Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 08:31:25 AM
You can vote twice and you can change your vote if you wish.
Post by: h20hunter on February 05, 2014, 08:33:00 AM
Post by: PolarBear on February 05, 2014, 08:41:20 AM
Post by: deltaops on February 05, 2014, 08:41:27 AM
So I chose Female and shoot it.
Post by: stromdiddily on February 05, 2014, 08:46:00 AM
Post by: BuckNAze on February 05, 2014, 08:48:12 AM
Post by: Broken Arrow on February 05, 2014, 08:52:21 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on February 05, 2014, 08:58:33 AM
Post by: Rob on February 05, 2014, 09:08:39 AM
Post by: jackmaster on February 05, 2014, 09:14:11 AM
Post by: steen on February 05, 2014, 09:33:32 AM
Post by: Timberstalker on February 05, 2014, 09:39:49 AM
Post by: CamoDup on February 05, 2014, 09:41:06 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on February 05, 2014, 09:48:46 AM
clearly that is a demonic cat... I'd either shoot it or perform an exorcism.
I was going to say the same thing. It looks possessed to me so I would shoot before it's head started spinning and it started spewing pea soup out of its mouth.
Honestly though, I would try my best to identify sex but I am not expert. I would probably end up shooting like most people said.
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Pardon the potentially stupid question...but why do you only take toms?
Actually a good question. Many hound hunters are very selective and choose to only shoot toms. Other hound hunters are not so selective. It's a personal choice. Most states set seasons based on the number of cougar taken and many states have annual harvest quotas so there is little chance of any population being endangered.
My personal thoughts are that it's good to harvest females from a robust cougar population to keep numbers in check. However, if a cougar population is being hunted hard then you may want to save the females. As outfitters we have chosen in recent years to only hunt toms for our hunters as they are more of a trophy for the hunter.
Post by: stromdiddily on February 05, 2014, 09:57:57 AM
Pardon the potentially stupid question...but why do you only take toms?
Actually a good question. Many hound hunters are very selective and choose to only shoot toms. Other hound hunters are not so selective. It's a personal choice. Most states set seasons based on the number of cougar taken so there is little chance of any population being endangered.
My personal thoughts are that it's good to harvest females from a robust cougar population to keep numbers in check. However, if a cougar population is being hunted hard then you may want to save the females. As outfitters we have chosen in recent years to only hunt toms for our hunters as they are more of a trophy for the hunter.
Awesome, thanks for the reply :tup:
Post by: boneaddict on February 05, 2014, 10:05:22 AM
Back in the day I think they didn't shoot the females as they are the ones that had babies. The more cats there were the more sport they had with pursuit. That is counter productive with a majority of folks, unless they also hounded, as they kill and eat so much of our normal game. Basically in direct competition with.
Post by: Curly on February 05, 2014, 10:06:30 AM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on February 05, 2014, 10:46:52 AM
Pardon the potentially stupid question...but why do you only take toms?
Actually a good question. Many hound hunters are very selective and choose to only shoot toms. Other hound hunters are not so selective. It's a personal choice. Most states set seasons based on the number of cougar taken and many states have annual harvest quotas so there is little chance of any population being endangered.
My personal thoughts are that it's good to harvest females from a robust cougar population to keep numbers in check. However, if a cougar population is being hunted hard then you may want to save the females. As outfitters we have chosen in recent years to only hunt toms for our hunters as they are more of a trophy for the hunter.
I was going to ask the same question. After seeing your answer, I have to ask......
You're more interested in trophies than taking out more deer and elk killers? If you got a big clientele of wolf hunters added to your other hunts, would you only hunt trophy alpha male wolves then? Since you don't seem to be all that interested in taking female cougars which could lead to a drop in cougar populations, do the wolves get the blame for the deer and elk that the artificially high number of cats take? Think of all the extra deer and elk those cats take that could be translated into deer and elk hunters for Idaho and all the money that comes with them. Surely more hunters are interested in taking deer and elk than a cougar. Not many hunters have much use for killing more than one cougar except as a way to reduce their presence.
I'm so confuddled.
Post by: Old Man Yager on February 05, 2014, 10:53:00 AM
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 11:19:09 AM
Pardon the potentially stupid question...but why do you only take toms?
Actually a good question. Many hound hunters are very selective and choose to only shoot toms. Other hound hunters are not so selective. It's a personal choice. Most states set seasons based on the number of cougar taken and many states have annual harvest quotas so there is little chance of any population being endangered.
