Post by: Sabotloader on January 16, 2014, 11:11:04 AM
This thread shows/describes my initial attempt with knurling a full bore .500 cal x 350 grain bullet that Lehigh builds...
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/387544-experiment-continues-50-cal-sabotless.html (http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/387544-experiment-continues-50-cal-sabotless.html)
You can see that is was quite awhile ago that I accomplished the first part of the experiment. Yesterday I was finally able to make some time to go shoot the experiment. Between hunting season and coaching time became a crunch - in fact I believe I had more spare time when I was working than I do now that I am retired.
When talking to Grouse about this experiment one of his big concerns was how do you be uniform in the amount of knurling and the resulting diameter change of the bullet. I was really un-concerned until he mentioned it - then I began to really worry about what the results of the different diameters might mean in the terms of accuracy. Yet if Moeller were correct may not much at all.
Well yesterday afternoon became the moment of truth... I took my box of knurled Lehigh's to the farm, set up the bench and the chrono and got ready to work the experiment. So right away things go downhill... The battery in the chrono is dead and the spare battery in the battery compartment is not there because the owner operator of the chrono forgot to replace it that last time he need a battery!!!!
With the failure of that aspect of the shoot I moved the target to 100 yards and began the experiment... The rifle a Knight Ultra-Lite has already been sighted in with a .458x300 gr. Bloodline so I assumed the group location might change a bit but the group should remain consistent through the shoot.
And as Grouse had predicted... not all of the 15 knurled bullets went down with the same amount of pressure - none of them were loose enough that I was worried about the bullet coming off the powder in any instance while I might be hunting. Others took or needed a punch with a short started to get them through the crown. From that description you can see there was a wide variance in diameters, however most were loaded with just thumb pressure and a decent push down with the range rod. Really most felt like I was loading a bullet in a sabot.
During the shoot I did make one adjustment in the scope after the first 3 shots. After that everything pretty much went as planned. I believe the target indicates the variance in diameters really is not having a profound effect on POI from shot-to-shot. Also remember the powder loads are thrown on site into a volume measure... Also, remember that are better shots out than me and I am interested in hunting accuracy not as much as a one-hole group although I would take if I got it. I do very little fooling around with different powder loads to tighten a group. I just want the rifle to shoot what I want to shoot.
Yet in all fairness I know some of you could shoot this same rifle with the same load and tighten things up...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FTarget500x350gr.jpg&hash=24a179f4166c436aa3d00c47f465d86860bcf2f1) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Target500x350gr.jpg.html)
Remember I only had 15 bullets with me so these 6 shots on target were enough for me - I wanted to see thing break so I took out 5 orange elk hearts and placed them in the stubble in the field at 96 to 115 yards. Then I began to systematically shoot elk hearts. after I shoot the first three a friend of mine who has never shot a ML but is a big rifle shooter, asked if he could shoot one just for grins. He did then he did the second one and yet that wasn't enough he could still see pieces through the scope so I shot pieces until we ran out of bullets.
We are going back next week with a working chrono - I really want to know the velocity of the 350 grain GOLD bullets... cuz they sure shoot good!
Post by: oneshot12 on January 16, 2014, 01:37:18 PM
Post by: whacker1 on January 16, 2014, 01:45:23 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on January 16, 2014, 02:05:53 PM
:tup: look likes it would be a good clean kill shot for sure :) cant complain about that grouping at all
Ya... I know the bullet will work one of the members here has already used one on an elk this year... I was really happy with they way it shot... Still want to run them across a chrono... Next week... the guy that went shooting with me wants to go again next week and shoot it some more. Now I have to sit down and knurl some bullets...
Post by: whacker1 on January 16, 2014, 02:24:23 PM
Would this make it legal for Idaho being full bore?
Post by: Sabotloader on January 16, 2014, 02:53:26 PM
What are you getting for velocity / Accuracy out of other bullets in that pipe?
