Post by: bigtex on January 09, 2014, 09:51:42 AM
HB 2156 introduced by Representatives Lytton (D) and Magendanz (R) would "waive" the penalty for failing to display the WDFW/Discover Pass if you can prove you owned a WDFW/Discover Pass at the time of the violation. While the penalty would be waived, you would still be required to pay court administrative costs not exceeding $25.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=2156&year=2013 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=2156&year=2013)
Post by: Special T on January 09, 2014, 10:03:23 AM
Post by: bobcat on January 09, 2014, 11:04:50 AM
Bad law.
Post by: bigtex on January 09, 2014, 11:05:56 AM
I can't agree with that change. What if I "own" a Discover Pass but my wife is using it on her car at the state park, while I'm out hunting on DNR land? The pass is only valid for one vehicle at a time, so if I don't have a pass in my vehicle at the time I am in violation and deserve a ticket. Proving that I have a Discover pass proves nothing.
Bad law.
That brings up a very valid point
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 09, 2014, 11:09:48 AM
I can't agree with that change. What if I "own" a Discover Pass but my wife is using it on her car at the state park, while I'm out hunting on DNR land? The pass is only valid for one vehicle at a time, so if I don't have a pass in my vehicle at the time I am in violation and deserve a ticket. Proving that I have a Discover pass proves nothing.
Bad law.
That brings up a very valid point
Valid point, but I'd rather a few people that knowingly skirt the law go free (less $25) than have ridiculously high penalties for a minor oversight. In that sense, it is a step in the right direction.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 09, 2014, 11:26:34 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2014, 11:37:42 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 09, 2014, 11:40:32 AM
I see the same group of women several days in a row each year walk their dogs from their houses, about a mile up a BLM road, go through a gate into DNR that is clearly posted Discover Pass Required, and continue on their little hike loop back to their houses. I'd be willing to bet not a one has a discover pass.
I see no mention of a vehicle............. But
I have a question......How many on here have ever been cited for no DP? As compared to those in DP required areas seeing vehicles that should have been and weren't?
My bet is #2 is a much larger segment
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 09, 2014, 11:41:14 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 09, 2014, 11:43:07 AM
Post by: bigtex on January 09, 2014, 11:57:28 AM
I see the same group of women several days in a row each year walk their dogs from their houses, about a mile up a BLM road, go through a gate into DNR that is clearly posted Discover Pass Required, and continue on their little hike loop back to their houses. I'd be willing to bet not a one has a discover pass.
That's not a violation. In order for a violation to occur a vehicle must be parked on state land (and in some cases be operated on state lands). If they leave their vehicle at home then they don't need a pass.
Post by: Curly on January 09, 2014, 11:58:09 AM
I can't agree with that change. What if I "own" a Discover Pass but my wife is using it on her car at the state park, while I'm out hunting on DNR land? The pass is only valid for one vehicle at a time, so if I don't have a pass in my vehicle at the time I am in violation and deserve a ticket. Proving that I have a Discover pass proves nothing.
Bad law.
It would still be a good change.
For your purposes, you and your wife really need separate passes. Then with the proposed change, if one of you forgets to display your passes, then you can get a reduced fine by proving you have the pass. I find it a good proposed change.................(though I'd rather have other changes).
Post by: bobcat on January 09, 2014, 12:15:55 PM
Here's another example. Say I have a discover pass and have written the license plate numbers of two vehicles on it. I then end up selling one of those vehicles and buying a new one. I now need to purchase a second Discover pass for the new car, since each pass you buy can only be used on two vehicles. But what if I don't?
With this proposed change, I only have to show proof of purchasing the pass. If I had actually displayed the old pass while on state land in my new car, I would be given the maximum penalty. However if I drove the new car on state land with my invalid pass (because it doesn't have the license plate number of the new car on it) then I would not have to pay the fine.
That's simply not fair. This is a really dumb idea. I can think of better ways to improve it. This would only make it worse.
Post by: bigtex on January 09, 2014, 12:18:09 PM
This bill would essentially say if you had already purchased the pass before the violation date then you would not face a reduced fine but rather just the court admin costs.
Post by: igotbigbulls on January 09, 2014, 12:44:39 PM
I see the same group of women several days in a row each year walk their dogs from their houses, about a mile up a BLM road, go through a gate into DNR that is clearly posted Discover Pass Required, and continue on their little hike loop back to their houses. I'd be willing to bet not a one has a discover pass.
are they required to? just curious.
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2014, 12:54:05 PM
good for them too, if their a walking who caresSo you can park next to the DNR land and walk in without having to purchase a pass?
Post by: bigtex on January 09, 2014, 12:55:44 PM
good for them too, if their a walking who caresSo you can park next to the DNR land and walk in without having to purchase a pass?
Yes. As long as you are not parked on state land you can walk in. If you park at a DNR gate and the area you parked is DNR you need the pass. If you parked across the street on non-DNR land and walked in you don't need it.
The Discover Pas is NOT an access pass, it is a parking pass (and in some cases required to drive on certain state lands)
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2014, 12:57:40 PM
That would explain why they all park at the woman's house :tup:good for them too, if their a walking who caresSo you can park next to the DNR land and walk in without having to purchase a pass?
Yes. As long as you are not parked on state land you can walk in. If you park at a DNR gate and the area you parked is DNR you need the pass. If you parked across the street on non-DNR land and walked in you don't need it.
The Discover Pas is NOT an access pass, it is a parking pass (and in some cases required to drive on certain state lands)
Post by: Curly on January 09, 2014, 01:07:58 PM
The law needs to require that the pass be displayed. There are lots of reasons a person could have purchased a pass and still not be legal for the vehicle that is being driven at the time.
Here's another example. Say I have a discover pass and have written the license plate numbers of two vehicles on it. I then end up selling one of those vehicles and buying a new one. I now need to purchase a second Discover pass for the new car, since each pass you buy can only be used on two vehicles. But what if I don't?
With this proposed change, I only have to show proof of purchasing the pass. If I had actually displayed the old pass while on state land in my new car, I would be given the maximum penalty. However if I drove the new car on state land with my invalid pass (because it doesn't have the license plate number of the new car on it) then I would not have to pay the fine.
That's simply not fair. This is a really dumb idea. I can think of better ways to improve it. This would only make it worse.
The whole DP is not fair and is a really dumb idea. You are right, there are better ways to improve it............but I don't see how the added law would make it any worse. (You are still required to display the pass. They are just saying you can get out of the fine, but have to pay $25).
One reason why I hadn't bought a DP yet (besides my utter hatred toward it) is that I was waiting to get my new truck before buying it so I wouldn't have to buy another one after I got rid of the old truck.
Post by: bobcat on January 09, 2014, 01:15:30 PM
Instead of this they need to make it impossible to forget. Give us a sticker for each vehicle. Then people won't have any excuses.
Post by: Curly on January 09, 2014, 01:49:12 PM
I do think there should be a vinyl sticker that can be affixed to the inside of your vehicle windshield. That would be the best solution..........just like they used to have (maybe still do) for the yearly State Park boat launch pass. :tup:
Post by: The Weazle on January 09, 2014, 07:06:12 PM
just like they used to have (maybe still do) for the yearly State Park boat launch pass. :tup:
They still have that boat launch pass…Its called the Natural Investment Pass. Yes its a vinyl sticker, and yes its transferrable between vehicles. There are no ownership markings on them at all. I have borrowed friends, and they have borrowed mine, but those passes also cost about $100 now…
I do agree though, the DP should be one of those stickers. I don't even care if you can borrow your neighbors, at least the car at the spot required has it. I wonder how many officers really read the license plate number written on the current pass and compare it to the one on the car…I bet most just walk buy, see the pass, take note of the exp date of the pass and keep on cruising!
Post by: ICEMAN on January 09, 2014, 07:11:22 PM
But, if you are going to require me to carry and display, then I want those who do not to pay the cost of enforcing the damned law. I suggest they increase the penalty for not displaying the pass, and really crank up the penalty for no pass.
When are we going to hold people accountable for their actions or lack of?
Post by: stuckalot on January 09, 2014, 07:52:06 PM
good for them too, if their a walking who caresSo you can park next to the DNR land and walk in without having to purchase a pass?
Yes. As long as you are not parked on state land you can walk in. If you park at a DNR gate and the area you parked is DNR you need the pass. If you parked across the street on non-DNR land and walked in you don't need it.
The Discover Pas is NOT an access pass, it is a parking pass (and in some cases required to drive on certain state lands)
One more problem with the discover pass! It's only a tax on those of us that use our nasty ugly gas guzzling co2 emitting vehicles to visit state lands! If you're participating in a politically correct environmentally friendly societally approved activity you can recreate anywhere you want for FREE! Likewise 100 filthy hippies can show up in the love bus, take over the campground and have their own hempfest all for the cost of ONE discover pass! Where's the equality in that?
Post by: bigtex on January 09, 2014, 07:52:40 PM
But, if you are going to require me to carry and display, then I want those who do not to pay the cost of enforcing the damned law. I suggest they increase the penalty for not displaying the pass, and really crank up the penalty for no pass.
When are we going to hold people accountable for their actions or lack of?
The fine right now for parking without it is $99, fine for operating the vehicle without it is $216. DNR and WDFW were the agencies that mainly issued the operating tickets, but as a result of the 2013 legislation there really isn't any WDFW or DNR lands that you need it to be displayed while operating a vehicle so those tickets aren't really being written anymore.
The last year the "old" WDFW pass (pre 2011) was in effect it was a natural resource infraction (just like a barbed hook, no life jacket, etc) with a fine of $136. The fine right now is a parking citation, just like a parking citation you would get from a city PD.
So in reality, the "old" pass had a higher penalty then the "new" WDFW/Discover Pass.
Post by: sebek556 on January 09, 2014, 08:17:10 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2014, 11:10:21 PM
LMAO :chuckle: you paint a very visual picture. :tup:good for them too, if their a walking who caresSo you can park next to the DNR land and walk in without having to purchase a pass?
Yes. As long as you are not parked on state land you can walk in. If you park at a DNR gate and the area you parked is DNR you need the pass. If you parked across the street on non-DNR land and walked in you don't need it.
The Discover Pas is NOT an access pass, it is a parking pass (and in some cases required to drive on certain state lands)
One more problem with the discover pass! It's only a tax on those of us that use our nasty ugly gas guzzling co2 emitting vehicles to visit state lands! If you're participating in a politically correct environmentally friendly societally approved activity you can recreate anywhere you want for FREE! Likewise 100 filthy hippies can show up in the love bus, take over the campground and have their own hempfest all for the cost of ONE discover pass! Where's the equality in that?
Post by: uPlinker on January 10, 2014, 03:41:34 AM
... I'd rather a few people that knowingly skirt the law go free (less $25) than have ridiculously high penalties for a minor oversight. In that sense, it is a step in the right direction.
I like your thinking. The innocent are more important than the guilty.
Post by: skeeter 20i on January 21, 2014, 12:34:42 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 23, 2014, 04:48:31 PM
In 2012 and 13 there were 3,807 parking violations issued that were reduced from $99 to $59. Now obviously the state doesn't know how many of those 3,807 had the DP at the time of the violation so this financial impact is giving two numbers.
If 100% of those people had their citations go from $99 to just the simply $25 processing fee the state would lose $112,306 for the Discover Pass. For the bill, the state is using a 50% percentage so they assume the state will lose $56,153 for the program.
Now an interesting thing to note is right now local courts don't get funds for the violation. But under this bill the $25 admin fee would go to the court. So if this bill were to pass courts would actually receive $47,575 in revenue.
Post by: buckfvr on January 23, 2014, 04:50:02 PM
Post by: csaaphill on January 26, 2014, 07:15:07 PM
good direction
if u have it but forget to post ya waive fines penolties etc..