My personal thoughts are that it's good to harvest females from a robust cougar population to keep numbers in check. However, if a cougar population is being hunted hard then you may want to save the females. As outfitters we have chosen in recent years to only hunt toms for our hunters as they are more of a trophy for the hunter.
I was going to ask the same question. After seeing your answer, I have to ask......
You're more interested in trophies than taking out more deer and elk killers? If you got a big clientele of wolf hunters added to your other hunts, would you only hunt trophy alpha male wolves then? Since you don't seem to be all that interested in taking female cougars which could lead to a drop in cougar populations, do the wolves get the blame for the deer and elk that the artificially high number of cats take? Think of all the extra deer and elk those cats take that could be translated into deer and elk hunters for Idaho and all the money that comes with them. Surely more hunters are interested in taking deer and elk than a cougar. Not many hunters have much use for killing more than one cougar except as a way to reduce their presence.
I'm so confuddled.
Nice try blacktail!
When we hunted cats in Washington we hunted whatever the hunter wanted, the population needed and still needs thinning. I've helped hunters kill hundreds of cougars of both sexes over the last 37 years.
During my first 10 years in Idaho we had what seemed to be over abundant cougar numbers, again I allowed hunters to shoot what they wanted, even though most would prefer taking a tom.
During the last several years Idaho has hunted cats and bear pretty hard to compensate for wolf impacts and has successfully reduced the populations to a more acceptable levels in most areas. Currently it does not seem that shooting females is needed much and by switching to tom only hunts I seem to be attracting more cougar hunting interest. But if the cougar population in my area seems to get too robust I would advocate taking more females. Currently there is a quota of 22 females in my area which gets filled most years by other hunters.
I am licensed to guide for wolves and think every wolf seen should be shot. When IDFG gets the number under 200 then we need to reduce the harvest so that we do not endanger relisting. Otherwise I would say keep on shooting, we don't need any wolves, hunters can manage big game herds, wolves are just something the wolf lovers think they need in the lower 48. Wolves should certainly at least be confined to the wilderness areas, such as how WY is managing wolves.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on February 05, 2014, 11:22:45 AM
I don't advocate killing females unless there is some compelling reason to do so.
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 12:37:07 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 05, 2014, 01:00:42 PM
male - pass
Now, back in WA....that sucker would be dead.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on February 05, 2014, 01:01:22 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 05, 2014, 01:06:02 PM
I'm guessing it's a decent young male, but not a trophy class Tom where I'd pay a fist full of cash to take it.
If I were in WA and found that sucker up in a tree I'd shoot it then figure out it's gender when it's on the ground :chuckle:
Post by: snowpack on February 05, 2014, 01:08:49 PM
Post by: idaho guy on February 05, 2014, 01:37:49 PM
Post by: idaho guy on February 05, 2014, 01:40:15 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 02:57:57 PM
and also bearpaw are you going to give everyone the right answer
yes I eventually will... :tup:
Post by: Atroxus on February 05, 2014, 03:23:56 PM
Post by: Machias on February 05, 2014, 05:38:03 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 05:45:55 PM
Females
Generally the distance between tracks on one side of the animal will be under 40 inches and usually when a female walks her hind foot lands exactly in the front footprint. Additionally in shallow snow depths you will see a clean foot prints with no dragging of the toes between the tracks in the snow.
Males
Footprints usually measure 40 inches or more between prints on one side of the animal. Toe and foot pads are much larger than female pads and the bigger the tom generally the more pronounced he double steps, because toms are longer bodied when they walk the rear foot doesn't quite reach to the front foot print and also the larger the tom generally the more they drag their toes when they walk.
By looking at all these factors it's pretty easy to guess the sex and within 10 pounds or so of the weight of a cat just by looking at the tracks.
The female tracks in the first photo below I estimated to weigh 90ish pounds, notice the rear foot is landing exactly on top of the front foot print. The center photo are male tracks made by about a 150ish pound tom, note that his rear foot prints aren't even touching the front foot prints. The bottom photo is a young tom in deeper snow, as you can see it's tougher to accurately judge tracks in deeper snow.
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 06:08:32 PM
I was busy hunting in Idaho and there was a good snow in Colville so the wife and one of my hunting partners went hunting. They cut some fresh lion tracks that they thought were large female tracks, the dogs were released and the chase was on. It didn't take long and the cat treed, they made their way in and sure enough it looked like they had a female treed. My wife shot the cat without being able to see the spot due to the way the cat was sitting, big mistake, it was a white bellied young tom, so we still don't have a mounted female.
(another factor I failed to mention is that females generally have whiter belly fur)
But as Idaho Guy said, the black spot is the only reliable way of knowing the sex of a cougar.
