Post by: singleshot12 on January 29, 2014, 02:06:04 PM
Seems the rule should be the same as it is for stocked trout in the lakes. 1st 5 caught with bait,
released or not, count as your daily limit
Post by: snowpack on January 29, 2014, 02:17:52 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on January 29, 2014, 02:22:49 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 29, 2014, 02:32:49 PM
Why limit it to bait? All methods have associated mortality--bait, spoons, spinners and flies.
Pay attention to where your bait ends up in the fish's mouth/throat next time you're using bait. Then watch using artificials. Bait-caught fish are much more prone to swallowing hooks and dieing than artificial lure/fly/etc caught fish.
Post by: boneaddict on January 29, 2014, 02:35:53 PM
Post by: snowpack on January 29, 2014, 02:39:29 PM
I have. I've seen plenty of fish bleed excessively from a spinner or a jig. Yeah, a few more are hooked a little deeper from bait. But overall, all the methods kill a certain percentage of the fish hooked. I guess it will come down to how much mortality the department is willing to accept from each user group.Why limit it to bait? All methods have associated mortality--bait, spoons, spinners and flies.
Pay attention to where your bait ends up in the fish's mouth/throat next time you're using bait. Then watch using artificials. Bait-caught fish are much more prone to swallowing hooks and dieing than artificial lure/fly/etc caught fish.
Post by: 7mmfan on January 29, 2014, 02:43:24 PM
Trout and smolt alike will gobble down bait like no tomorrow, faster than you can pull it away from them, that is how they grow up to be big fish. Yes some fish also are hooked mortally from lures and artificials, its bound to happen, but its a fraction of the number using bait.
This guy should get a citation.
Post by: jackelope on January 29, 2014, 02:45:09 PM
I have. I've seen plenty of fish bleed excessively from a spinner or a jig. Yeah, a few more are hooked a little deeper from bait. But overall, all the methods kill a certain percentage of the fish hooked. I guess it will come down to how much mortality the department is willing to accept from each user group.Why limit it to bait? All methods have associated mortality--bait, spoons, spinners and flies.
Pay attention to where your bait ends up in the fish's mouth/throat next time you're using bait. Then watch using artificials. Bait-caught fish are much more prone to swallowing hooks and dieing than artificial lure/fly/etc caught fish.
10% mortality or so with artificials is a realistic number.
Post by: singleshot12 on January 29, 2014, 02:49:21 PM
Just seems the rule should be the other way around if anything. The way it reads now stocked trout in a lake are more protected.
Post by: snowpack on January 29, 2014, 02:51:47 PM
Can't remember the report, but if hooks are the same I think it was 4:1 bait/artificial for killing. A barbed treble on a spinner can make up serious ground on barbless circle hooks with bait.I have. I've seen plenty of fish bleed excessively from a spinner or a jig. Yeah, a few more are hooked a little deeper from bait. But overall, all the methods kill a certain percentage of the fish hooked. I guess it will come down to how much mortality the department is willing to accept from each user group.Why limit it to bait? All methods have associated mortality--bait, spoons, spinners and flies.
Pay attention to where your bait ends up in the fish's mouth/throat next time you're using bait. Then watch using artificials. Bait-caught fish are much more prone to swallowing hooks and dieing than artificial lure/fly/etc caught fish.
10% mortality or so with artificials is a realistic number.
Post by: singleshot12 on January 29, 2014, 02:52:11 PM
I saw the same report. The worst part is that people are backing this guy up saying there is no difference between a steelhead and trout?! That they only become steelhead once they pass 20". Ever think of, i don't know, baby steelhead? He even went on to say that none of them were clipped so he obviously wasn't catching steelhead. I don't blame people for being dumb, but ignorance really boils my blood especially when they are unwilling to be educated.
Trout and smolt alike will gobble down bait like no tomorrow, faster than you can pull it away from them, that is how they grow up to be big fish. Yes some fish also are hooked mortally from lures and artificials, its bound to happen, but its a fraction of the number using bait.
This guy should get a citation.
:yeah:
Post by: jackelope on January 29, 2014, 03:03:17 PM
Can't remember the report, but if hooks are the same I think it was 4:1 bait/artificial for killing. A barbed treble on a spinner can make up serious ground on barbless circle hooks with bait.I have. I've seen plenty of fish bleed excessively from a spinner or a jig. Yeah, a few more are hooked a little deeper from bait. But overall, all the methods kill a certain percentage of the fish hooked. I guess it will come down to how much mortality the department is willing to accept from each user group.Why limit it to bait? All methods have associated mortality--bait, spoons, spinners and flies.
Pay attention to where your bait ends up in the fish's mouth/throat next time you're using bait. Then watch using artificials. Bait-caught fish are much more prone to swallowing hooks and dieing than artificial lure/fly/etc caught fish.
10% mortality or so with artificials is a realistic number.
That makes sense...I will say when I said 10% I think maybe that # came from flyfishing, which is about the only kind of fishing I've done for trout in the last several years. I've taken my 6 year old fishing for planter trout with worms and/or powerbait a couple times and those trout all die.
Post by: _TONY_ on January 29, 2014, 04:47:56 PM
I've fished with worms enough to know most will swallow the hook. Spinners or spoons are strike lures with almost always jaw hooked.
Spinners and spoons are more likely to brain hook smaller fish...
