Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 21, 2013, 04:11:26 PM
Victory Armour Piercing Arrow Promotional Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7CfIGmX-u8#)
90 Yard penetration test with the VAP (Victory Armor Piercing) arrow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_x01o3wUWU#ws)
2011 Arrow Penetration test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GzS-RNLN-I#ws)
Victory VAP Arrow Review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYchsui-O60#ws)
Post by: demontang on December 21, 2013, 05:37:18 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 21, 2013, 05:43:46 PM
The outsert can bend but they generally save the arrow on hard hits. I know the hit inserts tend to let the front of the shaft get damaged. Ive done some comparing between standard gt pro hunter, axis, kinects, and the beman hunter pro. I really didnt see to much different of a penetration in different media between them the axis broke the easiest with the hit inserts even with collars on them. I want to order some and test the vap my self :tup:Yep, thats the word on the street. They look like they will flat blow through some stuff! Probably gonna bite the bullet and give em a run!
Post by: KimWar1911 on December 22, 2013, 01:54:25 AM
Post by: RadSav on December 22, 2013, 05:46:12 AM
You shouldn't get too caught up in the spin of marketing around the penetration differences. Animal bone and tissue is a great difference in regards to the way a broadhead penetrates solid media. The larger diameter outsert is going to show great results in plywood and similar media. But in real life fat, blood, and moisture from other bodily fluids makes it a rather moot point. Proper arrow flight, shaft stiffness, shaft weight and broadhead construction will have a much larger effect on real life animal penetration than diameter and large leading outserts will ever give. So take the conjecture and marketing spin of so called "penetration" tests with a grain of salt. As I can not remember ever shooting an animal with my bow that was hiding behind a piece of plywood, bullet proof glass or sinter blocks.
With that being said I have tested all the Victory arrows extensively. They are under rated as far as consistent quality and straightness. And the higher grade carbon fiber used makes it a much more durable shaft than China produced or French produced products. If Victory had employed the proper people back when they first began their own shaft production I'd expect they would have risen to the top of the market place. Unfortunately they stumbled when it came to hiring. But that is the only thing that really held them back IMO. They have begun to get good people and production, but that huge open window of opportunity they had when they first began has closed to a mere crack.
Victory Archery offers good products at a fair price. Hard to go wrong there! Just don't get caught up in the hype and marketing spin of this penetration because of design garbage. It's a bunch of hooey. However the product beyond that unscientific hooey is reliable quality at an affordable price. :tup:
Post by: Come Get Some on December 22, 2013, 05:53:52 AM
Good arrows made with the best carbon fiber in the industry. These are the guys building carbon parts for Ford, Callaway golf and the department of defense. It's high quality stuff you won't find just anywhere. I do not use them because of some internal issues and I do not like that kind of outsert. But, hey. That's just me.
You shouldn't get too caught up in the spin of marketing around the penetration differences. Animal bone and tissue is a great difference in regards to the way a broadhead penetrates solid media. The larger diameter outsert is going to show great results in plywood and similar media. But in real life fat, blood, and moisture from other bodily fluids makes it a rather moot point. Proper arrow flight, shaft stiffness, shaft weight and broadhead construction will have a much larger effect on real life animal penetration than diameter and large leading outserts will ever give. So take the conjecture and marketing spin of so called "penetration" tests with a grain of salt. As I can not remember ever shooting an animal with my bow that was hiding behind a piece of plywood, bullet proof glass or sinter blocks.
With that being said I have tested all the Victory arrows extensively. They are under rated as far as consistent quality and straightness. And the higher grade carbon fiber used makes it a much more durable shaft than China produced or French produced products. If Victory had employed the proper people back when they first began their own shaft production I'd expect they would have risen to the top of the market place. Unfortunately they stumbled when it came to hiring. But that is the only thing that really held them back IMO. They have begun to get good people and production, but that huge open window of opportunity they had when they first began has closed to a mere crack.
Victory Archery offers good products at a fair price. Hard to go wrong there! Just don't get caught up in the hype and marketing spin of this penetration because of design garbage. It's a bunch of hooey. However the product beyond that unscientific hooey is reliable quality at an affordable price. :tup:
Good response. I agree. Too much Pro this or Pro that in the market now days. Straightness ,proper spine and good broadhead choice will be the key. If you have to have a special penetration outsert I might question why that is necessary . ACC 371 is heavy but very consistant and durable.
