Post by: pianoman9701 on February 20, 2014, 01:43:31 PM
PMan
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 01:47:25 PM
There's another thread where one of the posters is insinuating that silence from the timber community regarding wolves indicates an acceptance of wolves according to the present wolf plan. What say you? Are you glad that we have wolves now because they'll eat the elk and deer which ruin your crop? Or, do you think that they're going to be more trouble than benefit to us? Thanks,
PMan
Loggers are not timber company executives. As a corporation, name one logging company that has come out against wolves or saying it will affect their bottom line.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 20, 2014, 01:54:46 PM
Post by: elkboy on February 20, 2014, 01:55:39 PM
Post by: UBA on February 20, 2014, 01:58:02 PM
Timber company executives= don't care unless it effects income. However I think they should try to get ahead of this issue. They already have enough ESA listed species to be concerned about.
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 01:58:33 PM
Really Aspen?I knew you'd have a reason to call this bogus. God, you're predictable. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Because it is. Name one logging company that has come out and said they are against wolves. I don't mean loggers, I mean the corporation. When has Weyerhaeuser ever once said they were against wolves?
Everyone has a price, someone will log the land.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 20, 2014, 01:59:55 PM
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 02:00:18 PM
Loggers= hate!
Timber company executives= don't care unless it effects income. However I think they should try to get ahead of this issue. They already have enough ESA listed species to be concerned about.
I think that's why logging execs have an agnostic view on wolves. They give them a reason to shut down hunting on their lands and can parade that in front of greenies.
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 02:01:44 PM
Or you could just sit back and wait fro people from the timber industry to chime in. But you won't do that because it doesn't forward your goals.
Sorry, reality is not kind to you here.
Post by: fair-chase on February 20, 2014, 02:02:21 PM
Loggers are not timber company executives. As a corporation, name one logging company that has come out against wolves or saying it will affect their bottom line.
Many timber companies lease out grazing rights to their properties. If wolf predation gets to a point where it's not economically viable for ranchers to graze on these leases, then yes, it will effect timber companies bottom line.
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 02:05:06 PM
Loggers are not timber company executives. As a corporation, name one logging company that has come out against wolves or saying it will affect their bottom line.
Many timber companies lease out grazing rights to their properties. If wolf predation gets to a point where it's not economically viable for ranchers to graze on these leases, then yes, it will effect timber companies bottom line.
They don't seem terrifically worried about it.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 20, 2014, 02:07:15 PM
Or you could just sit back and wait fro people from the timber industry to chime in. But you won't do that because it doesn't forward your goals.
Sorry, reality is not kind to you here.
We all know where YOU stand. Please stop and let's see what others have to say.
Post by: KFhunter on February 20, 2014, 02:07:18 PM
I've never met a logger who didn't hunt, and I've met a ton of them. All those loggers got keys and access and typically hunt near their operations, lot of guys will just sit and wait for a bear or something to come in while everyone else locks up and goes home. I know you've never been on a logging operation aspen or you wouldn't pursue this avenue of thought.
Animals love all the fresh downed trees and bears are attracted to a landing site like moths to a flame!
the cattle and cooperate connection was already made, I'll just add a +1 to that.
Post by: fair-chase on February 20, 2014, 02:14:02 PM
Loggers are not timber company executives. As a corporation, name one logging company that has come out against wolves or saying it will affect their bottom line.
Many timber companies lease out grazing rights to their properties. If wolf predation gets to a point where it's not economically viable for ranchers to graze on these leases, then yes, it will effect timber companies bottom line.
They don't seem terrifically worried about it.
True. I don't really expect them to be overly vocal about it. That's a pretty small percentage of overall gross. Not only that, but they need to deal with government oversight regularly. Why would they stir the pot and put themselves in a position to be targeted by the EPA, IRS, or other obscure oversight committee.
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 02:14:40 PM
Or you could just sit back and wait fro people from the timber industry to chime in. But you won't do that because it doesn't forward your goals.
Sorry, reality is not kind to you here.
We all know where YOU stand. Please stop and let's see what others have to say.
If it makes you feel better. But I'm right and you darn well know it. Those companies could give two toots less about what people think. If wolves are even on their radar it's in an anti ungulate kind of way.
Post by: snowpack on February 20, 2014, 02:28:01 PM
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 02:32:21 PM
Not all logging companies are huge multinational corporations. I know of more than a few people that own 70 or 90 or 200 or more acres that are used for timber harvest. Just take a look at the county assessor parcel maps and you'll see how fragmented the land ownership is in some areas--but if you walk through the area, it will come off as one giant tree farm (and those large consolidated farms do exist in some areas). The folks I know that own these smaller parcels usually also hunt or someone in the family does, and so far I haven't heard any say they want wolves, most like having deer/elk. The animal they don't like is bear, especially if they have any firs.
I'll buy that.
I just look at the St. Helens tree farm or any number of corporate timber lands and I don't see those companies ever saying anything one way or another on the issue. When I was a kid in elementary school one of the timber companies gave the classes a tour and everyone planted trees. I still remember putting nets over the saplings to keep the deer from nibbling on them.
Post by: jackmaster on February 20, 2014, 02:32:48 PM
This is an asinine topic.:yeah: :yeah:
I've never met a logger who didn't hunt, and I've met a ton of them. All those loggers got keys and access and typically hunt near their operations, lot of guys will just sit and wait for a bear or something to come in while everyone else locks up and goes home. I know you've never been on a logging operation aspen or you wouldn't pursue this avenue of thought.
Animals love all the fresh downed trees and bears are attracted to a landing site like moths to a flame!
the cattle and cooperate connection was already made, I'll just add a +1 to that.
Post by: turkeyfeather on February 20, 2014, 02:33:46 PM
This is an asinine topic.Got that right. With that being said I would guess that large companies probably couldn't care less. Small operations and the loggers themselves I am sure see no good of it.
Post by: bearpaw on February 20, 2014, 02:36:36 PM
Or you could just sit back and wait fro people from the timber industry to chime in. But you won't do that because it doesn't forward your goals.
Sorry, reality is not kind to you here.
We all know where YOU stand. Please stop and let's see what others have to say.
If it makes you feel better. But I'm right and you darn well know it. Those companies could give two toots less about what people think. If wolves are even on their radar it's in an anti ungulate kind of way.
I see the way it is....
Not all logging companies are huge multinational corporations. I know of more than a few people that own 70 or 90 or 200 or more acres that are used for timber harvest. Just take a look at the county assessor parcel maps and you'll see how fragmented the land ownership is in some areas--but if you walk through the area, it will come off as one giant tree farm (and those large consolidated farms do exist in some areas). The folks I know that own these smaller parcels usually also hunt or someone in the family does, and so far I haven't heard any say they want wolves, most like having deer/elk. The animal they don't like is bear, especially if they have any firs.
You are wasting your time, Aspen doesn't realize there is more land east of the cascade summit than west of the cascades. :twocents:
Post by: buckfvr on February 20, 2014, 02:40:28 PM
Not all logging companies are huge multinational corporations. I know of more than a few people that own 70 or 90 or 200 or more acres that are used for timber harvest. Just take a look at the county assessor parcel maps and you'll see how fragmented the land ownership is in some areas--but if you walk through the area, it will come off as one giant tree farm (and those large consolidated farms do exist in some areas). The folks I know that own these smaller parcels usually also hunt or someone in the family does, and so far I haven't heard any say they want wolves, most like having deer/elk. The animal they don't like is bear, especially if they have any firs.
I'll buy that.
I just look at the St. Helens tree farm or any number of corporate timber lands and I don't see those companies ever saying anything one way or another on the issue. When I was a kid in elementary school one of the timber companies gave the classes a tour and everyone planted trees. I still remember putting nets over the saplings to keep the deer from nibbling on them.
SO thats the source of your ungulate nightmares..............
Post by: villageidiot on February 20, 2014, 02:41:41 PM
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 02:46:02 PM
Not all logging companies are huge multinational corporations. I know of more than a few people that own 70 or 90 or 200 or more acres that are used for timber harvest. Just take a look at the county assessor parcel maps and you'll see how fragmented the land ownership is in some areas--but if you walk through the area, it will come off as one giant tree farm (and those large consolidated farms do exist in some areas). The folks I know that own these smaller parcels usually also hunt or someone in the family does, and so far I haven't heard any say they want wolves, most like having deer/elk. The animal they don't like is bear, especially if they have any firs.
I'll buy that.
I just look at the St. Helens tree farm or any number of corporate timber lands and I don't see those companies ever saying anything one way or another on the issue. When I was a kid in elementary school one of the timber companies gave the classes a tour and everyone planted trees. I still remember putting nets over the saplings to keep the deer from nibbling on them.
SO thats the source of your ungulate nightmares..............
No, but the nets didn't work very well which is why they've always let hunters in to hunt.
Again, if you don't think they see the wolf as a possible win/win you're ignoring the facts. Greenies like wolves and hate hunters. It's pure marketing gold from a corporate perspective. They kill two birds with one stone.
Post by: bearpaw on February 20, 2014, 02:47:49 PM
Don't worry, the big timber absolutely hates wolves, spotted owls, marbled murreletts, eagles, hawks, spotted leopard frogs, owls and a hundred other species that limit their ability to log their land or anybodys land. If they come out publicly and made a statement to that effect it would be political suicide. The whole purpose of endangered species is to stop resource uses and anybody that actually uses or harvests these resources despises all these species because of the enormous loss it brings to their occupation. Some of these companies have developed what they call "green wood", that was harvested in an environmentally friendly manner, not affecting any endangered species or harming any land it was harvested on. This was just a sales gimmic of course but it increased sales so do you think they would dare come out publicly and criticize any of these precious protected critters? No Way!
:yeah: x 2
Post by: turkeyfeather on February 20, 2014, 02:48:39 PM
Post by: AspenBud on February 20, 2014, 02:49:45 PM
The only thing green big timber cares about is money.
:yeah: x10
Post by: bobcat on February 20, 2014, 03:19:31 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on February 20, 2014, 03:52:29 PM