Post by: REHJWA on January 14, 2014, 11:22:47 PM
I was reading in DEC 2013 Bugle about a lady who killed her bull at 200 yards with a solid copper .243 bullet.
Post by: huntnphool on January 14, 2014, 11:27:47 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2014, 11:31:27 PM
Post by: bracer40 on January 14, 2014, 11:31:50 PM
.243 for elk. Possible, but I sure wouldn't recommend it or do it myself. Why risk wounding and losing the animal?
Post by: huntnphool on January 14, 2014, 11:33:52 PM
Yea and people kill animals with 1000 yd shots too.Been plenty of moose posted up around here the last few years killed with a .243 as well.
.243 for elk. Possible, but I sure wouldn't recommend it or do it myself. Why risk wounding and losing the animal?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2014, 11:50:36 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 14, 2014, 11:56:13 PM
Choosing a lighter rifle is not risking loosing it. Taking poor shots is risking loosing a animal.+1
Post by: REHJWA on January 15, 2014, 12:09:31 AM
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2014, 12:29:41 AM
But, it would not be my recommendation for most hunters. Elk get people excited. Excited people tend to be a little loose with their shot placement. I know we are all 1,000 yard snipers these days, but I'd rather see a lady or young man shooting a .27 bullet or larger on elk. Just incase the nerves get the better of them. A little caution and a heavy bullet goes a long way when hunting elk.
I think most ladies and young men can handle the 130 grain bullet of a 270 or the 140 grain bullet of a 7-08 just as well as the 243. Both far superior to the 80 - 100 grain 6mm bullets when heavy bone must be penetrated.
Post by: Huntboy on January 15, 2014, 02:55:50 AM
Choosing a lighter rifle is not risking loosing it. Taking poor shots is risking loosing a animal.+1
:yeah:
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2014, 06:26:40 AM
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Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2014, 06:31:18 AM
It will work most of time, but bigger is better.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 15, 2014, 06:32:23 AM
Post by: motg9_6 on January 15, 2014, 06:33:19 AM
Post by: coachcw on January 15, 2014, 06:35:16 AM
Post by: Thehowler on January 15, 2014, 06:49:39 AM
Post by: casey58 on January 15, 2014, 07:12:00 AM
Quote
Choosing a lighter rifle is not risking loosing it. Taking poor shots is risking loosing a animal:yeah:
It's all shot placement. A 243 is more then capable of taking the wind out of a elk. I love my 243, I have yet to have any animal make it more then 30yds after the shot.
Post by: tonymiller7 on January 15, 2014, 07:55:15 AM
Sorry couldn't help myself!
Post by: Peregrine on January 15, 2014, 08:09:05 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 15, 2014, 08:14:34 AM
The difference in a 1 lung / liver shot with a .270 sounds better than a similarly placed 90-100 grain .243
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on January 15, 2014, 08:18:47 AM
Post by: BullMagnet76 on January 15, 2014, 08:33:07 AM
Post by: muleyslayer on January 15, 2014, 08:41:29 AM
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on January 15, 2014, 08:44:10 AM
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2014, 08:47:01 AM
.243 is an awesome round. I use mine for all big game hunting
Maybe, but a 338 Win Mag is definitely MORE awesome!
Post by: cbond3318 on January 15, 2014, 09:08:57 AM
Post by: coachcw on January 15, 2014, 09:15:28 AM
Post by: et1702 on January 15, 2014, 09:21:08 AM
ET
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2014, 10:10:19 AM
Elk are big, tough animals. If your shot happens to strike the wrong bone, or nick a vital area, bullet performance can make the difference between a dead animal, a wounded animal that doesn’t travel far, or a wounded animal you can’t catch up to.
The difference in surface area between a .243 bullet and a .277 bullet is 30%. The difference in surface area between a .243 bullet and a .308 bullet is 60%. It may not matter 19 times out of 20, or 49 times out of 50…but it could.
If bullet size doesn’t matter, ask yourself why cape buffalo hunters don’t use a .243.
Post by: motg9_6 on January 15, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
Post by: C-Money on January 15, 2014, 10:29:19 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2014, 10:36:31 AM
The topic is about elk with a .243. Not cape buffalo, or elephants. Its about ELK!Other animals disprove the statement that "shot placement" is all that matters.
On to ELK: how about a .223? They're legal in some states. 17 HMR? .218 Bee?
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 15, 2014, 10:43:04 AM
However... the margin for error is very small, and bullet and shot selection very important. Personnally I would see if another rifle is an option.
Depending on the gun and load an 06 can produce a pretty good thump. As a self proclaimed recoil pansie, I would look into 308 or 7mm-08 and see how she shoots those. Just because somebody is not "comfortable" doesnt mean they cant perform very well once pushed to the next comfort zone. If another gun is not an option, my criteria would fall to shootability. As bob33 pointed out it may not matter 19 times out of 20, apply the same principle to shooting. And go with the gun she is most consistent with, and trust the better shooting not more power. IMO and experience not trying to start a war :chuckle: Barring physical limitations, women on average have been much better game shots than the guys. This seems to ring even more true for newer hunters.
Post by: xXLojackXx on January 15, 2014, 10:53:52 AM
Take a broadside or quartering away shot and you'll be just fine.
Post by: C-Money on January 15, 2014, 10:55:24 AM
Post by: dscubame on January 15, 2014, 12:53:48 PM
We have a duty as hunters to make ethical decisions. That includes making clean, humane kill shots. Most hunters get buck fever before taking shots, you need to use a caliber big enough to cover you in case you make a nervous poor shot. Not everyone is gonna make that perfectly placed shot, so why would you try and get CUTE with a 243??? I would say a 270 is the absolute smallest you should attempt. To me even that is pushin it.
And this comes from a Bow Hunter? You must not bow hunt elk then if as you say a 270 is the absolute smallest you should attempt because a arrow is far far far less than a 270 let alone a .243.
I hunt elk with a .243 without issue. :tup:
Post by: dartondude on January 15, 2014, 01:09:56 PM
And this comes from a Bow Hunter? You must not bow hunt elk then if as you say a 270 is the absolute smallest you should attempt because a arrow is far far far less than a 270 let alone a .243.
I hunt elk with a .243 without issue. :tup:
comparing oranges to apples..someone with a .243 could be tempted to take a 400 yards shot, someone with a bow--never. rifle hunters often expect to be able to plow through a heavy shoulder bone to reach vitals, bowhunters almost always take only a broadside/quartering away shot.
Post by: buckfvr on January 15, 2014, 01:25:39 PM
.243 at 400 is probably no more common than an arrow at 100..........people are all different.........so is their idea of an acceptable shot.
Post by: steeleywhopper on January 15, 2014, 01:26:45 PM
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2014, 01:47:23 PM
You have a 400 class bull feeding unaware at 300 yards. Beside you on at your vantage point you have a sub-MOA 243 loaded with 90 grain well constructed bullets - 3,200 at muzzle. Beside that you have a Sub-MOA .270WSM loaded with 140 grain well constructed bullets - 3,200 at muzzle. You shoot one every bit as well as you do the other. Wind is about 10 mph going uphill. Rain is falling steady and the ground is soaked, blood trailing could be difficult. The terrain is such that you will probably only get one single shot at this trophy of a lifetime. How many are going to chose the .243?
I don't think it would take me long to make a decision. And if my decision would be so quick in the heat of the moment, why would it not be the same when afforded the time to make that same decision before the season starts? Between 270WSM or 7mm Rem might be a little more difficult. As would 300WM or 338WM. But .243 or 270? That's a pretty easy decision in my book.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 15, 2014, 01:55:33 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 15, 2014, 02:00:08 PM
You might look at it this way;
You have a 400 class bull feeding unaware at 300 yards. Beside you on at your vantage point you have a sub-MOA 243 loaded with 90 grain well constructed bullets - 3,200 at muzzle. Beside that you have a Sub-MOA .270WSM loaded with 140 grain well constructed bullets - 3,200 at muzzle. You shoot one every bit as well as you do the other. Wind is about 10 mph going uphill. Rain is falling steady and the ground is soaked, blood trailing could be difficult. The terrain is such that you will probably only get one single shot at this trophy of a lifetime. How many are going to chose the .243?
I don't think it would take me long to make a decision. And if my decision would be so quick in the heat of the moment, why would it not be the same when afforded the time to make that same decision before the season starts? Between 270WSM or 7mm Rem might be a little more difficult. As would 300WM or 338WM. But .243 or 270? That's a pretty easy decision in my book.
Whew! You got my heart pumpin' with that scenario. Made me choose the .270 all over again.
Post by: TeacherMan on January 15, 2014, 02:09:18 PM
The topic is about elk with a .243. Not cape buffalo, or elephants. Its about ELK!Other animals disprove the statement that "shot placement" is all that matters.
On to ELK: how about a .223? They're legal in some states. 17 HMR? .218 Bee?
This thread needs pics :chuckle: Personally I think its to small but have taken two elk with a .243 back when deer and elk season overlaped. But if a person if more comforable with it and doesn't flinch and keeps their shots under 250yds go for it! I'm a big guy I'll stick with my 338RUM...
Pic of a nice bull taken with an AR in .223 ;)
Post by: Buzz2401 on January 15, 2014, 02:43:02 PM
Post by: dscubame on January 15, 2014, 02:53:30 PM
If you can kill an elk with a bow you sure as hell can kill one with a 243
That was my point and many others exactly. :tup:
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2014, 03:03:33 PM
If you can kill an elk with a bow you sure as hell can kill one with a 243
You can kill an elephant and Cape Buffalo with a bow. Why is illegal to us a .243? Try shooting through a 2 gallon bucket of sand with a .243 and then do the same with a bow. No comparison which penetrates better...the bow. Terminal ballistics are apples to oranges. The above statement is completely ridiculous. I hear it all the time and always have to shake my head about the narrow minded vision and lack of understanding openly displayed on the subject.
Post by: dartondude on January 15, 2014, 03:05:58 PM
and my point was, in some cases, people who hunt with the big boys (rifle season) think they can shoot like the big boys (normal elk calibers). As long as you have mental attitude that you won't be able to do everything somebody with a 300 win mag can, then go ahead and hunt elk with a .243If you can kill an elk with a bow you sure as hell can kill one with a 243
That was my point and many others exactly. :tup:
Post by: BullMagnet76 on January 15, 2014, 03:07:20 PM
.243 is an awesome round. I use mine for all big game hunting
Maybe, but a 338 Win Mag is definitely MORE awesome!
:yeah:
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 15, 2014, 03:07:32 PM
If you can kill an elk with a bow you sure as hell can kill one with a 243
That was my point and many others exactly. :tup:
They kill way differently. I'm not arguing that a 243 is capable, but to say just cuz a bow can do it. Isnt realistic.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 15, 2014, 03:08:35 PM
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2014, 03:08:58 PM
:yeah: I agree Rad.... But for giggles :chuckle: lets say you have both guns. The 270 you can make the shot at 300, 19 out of 20 times. The 243 you do it 20 out of 20. does your decision change? That seems to be more of the scenario the op may be presented with.
My question would be; If I can make that shot 19 times why can't I make it 20 out of 20? No my decision does not change.
Post by: dartondude on January 15, 2014, 03:09:36 PM
Excellent point...very well statedIf you can kill an elk with a bow you sure as hell can kill one with a 243
You can kill an elephant and Cape Buffalo with a bow. Why is illegal to us a .243? Try shooting through a 2 gallon bucket of sand with a .243 and then do the same with a bow. No comparison which penetrates better...the bow. Terminal ballistics are apples to oranges. The above statement is completely ridiculous. I hear it all the time and always have to shake my head about the narrow minded vision and lack of understanding openly displayed on the subject.
Post by: dscubame on January 15, 2014, 03:11:30 PM
If you can kill an elk with a bow you sure as hell can kill one with a 243
You can kill an elephant and Cape Buffalo with a bow. Why is illegal to us a .243? Try shooting through a 2 gallon bucket of sand with a .243 and then do the same with a bow. No comparison which penetrates better...the bow. Terminal ballistics are apples to oranges. The above statement is completely ridiculous. I hear it all the time and always have to shake my head about the narrow minded vision and lack of understanding openly displayed on the subject.
Hydrostatic shock and "stopping power" comes to mind and for this reason I consider your reply ironic in that your post seems to be the narrow minded vision and lack of understanding being openly displayed. Not to mention rude.
Post by: C-Money on January 15, 2014, 03:19:20 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 15, 2014, 03:22:44 PM
:yeah: I agree Rad.... But for giggles :chuckle: lets say you have both guns. The 270 you can make the shot at 300, 19 out of 20 times. The 243 you do it 20 out of 20. does your decision change? That seems to be more of the scenario the op may be presented with.
My question would be; If I can make that shot 19 times why can't I make it 20 out of 20? No my decision does not change.
Agreed. But thats not the context. The OP has stated his wife is more comfortable with the 243 thatn the 06. I am going to assume that translates to more accurate ( although that is an assumption on my part), so in that situation I go with the weapon I have 100 percent confidence.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 15, 2014, 03:45:54 PM
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2014, 04:09:52 PM
Agreed. But thats not the context. The OP has stated his wife is more comfortable with the 243 thatn the 06. I am going to assume that translates to more accurate ( although that is an assumption on my part), so in that situation I go with the weapon I have 100 percent confidence.:yeah: I agree Rad.... But for giggles :chuckle: lets say you have both guns. The 270 you can make the shot at 300, 19 out of 20 times. The 243 you do it 20 out of 20. does your decision change? That seems to be more of the scenario the op may be presented with.
My question would be; If I can make that shot 19 times why can't I make it 20 out of 20? No my decision does not change.
Agreed! If I shot the .243 better and had the most confidence in it - Yes I would chose the .243. And if I had only one gun being a good shooting .243 I wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk. But, most women can handle the 270's where few handle the 30-06 well. And the 7-08 is a little sweetheart with an edge on bigger game. Given time and funding I would give some effort into finding something with a bit wider margin for error. If that's not in the cards work with what you've got. No problem there it's legal.
Post by: Holg3107 on January 15, 2014, 04:30:55 PM
Post by: elkfins on January 15, 2014, 05:15:59 PM
What it really boils down to is how comfortable is the shooter with the rifle and maybe more importantly, the shot that's presented. If I was hunting elk with a .243, I would certainly be much more mindful whether or not to take a shot as opposed to shooting with a .338 Win Mag. For instance, I wouldn't try to punch through the front shoulder with the .243 where I would have no hesitation doing that with the .338. I wouldn't necessarily take a shot at an elk that was moving with the .243 where I would with a larger caliber rifle that had more stopping power.
In fact, I can think of many circumstances where I've encountered elk in the past that I would not take a shot with a smaller caliber rifle where I would with a larger caliber rifle... this is, of course, assuming I had the tag for the animal at the time I encountered it.
Interestingly enough the 5pt I shot this year didn't even flinch when I hit him in the heart with 2 165gr 30-06 ballistic tip bullets. After the 2nd shot he ran uphill for 25 yards before he stopped for a few seconds then fell. I've shot several elk with that same load and this is the first one that didn't react to being shot.
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2014, 05:48:38 PM
Post by: boomstick on January 16, 2014, 12:58:07 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on January 16, 2014, 01:17:13 PM
Post by: motg9_6 on January 16, 2014, 01:46:03 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 16, 2014, 06:32:30 PM
Post by: akirkland on January 16, 2014, 08:01:00 PM
opinions vary
Very much so. Good conversation though.
Post by: kevinlisa06 on January 16, 2014, 09:29:36 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mountainman on January 16, 2014, 11:10:08 PM
Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes. :DOH:much prefer one accurate shot. One shot, one kill..pretty easy with an accurate, light recoiling .243
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 17, 2014, 07:34:20 AM
After the last shooting session I loaded those same bullets up to 2,900fps, took the rifle back out and zeroed it and she never even knew. In the heat of battle recoil is not felt. If you don't reload you can pick up some of those Remington reduced recoil loads and let her practice with those and then switch to a hunting load for game day. My wife now shoots a 140gr bullet loaded to the max! She is a 5ft, 115lb beast!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 17, 2014, 07:36:43 AM
I'd pretty much shoot anything with a .243 and the right bullet for the application. I prefer much bigger but in the end. Dead is dead. Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes.I am the same way. I don't care if I watch the impact of the bullet right behind the shoulder, if they are still on their feet I am shooting! Bullets are cheap and tracking sucks!
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 17, 2014, 07:50:19 AM
:yeah: and ill add how much fun shooting at things is.I'd pretty much shoot anything with a .243 and the right bullet for the application. I prefer much bigger but in the end. Dead is dead. Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes.I am the same way. I don't care if I watch the impact of the bullet right behind the shoulder, if they are still on their feet I am shooting! Bullets are cheap and tracking sucks!
Post by: runningboard on January 17, 2014, 08:05:32 AM
:yeah:I'd pretty much shoot anything with a .243 and the right bullet for the application. I prefer much bigger but in the end. Dead is dead. Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes.I am the same way. I don't care if I watch the impact of the bullet right behind the shoulder, if they are still on their feet I am shooting! Bullets are cheap and tracking sucks!
I've told & retold my kids, "elk are tough animals, even if you are sure you hit it good in the right spot, if it is still standing, shoot it again."
on topic, I know a lady who has killed a truckload of elk over the years, always & still does use a .243
Post by: REHJWA on January 17, 2014, 11:23:11 AM
You might look at it this way;The lady in the story did pass on a bigger bull because it was "out of her comfort range".
You have a 400 class bull feeding unaware at 300 yards. Beside you on at your vantage point you have a sub-MOA 243 loaded with 90 grain well constructed bullets - 3,200 at muzzle. Beside that you have a Sub-MOA .270WSM loaded with 140 grain well constructed bullets - 3,200 at muzzle. You shoot one every bit as well as you do the other. Wind is about 10 mph going uphill. Rain is falling steady and the ground is soaked, blood trailing could be difficult. The terrain is such that you will probably only get one single shot at this trophy of a lifetime. How many are going to chose the .243?
I don't think it would take me long to make a decision. And if my decision would be so quick in the heat of the moment, why would it not be the same when afforded the time to make that same decision before the season starts? Between 270WSM or 7mm Rem might be a little more difficult. As would 300WM or 338WM. But .243 or 270? That's a pretty easy decision in my book.
Post by: RadSav on January 17, 2014, 11:35:35 AM
Post by: Curly on January 17, 2014, 11:36:24 AM
Heck, if recoil is an issue, put a brake on a .270 and recoil won't be an issue anymore. (although I can't see recoil being an issue for many people with a .270 and 130 gr bullets).
Post by: MountainWalk on January 17, 2014, 11:40:22 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on January 17, 2014, 11:47:49 AM
Post by: Kittman on January 17, 2014, 12:30:18 PM
Post by: boomstick on January 17, 2014, 12:38:01 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 17, 2014, 12:41:49 PM
I wonder if any of these lightly armed sportsmen/women have ever lost an elk? I mean, we all make mistakes. Tons of lions in Africa have been killed with the 303 Brit; elephant too. But countless untold went crippled and or lost. If you are going elk hunting, and do indeed plan on killing one, then you are going to have to pack him out. Thats worse than the kick of any rifle. Kick is just a flash instant of noise. I've never been bothered by recoil while on game. If you spend days after something, one flash instance of something isn' going to be a dec iding or limiting factor in getting the job done.Agreed that recoil in the heat of battle is irrelevant but if the recoil is too great that one cannot practice effectively than it doesn't matter. I would rather have someone shoot an underpowered cartridge and be able to put that round in the money than shoot a larger caliber that they can't shoot accurately with because they can't practice.
Post by: Woodchuck on January 17, 2014, 12:43:59 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on January 17, 2014, 12:46:34 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 17, 2014, 01:08:28 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on January 17, 2014, 01:11:55 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 17, 2014, 01:14:54 PM
Post by: snowpack on January 17, 2014, 01:49:48 PM
I don't recommend it for beginners on big animals, but if they are determined to use it I would be very selective in what bullet to use.
Post by: Broken Arrow on January 17, 2014, 02:15:34 PM
Post by: Don Fischer on January 17, 2014, 02:27:59 PM
Post by: RadSav on January 17, 2014, 04:16:36 PM
I was trying to look up a story I once read about where as some famous old trapper used nothing but a .243 for all his hunts in Alaska. My search took me upon an Alaskan hunting forum where folks were having the same discussion, if the .243 was adequate for moose? The 3 pages I read were slanted about 60/40 in favor of the round. Go figure....
I think the key word there, as it is here, is "adequate". I'm sure it is not preferred for moose or elk, but it certainly is adequate.
Anyone remember the old advertisement featuring the guy that stopped a charging Kodiak brown bear with his .243? I think it was a Nosler Partition ad. I bought my first 6mm after seeing that ad! It was a good one.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 17, 2014, 08:06:26 PM
Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes. :DOH:much prefer one accurate shot. One shot, one kill..pretty easy with an accurate, light recoiling .243
One shot, one kill is a farce, movie stuff.
Post by: RadSav on January 17, 2014, 08:12:08 PM
Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes. :DOH:much prefer one accurate shot. One shot, one kill..pretty easy with an accurate, light recoiling .243
One shot, one kill is a fares, movie stuff.
No matter how dirty the barrel is, when the squaw has a big one in front of her, a single fowling shot is always needed. That's her story and she's sticking with it :chuckle:
Post by: Curly on January 17, 2014, 08:12:52 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 17, 2014, 08:16:06 PM
Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes. :DOH:much prefer one accurate shot. One shot, one kill..pretty easy with an accurate, light recoiling .243
One shot, one kill is a fares, movie stuff.
No matter how dirty the barrel is, when the squaw has a big one in front of her, a single fowling shot is always needed. That's her story and she's sticking with it :chuckle:
I don't hunt with squaws.😉
Post by: RadSav on January 17, 2014, 08:19:55 PM
I don't hunt with squaws.😉.
Believe me. I often wish I could say the same :chuckle:
Post by: martin1 on January 17, 2014, 08:29:33 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on January 17, 2014, 08:34:31 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 17, 2014, 08:36:00 PM
i shot several spikes with my 243,my brother has shot a couple with his 243. farthest i shot one that was at 300 yards in the lungs.its all about shot placement he took a few steps and tipped over. 100 grain nosler partion does the trick :twocents:
Rumor has it, just the sight of a Nosler Partition has killed several Elk.
Post by: mountainman on January 17, 2014, 10:35:45 PM
Rad, thats funny. Maybe she wnta to make it challenging!? :dunno: :)Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes. :DOH:much prefer one accurate shot. One shot, one kill..pretty easy with an accurate, light recoiling .243
One shot, one kill is a fares, movie stuff.
No matter how dirty the barrel is, when the squaw has a big one in front of her, a single fowling shot is always needed. That's her story and she's sticking with it :chuckle:
Hammer, yes, it is a " farce" for some. :). There are those who need to bring a pocket o shells just to get it done! :o
Post by: Westside88 on January 17, 2014, 10:41:29 PM
Post by: REHJWA on January 17, 2014, 11:49:30 PM
I pushed her to use the 30-06 because I felt it was the better round.
As far as hunting with women, it is a lot easier to get a kitchen pass when the wife is dragging you to the hills...
And I would love to se someone tell her elk hunting is not for women.
:bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid:
Post by: RadSav on January 18, 2014, 01:56:54 AM
And I would love to se someone tell her elk hunting is not for women.
:bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid:
:chuckle: :chuckle: Join the club! :chuckle: :chuckle:
The 30-06 is too much gun for a lot of lightweight guys let alone small framed women. O'Connor wrote a number of times about it being deceptively punishing. My wife would rather shoot the 338WM than most '06's. She even complains about the 7# 308 being a little harsh. But she loves both the 270Win and the 270WSM if they have a Sims pad on them. She'd probably shoot nothing else if they could be efficient in a lightweight 20" barrel and able to be cut down to 12.5 LOP.
We've had a lot of discussions as to what she is going to do if we are ever lucky enough to get her a multi-season elk tag. Build her a special 7/08 or 270? Load something special for the Bob? Maybe it's possible to cut down a Kimber Montana :dunno: We still haven't been able to decide. Guess we can make that decision once we finally see "Selected".
It's a tough choice when options for women with short LOP is so limited.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on January 18, 2014, 03:13:01 AM
And I would love to se someone tell her elk hunting is not for women.
:bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid:
:chuckle: :chuckle: Join the club! :chuckle: :chuckle:
The 30-06 is too much gun for a lot of lightweight guys let alone small framed women. O'Connor wrote a number of times about it being deceptively punishing. My wife would rather shoot the 338WM than most '06's. She even complains about the 7# 308 being a little harsh. But she loves both the 270Win and the 270WSM if they have a Sims pad on them. She'd probably shoot nothing else if they could be efficient in a lightweight 20" barrel and able to be cut down to 12.5 LOP.
We've had a lot of discussions as to what she is going to do if we are ever lucky enough to get her a multi-season elk tag. Build her a special 7/08 or 270? Load something special for the Bob? Maybe it's possible to cut down a Kimber Montana :dunno: We still haven't been able to decide. Guess we can make that decision once we finally see "Selected".
It's a tough choice when options for women with short LOP is so limited.
I would point to the 1903 Springfield and the P1917 Enfield and the size of the average combat soldier during WW1 and WW2. I think alot of the recoil debate is drama driven. I have been bringing my 12yo nephew to the range for the last couple years and had him shooting everything up to the big magnums. I havent said anything about recoil or hyped one rifle as "kicking" harder than another. (I'm sure he notices it, but probably figures it's part of the deal.) I guess if he brings it up we can talk about it, but until then i'm not saying a word.
Post by: RadSav on January 18, 2014, 03:53:30 AM
I think alot of the recoil debate is drama driven.
I kind of enjoy it for whatever reason. And I expect you are right in a way that it is a debate that adds worry and concern when not always warranted. I'd say the plan you have with your son appears to be a good one. But at the same time we see a dozen or so pictures each year of grown men with bleeding scope eye in their success photos. Probably more from the 30-06 than any other. Maybe that's because of the popularity of the '06, definitely from an improperly shouldered rifle, and maybe because folks tend to not give the '06 the respect it deserves :dunno: Either way I've seen more than one tough lady swear off the medium 30 cal because she either saw the evidence or experienced it first hand.
My wife is a tough SOB. She's experienced more abuse than any woman should ever experience in life. She fears very little with gun in hand. But she absolutely hates the '06. Is it rational? Heck, I don't know, I've never been a 130# girl. I do know she had an opportunity to shoot one of the largest black bear that would have ever been taken in the state of Washington. She was so worried about shooting the 30 again she missed an absolute gimme shot she could have otherwise made with her eyes closed. After the miss she tossed the gun at me and said, "Never, ever, ever will I shoot that gun again!" At that moment I realized it doesn't matter what I think. I needed to set her up with her own gun in a caliber/cartridge she had no fear of and was comfortable with. That was a lot of dead animals and some dang BIG bears ago.
We have a saying around our house. "If your not having fun why do it?" With the exception of paying taxes and scrubbing the toilets we come pretty close to holding true to that. We both have passed up and quit some stupidly high paying jobs because we were not having fun or figured we'd be miserable. So if my lady or the OP's lady is happy shooting a 243, 25 Bob or 270 when I'd rather she was shooting a .30...I lose. So far she has been dang near perfect with her little Bob. That makes me pretty dang happy too!
Post by: rtspring on January 18, 2014, 06:25:57 AM
.243 for elk? Heck yes!! Shoot them in the head.
Why is it so many go to a range and can put three bullets in a 3 inch circle but question calibers on big game?
Measure and elks head? Sure as heck is bigger than 3 inches!
Heart, liver, lungs? Shoot one in its head and it will fall over dead. Be it a 22 or a 416 Rigby.
If you cant shoot good at say 300 yards, you need to get closer..
I shoot a .300 Rum. Why? Because I have all the confidence in the world with that cartridge. Could I use a .243? Yep all day long...
These big Magnums are a feel good to hunters, but in reality they are not needed to kill big game..
Aim, breathe, squeeze!!
Rtspring
Post by: jason stevens on January 18, 2014, 06:29:28 AM
Post by: dscubame on January 18, 2014, 07:52:51 AM
A well placed shot with blades on the end of a stick can kill an elk so I'm sure a .243 would work also.
:tup:
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 18, 2014, 08:27:03 AM
Rad, thats funny. Maybe she wnta to make it challenging!? :dunno: :)Who says it only takes one? I shoot them into the ground, however many it takes. :DOH:much prefer one accurate shot. One shot, one kill..pretty easy with an accurate, light recoiling .243
One shot, one kill is a fares, movie stuff.
No matter how dirty the barrel is, when the squaw has a big one in front of her, a single fowling shot is always needed. That's her story and she's sticking with it :chuckle:
Hammer, yes, it is a " farce" for some. :). There are those who need to bring a pocket o shells just to get it done! :o
There are those that dramatize real world second shots just to get a reaction.
Post by: mountainman on January 18, 2014, 08:54:09 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 18, 2014, 09:02:36 AM
My point was a generality aimed at guys that take "iffy" shots thinking a magazine of ammo will have them covered. No dramatization, too many nuts out there that dont know how to shoot, or more importantly, when to shoot
Please refrain from directly Quoting me when "Generaly aiming at other guys". I believe the three of us were warned fairly clearly.
Post by: Curly on January 18, 2014, 09:51:19 AM
We've had a lot of discussions as to what she is going to do if we are ever lucky enough to get her a multi-season elk tag. Build her a special 7/08 or 270? Load something special for the Bob? Maybe it's possible to cut down a Kimber Montana :dunno: We still haven't been able to decide. Guess we can make that decision once we finally see "Selected".
It's a tough choice when options for women with short LOP is so limited.
A Ruger American compact model has a 12.5" LOP, weighs in at 6 pounds........has a 18" barrel (lot cheaper than a Kimber). Load up some 120 gr Barnes and it should be a light recoiling rifle that would be good for elk. :tup:
Post by: mountainman on January 18, 2014, 09:55:37 AM
Check out the Lady Hunter from Savage.We've had a lot of discussions as to what she is going to do if we are ever lucky enough to get her a multi-season elk tag. Build her a special 7/08 or 270? Load something special for the Bob? Maybe it's possible to cut down a Kimber Montana :dunno: We still haven't been able to decide. Guess we can make that decision once we finally see "Selected".
It's a tough choice when options for women with short LOP is so limited.
A Ruger American compact model has a 12.5" LOP, weighs in at 6 pounds........has a 18" barrel (lot cheaper than a Kimber). Load up some 120 gr Barnes and it should be a light recoiling rifle that would be good for elk. :tup:
Post by: Curly on January 18, 2014, 10:25:30 AM
6#-1oz with 20" barell and 12.5" LOP.
Post by: REHJWA on January 18, 2014, 10:31:47 AM
Post by: RadSav on January 18, 2014, 10:55:41 AM
We've had a lot of discussions as to what she is going to do if we are ever lucky enough to get her a multi-season elk tag. Build her a special 7/08 or 270? Load something special for the Bob? Maybe it's possible to cut down a Kimber Montana :dunno: We still haven't been able to decide. Guess we can make that decision once we finally see "Selected".
It's a tough choice when options for women with short LOP is so limited.
A Ruger American compact model has a 12.5" LOP, weighs in at 6 pounds........has a 18" barrel (lot cheaper than a Kimber). Load up some 120 gr Barnes and it should be a light recoiling rifle that would be good for elk. :tup:
I'm a bit of a "hater" when it comes to 18" barrels! She hasn't liked them much either.
We have looked into the Micro Midas in 7-08. That's definitely an option. Though she doesn't much care for the X-Bolt stock. She has real small hands and it didn't feel right to her.
Savage Lady Hunter would be nice in 7-08, but we find the 20" barrel in the 270 Win much like the 18" barrel in the 08's.
Post by: snowpack on January 18, 2014, 11:03:54 AM
Might just need to get a stock that fits the shooter better. Of the following(and the rifles used don't weigh too much different from each other): .300 RUM 180 gr, .30-06 150 gr and .30-30 150 gr; the most pleasant for me to shoot is the .300 RUM, the one I hate is the .30-30. I can throw the .300 up and it goes right where it needs to on my shoulder and cheek, and shoot it all day long. For the .30-30, I throw it up and it wants to shoulder about halfway down my bicep :bdid: so I have to pull it way in to wedge it on my shoulder and I have to twist my neck to get sight alignment. That gun can be brutal, but is fun to shoot so worth it I guess. the physics of it all would say that the comfort of those rifles would be reversed for me.I think alot of the recoil debate is drama driven.
I kind of enjoy it for whatever reason. And I expect you are right in a way that it is a debate that adds worry and concern when not always warranted. I'd say the plan you have with your son appears to be a good one. But at the same time we see a dozen or so pictures each year of grown men with bleeding scope eye in their success photos. Probably more from the 30-06 than any other. Maybe that's because of the popularity of the '06, definitely from an improperly shouldered rifle, and maybe because folks tend to not give the '06 the respect it deserves :dunno: Either way I've seen more than one tough lady swear off the medium 30 cal because she either saw the evidence or experienced it first hand.
My wife is a tough SOB. She's experienced more abuse than any woman should ever experience in life. She fears very little with gun in hand. But she absolutely hates the '06. Is it rational? Heck, I don't know, I've never been a 130# girl. I do know she had an opportunity to shoot one of the largest black bear that would have ever been taken in the state of Washington. She was so worried about shooting the 30 again she missed an absolute gimme shot she could have otherwise made with her eyes closed. After the miss she tossed the gun at me and said, "Never, ever, ever will I shoot that gun again!" At that moment I realized it doesn't matter what I think. I needed to set her up with her own gun in a caliber/cartridge she had no fear of and was comfortable with. That was a lot of dead animals and some dang BIG bears ago.
We have a saying around our house. "If your not having fun why do it?" With the exception of paying taxes and scrubbing the toilets we come pretty close to holding true to that. We both have passed up and quit some stupidly high paying jobs because we were not having fun or figured we'd be miserable. So if my lady or the OP's lady is happy shooting a 243, 25 Bob or 270 when I'd rather she was shooting a .30...I lose. So far she has been dang near perfect with her little Bob. That makes me pretty dang happy too!
Post by: Curly on January 18, 2014, 12:06:10 PM
Or go with a NULA (http://www.newultralight.com/HTML/custom-rifles.html) full custom model 20 for around $3,500. (the rifle only weighs 4.75 lbs) :tup:
Kimbers seem to be hit and miss in the accuracy dept from what I read, so I'd be nervous of getting a lemon. :dunno:
(Women sure are expensive aren't they) :P
:)
Post by: Bob33 on January 18, 2014, 12:09:08 PM
(She already has a 243.)
"Thanks, my wife is more comfortable shooting the .243 she got her deer with than the 30-06 I had her hunting with."
Post by: RadSav on January 18, 2014, 02:00:31 PM
If nothing else looks like an excuse to go gun hunting. I would never here the end of it if I callling it shopping....
When I got the Bob my wife is shooting now I made sure it was her choice. That seemed to go a long way in her connection with it. In discussing a potential elk rifle with her I've tried to swing the conversation toward 7-08 which I think she would like. And it makes sense given the gun choices out there. But after shooting the 270 WIN I think her mind is made up and she would like to try that. Doesn't make things easy for me, but when has a wife ever made things easy for her husband? I think that's part of their game :chuckle:
I realize the 257 Bob is capable as I expect you realize your wife's 243 is capable. However, I've felt my experience in the field has given some insight that I'm obligated to share with her. We discuss the limitations if she chooses to stay with what she has. She has agreed a bit more security, especially when that first shot isn't always what she had hoped for, wouldn't be such a bad thing. And so the discussion goes on. But make no mistake, the eventual decision will be hers no matter what I think. In the end it will make life a whole lot easier for me if I say, "Yes Dear. What ever you want I'll make it happen."
What do I expect to happen? I expect I will be buying a 270 Win Finnlight and a fine piece of Walnut. Should only take me a three weeks of carving, checkering and finishing to give her what she wants. All the while she will be reminding me that I knew she was difficult when I married her :)
Post by: Nice Racks on January 18, 2014, 05:17:52 PM
Post by: Curly on January 18, 2014, 05:20:30 PM
Some people will swear by Nosler Partitian, others will swear by Rem Core-lokt. Myself, I hate Core-lokt. :twocents:
Post by: blackdog on January 18, 2014, 05:40:44 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 18, 2014, 05:57:59 PM
Post by: mountainman on January 18, 2014, 06:27:31 PM
One of the biggest elk poachers I knew used nothing but a 22-250 and killed more big bulls than you guys could ever dream of, so I bet a .243 would work if you knew how to shoot. My wife used a 25-06 with 120s.The biggest one I knew used a single shot .22 for deer, bear and cats back in the late 80's back home, do you remember that? Spent 6 months working for Sig on that one!
Post by: kentrek on January 18, 2014, 07:19:46 PM
But heres a scenario....lil billy pulls up his 243 to blast his first bull..his mind has him scored as the new wa state record ...lil Billys heart starts to race...just as the safety goes off he remembers all the stories on hunt wa about people saying his gun is too small...just then the convulsive shakes begin and lil billy gets target panick an hits 5 feet above the bulls barley legal horns...it no longer matters that lil billy hit the paper plate 20 for 20 back at the range
Any doubt is too much doubt when it comes to killing..
I vote get a muzzle break an have em shoot a bigger Magnum.. :tup:
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 18, 2014, 10:15:46 PM
Kasandra Cow elk 688yds.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18#ws)
Post by: RadSav on January 18, 2014, 10:49:40 PM
Looks like it worked for Kasandra @688 yards
Piece of cake shot for her off the rack Tikka :chuckle: Pretty cool! I always like seeing the vapor trail in those videos.
Post by: mountainman on January 18, 2014, 11:13:28 PM
Post by: RadSav on January 19, 2014, 12:47:04 AM
Awesome one shot kill!! Yep, Tikka at that! Loved watching that one! :tup:
I fear folks are not going to realize we are being facetious about the off the shelf Tikka. :chuckle:
Yes, we know it's a Greybull.