Post by: RadSav on December 22, 2013, 06:04:20 AM
Post by: bullcanyon on December 22, 2013, 06:24:43 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2013, 09:35:38 AM
Good arrows made with the best carbon fiber in the industry. These are the guys building carbon parts for Ford, Callaway golf and the department of defense. It's high quality stuff you won't find just anywhere. I do not use them because of some internal issues and I do not like that kind of outsert. But, hey. That's just me.Good stuff Rad. Anytime a company is paying a guys bills, I always take what they are saying with a grain of salt. I have been reading reviews and crunching numbers all of yesterday. If I shoot a 125gr head with a luminock I get a 435gr arrow with a FOC of 15.02% I have been shooting 50gr brass inserts to get a better FOC in my current setup but I am losing some speed because of it. I am by no means a speed guy but if I can have best of both worlds thats a win win. Like you said before, they are top quality carbon and straight as an.....arrow! :chuckle:
You shouldn't get too caught up in the spin of marketing around the penetration differences. Animal bone and tissue is a great difference in regards to the way a broadhead penetrates solid media. The larger diameter outsert is going to show great results in plywood and similar media. But in real life fat, blood, and moisture from other bodily fluids makes it a rather moot point. Proper arrow flight, shaft stiffness, shaft weight and broadhead construction will have a much larger effect on real life animal penetration than diameter and large leading outserts will ever give. So take the conjecture and marketing spin of so called "penetration" tests with a grain of salt. As I can not remember ever shooting an animal with my bow that was hiding behind a piece of plywood, bullet proof glass or sinter blocks.
With that being said I have tested all the Victory arrows extensively. They are under rated as far as consistent quality and straightness. And the higher grade carbon fiber used makes it a much more durable shaft than China produced or French produced products. If Victory had employed the proper people back when they first began their own shaft production I'd expect they would have risen to the top of the market place. Unfortunately they stumbled when it came to hiring. But that is the only thing that really held them back IMO. They have begun to get good people and production, but that huge open window of opportunity they had when they first began has closed to a mere crack.
Victory Archery offers good products at a fair price. Hard to go wrong there! Just don't get caught up in the hype and marketing spin of this penetration because of design garbage. It's a bunch of hooey. However the product beyond that unscientific hooey is reliable quality at an affordable price. :tup:
Post by: buckfvr on December 22, 2013, 10:00:55 AM
Post by: Button Nubbs on December 22, 2013, 10:17:30 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2013, 10:33:09 AM
If the shooter does his part, virtually any quality shaft and broadhead will deliver the same results......I know things dont always go as planned, but I dont think you can count on any shaft out there to right a wrong. :twocents:If a shooter does his part than you could shoot field tips cause they will puncture lungs too. I didn't imply that they would or that that was my goal. Concept is no different than with bullets. An all lead bullet through both lungs will kill an animal just as dead as a Nosler Accubond. That being said though, when that all lead bullet impacts the offside shoulder on that quartering away shot, it might pancake out and stop where as the high quality bonded bullet will most likely punch through giving you a broken shoulder and an exit wound. Same concept with arrows. Why not shoot the best there is?