Post by: Bullkllr on January 29, 2014, 06:04:10 PM
I saw the same report. The worst part is that people are backing this guy up saying there is no difference between a steelhead and trout?! That they only become steelhead once they pass 20". Ever think of, i don't know, baby steelhead? He even went on to say that none of them were clipped so he obviously wasn't catching steelhead. I don't blame people for being dumb, but ignorance really boils my blood especially when they are unwilling to be educated.
Trout and smolt alike will gobble down bait like no tomorrow, faster than you can pull it away from them, that is how they grow up to be big fish. Yes some fish also are hooked mortally from lures and artificials, its bound to happen, but its a fraction of the number using bait.
This guy should get a citation.
:yeah:
Seems a little scary that the guy is not only clueless, he's also proud of the fact that he did it. And the defense statements make me realize that there is even less hope for rebuilding fish runs around Puget Sound.
Post by: singleshot12 on January 29, 2014, 06:29:23 PM
I've fished with worms enough to know most will swallow the hook. Spinners or spoons are strike lures with almost always jaw hooked.
Spinners and spoons are more likely to brain hook smaller fish...
good point! If they hit them as much?
Post by: Bullkllr on January 29, 2014, 06:34:52 PM
True with salmon/steelhead size hooks. Trout size- not so much I don't think.I've fished with worms enough to know most will swallow the hook. Spinners or spoons are strike lures with almost always jaw hooked.
Spinners and spoons are more likely to brain hook smaller fish...
good point! If they hit them as much?
Post by: singleshot12 on January 29, 2014, 06:41:00 PM
I saw the same report. The worst part is that people are backing this guy up saying there is no difference between a steelhead and trout?! That they only become steelhead once they pass 20". Ever think of, i don't know, baby steelhead? He even went on to say that none of them were clipped so he obviously wasn't catching steelhead. I don't blame people for being dumb, but ignorance really boils my blood especially when they are unwilling to be educated.
Trout and smolt alike will gobble down bait like no tomorrow, faster than you can pull it away from them, that is how they grow up to be big fish. Yes some fish also are hooked mortally from lures and artificials, its bound to happen, but its a fraction of the number using bait.
This guy should get a citation.
:yeah:
Seems a little scary that the guy is not only clueless, he's also proud of the fact that he did it. And the defense statements make me realize that there is even less hope for rebuilding fish runs around Puget Sound.
He seems to think there is a major difference between a smolt steelhead and a little rainbow--and that all the ones he caught were just rainbow :rolleyes:
Post by: Jburke on January 29, 2014, 09:49:51 PM
Post by: SuperFull on January 30, 2014, 11:05:17 AM
I thought that ANY fish caught using bait counts towards your daily limit? Once you reach your limit you are done for the day, whether you keep them or not?
Not in a river where there is a minimum size requirement. Only trout that are equal to or greater than the minimum size would count towards the limit. (Page 17 in rule book)
Do I agree with what the guy is doing? No. I feel if you want your trout kick, go to a lake or find a stream or portion of river where there is no possibility of having incidentals with smolts. The rule should be changed to lessen the chance of these cases. He was within the rules set before us so you can't really dog the guy for that. You can dog him on his ethics though and how he doesn't seem to take in any good information that has been thrown his way about juvenile steel.
Sadly you can't teach someone that doesn't seem willing to learn.
Post by: mallard79 on January 30, 2014, 02:35:26 PM
That website has gone WAAAAAY down hill recently. :dunno:
Post by: Bullkllr on January 30, 2014, 04:51:04 PM
Note this exchange:
Reply to OP:
"Not trying to cause a problem but maybe you should check into the life history of our rivers steelhead populations, might be more responsible to get your trout dinner fix from some of the lakes. That being said, sounds llike you had a blast, and I'm not trying to dampen your day, on a legal fishery."
3rd party reply:
"The life history of our rivers steelhead populations?"
OP reply:
I understand your sentiment, have read ip on the history, and I know yhese are not juvenile steal. All of these fish had full afi pose fin if tgey were juve steal there would have been at least some clipped fins.. and I checked.. these are 100% resident river trout that are after freshly laid salmon eggs. I did consider that when fishing. Also if they were juve steal than the (river) must have wa states most productive bative jack steal returns in the pac north west.. I dont buy it.. thry are resident trout.
Post by: singleshot12 on January 30, 2014, 04:57:25 PM
Hopefully after this there will be a rule change on the rivers. I'm not usually one for more rules. But something has to change to prevent this sort of fishing practice in the future.
That website really has gone down hill. even the administrator supports this moron.
Post by: ribka on February 04, 2014, 08:49:00 PM
Yah that. :tup:
Inexcusable
I saw the same report. The worst part is that people are backing this guy up saying there is no difference between a steelhead and trout?! That they only become steelhead once they pass 20". Ever think of, i don't know, baby steelhead? He even went on to say that none of them were clipped so he obviously wasn't catching steelhead. I don't blame people for being dumb, but ignorance really boils my blood especially when they are unwilling to be educated.
Trout and smolt alike will gobble down bait like no tomorrow, faster than you can pull it away from them, that is how they grow up to be big fish. Yes some fish also are hooked mortally from lures and artificials, its bound to happen, but its a fraction of the number using bait.
This guy should get a citation.
Post by: splitshot on February 04, 2014, 09:22:42 PM
Post by: mallard79 on February 04, 2014, 10:37:54 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on February 05, 2014, 08:46:46 AM