Post by: bigtex on March 04, 2014, 05:56:29 PM
Written by FEDagent on 20 February 2014. Posted in General News
A fifteen (15) percent budget cut to the Forest Service’s Law Enforcement and Investigations Division (LEI) has resulted in mandatory “office days” for officers and agents, mileage and shift limits, and a nationwide hiring freeze as managers try to avoid layoffs.
The cuts to the Forest Service LEI budget are cause for concern by the group Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER), who assert “the reason for the shortfall appears to be bureaucratic neglect rather than a hostile Congress.”
PEER said the Forest Service requested, and received, a lower funding level for LEI accounts, while the agency overall received increased funding. Additionally, PEER says that LEI’s budget situation is made worse because fire transfer dollars were not reinstated after a busy and expensive fire season last year, and that costs of employee raises had to be absorbed in the smaller budget allowance.
“By asking Congress for less money, it appears that the Forest Service deliberately short-sheeted its own law enforcement program,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “Sudden cuts of this magnitude will unquestionably compromise the effectiveness of Forest Service law enforcement.”
http://www.fedagent.com/16-general-news/1123-forest-service-law-enforcement-hindered-by-inadequate-budget-group-says (http://www.fedagent.com/16-general-news/1123-forest-service-law-enforcement-hindered-by-inadequate-budget-group-says)
Post by: Bean Counter on March 04, 2014, 06:10:09 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 04, 2014, 06:26:18 PM
Office duty? Did they lay off their support folks, or is this just a reduction in LEAP?
Nobody in the USFS LE program has been laid off, they've just left positions vacant. Natural resource law enforcement (WDFW, BLM, DNR, Forest Service, etc) do more admin work then your local deputies or PD officers because they don't have secretaries working for them in every office like a PD or SO does. By requiring office duty they are requiring officers to work a normal business schedule for that day, so no night pay is paid. The LEOs get AUO, SAs get LEAP.
There are several USFS LEO vacancies in WA. One of them is in the busiest USFS district in WA which also happens to be one of the busiest in the country. A recently vacated position is also near the top in terms of being one of the busiest in WA.
Post by: Bean Counter on March 04, 2014, 06:43:29 PM
yeah there's some dude dumping motor oil in the lake
Ok I'll send the guys when they're done making photocopies.
...huh?
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 04, 2014, 08:18:25 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 04, 2014, 08:22:10 PM
Most county sheriff's in this state that have USFS lands receive funding from the USFS to have sheriff deputies patrol USFS lands, as an example about 25% of the Skamania County Sheriff's Office is funded by the USFS. So you can imagine those contracting funds from the USFS to Sheriff's will decrease as well.
So not only will there be less USFS LE personnel in the woods, there will be less Sheriff's Deputies as well.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 04, 2014, 08:38:33 PM
This doesn't just effect Forest Service LE personnel, but also county sheriff's.
Most county sheriff's in this state that have USFS lands receive funding from the USFS to have sheriff deputies patrol USFS lands, as an example about 25% of the Skamania County Sheriff's Office is funded by the USFS. So you can imagine those contracting funds from the USFS to Sheriff's will decrease as well.
So not only will there be less USFS LE personnel in the woods, there will be less Sheriff's Deputies as well.
Well I would venture to guess that USFS LE would be a better place for federal tax dollars to go than This damn thing here!!
Post by: bigtex on March 06, 2014, 04:12:48 PM
Diverting money and/or priority from enforcement to bureaucrats????? Operation Cody come to mind?It's just odd the agency cut their LE budget, even though the agency overall had a budget increase. If the agency decreased their budget, then ok it would make sense to decrease their LE budget as well. I saw a report that stated USFS LE was operating with one-third of their positions that they had in the 1990s, and I know there are more open positions now then there were when that report came out.
It would be interesting to just who in the USFS signed off and recommended this. The top brass of USFS LE has been in some very controversial issues the past few years. One example is that all USFS LE hiring is now done through DC HR, a local Patrol Captain may not even interview the officer that will be working for him, but just 4 years ago the Captains were doing all the hiring and interviewing process. The USFS LE program has gone away from hiring the best for the position, to a diversity hiring mandate. The USFS would rather hire a minority with no LE experience just so they can meet their diversity mandate, then hire a experienced LEO. Another hot issue was increasing the pay for regional Special Agent in Charges (SAC) which are basically the director of the regional LE programs.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 06, 2014, 04:21:43 PM
Messed up from the TOP down for the sake of PC?? Seems the problem just might start above anyone actually IN the agency?? :twocents:
Post by: Bean Counter on March 06, 2014, 07:01:16 PM
It would be interesting to just who in the USFS signed off and recommended this. The top brass of USFS LE has been in some very controversial issues the past few years. One example is that all USFS LE hiring is now done through DC HR, a local Patrol Captain may not even interview the officer that will be working for him, but just 4 years ago the Captains were doing all the hiring and interviewing process.Sounds like a lot of nepotism under the old system.
Quote
The USFS LE program has gone away from hiring the best for the position, to a diversity hiring mandate. The USFS would rather hire a minority with no LE experience just so they can meet their diversity mandate, then hire a experienced LEO.
Good thing we don't do that in elections... :rolleyes:
Quote
Another hot issue was increasing the pay for regional Special Agent in Charges (SAC) which are basically the director of the regional LE programs.
Oh good, the boss got a raise while the "patrol" officers are put behind a desk. :llam:
Post by: washelkhunter on March 06, 2014, 07:05:01 PM
This doesn't just effect Forest Service LE personnel, but also county sheriff's.
Most county sheriff's in this state that have USFS lands receive funding from the USFS to have sheriff deputies patrol USFS lands, as an example about 25% of the Skamania County Sheriff's Office is funded by the USFS. So you can imagine those contracting funds from the USFS to Sheriff's will decrease as well.
So not only will there be less USFS LE personnel in the woods, there will be less Sheriff's Deputies as well.
Well I would venture to guess that USFS LE would be a better place for federal tax dollars to go than This damn thing here!!
Yeah. I gotta say these smiling joes look a lot like a bunch of paramilitary death squad thugs to me. Is this what we want for our local law enforcement? Honestly; look at those guys. Why don't they just paint the ole SS on the side of that MRAP there.
Post by: timberfaller on March 09, 2014, 03:09:13 PM
When first introduced to us in the Methow district, it would be "paid" for from the sales of "wood premits" aka Firewood!! "if not enough sales of permits, the position would be eliminated" AND you thought government LYING to its citizens was something new!!
All "Problems" have a beginning, that is where you have to start to find a solution.
Like a snowball rolling down hill, from there!
Geee, I wonder what happened to the USFS "revenue" oh ya, its been going up in smoke of decades now instead of being turned into 2x4's !!!
Post by: bigtex on March 09, 2014, 03:18:48 PM
You all have to remember, USFS LEO's was a "created" position.Times have also changed for USFS LE. Up until around 2000 USFS LEOs worked for the Ranger District and were funded out of the Ranger District. A federal study found they should be in an actual law enforcement chain of command, and that is what they are now.
When first introduced to us in the Methow district, it would be "paid" for from the sales of "wood premits" aka Firewood!! "if not enough sales of permits, the position would be eliminated" AND you thought government LYING to its citizens was something new!!
All "Problems" have a beginning, that is where you have to start to find a solution.
Like a snowball rolling down hill, from there!
Geee, I wonder what happened to the USFS "revenue" oh ya, its been going up in smoke of decades now instead of being turned into 2x4's !!!
USFS Officers work for DC they don't work for the Ranger District and are basically the only USFS personnel that don't report to the Ranger District. Officers report to a Captain who reports to a Commander, then an Assistant SAC and then the Special Agent in Charge who then reports to DC.
So timberfaller, your statement had to do when USFS LE actually worked for the Ranger District and not DC.
Post by: buckfvr on March 09, 2014, 03:53:21 PM
Hindered by inadequate budget means they are getting ready to make us pay.......more/again.
This state and this country has lost their grip on reality............All forms of LE have become revenue gatherers by way of citation. How can anyone say any different when quotas exist ?????? The situation is just shy of government guerrillas harassing the public. :twocents:
Post by: bigtex on March 09, 2014, 04:10:47 PM
That profound example of current chain of command displays the reason so many of us say less government.I wouldn't want to work for any other chain of command. As a law enforcement officer I want my supervisor to be a cop, not some guy who's never put handcuffs on somebody or even shot a gun. And that is what you had before under the old system. You had a federal LEO reporting to some guy who was probably a biologist for his entire career. What does he know about law enforcement?
You also had a lot of "fishy" things going on. District Rangers telling their officers NOT to investigate certain crimes, even timber theft. So you actually had USFS District Rangers tell his officers to not investigate theft of resources from his own agency. Make sense :dunno:
All forms of LE have become revenue gatherers by way of citation.FYI, ALL fines from federal citations go to the Federal Crime Victims Fund. The only time an agency receives the money is via court ordered restitution which is incredibly rare.
Post by: snowpack on March 09, 2014, 04:17:09 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 09, 2014, 04:23:02 PM
BT, overall did it create more government positions? Under the old system were there additional employees at each district to handle the LEO affairs or the same group of people there now?There are only about a third of USFS LEOs now as there were in the early 90s. As an example, in the 90s each Ranger District in WA had at least one LEO. Now there are more Ranger Districts then there are LEOs, and a lot of Ranger Districts were combined in the late 90s. So now in WA there is less than one LEO per district statewide. I know an LEO in E WA covering three districts, and they aren't slow areas either.
Now as far as I know, USFS as an agency has also seen an overall decline in personnel numbers.
The only federal land management agency that has seen their LEO numbers increase is BLM. NPS is down by about 15% since 2000 and USFWS is down by 50%.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 09, 2014, 05:56:53 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 09, 2014, 06:22:34 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on March 09, 2014, 06:39:18 PM
You all have to remember, USFS LEO's was a "created" position.
When first introduced to us in the Methow district, it would be "paid" for from the sales of "wood premits" aka Firewood!! "if not enough sales of permits, the position would be eliminated" AND you thought government LYING to its citizens was something new!!
All "Problems" have a beginning, that is where you have to start to find a solution.
Like a snowball rolling down hill, from there!
Geee, I wonder what happened to the USFS "revenue" oh ya, its been going up in smoke of decades now instead of being turned into 2x4's !!!
There ya go! :yeah:
Post by: bigtex on March 09, 2014, 06:54:43 PM
We can all respect a chain of command, its the tiers in the chain of command that appear excessive, not the make up.How is it excessive?
For the USFS you have an special agent in charge (SAC) who covers one USFS region and reports to LE Director, there are 10 regions. An Assistant SAC is under the SAC and supervises a group of Special Agents (detectives/investigators) and several Commanders. Under the ASAC are several Commanders which supervise the patrol aspect of a specific part of a region. Under the Commander you have a Patrol Captain who supervises officers on numerous forests.
So for example a USFS Officer in Cle Elum reports to the Captain who supervises USFS LEOs on the Okanogan-Wenatchee and Colville National Forests. This Captain reports to the Commander for WA. The Commander for WA reports to the ASAC who then reports to the SAC.
In comparison to WDFW where you have Chief>Deputy Chief>Captain>Sergeant>Officer
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 09, 2014, 07:13:28 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 09, 2014, 07:25:11 PM
Rather have the county Sheriff take care of it and keep it close to home myself :yike:County/state officers cant enforce USFS regulations unless there is an applicable state/county law, and in most cases there isn't an applicable law.....
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 09, 2014, 07:34:36 PM
This doesn't just effect Forest Service LE personnel, but also county sheriff's.
Most county sheriff's in this state that have USFS lands receive funding from the USFS to have sheriff deputies patrol USFS lands, as an example about 25% of the Skamania County Sheriff's Office is funded by the USFS. So you can imagine those contracting funds from the USFS to Sheriff's will decrease as well.
So not only will there be less USFS LE personnel in the woods, there will be less Sheriff's Deputies as well.
Well I would venture to guess that USFS LE would be a better place for federal tax dollars to go than This damn thing here!!
SWAT stands for "Special Weapons And Tactics". I wonder if any of these guys know any Tactics? :chuckle:
Post by: bigtex on March 12, 2014, 09:24:32 PM
HOWEVER
USFS Law Enforcement is again looking at another self initiated cut to it's law enforcement program. USFS LE is looking at a 1% CUT at the cost of approximately $1 million.