and it'll be easier to simply decline the request than to approve it and deal with the headache.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: Special T on December 20, 2013, 10:02:56 PM: I applaud you desire to be "legal". I find it appalling that law is so convoluted that the area MGR has no ability to deny or approve an activity. I personally have found that being well versed in the laws or code is much better than asking permission. If you are polite, even if wrong, being well versed will give you the time to cease activity or negotiate a compromise. I find it unfortunate be we have reached a stage where it is better to seek an educated forgiveness than permission. :twocents:
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: KFhunter on December 20, 2013, 10:15:00 PM: This isn't a legal issue, more of a management issue. The manager is a public employee so that muddles things up a little more.

It doesn't become a legal issue until the activity is denied, the OP invited this denial in writing.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: Hank on December 20, 2013, 10:29:55 PM: I think at this stage of the game I am going to set my rat traps and not add further fuel to the fire. Man all this run around just so I can teach my son about renewable resources and manageable wildlife. :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: KFhunter on December 20, 2013, 10:43:12 PM: Quote from: Hank on December 20, 2013, 10:29:55 PM
I think at this stage of the game I am going to set my rat traps and not add further fuel to the fire. Man all this run around just so I can teach my son about renewable resources and manageable wildlife. :bash: :bash:

Maybe just move the lesson from renewable resources and manageable wildlife to a lesson on government :chuckle:
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: Hank on December 21, 2013, 08:02:25 AM: Lesson learned.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: wags on December 21, 2013, 09:21:57 AM: The safest answer for a bureaucrat to give is "NO". Don't expect to get permission. If the regs. don't prohibit it, they'll have a hard time citing you for anything. Just think about it this way. What specific statute are they going to cite you for? trespassing?, no, violating trapping regs.?, no.
Now that we can only use cage traps they have an awfully hard time making an argument for possible harm to pets, kids, etc.
Go trapping
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: Hank on December 21, 2013, 01:23:09 PM: Thank you wags.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: UrbanTrapper on December 21, 2013, 08:22:04 PM: Save the emails and the names of the people you talked to and then trap it. You can already show you made every reasonable effort to find out if trapping was permitted or prohibited and to get permission. Also tell the surface water manager if they have any problems with beaver etc. you'd be glad to help them. I'm impressed the people you spoke to didn't just say, "No" without thinking about it or even knowing if they had the authority to say no.
Title: Re: Public Land Managers Afraid to Make a Decision.
Post by: CementFinisher on December 22, 2013, 02:32:24 PM: start trapping and quit drawing attention to your self and trapping before someone makes a rule that trapping wont be allowed