Would this make it legal for Idaho being full bore?
No, it has to be lead over here - I really hope somewhere along the line Idaho will allow full bore, actually I wish we would get as progressive as WA...
This is what I was doing with the 300 grain Lehigh/bloodline
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FBallistic%2520Sheets%2F458-305Ballistics_zps95b3448d.jpg&hash=7196429ed499f47ac2d95da8c199e26c44b6d829) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Ballistic%20Sheets/458-305Ballistics_zps95b3448d.jpg.html)
Post by: whacker1 on January 16, 2014, 02:55:44 PM
I have my system figured out for Washington pretty well, but now feel like if I go to Idaho I have to work my way backward in load development.
Post by: Sabotloader on January 16, 2014, 03:52:42 PM
So what bullet are you selecting for Idaho?
I have my system figured out for Washington pretty well, but now feel like if I go to Idaho I have to work my way backward in load development.
I just use a .503 x 460 MT NEx Bull Shop, but this year I did switch to the .503 x 400 LGP..
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FbullshopBullets-1.jpg&hash=782ab0b7ddc1d97131fabf301d4ace2aa93aeddd) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/bullshopBullets-1.jpg.html)
Post by: whacker1 on January 16, 2014, 05:34:27 PM
So what bullet are you selecting for Idaho?
I have my system figured out for Washington pretty well, but now feel like if I go to Idaho I have to work my way backward in load development.
I just use a .503 x 460 MT NEx Bull Shop, but this year I did switch to the .503 x 400 LGP..
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FbullshopBullets-1.jpg&hash=782ab0b7ddc1d97131fabf301d4ace2aa93aeddd) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/bullshopBullets-1.jpg.html)
Shooting these from the Ultra Light also? How does the muzzle velocity compare? accuracy change at all?
Post by: Sabotloader on January 16, 2014, 08:28:33 PM
So what bullet are you selecting for Idaho?
I have my system figured out for Washington pretty well, but now feel like if I go to Idaho I have to work my way backward in load development.
I just use a .503 x 460 MT NEx Bull Shop, but this year I did switch to the .503 x 400 LGP..
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FbullshopBullets-1.jpg&hash=782ab0b7ddc1d97131fabf301d4ace2aa93aeddd) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/bullshopBullets-1.jpg.html)
Shooting these from the Ultra Light also? How does the muzzle velocity compare? accuracy change at all?
That is why I went to the 400 grain conical instead of the 460. With the 400 and 100 grains of T7 I an push it right along and the velocity is really good accuracy is great...
I do not have the actual velocity of the 40 but when I was shooting the 460 across a chrono with 90 grains I was getting 1500 fps.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FBallistic%2520Sheets%2F90460MTNEx.jpg&hash=bb24503b1986317019174bff6f94f9fabc18ba78) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Ballistic%20Sheets/90460MTNEx.jpg.html)
Post by: Joe on January 16, 2014, 08:37:01 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on January 17, 2014, 07:41:06 AM
I was going to order bullshop bullets, they told me no orders at this time.
There are times during the year that Dan does shut down so he can get his necessary work on the place done. Might ask when he will be back in production? Which bullet might you be after, I have several boxes of the .503x460 I could move since I am pretty sure that I am going to stay with the LGP.
Post by: whacker1 on January 17, 2014, 08:11:51 AM
Post by: Sabotloader on January 17, 2014, 08:32:43 AM
Do you know if they have anything for a .54 pipe?
No not at this time unless you put one of these .500x350 in a 50x54 sabot - then they work great in a 54...
Post by: oneshot12 on January 17, 2014, 09:31:13 AM
Post by: whacker1 on January 21, 2014, 10:15:54 AM
Do you know if they have anything for a .54 pipe?
No not at this time unless you put one of these .500x350 in a 50x54 sabot - then they work great in a 54...
Do you have any bullet suggestions to help me meet Idaho requirements and utilize my .54?