Post by: RadSav on January 19, 2014, 03:13:07 AM
I'd looked at one for long range coyote whacking but never even considered it as a possible gun for the wife. Sounds like it might be a good one though. Not sure she would go for a 24" barrel, but we might have to make a road trip so she can shoot it (and me too!). Looks like it's also available in 257 Weatherby and 270 Win which are two of the three rounds we've discussed.
Post by: huntnphool on January 19, 2014, 10:56:57 AM
One of those guys I mentioned earlier that uses a 243 for everything was getting his new wife set up for elk this year. I figured since this topic was up I would reach out and send a text asking him what gun she ended up with. Turns out she got a Weatherby Back Country in 240. He loaded it with the 90 grain Speer Deep Curl and said it's a tack driver. First time she pulled the trigger on an animal it was a small 5X5 bull at around 325 yards quartering forward. Took out the front shoulder and blew up the heart. Stumbled about 5 yards and was done. He has now ordered one for himself.Ive got a couple youth model rifles, Ruger 7mm-08 with 16.5" barrel and Remington 700 .243 with 18" barrel. You are welcome to borrow them and let her try them out for comparison to others you are considering.
I'd looked at one for long range coyote whacking but never even considered it as a possible gun for the wife. Sounds like it might be a good one though. Not sure she would go for a 24" barrel, but we might have to make a road trip so she can shoot it (and me too!). Looks like it's also available in 257 Weatherby and 270 Win which are two of the three rounds we've discussed.
Post by: JLS on January 19, 2014, 11:13:28 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 20, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
How is the muzzle blast with the short barrels?Actually not as bad as I thought they would be.
Post by: high country on January 21, 2014, 07:31:19 AM
Post by: 7mm Bob on January 21, 2014, 07:57:46 AM
Post by: dscubame on January 21, 2014, 03:28:12 PM
simple answer, 243 for elk? It can be done, but that doesn't make it a good idea
After 6 pages it is greatly obvious the answer is not simple. And a .243 is a grand idea. As with archery it is shot placement and understanding caliber limitations that exist with all calibers.
Post by: deltaops on January 21, 2014, 04:05:25 PM
Go with the rifle you are comfortable with, chances are you have shot it many of times and know where the bullet will hit.
My son shoots his .243 with precision when he takes his time. He is only 9 and he does get excited but when I am with him I talk him through every step and help keep him calm.
He shoots my .308 but has issues hitting the target because he flinches. He shoots a .270 but he still flinches a little. He is comfortable with his .243 100gr and can drive nails all day when he wants too at 100yds. I would rather have him use his .243 any ole day than my .308 due to the fact he is comfortable with it and in turn he can shoot it damn good.
Post by: C-Money on January 21, 2014, 07:19:15 PM
Post by: Band on January 22, 2014, 10:41:17 AM
Elk are a lot tougher to bring down than moose. Moose think they are 10' tall and bullet proof but they're only about half right.Yea and people kill animals with 1000 yd shots too.Been plenty of moose posted up around here the last few years killed with a .243 as well.
.243 for elk. Possible, but I sure wouldn't recommend it or do it myself. Why risk wounding and losing the animal?
Post by: trophyelk6x6 on January 22, 2014, 06:17:54 PM
Post by: mountainman on January 24, 2014, 10:44:04 PM
but a factory Tikka topped with a Vortex would be capable dor alot less then a Greybull, huh Rad? Lol :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno:Awesome one shot kill!! Yep, Tikka at that! Loved watching that one! :tup:
I fear folks are not going to realize we are being facetious about the off the shelf Tikka. :chuckle:
Yes, we know it's a Greybull.
Post by: RadSav on January 24, 2014, 11:39:02 PM
but a factory Tikka topped with a Vortex would be capable dor alot less then a Greybull, huh Rad? Lol :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno:Awesome one shot kill!! Yep, Tikka at that! Loved watching that one! :tup:
I fear folks are not going to realize we are being facetious about the off the shelf Tikka. :chuckle:
Yes, we know it's a Greybull.
Unless you're Biggerhammer :chuckle: :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Post by: mountainman on January 29, 2014, 06:45:17 PM
Post by: dscubame on January 29, 2014, 08:26:08 PM
Killed over a dozen bears with th 243. While not my first choice, they were all killed just as dead as with a bigger caliber..
That is a great deal of bears for it not being your 1st choice. :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: mountainman on January 29, 2014, 08:35:45 PM
:)
Post by: pd on January 29, 2014, 09:44:10 PM
What do I expect to happen? I expect I will be buying a 270 Win Finnlight and a fine piece of Walnut. Should only take me a three weeks of carving, checkering and finishing to give her what she wants. All the while she will be reminding me that I knew she was difficult when I married her :)
Gosh, RadSav. If you are going to buy a Finnlight in walnut, spend 3 weeks checkering it, would you do 2? I would be happy with that in any caliber. What a husband!
Post by: pd on January 29, 2014, 09:45:35 PM
All i had for awhile.
:)
And that answer settles the point of this thread.
Post by: RadSav on January 29, 2014, 10:20:23 PM
Post by: RadSav on January 29, 2014, 10:22:57 PM
Gosh, RadSav. If you are going to buy a Finnlight in walnut, spend 3 weeks checkering it, would you do 2? I would be happy with that in any caliber. What a husband!
How much money you got? :chuckle:
Post by: martin1 on February 04, 2014, 06:10:58 PM
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