Not saying the VAP's are the best out there but from what I have read, they are an absolutely top quality product made with the finest materials and some of the tightest tolerances in the industry. I have been part of hundreds of kills and I have seen bullets and arrows do some crazy things. I have seen cheap bullets fail, and good bullets fail. I have seen arrows do stuff that make you scratch your head and say "what?". I've seen broadheads that become field tips on impacting hide (makes for a terrifying gutting job) One thing I have learned in this world though is that a good rule of thumb is you get what you pay for. :twocents:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2013, 10:34:22 AM
I don't have any expierence with vap's but I shoot the x-ringer hv for 3d. Victory makes a great product and as rad said underrated imo.Thank you :tup:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2013, 10:35:28 AM
Post by: JPhelps on December 22, 2013, 10:41:40 AM
I have never shot a tougher arrow (gold tip pro hutner, Easton Axis, Beman ICS hunter, Easton injexion and Carbon Express)
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2013, 10:47:17 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2013, 10:53:23 AM
The Black Eagles are straight, tough, and have a consistent spine. Plus they are more affordable to other arrows with similar specs. They have also developed a stainless steel half out that I can wait to use on my next order of Rampage.Finally!!!! A company that realizes the importance of having an arrow designed specifically for Zombie killing!!!!!! :chuckle:
I have never shot a tougher arrow (gold tip pro hutner, Easton Axis, Beman ICS hunter, Easton injexion and Carbon Express)
Post by: buckfvr on December 22, 2013, 10:53:57 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2013, 11:08:14 AM
I know you know what you're doing, just threw that out there as a result of my years of hindsight..........Ive shot and still have a variety of shafts and still mix it up depending on how I feel, but looking back at what shafts and broadheads have done what, I see clearly that I was a marketers dream.........bought more stuff, oh man..........Hey if a guy doesn't buy a bunch of stuff then what is he gonna pile up on every shelf in the garage and never use! :chuckle: I wouldn't dare throw away my old XX75 2317's! You never know when you will have to bust out the Fred Bear Whitetail and fling some aluminums :chuckle:
Post by: buckfvr on December 22, 2013, 11:36:36 AM
Post by: demontang on December 22, 2013, 12:50:29 PM
Post by: RadSav on December 22, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
Since we are talking arrows, whats your favorite go to shaft Rad?
I've been debating that a lot lately. Trying to decide if I will be making a change in 2014.
Currently if shooting out of state or under 63# in Washington it's the CE Maxima shaft. Can't shoot it in Washington at 70#, but everywhere else in the US and Canada it works great. It's been the most consistent in 360 degree spine, weight and straightness of any all carbon arrow I've ever shot. But their nocks are crap, so I use Easton Micro-Lite nocks on them. They are a little brittle so I buy them three dozen at a time. And the darn company changes their design about every time I want more arrows so that leaves me frustrated.
In Washington state I can never make up my mind. Seems to be a daily decision which bow to get out of the truck. One is set up with the CE Maxima Hunter KV shafts and the other with Easton ACC Pro. Both those shafts are chosen for the same reasons - straightness, consistency of spine and incredibly accurate in a Washington legal arrow.
I don't shoot 70# much any more because the newer bow designs don't require it. It's sort of nice too as I can shoot the same spine arrow as I used to, but now the Maxima shaft is legal at 62-63# shooting the same speed as my 70# bows that shot the same shaft. Sort of makes the Washington 6 grain rule ridiculous and outdated as a guy shooting a modern bow at 62# can shoot the Maxima 350 arrow legal and faster than a guy shooting a five year old 70# bow and the same arrow is illegal at a slower speed.
My most recent bows (Bear Motive 7 and Bowtech Experience) need a 300 spine if I shoot them at 70#. Most of the Carbon Express shafts I like are not available in a 300 spine. So unless I want to start shooting the Pile Driver or the camo Maxima Hunter I need to start looking at other shafts as my "Go To" shafts for Washington 70# legal arrows. That leads me to contemplate going back to shooting the Easton ACC or FMJ. I'm not thrilled about supporting them again due to their lack of customer respect. But those two shafts are so dang hard to beat for consistent spine and straightness I'm finding it hard not to.
I don't think I will ever shoot an Easton all carbon arrow as they are some of the worst I've tested in regards to spine quality and straightness. I'd shoot Goldtip before shooting the Easton all carbon shafts. And the thought of that turns my stomach. With Jason and Cory/xXx becoming fans of the Black Eagle shafts I'll probably get a few dozen this year and test them again in more depth. The first ones I got were very early in the company's development and they failed my testing. Would not be fair to judge them one way or another without testing again now that they have had time to work out the bugs.
I will be surprised if come this time next year I am shooting anything other than CE or Easton ACC's. They aren't flashy or hip in todays market. But, we have a history of just plain and simple whacking animals with them near and far. And when I throw them on the spine tester I find I'm actually in disbelief when one does not get an "A" rating. That's important to me. And my reason for chosing them the past ten years as my "Go To" arrow shafts of choice.