Post by: carlyoungs on March 08, 2014, 04:51:51 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 08, 2014, 06:13:07 PM
Post by: Jburke on March 08, 2014, 06:28:06 PM
Post by: cwuwildcat on March 08, 2014, 06:36:58 PM
I've got six AR's sitting in my safe right now, and have never used the forward assist, other then when I said to myself, "lets see what this does". You might get some guys chipping in, saying, 'Save up a couple hundred more bucks, and buy yourself a...". It's real easy for others to tell you how to spend your money. At $650, which is a real good price on an AR these days, you can start off with a solid AR, and if it meets your needs, you're good to go. If it doesn't, then you haven't invested a lot of money, and can resell it for about the same amount and move on.
Post by: carlyoungs on March 08, 2014, 06:42:49 PM
Post by: cwuwildcat on March 08, 2014, 06:51:48 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 08, 2014, 06:54:25 PM
Post by: kckrawler on March 08, 2014, 07:13:26 PM
If it's your first AR, buy it. You'll learn what you like and dislike, want and don't want, and then you'll buy more...
My first was a run of the mill Bushmaster, had a great time with it, and still do on occasion...
Post by: SCRUBS on March 08, 2014, 07:25:52 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 08, 2014, 07:58:33 PM
Post by: syoungs on March 08, 2014, 08:15:33 PM
If it doesn't have a forward assist and a dust cover, don't buy it. You'll spend more money on an AR to add those than to buy it with it already on it.
I'm a complete ar newb, but will be in the market for one this summer. Can you explain the benifit of the dust cover and assist? Not really sure the entire purpose of these and want to have my bases covered pre purchase
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 08, 2014, 09:10:04 PM
Post by: dscubame on March 08, 2014, 10:13:35 PM
Post by: McCRIZZLEY on March 08, 2014, 11:33:23 PM
But to answer the original question, go for it, it's a great gun. If you don't see yourself wanting more at some point, then jump on it. If you are the type of person that will want to upgrade later, you might as well save yourself some heartache, save up, do some research and buy exactly what you want the first time. but that's me. Anyways, it's a good gun, and worth the money.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 09, 2014, 10:56:29 AM
Post by: justaguy on March 09, 2014, 10:28:05 PM
One thing I have never seen anybody mention, but I have found important, is the use of the forward assist when hunting. I love the ability to lightly let the bolt pull foward, and then silently push it into place.
But to answer the original question, go for it, it's a great gun. If you don't see yourself wanting more at some point, then jump on it. If you are the type of person that will want to upgrade later, you might as well save yourself some heartache, save up, do some research and buy exactly what you want the first time. but that's me. Anyways, it's a good gun, and worth the money.
I agree with Mccrizzley about the "silent bolt drop" option. If the first round doesn't seat and there's no FA, there's no other way that I know of to close the bolt completely, rather than ejecting round #1 and then racking round #2 hard and loud(hoping this one loads right). That's not a big deal until it's a big deal. Dust covers keep dust and mud out, sort of... If it gets in there and you need it to run, you'll wish you had a FA. For plinking at the range, neither options are a big deal.
Everybody's got different opinions about what makes a good AR, so take it all with a grain of salt. If $650's the out the door price, you can't go wrong. I've got a SW optics ready and it's a solid shooter. 1/9 vs 1/7 isn't a big deal until you're shooting several hundred yards from my experience (hope that doesn't chafe any uber-AR officiandos out there). By then, you're probably going to be ready to sell this one (maybe make a profit during the next BLACK RIFLE MELTDOWN, mwah-ha-ha...) and move in the direction that's caught you interest.
Personal tangent: I like to balance weight and accuracy. AR's are inherently accurate but they can get really heavy when you start adding a bunch of crap. I'd rather have a good match barrel and trigger than all the lasers, grips, flashlights, etc.
The next guy who answers might have a completely different opinion, too. No biggie. :tup:
Post by: PNW_Hunter on March 09, 2014, 10:29:48 PM
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm?id=108807 (https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm?id=108807)
Post by: jay.sharkbait on March 09, 2014, 11:49:13 PM
One thing I have never seen anybody mention, but I have found important, is the use of the forward assist when hunting. I love the ability to lightly let the bolt pull foward, and then silently push it into place.
But to answer the original question, go for it, it's a great gun. If you don't see yourself wanting more at some point, then jump on it. If you are the type of person that will want to upgrade later, you might as well save yourself some heartache, save up, do some research and buy exactly what you want the first time. but that's me. Anyways, it's a good gun, and worth the money.
I agree with Mccrizzley about the "silent bolt drop" option. If the first round doesn't seat and there's no FA, there's no other way that I know of to close the bolt completely, rather than ejecting round #1 and then racking round #2 hard and loud(hoping this one loads right). That's not a big deal until it's a big deal. Dust covers keep dust and mud out, sort of... If it gets in there and you need it to run, you'll wish you had a FA. For plinking at the range, neither options are a big deal.
Everybody's got different opinions about what makes a good AR, so take it all with a grain of salt. If $650's the out the door price, you can't go wrong. I've got a SW optics ready and it's a solid shooter. 1/9 vs 1/7 isn't a big deal until you're shooting several hundred yards from my experience (hope that doesn't chafe any uber-AR officiandos out there). By then, you're probably going to be ready to sell this one (maybe make a profit during the next BLACK RIFLE MELTDOWN, mwah-ha-ha...) and move in the direction that's caught you interest.
Personal tangent: I like to balance weight and accuracy. AR's are inherently accurate but they can get really heavy when you start adding a bunch of crap. I'd rather have a good match barrel and trigger than all the lasers, grips, flashlights, etc.
The next guy who answers might have a completely different opinion, too. No biggie. :tup:
Next guy here :hello:
I will not use a FA and all of my AR type rifles do not have it. If you need to chamber a round quietly it's easy enough to push the carrier fwd with your thumb thru the ejection port.
Post by: Fisherdave10 on March 10, 2014, 07:06:06 AM
I will not use a FA and all of my AR type rifles do not have it. If you need to chamber a round quietly it's easy enough to push the carrier fwd with your thumb thru the ejection port.
Um, I'm confused. Are you saying you can use your thumb to force the bolt carrier forward through the ejection port? Pushing the extractor over the rim of the chambered round? You sir must be superman or a first cousin to Chuck Norris... I just tried and am nowhere near able to do that by using my thumb. Forward assist works.
I will not own an AR without a dust cover or forward assist. Both are critical features when working in adverse conditions. The elimination of these standard feature is only a cost cutting measure and an unacceptable compromise. I also use forward assist to fully chamber rounds when I can't be noisy or prefer to leave my primers unmolested by the firing pin. An AR15 is a 'sealed system'. The reliability is in part determined by how well you can keep debris out of it. A dust cover is important.
As far as twist rate, it depends on what you want to hunt. 1:9 will stabilize bullets up to 69gr alright. 1:7 will stabilize 77gr+. If you're going to be using very light weight bullets get something along the lines of 1:12 twist. My preference goes to 1:8 or 1:7 twist due to the added versatility with 77gr, which is about as heavy as you can use in an AR15 platform due to cartridge/magazine length restrictions.
If this rifle will be specifically for hunting and you aren't going on a month long guerrilla fighting campaign, a chrome lined barrel may not be in your best interest. Bare steel will probably have better accuracy.
For self defense: a fast twist rate and chrome lining are desirable. For hunting: it's up to you.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on March 10, 2014, 07:49:01 AM
I will not use a FA and all of my AR type rifles do not have it. If you need to chamber a round quietly it's easy enough to push the carrier fwd with your thumb thru the ejection port.
Um, I'm confused. Are you saying you can use your thumb to force the bolt carrier forward through the ejection port? Pushing the extractor over the rim of the chambered round? You sir must be superman or a first cousin to Chuck Norris... I just tried and am nowhere near able to do that by using my thumb. Forward assist works.
I will not own an AR without a dust cover or forward assist. Both are critical features when working in adverse conditions. The elimination of these standard feature is only a cost cutting measure and an unacceptable compromise. I also use forward assist to fully chamber rounds when I can't be noisy or prefer to leave my primers unmolested by the firing pin. An AR15 is a 'sealed system'. The reliability is in part determined by how well you can keep debris out of it. A dust cover is important.
As far as twist rate, it depends on what you want to hunt. 1:9 will stabilize bullets up to 69gr alright. 1:7 will stabilize 77gr+. If you're going to be using very light weight bullets get something along the lines of 1:12 twist. My preference goes to 1:8 or 1:7 twist due to the added versatility with 77gr, which is about as heavy as you can use in an AR15 platform due to cartridge/magazine length restrictions.
If this rifle will be specifically for hunting and you aren't going on a month long guerrilla fighting campaign, a chrome lined barrel may not be in your best interest. Bare steel will probably have better accuracy.
For self defense: a fast twist rate and chrome lining are desirable. For hunting: it's up to you.
Well I don't know what to tell you.
I just opened a box of MK262 put a round in the chamber of my AR ( White Oak barrel, JP enhanced bolt with verified HS) and pushed the bolt into battery with my thumb. :dunno:
They make a Teflon plug that replaces the FA plunger
The Knights SR25 that is currently deployed in Ashcalistan does not have a Forward assist fyi.
I think using the FA is a bad idea. If the rifle will not go into battery something isn't right and using the FA can make a bad situation worse IMHO
HK even uses serrations on the bolt carrier of their HK33, G3 and other rifles for this very thing.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on March 10, 2014, 03:25:01 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 10, 2014, 04:51:01 PM
Where are you finding the 262's?
That's "Secret Squirrel" stuff. 8) I like the charging handle. :tup:
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 10, 2014, 06:04:43 PM
Where are you finding the 262's?
Better yet, what are they? I've reloaded and shot so many reloads I don't know if I even have a factory round! :chuckle: :dunno:
Post by: jerez on March 10, 2014, 06:40:52 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 10, 2014, 07:43:46 PM
If a round does not chamber easily, something is wrong, and you better find out what! :twocents:
all 5 of my ARs have a Forward Assist feature, and I regard it as a cosmetic feature.... :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 10, 2014, 07:51:13 PM
You can argue the pros and cons of the forward assist all day, but the fact remains that it was added to the gun for the COMBAT troops. Think how many semi-auto hunting rifles that have been made through the years without a forward assist!
If a round does not chamber easily, something is wrong, and you better find out what! :twocents:
all 5 of my ARs have a Forward Assist feature, and I regard it as a cosmetic feature.... :chuckle:
:tup:
Post by: jay.sharkbait on March 10, 2014, 08:54:00 PM
Where are you finding the 262's?
That's "Secret Squirrel" stuff. 8) I like the charging handle. :tup:
Nah, you see it at gunshows all the time. It's usually about 7.50 a box. :chuckle:
Post by: mountainman on March 10, 2014, 10:10:53 PM
its a 77 gr smk, with an added cannelure, loaded by Black Hills. Yes, available at most gun shows. Several vendors have a pile of it at the WAC shows.Where are you finding the 262's?
Better yet, what are they? I've reloaded and shot so many reloads I don't know if I even have a factory round! :chuckle: :dunno:
Post by: WoodlandShooter on March 11, 2014, 12:39:36 PM
Post by: Fisherdave10 on March 12, 2014, 06:55:23 AM
If a round does not chamber easily, something is wrong, and you better find out what! :twocents:
You are ignoring the varying extractor designs. If a semi-auto has a Mauser style extractor that has the round gently slide underneath the hook during feeding, I would mostly agree.
If you have a 'push feed' extractor design such as a Remington 700, Savage 110 or AR15, you can't baby the action shut. Strong pressure is required to force the extractor over the case rim. An AR doesn't exactly have a reciprocating bolt handle, so a forward assist is usually necessary to accomplish this without allowing the action to slam shut.
If everything on your AR is NiB coated and buttery smooth, your experience may vary.
Post by: Fisherdave10 on March 13, 2014, 02:37:26 AM
As a professional operator :P I install O-rings around my AR extractor inserts for increased extractor tension. It's what operators do.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on March 17, 2014, 10:49:25 AM
ok, looks like I have a reason to go to a WAC show now...
well, started playing with some hand loads to try and get to some 262 performance.
have one load at 2620 FPS, and another hitting 2650 FPS...there is a node in there somewhere, so will do a ladder test to see where it is
Post by: T-Dozzer on March 19, 2014, 06:29:48 PM
If it doesn't have a forward assist and a dust cover, don't buy it. You'll spend more money on an AR to add those than to buy it with it already on it.
Couple years ago I would have disagreed. Took out the AR for some cold and snowy yote hunting this year. Had to use the forward assist when bolt wouldn't close due to temp and too much lube. Might have been worse without the dust cover.