Post by: TheHunt on December 28, 2013, 05:30:38 PM
Post by: NW-GSP on December 28, 2013, 05:48:59 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 28, 2013, 05:59:28 PM
My son looked into buy verses build and it looks cheaper to buy one out right then to build? Crazy... I guess when you buy in bulk you can put together those rifles pretty cheap.
Right now, you can buy an AR cheaper than you can build one, but you might not get exactly what you want. Either way, it ain't cheap! :twocents:
Post by: superdown on December 28, 2013, 06:07:18 PM
Post by: actionshooter on December 28, 2013, 06:10:05 PM
buy one from a known maker as "home builds" tend to be a tough sell.
I got a aero precision stripped AR lower for Christmas and a DPMS lower receiver parts kit. When i was doing my research it is possible to buy a complete a little cheaper but i wanted the hands on experience of building one and the intimate knowledge of the weapon so for me it was worth a little extra for the education.
That's a great reason to build one, its just fun.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 28, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
Post by: Elliott on December 28, 2013, 07:54:04 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 28, 2013, 09:19:05 PM
Companies like RainierArms and such will take a build sheet you write up, assemble the rifle and ship it. Great company by the way(RainierArms). :tup:
One would be hard pressed to put together a standard AR cheaper than purchasing one out right. By the time you find the parts, order them, pay the shipping fees and assemble it. A 700.00 AR at the counter and out the door looks fairly attractive. Considering the time and money to piece it together. My time is worth something to me
The base of a AR is the barrel, I can't say it enough! The rest is all mass manufactured to a base line spec and or Mil-Spec. What's the point of assembling a AR if your going to frost it with a crap cheap barrel, then feed it the cheapest ammo possible. Cracks me up!
On the other hand there is nothing wrong with that if that's your intent, just don't snivel when it's not shooting 1/2 moa. Most of us that build AR's have pieced together several here and there for as cheap as possible just to shoot the crap out of them. A volume, hose a junk pile down thing. Great therapy! :tup:
Every once and a while one of them will shoot. :o
Post by: mountainman on December 28, 2013, 09:43:21 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 28, 2013, 09:53:42 PM
Post by: lee on December 29, 2013, 05:55:08 AM
Right now you can get a parts kit that includes everything except the stripped lower from Del-ton for $485 + shipping. They have many configurations to choose from and the Uppers come already assembled.
Then pick up a stripped lower (around here Surplus Ammo and Arms has them for $89.) An hour or so of yer time with simple shop tools and yer done.
I respectably disagree with the comment that kit AR's are hard to sell. After Sandy Hook I could have whittled a 2x6 into the shape of an AR and sold it for $1000.
Yer milage may vary,
Lee
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 29, 2013, 08:36:22 AM
I agree and it will happen again, some of us made a killing with factory AR's and spare parts. People came to me and were offering me 4 times what I had paid for AR's. You hear all these people sniveling about price gouging. Hahaha! When you have guys calling and saying they will hand you 3K for AR's you paid 800.00 for a guy sells some of the surplus in the safe.
Us guys that had been through the Clinton ordeal, saw it coming a long way out and were Hoarding complete AR's, uppers, lowers and parts kits. Looking forward to the next "Scare".
Post by: Special T on December 29, 2013, 08:48:06 AM
Post by: Grizzly95 on December 29, 2013, 08:55:54 AM
Post by: gasman on December 29, 2013, 08:58:15 AM
Here s build related question... What parts are necessary to build a LH AR? Do you need a whole upper or just certain parts. Any suppliers of the uppers or LH kits?
I believe you just need a LH upper and bolt (or BCG)
Post by: actionshooter on December 29, 2013, 09:30:56 AM
I respectably disagree with the comment that kit AR's are hard to sell. After Sandy Hook I could have whittled a 2x6 into the shape of an AR and sold it for $1000.
Yer milage may vary,
Lee
Ya that was after Sandy hook, you could sell an AR15 airsoft gun for $1000 :) Try selling a parts/ frankengun AR right now right now, they don't sell OR the seller takes a HUGE hit in the pocket.
I don't have anything against parts guns specifically, half of my hoard I assembled, its just the way it is.
Post by: mountainman on December 29, 2013, 09:45:26 AM
agreed :yeah:
I respectably disagree with the comment that kit AR's are hard to sell. After Sandy Hook I could have whittled a 2x6 into the shape of an AR and sold it for $1000.
Yer milage may vary,
Lee
Ya that was after Sandy hook, you could sell an AR15 airsoft gun for $1000 :) Try selling a parts/ frankengun AR right now right now, they don't sell OR the seller takes a HUGE hit in the pocket.
I don't have anything against parts guns specifically, half of my hoard I assembled, its just the way it is.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 29, 2013, 01:28:08 PM
For a long time, Stag was the only one that made left handed AR's. Now I see in the Rock River catalog that they are making a lot of left handed guns now. And there are probably others I don't know about...
Post by: runamuk on December 29, 2013, 01:49:53 PM
Post by: actionshooter on December 29, 2013, 01:53:21 PM
Here s build related question... What parts are necessary to build a LH AR? Do you need a whole upper or just certain parts. Any suppliers of the uppers or LH kits?
The parts are out there but they are tough too find, way easier to just buy a complete upper.