Washington Cougar Numbers
Today cats are so undermanaged in Washington that I am glad to hear when a boot hunter kills a female. When lion numbers are high, killing females does not harm anything, in fact I think it's probably a good thing to reduce the reproduction.
Post by: snowpack on February 05, 2014, 06:24:38 PM
Post by: Jingles on February 05, 2014, 07:02:03 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on February 05, 2014, 07:29:16 PM
Would I kill it? Well I would like a big cat rug. So if big enough, it is rug. Other than that I have no interest in killing a cougar. Could careless if a hunter chooses to shoot a cat or not. You won't be hurting the population nor will you be saving any deer or elk.
Post by: PolarBear on February 05, 2014, 10:50:16 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on February 05, 2014, 11:00:55 PM
Funny how many think they would be saving a deer or elk if they killed it. Very sad for us hunters................
Would I kill it? Well I would like a big cat rug. So if big enough, it is rug. Other than that I have no interest in killing a cougar. Could careless if a hunter chooses to shoot a cat or not. You won't be hurting the population nor will you be saving any deer or elk.
:o
Post by: Chukar on February 05, 2014, 11:08:53 PM
Sometimes it is really tough to tell and you have to get the cat moving to get a look. I do not trust the folks that think they can judge by the head alone...
Absolutely no absolutes.
That being said small(ish) muzzle broad head. Looks young(ish) male.
Take him.
Post by: KFhunter on February 06, 2014, 12:35:17 PM
Some good education going on in here and I agree with you in WA we need to kill more predators, including breeders.
Post by: JLS on February 06, 2014, 12:57:34 PM
Funny how many think they would be saving a deer or elk if they killed it. Very sad for us hunters................
Would I kill it? Well I would like a big cat rug. So if big enough, it is rug. Other than that I have no interest in killing a cougar. Could careless if a hunter chooses to shoot a cat or not. You won't be hurting the population nor will you be saving any deer or elk.
Careful, you might end up on Blasphemy Island with me and Idahohuntr. :)
Post by: idaho guy on February 06, 2014, 02:38:11 PM
:
Washington Cougar Numbers
Today cats are so undermanaged in Washington that I am glad to hear when a boot hunter kills a female. When lion numbers are high, killing females does not harm anything, in fact I think it's probably a good thing to reduce the reproduction.
:yeah: if I could run dogs in washington i wouldnt have any problems taking females either. Unfortunately I dont live in world of overpopulated cats. Or maybe i am lucky that my state actually manages predators!
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 06, 2014, 02:44:08 PM
Post by: Bordercop on February 07, 2014, 11:37:02 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MtnMuley on February 07, 2014, 12:59:43 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 08, 2014, 09:57:29 PM
If this cat was in Washington where there is very little cougar management and more cougars need to be shot then we would have shot it if someone in the hunting party wanted it. Because there is no hound hunting season in Washington, cougar are over populated in many areas.
Post by: grundy53 on February 09, 2014, 06:08:28 AM
To me it is just another killer of big game, no different than a wolf or coyote and gender does not matter! Shoot it!:yeah:
sent from my typewriter
Post by: grundy53 on February 09, 2014, 06:09:43 AM
Funny how many think they would be saving a deer or elk if they killed it. Very sad for us hunters................What do they eat then? Are they vegan?
Would I kill it? Well I would like a big cat rug. So if big enough, it is rug. Other than that I have no interest in killing a cougar. Could careless if a hunter chooses to shoot a cat or not. You won't be hurting the population nor will you be saving any deer or elk.
sent from my typewriter
Post by: bearpaw on February 13, 2014, 08:44:12 AM
Funny how many think they would be saving a deer or elk if they killed it. Very sad for us hunters................What do they eat then? Are they vegan?
Would I kill it? Well I would like a big cat rug. So if big enough, it is rug. Other than that I have no interest in killing a cougar. Could careless if a hunter chooses to shoot a cat or not. You won't be hurting the population nor will you be saving any deer or elk.
sent from my typewriter
maybe all they eat is grasshoppers and mice....
all the deer kills and elk kills I find are just a figment of my imagination :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 13, 2014, 08:55:38 AM
Funny how many think they would be saving a deer or elk if they killed it. Very sad for us hunters................
Would I kill it? Well I would like a big cat rug. So if big enough, it is rug. Other than that I have no interest in killing a cougar. Could careless if a hunter chooses to shoot a cat or not. You won't be hurting the population nor will you be saving any deer or elk.
Is it possible that what you're saying is that cougars are at full carrying capacity and killing one isn't going to make a dent in that? I'd like to better understand your point. :dunno: