Post by: northwesthunter84 on February 09, 2014, 03:09:42 PM
Sorry couldn't get this to link. I found this today (I know its Oregon) and it just blew my mind. If you listen to the game warden 30% of the people pulling the trigger don't have a tag. And people wonder why hunters get a bad rap. Also I would be interested to see if there would be similar results in Washington. It makes me sad for those of us that try to do it right.
Post by: notellumcreek on February 09, 2014, 03:24:05 PM
Post by: buglebuster on February 09, 2014, 03:47:46 PM
Post by: notellumcreek on February 09, 2014, 03:55:18 PM
Disclamer: I'm not saying any poaching/illegal activity is ok! But.... how can they use this to catch poachers? It is a FAKE deer! How can that stand in court if the guy charged with poaching says he knew it was fake and shot it for the hell of it or something along those lines? If he did nothing else illegal I dont see how the charge could stick.. I may sound stupid but thats how II've always thought about these fake stakeouts :dunno:
You have a point. I am sure they are thinking at least they can get people with discharging a firearm too close to a maintained road. :dunno:
Doesn't look like the video above is on a maintained road but it was showing up too blurry for me to really notice.
Post by: jeffro on February 09, 2014, 04:07:56 PM
Disclamer: I'm not saying any poaching/illegal activity is ok! But.... how can they use this to catch poachers? It is a FAKE deer! How can that stand in court if the guy charged with poaching says he knew it was fake and shot it for the hell of it or something along those lines? If he did nothing else illegal I don't see how the charge could stick.. I may sound stupid but that's how I've always thought about these fake stakeouts :dunno:If you watched the vid,
they were ticketing them for discharging their firearm from the vehicle or from the maintained roadway,
failing to wear hunters orange,
and hunting without proper license's and/ or tags.
All very provable with the captured video.
I'm surprised that there where no DUI's/ warrant arrests to boot. Then again, this vid was only one day of surveillance.
Post by: ICEMAN on February 09, 2014, 04:19:50 PM
Disclamer: I'm not saying any poaching/illegal activity is ok! But.... how can they use this to catch poachers? It is a FAKE deer! How can that stand in court if the guy charged with poaching says he knew it was fake and shot it for the hell of it or something along those lines? If he did nothing else illegal I dont see how the charge could stick.. I may sound stupid but thats how II've always thought about these fake stakeouts :dunno:
You have a point. I am sure they are thinking at least they can get people with discharging a firearm too close to a maintained road. :dunno:
Doesn't look like the video above is on a maintained road but it was showing up too blurry for me to really notice.
It all goes to the intent of the shooter. Since there are not known fake deer all over the landscape, I am sure that it is easier to prove that the intent was to shoot a live deer or elk.
How could anyone argue that they thought they were shooting a fake deer? Your suggestion that they can use this as a defense, is a bit of a reach in my opinion. With this mentality, you could basically justify anyone doing anything. I feel that your actions express your intent. You purposely shot a deer.
Post by: trophyhunt on February 09, 2014, 04:21:01 PM
Post by: TheHunt on February 09, 2014, 07:10:41 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 09, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
Post by: hunterrcc on February 09, 2014, 10:24:05 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 09, 2014, 10:49:15 PM
I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp, not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.
Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other, so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter, so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy. I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.
Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.
Post by: hunterrcc on February 09, 2014, 10:55:46 PM
The 30% number might be a bit skewed in that they know where to put those decoys so it'll get shot the most.
I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp, not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.
Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other, so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter, so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy. I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.
Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.
Post by: boneaddict on February 10, 2014, 08:44:00 AM
Post by: Dhoey07 on February 10, 2014, 09:02:03 AM
The 30% number might be a bit skewed in that they know where to put those decoys so it'll get shot the most.
I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp, not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.
Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other, so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter, so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy. I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.
Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.
They said that 30% of people that pulled the trigger got citations. That number would go wayyy down when you couint the people that stopped and looked or saw the decoys and kept driving. That also means that 70% of shooters didn't get a ticket.
Post by: MIKEXRAY on February 10, 2014, 09:02:30 AM
Post by: asl20bball on February 10, 2014, 12:01:03 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 10, 2014, 12:14:30 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
Quote
In WA, in a department rife with politics and BS game management based on public opinion and pressure from the greenies, this is one section that's doing their job well - enforcement.
:o. Really?
I take it you haven't read "Operation Cody?"
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 10, 2014, 12:45:10 PM
QuoteIn WA, in a department rife with politics and BS game management based on public opinion and pressure from the greenies, this is one section that's doing their job well - enforcement.
:o. Really?
I take it you haven't read "Operation Cody?"
I have read it and you're trying to be argumentative - your favorite pastime. I'm talking about the LEs in the field not enforcement hierarchy.
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2014, 12:50:10 PM
Montana (where "Wardens" is filmed) has even more strict laws about shooting from roads, so they really can bust people for not getting all the way outside the road right of way. One guy did a pretty good job of getting out of the truck and walking all the way to the fenceline and then shooting at the cow by resting on the fence. They didn't ticket him, but told him they could because technically he wasn't supposed to be shooting from the road side of the fence.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 10, 2014, 12:54:46 PM
I just watched the show "Wardens" the other day where they did the sting operation deal with a cow elk with a motorized head. They got a lot of guys for shooting out of the vehicle, or shooting while leaning against the vehicle and no orange. Even some guys with no tag. It was a good episode (they all are really).
Montana (where "Wardens" is filmed) has even more strict laws about shooting from roads, so they really can bust people for not getting all the way outside the road right of way. One guy did a pretty good job of getting out of the truck and walking all the way to the fenceline and then shooting at the cow by resting on the fence. They didn't ticket him, but told him they could because technically he wasn't supposed to be shooting from the road side of the fence.
I'm impressed by their very professional but easy going nature when they deal with people. The attitude there seems much more "customer service" oriented than a lot of places, like WA and OR. My interactions here have all been very professional, but laid back or friendly are not adjectives I'd use.
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2014, 12:59:10 PM
I hope our LE are watching that show and learn from them. They seem like really likeable wardens. (I have encountered a couple wardens in this state that were good too, but its been 20 or more years now).
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 10, 2014, 01:03:32 PM
Post by: REHJWA on February 10, 2014, 01:05:29 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 10, 2014, 01:08:39 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 10, 2014, 01:10:18 PM
"this just bugs the heck out of legal hunters" THANK YOU!
It's nice to hear the distinction from media for once :tup: :tup:
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 10, 2014, 01:53:43 PM
Post by: Eli346 on February 10, 2014, 05:13:11 PM
Post by: cryder on February 13, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
Post by: GregE on February 15, 2014, 09:03:25 PM
I agree I hate that fact that they lump all the shooters as hunters in most stories.The 30% number might be a bit skewed in that they know where to put those decoys so it'll get shot the most.
I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp, not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.
Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other, so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter, so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy. I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.
Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.
Well stated!! :yeah:
Post by: 101521 on February 17, 2014, 09:22:50 PM
Uh-huh. :rolleyes:
Agree with you Piano...interesting video. I too have only had positive interactions with GW's
Post by: heavy hauler on February 24, 2014, 06:57:41 PM
Post by: rsarkks on February 28, 2014, 08:41:52 AM
Post by: PolarBear on February 28, 2014, 09:01:24 AM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on March 05, 2014, 09:27:22 AM