Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: packmule on December 22, 2013, 07:53:56 PM

Title: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: packmule on December 22, 2013, 07:53:56 PM: I've been shooting a recurve for a month or so and really enjoying it. I don't have a lot of experience with archery so I'm trying to figure out what good accuracy is with a traditional bow....so far I can hit a paperplate sized target with most arrows from 25 to 30 yards, beyond that it's still pretty shaky. For some of you traditional archers out there, what is good accuracy at say 30 yards.....paperplate sized groups, softball sized groups, golf ball sized groups??? Any insights you have would be helpful.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: mountainman on December 22, 2013, 08:39:04 PM: For only a month of shooting, that is definetly pretty good shooting. Just stay consistent with your form on every shot, the keep the arrows flinging! Subconcious will take over and your accuracy will only increase!
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: demontang on December 22, 2013, 09:21:34 PM: Keep at it. If I shoot traditional very much with a good bow I can hit arrows together every shot at 20yds. Focus on form and make sure you draw the same every time. Be sure you release the same every time too:tup: easier said then done :chuckle:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Jellymon on December 22, 2013, 09:27:10 PM: I need some tips as well. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: demontang on December 22, 2013, 09:40:08 PM: Lol form is key
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: MLBowhunting on December 22, 2013, 09:42:41 PM: Here's my group from 55 yards
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: packmule on December 22, 2013, 10:02:13 PM: Good tips all, thanks. Jellymon, I've seen groups like that :chuckle: MLB, thanks that's helpful. Very impressive at 55 yds....I've been amazed at the arrow drop around 30-35 yds....seems like I'm consistently hitting low at that range...I'm sure having fun though!
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: MLBowhunting on December 22, 2013, 10:10:31 PM: Lots of reps. Keep working at it :tup:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Old Dog on December 23, 2013, 09:04:43 AM: You might want to try feathers instead of plastic for your vanes. Feathers are a lot more forgiving. :twocents:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Sandberm on December 23, 2013, 09:33:53 AM: I think consistently hitting a paper plate at 25-30 yds is pretty good shooting.

Theres days where I'm good to 25 yds. Further out then 25 and my arrows start to drop a little faster and get more eratic. But I shoot wood shafts that I make up myself and sometimes I think my arrow making abilities could use some improvement.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: mlovely83 on December 23, 2013, 09:34:09 AM: Quote from: Jellymon on December 22, 2013, 09:27:10 PM
I need some tips as well. :chuckle:

Need to tune your Bow. Arrow shouldn't be pointing down unless you are practicing in a tree stand.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Jellymon on December 23, 2013, 09:38:13 AM: Quote from: mlovely83 on December 23, 2013, 09:34:09 AM
Quote from: Jellymon on December 22, 2013, 09:27:10 PM
I need some tips as well. :chuckle:

Need to tune your Bow. Arrow shouldn't be pointing down unless you are practicing in a tree stand.

It was a joke. I got that pic off the internet. :tup:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: ravdakot on December 23, 2013, 09:58:05 AM: +1 on feathers over vanes if your shooting off the shelf or a flipper rest. Aside from that it sounds like your on the right track!

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Hornseeker on December 23, 2013, 10:09:59 AM: Hit arrows together every shot at 20 yards? Damn dude... you ever think about serious competition? If you can do that, you can win the indoor worlds... easy...

Packmule... if you can put your arrows... consistently, on a paper plate (8 inches) at 25-30 yards... with only a month of shooting... you are doing fantastic... as mentioned, being consistent is very important. What wasn't mentioned though, was that consistently doing something wrong, will not help you improve. There are right and wrong ways to shoot... at least, I think so...and so do many serious archers... search the net for some information about shooting form and such... find some videos...

However, you are doing something right if you are shooting that good already. I know guys that have shot for "decades" that could only hit a paper plate one out of every ten shots at 30yards...

Good shooting? 20 yards... softball... That is good shooting. If you can keep them in a 3 inch ring at 20... you are a great shot.... or moreso...

30 yards.... 6 inches is good shooting. Softball is great...

50 yards.... if you can keep them on a paper plate you are one of VERY few... only serious target archers will best you.

Keep in mind... im talking about consistently hitting these marks. Everyone will have a flyer now and again... but if some guy gets lucky and puts 5 arrows on a paper plate at 50 yards, but cant do that again in his next 10 ends.... thats not what Im talking about. Im' talking about 90% plus of your groups meeting these marks.

Keep it up! Its a FUN challenge.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: demontang on December 23, 2013, 10:57:29 AM: I have thought of competion but my shoulders cant take shooting traditional for to long before they give. Ive tried doing a run at shooting enough arrows for a comp and half way throw I loss my grouping. Im getting into comp with a compound now :tup:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Hornseeker on December 23, 2013, 02:46:53 PM: That sucks! But anyhow, you got some skilz... and they will carry right over to compound shooting... Good Luck.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: packmule on December 23, 2013, 03:35:10 PM: Hornseeker, thank you very much for your post, those are exactly the benchmarks I was trying to obtain....will help greatly for setting my skill development goals! Yes, it is a fun challenge...and addicting. Late last night I was moving my wife's car out of the garage so that I could shoot from the driveway into the lighted garage. A great new hobby....
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: RadSav on December 23, 2013, 03:36:13 PM: Softball sized groups at 30 yards should and can be accomplished by just about any serious traditional archer. The big obstacle in traditional shooting is concentration. Ever hear the term, "Aim little - miss little, aim big - miss big"? It really is true when shooting without sights!

The other two things that really get most when shooting traditional is follow through and relax release;

Most archers want to see their arrows hit the target. When shooting without a sight it's so dang easy to jump from aiming to looking. For a right handed shooter this usually leads to those low left flyers. Try to keep your bow and focus on center and watch the spot for your arrow to appear. This should greatly increase your consistency.

The biggest form related mistake most traditional archers make when shooting is to try and open the fingers on their drawing hand. I guarantee you will never open your hand exactly the same six times in a row. I'd say it is such an impossibility that most guys who do this and shoot 10" groups at 30 yards could easily shoot 3" groups if they would simply stop trying to let go of the string.

To properly release when shooting fingers try thinking of your fingers as the hook or pin on a mechanical release. You don't try to throw those open. The string does that! When you are ready to shoot the release sear is to simply relax the hand and fingers together. The tension of the string will then just push them aside like they are a mere annoyance. And best of all this is an extremely repeatable action. Even more repeatable if you switch to a good quality tab instead of finger gloves. A tab with an anti pinch devise even better!
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: GermanShorthair on December 23, 2013, 03:39:31 PM: On accuracy it depends on your style of shooting.. Are you instinctual or seeing down the arrow. For instinctual that is some good shooting
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 23, 2013, 03:51:05 PM: That's pretty good shooting right off the bat. I don't really shoot my trad bows past 30. I will at 3d shoots but I practice to 30 with them constantly.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: RadSav on December 23, 2013, 03:57:54 PM: You are going to be amazed at how good you are with a shotgun once you master this whole traditional archery thing!

I see a Beretta Silver Pigeon in your future :hunt2:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: packmule on December 23, 2013, 04:27:25 PM: Radsav, thanks much...the relax release makes great sense. I'll give that a try. I think my shooting form and follow through are ok, I took an archery class in college and had a good friend who passed away a few years back who was very serious about traditional archery, they both were very helpful to teach me some of the basics, but that was at least 15 years ago and I've never had a bow of my own to shoot, so the past month has been a real learning experience.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: scotsman on December 23, 2013, 07:24:32 PM: Form is perhaps even more important with trad bows then compounds because the arrow takes longer to clear the rest or shelf. Most archers realize that, but ignore the equally important fact that the bow and arrows must be tuned. Why?

Because if the equipment isn't well matched and tuned the arrow may not be consistently be going where the archer is pointing it. Without consistent grouping you can't tell wether a miss is your fault or caused by mismatched equipment.

To see an example, go to a YouTube post I did recently. For some reason this site won't accept a direct link from my iPad. Its worth a look so do a youtube search for '30 yard bare shaft test'. If someone can get it to post here I'd appreciate it!

Thx,

Dave R
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: packmule on December 23, 2013, 07:48:45 PM: OK scotsman, I will look for that.

To everyone who has posted, thank you for the advice and perspectives, I've received a lot of good information from you all.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: scotsman on December 23, 2013, 08:05:53 PM: If you would like some person to person tutorial, I have done quite a bit of coaching traditional archers. I'm in Gig Harbor and have a range at my house... No charge of course.

I'll try that link again. Check out this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OofNpoc9lU8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Dave
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: TONTO on December 23, 2013, 08:22:08 PM: Form is everything, consistancy. I don't like a brass knock point on my recurves, but started tying a knock point with some braid fishing line, I think it's 130# power pro, anyway I just tyed one nail knot and knock above it. I eyeballed my knock point for a long time just trying to lay the arrow square with each shot. When I went with a consistant knock point, even though I thought I was knocking the same each shot, my groups tightened up quite a bit. Don't even notice the power pro on there. I shoot one over two under with a calf ear tab. Before release I relax upper finger and pull through the release.
Arrows do make a big differance too. I went to WallyWorld and bought a fistfull of Carbon Express wolverines with the 2" plastic vane just to get some shooting in. Damn you can watch those things wag on their way to the bag but they were cheap @ $3 an arrow and I have got a few robbin hoods out of em, but not too hard when your shooting dozen arrow groups :rolleyes: if you can get a group out of them you can shoot about anything. For my hunting arrow I went with a 340ics and 5" feather fletch after shooting the woverines all summer theese things are like darts.
I shoot out to 30yrds but try not to think about yardage and wander back and forth from the bag shooting differant distance and angles just trying to get the instinctual thing down with an occasional 40-50yrd from the deck or porch. It's a good feeling not relying on a pin :) Ilike to keep a few judo tips mounted up too and shoot empty milk cartons, love the sound of that WHACK and bounce em all around the field. With these short days I've been shooting with some lighted knocks, I know not too traditional, but it's kinda cool and another bonus of not needing a lighted pin. Put a light in the milk carton and have at it with some tracer rounds :tup:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: RadSav on December 23, 2013, 10:17:55 PM: Tonto hit on something very key in learning to shoot traditional. That is not shooting at a set distance all the time. If you have the room do a lot of roving. Your subconscious mind really needs that additional input of watching the full arch of the arrow to get full use of instinctive shooting. He also touched on using milk cartons and judo points - hallelujah! When space is limited not allowing much roving practice you can experience the same thing using milk cartons and Judo points. We would stuff them with old sheets, towels or stanky shirts and britches. Take four or five of them and from a single point throw them in all safe directions near and far. Who cares what distance they end up at! Shoot one or two arrows at each one and then start over again. I can't think of a better way to practice traditional instinctive shooting. It's super fun and super cheap! Nice post Tonto :tup:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Hornseeker on January 27, 2014, 03:13:51 PM: Some good info on this thread, since I last read it. Wanted to bring it back up for the traddys...

On the milk jugs.... fill them with spray foam is good too! another good target is an old basketball!

I love the analogy about the sear being "relaxing" your fingers... then letting the string do the work... nice.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Special T on January 27, 2014, 03:40:59 PM: Quote from: Hornseeker on December 23, 2013, 10:09:59 AM
Hit arrows together every shot at 20 yards? Damn dude... you ever think about serious competition? If you can do that, you can win the indoor worlds... easy...

I have witnessed other members on this forum put near 60 arrows in the 5 ring of a blue face target at 20 yards which is 2"??? in diameter or so with a recurve.. There are some very good shooters out there but slapping arrows won't win you world even with a recurve...
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: sakoshooter on January 27, 2014, 06:14:05 PM: :yeah:
Quote from: Old Dog on December 23, 2013, 09:04:43 AM
You might want to try feathers instead of plastic for your vanes. Feathers are a lot more forgiving. :twocents:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: smalldog on February 05, 2014, 03:59:06 PM: When I used to shoot a recurve bow I loved going into the woods that had a lot of old rotten stumps. I would walk around and pick a spot on a stump and shoot. Their is nothing better then that kind of shooting because its just like the same conditions you would have hunting. Its amazing how good your judgment will become on distance when you spend some time in the woods shooting. Just remember to keep your elbow up and pull with your back and find an anchor point that is comfortable and feels good. Consistency is the key, try to do the exact same form over and over. Always aim at what you are going to shoot at and practice pulling the bow slow as you aim until you hit your anchor and then release. In the long run it will make you a better shooter.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Hornseeker on February 05, 2014, 05:56:31 PM: Stump shooting IS the best practice... you got that right small dog...Fun and Effective!!

And slapping arrows together at 20 yards can win you the worlds... Ive shot a lot of blue faces... lotta 60 arrow rounds... I guess "near" is a relative term Special T. No one puts them all in there, not with a barebow... and especially not with a hunting rig... if you can shoot a 260-275 consistently with a barebow... you have as good a chance at winnnig the championship as anyone... and to shoot a 275... you've got a LOT of arrows not in the 5 ring...15 of them could be in the 4 ring... I think you might be exaggerating a little bitty bit... When I talk about slapping arrows.... that is exactly what Im talking about... putting them in that 2 inch circle... if you can slap 60 of them together with a barebow... you Win... hands down. Guaranteed...

Best I ever shot was a 272 and that was with a 33# longbow I built... shooting my 57# hunting bow I could never get over 263. I was shooting 6-7 days a week and probably 6-10 300 rounds a week for about a year. I was also getting coaching from multi-time world champions.

There are guys that out shoot me no prob... but they still only beat me by 5-10points... consistently though... which is what makes them the best.

The best score at the indoor nationals this year was a 278... Incredible shooting...

now Special T... if you are talking about a full Oly Rigged Recurve... yeah... different game... my best score with a sighted recurve is a 286... but i only shot 2 rounds with it... enjoyed barebow too much!!!
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Special T on February 06, 2014, 07:33:19 AM: State record blue face with Trad gear is adult male 282 14 X's , 2 day 557 23x's
adult senior male 270 17X's, 2 day 534 28X's

I witnessed 3 of those records. Those 2 guys are shooters for sure.
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Jellymon on February 06, 2014, 12:42:38 PM: The 5 ring on a blue face is 3.15". I average 300 45x with a compound, id be lucky to break 50 with my recurve. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Special T on February 06, 2014, 02:11:46 PM: NFAA National Championship laster year AMTRAD was 278 20x, 2day 545 33x

I guess you are correct Hornseaker... I guess has some really good shooteres that compete at our club, i just didn't realize how good the were!
Title: Re: Accuracy with traditional bow
Post by: Hornseeker on February 07, 2014, 07:40:52 AM: I know of a couple great shooters on this board! No doubt! Im just sayin.. .you slap all your arrows together, you have as good a chance at winning it all as anyone out there...

Alls I know, is there is really no better way to improve your form and accurracy than to shoot 300 rounds... or half rounds for starters. You gotta have a little coaching...at least internet coaching... cause practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect... (and as is evident from teh scores, perfect is not possible with the trad division...)

Ive been around it enough to say... if you shoot 240+ consistently... you are a hell of a shot... even when I was shooting all the time, Id still have my 235 days!!!! Ugh!