Several years ago I sent a buddy a Stag left hand upper. He was working for private security in Bahgdad and he used it when he sat behind the driver in a Suburban. That way you don't shower your buddies with brass. :)
He said it ran great full auto.
Post by: Atroxus on December 29, 2013, 02:16:47 PM
Youn can peice one together for allot cheaper if you aren't in a rush
:yeah:
I have been working on my first AR build for almost a year now. If you buy all the parts all at once, you will likely spend more than buying a complete AR. If you have the patience to watch for when parts go on sale, you can come out cheaper. Though probably not by much. Currently I have my lower receiver completed, and am just keeping an eye out for good deals on upper receiver parts and a .300 blackout barrel.
Post by: Special T on December 29, 2013, 06:46:44 PM
Post by: runamuk on December 29, 2013, 07:01:41 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 29, 2013, 07:06:36 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 29, 2013, 07:26:57 PM
I bought a New Frontier complete lower for $ 119
The 204 complete upper is $450 + shipping of $35, if I remember right, from Model 1 Sales out of Texas.
I bought a complete Rock River lower for $300 a couple months ago for my Rock River 458 SOCOM, total price was right at $1100. I'll take $2500 cash for it........plus ammo, dies, brass........ :tup: $3000 firm.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 29, 2013, 08:11:00 PM
I wanted to put together one instead of buying a $1100 204.
I bought a New Frontier complete lower for $ 119
The 204 complete upper is $450 + shipping of $35, if I remember right, from Model 1 Sales out of Texas.
I bought a complete Rock River lower for $300 a couple months ago for my Rock River 458 SOCOM, total price was right at $1100. I'll take $2500 cash for it........plus ammo, dies, brass........ :tup: $3000 firm.
I'm sure you will get that when people freak out again.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 29, 2013, 08:26:20 PM
I wanted to put together one instead of buying a $1100 204.
I bought a New Frontier complete lower for $ 119
The 204 complete upper is $450 + shipping of $35, if I remember right, from Model 1 Sales out of Texas.
I bought a complete Rock River lower for $300 a couple months ago for my Rock River 458 SOCOM, total price was right at $1100. I'll take $2500 cash for it........plus ammo, dies, brass........ :tup: $3000 firm.
I'm sure you will get that when people freak out again.
The 204 is impressive, but it hurts when you lose a piece of brass. I had fun shooting my buddy's 20 Tactical. You lose brass with that, it's no big deal--just neck down some more 223 brass to .204. :tup:
Post by: mountainman on December 29, 2013, 08:55:50 PM
I wanted to put together one instead of buying a $1100 204.
I bought a New Frontier complete lower for $ 119
The 204 complete upper is $450 + shipping of $35, if I remember right, from Model 1 Sales out of Texas.
I bought a complete Rock River lower for $300 a couple months ago for my Rock River 458 SOCOM, total price was right at $1100. I'll take $2500 cash for it........plus ammo, dies, brass........ :tup: $3000 firm.
I'm sure you will get that when people freak out again.
The 204 is impressive, but it hurts when you lose a piece of brass. I had fun shooting my buddy's 20 Tactical. You lose brass with that, it's no big deal--just neck down some more 223 brass to .204. :tup:
The perfect ground squirrel round there! Thousand dead each year at our annual shoot down in enterprise. That and the Vartarg
:tup:
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 29, 2013, 09:08:35 PM
I wanted to put together one instead of buying a $1100 204.
I bought a New Frontier complete lower for $ 119
The 204 complete upper is $450 + shipping of $35, if I remember right, from Model 1 Sales out of Texas.
I bought a complete Rock River lower for $300 a couple months ago for my Rock River 458 SOCOM, total price was right at $1100. I'll take $2500 cash for it........plus ammo, dies, brass........ :tup: $3000 firm.
I'm sure you will get that when people freak out again.
The 204 is impressive, but it hurts when you lose a piece of brass. I had fun shooting my buddy's 20 Tactical. You lose brass with that, it's no big deal--just neck down some more 223 brass to .204. :tup:
I've built several .204 Rugers both with WhiteOak barrels. Great cartridge but as you mentioned, I was sick of loosing brass in the field shooting chucks & Yotes. I'm going to give a BHW .20 Practical barrel a try, I can care less if I leave LC 5.56 brass strewn about.
Post by: mountainman on December 30, 2013, 07:30:38 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2013, 08:05:53 AM
Funny how you see that trinket crap on the ranges but very seldom run into them in the field.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 30, 2013, 08:18:24 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2013, 09:52:21 AM
IMHO, the best of the myriad accessories for the AR is also the cheapest--the Winter Trigger Guard. It sure is nice in cold weather when you are wearing gloves! :twocents:
Ice Arms does a good trigger guard for winter calling/ gloves. As does Phase 5.
Ice Arms:
http://www.icearms.us/products.cfm?cat=6 (http://www.icearms.us/products.cfm?cat=6)
Phase 5:
http://www.phase5tactical.com/products/ar15-m16/winter-trigger-guard- (http://www.phase5tactical.com/products/ar15-m16/winter-trigger-guard-)
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 31, 2013, 08:50:54 AM
Post by: Special T on December 31, 2013, 10:09:50 AM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on December 31, 2013, 10:17:59 AM
Post by: gasman on December 31, 2013, 03:21:24 PM
6.8 SPC
:yeah:
Just built one for the wife and she is in love with it :tup:
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 05:06:59 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 05:44:58 PM
If you had a complete lower and wanted an upper to hunt with what round would you use? Ammo/Brass availability would be very important to me, knockdown power THEN range.
Using your criteria, 300BLK, followed by 6.8SPC.
Distance you will most likely hunt plays a role also.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 05:49:26 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 05:51:43 PM
If you had a complete lower and wanted an upper to hunt with what round would you use? Ammo/Brass availability would be very important to me, knockdown power THEN range.
Using your criteria, 300BLK, followed by 6.8SPC.
Distance you will most likely hunt plays a role also.
It always amazes me at all the hype over the 300 BLK--who but a suppressor user would want a subsonic variant of the 223 case. Might make a good brush gun, but that's about it! :twocents: Go 6.8 and you won't be sorry.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 05:56:36 PM
BlackHole Weaponry fixed the 6.8 SPC by simply necking it down to 6.5. Might want to give their barrels a look. They also necked it down to .20 cal, .22, 6mm, 25 cal along with 6.5 and will be releasing a 6.8 necked down to .30 cal shortly. I know a bunch of guys that jumped on the 6.8 and then sold them all.
Yup. I got a Black Hole 6mmX6.8 a while back, and I'm thinking about selling my 6.8. Loaded ammo is available for the 6mmX6.8 SPC, but it's expensive! I make my own, being the tinkerer that I am... :chuckle:
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 06:00:28 PM
Why do you think the 300BLK is only useful sub sonic?If you had a complete lower and wanted an upper to hunt with what round would you use? Ammo/Brass availability would be very important to me, knockdown power THEN range.
Using your criteria, 300BLK, followed by 6.8SPC.
Distance you will most likely hunt plays a role also.
It always amazes me at all the hype over the 300 BLK--who but a suppressor user would want a subsonic variant of the 223 case. Might make a good brush gun, but that's about it! :twocents: Go 6.8 and you won't be sorry.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 06:01:49 PM
Have you wrung out your 6-6.8?BlackHole Weaponry fixed the 6.8 SPC by simply necking it down to 6.5. Might want to give their barrels a look. They also necked it down to .20 cal, .22, 6mm, 25 cal along with 6.5 and will be releasing a 6.8 necked down to .30 cal shortly. I know a bunch of guys that jumped on the 6.8 and then sold them all.
Yup. I got a Black Hole 6mmX6.8 a while back, and I'm thinking about selling my 6.8. Loaded ammo is available for the 6mmX6.8 SPC, but it's expensive! I make my own, being the tinkerer that I am... :chuckle:
What are your thoughts on it?
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 06:10:41 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 06:12:02 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 06:14:48 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 06:16:24 PM
Have you wrung out your 6-6.8?BlackHole Weaponry fixed the 6.8 SPC by simply necking it down to 6.5. Might want to give their barrels a look. They also necked it down to .20 cal, .22, 6mm, 25 cal along with 6.5 and will be releasing a 6.8 necked down to .30 cal shortly. I know a bunch of guys that jumped on the 6.8 and then sold them all.
Yup. I got a Black Hole 6mmX6.8 a while back, and I'm thinking about selling my 6.8. Loaded ammo is available for the 6mmX6.8 SPC, but it's expensive! I make my own, being the tinkerer that I am... :chuckle:
What are your thoughts on it?
Haven't wrung it out yet, but I did find out that you don't have to elevate very much from 100 yard zero to 300 yards. It would be good for critters up to deer sized animals, but I think the 6.8 would have better knock down power. I have to make up some more test loads for the 6mm, and check the zero. A while back I thought I heard one of the turrets on the scope turning as I slid it out of the case. :dunno: Anyway, it's a good excuse to get out to the range again! :chuckle:
Hee hee! You guys type faster than I do!
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 06:19:49 PM
Post by: superdown on December 31, 2013, 06:24:16 PM
I'll take a 5.56 and a 77gr MK over any 6.8 SPC load all the way out to 1K and I won't even mention how well the Grendel trumps both. :chuckle:So i will readily admit that i am a novice when it comes to the ar platform but my question is based in terminal performance. What is the big turnoff with the 6.8 spc when most believe a human is much easier to dispatch than a deer? The reason i ask is this round seems to be popular with the hunting crowd?
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 06:28:54 PM
Have you wrung out your 6-6.8?BlackHole Weaponry fixed the 6.8 SPC by simply necking it down to 6.5. Might want to give their barrels a look. They also necked it down to .20 cal, .22, 6mm, 25 cal along with 6.5 and will be releasing a 6.8 necked down to .30 cal shortly. I know a bunch of guys that jumped on the 6.8 and then sold them all.
Yup. I got a Black Hole 6mmX6.8 a while back, and I'm thinking about selling my 6.8. Loaded ammo is available for the 6mmX6.8 SPC, but it's expensive! I make my own, being the tinkerer that I am... :chuckle:
What are your thoughts on it?
Haven't wrung it out yet, but I did find out that you don't have to elevate very much from 100 yard zero to 300 yards. It would be good for critters up to deer sized animals, but I think the 6.8 would have better knock down power. I have to make up some more test loads for the 6mm, and check the zero. A while back I thought I heard one of the turrets on the scope turning as I slid it out of the case. :dunno: Anyway, it's a good excuse to get out to the range again! :chuckle:
Hee hee! You guys type faster than I do!
I have a 20" 6-6.8 AR-15 Black Hole barrel, just waiting on the associated reloading tools and bolt to arrive.
Have you tried any heavier bullets?
Mine is mostly going to be for coyotes and I will run it suppressed.
Yea, factory ammo at ~$80.00 for 50 is too steep for me.
I'll set my Dillon 550 up for it and feed the rifle that way.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 06:34:21 PM
I'll take a 5.56 and a 77gr MK over any 6.8 SPC load all the way out to 1K and I won't even mention how well the Grendel trumps both. :chuckle:So i will readily admit that i am a novice when it comes to the ar platform but my question is based in terminal performance what is the big turnoff with the 6.8 spc when most believe a human is much easier to dispatch than a deer? the reason i ask is this round seems to be popular with the hunting crowd?
The 6.8 SPC was developed for the military as a round that would transfer over to combatants with little or no retraining, and offer more knock-down power than the .223 bullet. It was based on the 30 Remington case, for the small head, requiring very little weakening of the bolt fingers. It was never adopted by the military, but varmint hunters liked it, thus it didn't die off like most cartridges do when the military drops them. I think the 6.5 Grendel was developed with the hopes that the military would adopt it, too, but they never did....
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 06:46:05 PM
Have you wrung out your 6-6.8?BlackHole Weaponry fixed the 6.8 SPC by simply necking it down to 6.5. Might want to give their barrels a look. They also necked it down to .20 cal, .22, 6mm, 25 cal along with 6.5 and will be releasing a 6.8 necked down to .30 cal shortly. I know a bunch of guys that jumped on the 6.8 and then sold them all.
Yup. I got a Black Hole 6mmX6.8 a while back, and I'm thinking about selling my 6.8. Loaded ammo is available for the 6mmX6.8 SPC, but it's expensive! I make my own, being the tinkerer that I am... :chuckle:
What are your thoughts on it?
Haven't wrung it out yet, but I did find out that you don't have to elevate very much from 100 yard zero to 300 yards. It would be good for critters up to deer sized animals, but I think the 6.8 would have better knock down power. I have to make up some more test loads for the 6mm, and check the zero. A while back I thought I heard one of the turrets on the scope turning as I slid it out of the case. :dunno: Anyway, it's a good excuse to get out to the range again! :chuckle:
Hee hee! You guys type faster than I do!
I have a 20" 6-6.8 AR-15 Black Hole barrel, just waiting on the associated reloading tools and bolt to arrive.
Have you tried any heavier bullets?
Mine is mostly going to be for coyotes and I will run it suppressed.
Yea, factory ammo at ~$80.00 for 50 is too steep for me.
I'll set my Dillon 550 up for it and feed the rifle that way.
That's what mine is, a 20" barrel. I got the 1 in 9 twist, rather than the 1 in 10 so it would handle heavier bullets better. I have heavier bullets, but haven't tried them yet. I had the load data for the 58 grain V-Max's so that's what I tried first. With a charge of IMR 8208 XBR they are nice! I used a 6.5 Grendel die set, and a 6mm Hornady neck die, which I already had to neck down the 20 LBC brass, to make the cases, and turned a trifle off the necks to true them up. All I had to get was a Hornady 6mm/243 bullet seating die.
Post by: superdown on December 31, 2013, 06:57:58 PM
I know the history of the round although i do appreciate your input :). What i was asking was what is the performance deficit this cartridge apparently suffers?I'll take a 5.56 and a 77gr MK over any 6.8 SPC load all the way out to 1K and I won't even mention how well the Grendel trumps both. :chuckle:So i will readily admit that i am a novice when it comes to the ar platform but my question is based in terminal performance what is the big turnoff with the 6.8 spc when most believe a human is much easier to dispatch than a deer? the reason i ask is this round seems to be popular with the hunting crowd?
The 6.8 SPC was developed for the military as a round that would transfer over to combatants with little or no retraining, and offer more knock-down power than the .223 bullet. It was based on the 30 Remington case, for the small head, requiring very little weakening of the bolt fingers. It was never adopted by the military, but varmint hunters liked it, thus it didn't die off like most cartridges do when the military drops them. I think the 6.5 Grendel was developed with the hopes that the military would adopt it, too, but they never did....
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 07:08:31 PM
For it's intended purpose, there is none.I know the history of the round although i do appreciate your input :). What i was asking was what is the performance deficit this cartridge apparently suffers?I'll take a 5.56 and a 77gr MK over any 6.8 SPC load all the way out to 1K and I won't even mention how well the Grendel trumps both. :chuckle:So i will readily admit that i am a novice when it comes to the ar platform but my question is based in terminal performance what is the big turnoff with the 6.8 spc when most believe a human is much easier to dispatch than a deer? the reason i ask is this round seems to be popular with the hunting crowd?
The 6.8 SPC was developed for the military as a round that would transfer over to combatants with little or no retraining, and offer more knock-down power than the .223 bullet. It was based on the 30 Remington case, for the small head, requiring very little weakening of the bolt fingers. It was never adopted by the military, but varmint hunters liked it, thus it didn't die off like most cartridges do when the military drops them. I think the 6.5 Grendel was developed with the hopes that the military would adopt it, too, but they never did....
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 07:11:33 PM
I know the history of the round although i do appreciate your input :). What i was asking was what is the performance deficit this cartridge apparently suffers?I'll take a 5.56 and a 77gr MK over any 6.8 SPC load all the way out to 1K and I won't even mention how well the Grendel trumps both. :chuckle:So i will readily admit that i am a novice when it comes to the ar platform but my question is based in terminal performance what is the big turnoff with the 6.8 spc when most believe a human is much easier to dispatch than a deer? the reason i ask is this round seems to be popular with the hunting crowd?
The 6.8 SPC was developed for the military as a round that would transfer over to combatants with little or no retraining, and offer more knock-down power than the .223 bullet. It was based on the 30 Remington case, for the small head, requiring very little weakening of the bolt fingers. It was never adopted by the military, but varmint hunters liked it, thus it didn't die off like most cartridges do when the military drops them. I think the 6.5 Grendel was developed with the hopes that the military would adopt it, too, but they never did....
Oh, sorry. I think the biggest deficit is the shortened case to fit into the m-16/AR-15 magazine. A 270 Winchester would drive a heavier .277 bullet faster, and can shoot a 150 grain bullet. 115 grain is about max for a 6.8 SPC. But still enough for the job it was meant to do. As for FPS and energy numbers, someone else will have to answer that!
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
That's what mine is, a 20" barrel. I got the 1 in 9 twist, rather than the 1 in 10 so it would handle heavier bullets better. I have heavier bullets, but haven't tried them yet. I had the load data for the 58 grain V-Max's so that's what I tried first. With a charge of IMR 8208 XBR they are nice! I used a 6.5 Grendel die set, and a 6mm Hornady neck die, which I already had to neck down the 20 LBC brass, to make the cases, and turned a trifle off the necks to true them up. All I had to get was a Hornady 6mm/243 bullet seating die.
[/quote]
Yup, same here, 9 twist. Just picked up 200+ SSA once fired brass, so I'll have plenty to work up loads.
I'm going to try the 87 Vmax and 87 Berger VLD.
You state you are seating with a 243 or 6mm die? Is that the preferred way to seat the 6-6.8?
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 07:19:53 PM
Post by: TheHunt on December 31, 2013, 07:23:03 PM
JTP, give me a call at the shop on thursday. Will get you a deal on those 2 boxes you might like
Hey, My son is looking for an AR. You have any Colts, Daniel defense, LMT... He has money that is burning a hole in his pocket.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 07:25:50 PM
JTP, give me a call at the shop on thursday. Will get you a deal on those 2 boxes you might likeWill do.Check your PM's
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 07:28:17 PM
Post by: Special T on December 31, 2013, 07:31:47 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 07:33:36 PM
The serious guys/ developers of the 6.8 wildcats. Told me they prefer. Federal over the SSA and small primer brass.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 07:34:27 PM
That's what mine is, a 20" barrel. I got the 1 in 9 twist, rather than the 1 in 10 so it would handle heavier bullets better. I have heavier bullets, but haven't tried them yet. I had the load data for the 58 grain V-Max's so that's what I tried first. With a charge of IMR 8208 XBR they are nice! I used a 6.5 Grendel die set, and a 6mm Hornady neck die, which I already had to neck down the 20 LBC brass, to make the cases, and turned a trifle off the necks to true them up. All I had to get was a Hornady 6mm/243 bullet seating die.
Yup, same here, 9 twist. Just picked up 200+ SSA once fired brass, so I'll have plenty to work up loads.
I'm going to try the 87 Vmax and 87 Berger VLD.
You state you are seating with a 243 or 6mm die? Is that the preferred way to seat the 6-6.8?
[/quote]
I don't know, but that's what I do. But then, I'm an animal! But I did find that Black Hole Barrels have a tight chamber. I had to run my reloads through the 6.8 sizing die without the expander/decapper, of course, to take out the imperceptible bulge so the rounds would chamber all the way! (I saw a guy with a 6.5x55 Swedish bolt gun who just neck sized his loads, and they wouldn't chamber all the way, either, so it apparently isn't an isolated problem!) Since I ran the loads through the sizing die, I didn't have a problem, but I did get some resistance when I did, so it must have helped.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 07:37:05 PM
So are the 6.8 and 6.5 based off the 270 brass?
No, The 6.8,6.5, and 6mmx6.8SPC are based on the 30 Remington brass.
Post by: Special T on December 31, 2013, 07:41:29 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 07:46:27 PM
So the 6.8 and the 270 shoot the same bullet but use different brass?
Both use .277 dia bullets.
The 6.8 is limited to the lighter class where as the 270 can handle them all.
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 07:52:17 PM
JTP, give me a call at the shop on thursday. Will get you a deal on those 2 boxes you might likeWill do.Check your PM's
Cool! Maybe do some dealing?
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 07:53:29 PM
think I have a DDefence left..give me a call Thursady, 509-665-9362JTP, give me a call at the shop on thursday. Will get you a deal on those 2 boxes you might like
Hey, My son is looking for an AR. You have any Colts, Daniel defense, LMT... He has money that is burning a hole in his pocket.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 07:55:22 PM
Most guys just purchase a set of Redding type "S" bushing dies, they can use the FL die for most of the 6.8 wildcats by just changing the bushings and the seating stem in the seater die. Their are other routes for the guys that don't want to drop the cash on the Reddings. They don't give them away.
I think that was the Main reason I got the Hornady dies--they are really reasonably priced. I did have to shorten one of the neck dies. The Grendel neck wouldn't reach in far enough! And, you can get individual Hornady dies. Anyway, it gets me to the same place. (don't know if that's good or bad! :chuckle: )
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 07:59:36 PM
Most guys just purchase a set of Redding type "S" bushing dies, they can use the FL die for most of the 6.8 wildcats by just changing the bushings and the seating stem in the seater die. Their are other routes for the guys that don't want to drop the cash on the Reddings. They don't give them away.
I think that was the Main reason I got the Hornady dies--they are really reasonably priced. I did have to shorten one of the neck dies. The Grendel neck wouldn't reach in far enough! And, you can get individual Hornady dies. Anyway, it gets me to the same place. (don't know if that's good or bad! :chuckle: )
So what exact die are you using? A Hornady 6.8 SPC bushing die or a shortened Grendel die?
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 08:05:25 PM
Most guys just purchase a set of Redding type "S" bushing dies, they can use the FL die for most of the 6.8 wildcats by just changing the bushings and the seating stem in the seater die. Their are other routes for the guys that don't want to drop the cash on the Reddings. They don't give them away.
I think that was the Main reason I got the Hornady dies--they are really reasonably priced. I did have to shorten one of the neck dies. The Grendel neck wouldn't reach in far enough! And, you can get individual Hornady dies. Anyway, it gets me to the same place. (don't know if that's good or bad! :chuckle: )
So what exact die are you using? A Hornady 6.8 SPC bushing die or a shortened Grendel die?
So the 6.8 and the 270 shoot the same bullet but use different brass?
Yes, the 25-06 and the 270 are based on the 30-06 case. BUT, the 270 case is 1/10th inch longer than the 30-06 case.
The 6.8SPC case was based on the 30 Remington case because of the base size.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 08:15:01 PM
Most guys just purchase a set of Redding type "S" bushing dies, they can use the FL die for most of the 6.8 wildcats by just changing the bushings and the seating stem in the seater die. Their are other routes for the guys that don't want to drop the cash on the Reddings. They don't give them away.
I think that was the Main reason I got the Hornady dies--they are really reasonably priced. I did have to shorten one of the neck dies. The Grendel neck wouldn't reach in far enough! And, you can get individual Hornady dies. Anyway, it gets me to the same place. (don't know if that's good or bad! :chuckle: )
So what exact die are you using? A Hornady 6.8 SPC bushing die or a shortened Grendel die?
Neither. I looked, and it was the 6mm neck die that I had to shorten. (I think it was made for the 6mm Remington, and the Grendel brass I was necking down wouldn't reach.) At first, I was necking 6.5 Grendel brass down to .204, and found that going from 6.5 to .224 wasn't gradual enough, so I got the 6mm Hornady neck die. So I already had the 6mm neck die when I got the 6mmX6.8SPC barrel. And, because I already had a 6.8SPC, I had a set of 6.8 RCBS dies, too.
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 08:20:32 PM
and its amazing how those lighter bullets designed for varmints, begin to perform like a controlled expansion round once the velocities arent cranking as high as your 243 win or 6mm rem. used to play alot in the 80's with the TCU rounds in 6mm, 6.5mm, and my favorite, the 7mm TCU! In the XP100's and the Contenders the became viable big game rounds! Thank you Bob Milek!Have you wrung out your 6-6.8?BlackHole Weaponry fixed the 6.8 SPC by simply necking it down to 6.5. Might want to give their barrels a look. They also necked it down to .20 cal, .22, 6mm, 25 cal along with 6.5 and will be releasing a 6.8 necked down to .30 cal shortly. I know a bunch of guys that jumped on the 6.8 and then sold them all.
Yup. I got a Black Hole 6mmX6.8 a while back, and I'm thinking about selling my 6.8. Loaded ammo is available for the 6mmX6.8 SPC, but it's expensive! I make my own, being the tinkerer that I am... :chuckle:
What are your thoughts on it?
Haven't wrung it out yet, but I did find out that you don't have to elevate very much from 100 yard zero to 300 yards. It would be good for critters up to deer sized animals, but I think the 6.8 would have better knock down power. I have to make up some more test loads for the 6mm, and check the zero. A while back I thought I heard one of the turrets on the scope turning as I slid it out of the case. :dunno: Anyway, it's a good excuse to get out to the range again! :chuckle:
Hee hee! You guys type faster than I do!
I have a 20" 6-6.8 AR-15 Black Hole barrel, just waiting on the associated reloading tools and bolt to arrive.
Have you tried any heavier bullets?
Mine is mostly going to be for coyotes and I will run it suppressed.
Yea, factory ammo at ~$80.00 for 50 is too steep for me.
I'll set my Dillon 550 up for it and feed the rifle that way.
That's what mine is, a 20" barrel. I got the 1 in 9 twist, rather than the 1 in 10 so it would handle heavier bullets better. I have heavier bullets, but haven't tried them yet. I had the load data for the 58 grain V-Max's so that's what I tried first. With a charge of IMR 8208 XBR they are nice! I used a 6.5 Grendel die set, and a 6mm Hornady neck die, which I already had to neck down the 20 LBC brass, to make the cases, and turned a trifle off the necks to true them up. All I had to get was a Hornady 6mm/243 bullet seating die.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 10:11:38 PM
Why do you think the 300BLK is only useful sub sonic?If you had a complete lower and wanted an upper to hunt with what round would you use? Ammo/Brass availability would be very important to me, knockdown power THEN range.
Using your criteria, 300BLK, followed by 6.8SPC.
Distance you will most likely hunt plays a role also.
It always amazes me at all the hype over the 300 BLK--who but a suppressor user would want a subsonic variant of the 223 case. Might make a good brush gun, but that's about it! :twocents: Go 6.8 and you won't be sorry.
Because it was designed to be a suppressor round. you put a 30 caliber bullet in a shortened and cut down .223 case, and that's what you get--a slow freight! It was nearly impossible to make a sub-sonic .223 round for suppressor use, so the 300 Blackout was invented. Actually, it was first called the 300 Whisper, but the guy that invented it wouldn't let anyone else use the name.
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 10:25:18 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 31, 2013, 10:31:10 PM
J.D. jones from SSK. Super sonic 110 equals a 123 out of an AK when both are running 16". Anemic, but coupled with the improved accuracy in an AR over an AK, AND the option of running under 1000 fps and supressed, lends more options. Hornadies or the specialized Barnes 110 makes it a viable medium game round. :tup:
What do you call "Medium game"--cats? Racoons? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 31, 2013, 10:33:14 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 31, 2013, 11:10:40 PM
J.D. jones from SSK. Super sonic 110 equals a 123 out of an AK when both are running 16". Anemic, but coupled with the improved accuracy in an AR over an AK, AND the option of running under 1000 fps and supressed, lends more options. Hornadies or the specialized Barnes 110 makes it a viable medium game round. :tup:
What do you call "Medium game"--cats? Racoons? :chuckle: :chuckle:
[/quote]Or squirrels, possums, or even pixies! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Seriously though, I was just stating the energy level comparing to another caliber. Not quite a 30/30, but close. It would be very capable for deer sized game out to a couple hundred yards easily. Running lehigh bullets, a little more so. BUT, the Blackout was not designed for that purpose. More aptly for close in clean up work in an urban environment. Scenario..a team gets sent into a structure to clear. A number enter, a number sets the perimeter. Say even a light built structure for the sake of making a point. Penetration become an issue not only for interior team members, but people possibly in other rooms, along with perimeter team. Mp5's ideal for that situation. But bad guy makes a run out the back and down the alley. 100-150 yards away. Handgun round you hope might hit the target, a 30 cal with twice the smack hits the target! Plus, supressed in the interior allows members to communicate and save their hearing. Thats more in tune with what the "whisper" was designed for. Not an aplication that everyone needs or uses..for us, its just flat fun! :tup: plus, they say you can shoot a deer in the nose at twenty paces and actually knock him out! ;)
Post by: Jim the Plumber on December 31, 2013, 11:14:00 PM
Why do you think the 300BLK is only useful sub sonic?If you had a complete lower and wanted an upper to hunt with what round would you use? Ammo/Brass availability would be very important to me, knockdown power THEN range.
Using your criteria, 300BLK, followed by 6.8SPC.
Distance you will most likely hunt plays a role also.
It always amazes me at all the hype over the 300 BLK--who but a suppressor user would want a subsonic variant of the 223 case. Might make a good brush gun, but that's about it! :twocents: Go 6.8 and you won't be sorry.
Because it was designed to be a suppressor round. you put a 30 caliber bullet in a shortened and cut down .223 case, and that's what you get--a slow freight! It was nearly impossible to make a sub-sonic .223 round for suppressor use, so the 300 Blackout was invented. Actually, it was first called the 300 Whisper, but the guy that invented it wouldn't let anyone else use the name.
I have several AR-15's chambered in 5.56 ( a few..), 6-223, 6-6.8 ( haven't shot this one yet), and 300 BLK.
My favorite for everyday shooting, plinking, coyotes, out to 300 yards is the 300 BLK. It's a ton of fun to shoot, both super sonic and sub sonic, all run suppressed.
Minimal recoil, low blast, even un suppressed, doesn't dirty up the action when suppressed like the 5.56's do.
Very forgiving to reload. Bullets from 95 grain up to 240 grain and all will function the rifle.
I would have no issues taking a deer sized animal out to 300 yards with it. Will I ever? most likely not as I have better choices. Coyotes to ~300, absolutely.
I would be happy to meet up with you and let you shoot my 300BLK. It will surprise you.
Post by: Swannytheswan on December 31, 2013, 11:43:40 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 01, 2014, 12:30:23 AM
so what would be the way to go for a feller that doesn't reload...wish I could but I don't have the space for it
For a hunting AR? If that's the case, it's hard to beat a 6.5 Grendel with factory Hornady loads in 123gr SST or 123gr A-Max at 24.00 bucks a box. I was purchasing the 123gr A-Max locally for 21.00 this last summer. I haven't looked at local prices lately because I stocked up on them due to the fact they shot so well. It was well worth the loaded price. It shot so well that I haven't even touched my Lapua brass for reloading. I did order 10 more boxes locally but I didn't ask the price, I guess I'll find out when they show up.
I've been witness to a 6.5 Grendel one shot stop on a Mulie at 496 yards with a 120 Ballistic Tip in .264 LBC brass launched from a 16" Alexander Arm M4 carbine barrel.
Precision Firearms sells a wide verity of 6.5 Grendel / .264 LBC loads. I shot a bunch of their .264 LBC through my Grendels.
http://www.precisionfirearms.com/29.html (http://www.precisionfirearms.com/29.html)
MidWay USA has a M4 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt on hand in stock right now for 279.00. They go fast, you can throw the barrel on any AR, change the bolt and stuff a 18.00 buck Grendel magazine in it and your good to go.
Barrel.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/884877/ar-stoner-barrel-and-bolt-ar-15-65-grendel-medium-m4-contour-1-in-8-twist-16-stainless-steel (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/884877/ar-stoner-barrel-and-bolt-ar-15-65-grendel-medium-m4-contour-1-in-8-twist-16-stainless-steel)
Magazine.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2726 (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2726)
Post by: Swannytheswan on January 01, 2014, 12:34:01 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 01, 2014, 12:46:57 AM
Best your going to get out of a AR with factory foder available. :IBCOOL:
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 01, 2014, 12:57:42 AM
One of the better groups.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-47_zps829ec70d.jpg&hash=21f26b4a704db7f1b6e1ea7c0f62ea5f01c0dce9) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-47_zps829ec70d.jpg.html)
About its average at 300 yards.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0523_zps562ff60c.jpg&hash=39383c353e0c7dc40f4776e1bf006f14bc3f66c1) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/IMG_0523_zps562ff60c.jpg.html)
The 123's kill Rockchucks... DEAD! Tried to keep the photo half way decent. You can tell he's a little thin with the unzipped side down.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FGroundhogs%2Fphoto1-1_zpsfae67a54.jpg&hash=ca79e407429966e7d162056452a800552165ba41) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Groundhogs/photo1-1_zpsfae67a54.jpg.html)
Post by: Swannytheswan on January 01, 2014, 01:05:50 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 01, 2014, 06:37:58 AM
I think I'm sold... Got a stripped upper already it will prolly be a long term build when I get the money/see stuff on sale kinda deal
PM me what other parts your interested in or may be looking for, a general idea of what type of AR you want to put together. I may have them or can help find them new or used for a decent deal.
Now days on assembling most AR's , I start with the barrel if I have to order it from a custom maker. The barrel usually takes the longest. The rest of the parts come easy.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 01, 2014, 09:14:55 AM
Post by: mountainman on January 01, 2014, 09:17:37 AM
My son looked into buy verses build and it looks cheaper to buy one out right then to build? Crazy... I guess when you buy in bulk you can put together those rifles pretty cheap.
Kinda went sideways discussion wise, as they sometimes do when opinion between us gun loonies opens up. Hopefully, you question was somewhat answered? Cheaper to buy complete for a basic gun, cheaper to build if you want to go with a certain look, spec etc. and I will check on the Daniels Defense for your son.
Post by: mountainman on January 01, 2014, 09:18:21 AM
If you have to buy a Grendel bolt, make sure it's a Type II bolt, and not just a 7.62x39 bolt. The Grendel Type II bolt is 10 thousanths deeper than the 7.62x39 bolt so it chambers the round and the bolt fingers lock up with the barrel. :tup::yeah:
Post by: jay.sharkbait on January 01, 2014, 09:35:10 AM
Back to the OPMy son looked into buy verses build and it looks cheaper to buy one out right then to build? Crazy... I guess when you buy in bulk you can put together those rifles pretty cheap.
Kinda went sideways discussion wise, as they sometimes do when opinion between us gun loonies opens up. Hopefully, you question was somewhat answered? Cheaper to buy complete for a basic gun, cheaper to build if you want to go with a certain look, spec etc. and I will check on the Daniels Defence for your son.
It's Defense BTW.
Post by: mountainman on January 01, 2014, 09:59:21 AM
glad you are always there to catch any typos Bait! What ever would I do without cha?? :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle:never know, there might be more... :chuckle:Back to the OPMy son looked into buy verses build and it looks cheaper to buy one out right then to build? Crazy... I guess when you buy in bulk you can put together those rifles pretty cheap.
Kinda went sideways discussion wise, as they sometimes do when opinion between us gun loonies opens up. Hopefully, you question was somewhat answered? Cheaper to buy complete for a basic gun, cheaper to build if you want to go with a certain look, spec etc. and I will check on the Daniels Defence for your son.
It's Defense BTW.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 01, 2014, 10:20:13 AM
Back to the OPMy son looked into buy verses build and it looks cheaper to buy one out right then to build? Crazy... I guess when you buy in bulk you can put together those rifles pretty cheap.
Kinda went sideways discussion wise, as they sometimes do when opinion between us gun loonies opens up. Hopefully, you question was somewhat answered? Cheaper to buy complete for a basic gun, cheaper to build if you want to go with a certain look, spec etc. and I will check on the Daniels Defence for your son.
:yeah: When you ask us gun loonies for an opinion, you often get more than you bargained for. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with a .223. :chuckle:
Post by: mountainman on January 01, 2014, 10:26:20 AM
Post by: Swannytheswan on January 01, 2014, 05:45:23 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 01, 2014, 05:46:31 PM
Sorry I did thread jack ya... Bigger hammer thanks for the offer I will take you up on if when I get some OT
:tup: I have odds and ends you can just have.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 01, 2014, 10:17:01 PM