Post by: hughjorgan on March 10, 2014, 06:20:37 PM
http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2014/03/13-year-old-archery-hunter-drops-bull-elk-with-one-unexpected-shot/ (http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2014/03/13-year-old-archery-hunter-drops-bull-elk-with-one-unexpected-shot/)
Post by: Dan-o on March 10, 2014, 06:29:10 PM
What do you suppose the percentage of frontal shot archery shots on elk end up with a recovered animal?
I'm no expert, but I'm thinking not very high.
Post by: Lucky1 on March 10, 2014, 06:33:14 PM
Post by: Dan-o on March 10, 2014, 06:34:10 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 10, 2014, 06:37:09 PM
He's very fortunate.
What do you suppose the percentage of frontal shot archery shots on elk end up with a recovered animal?
I'm no expert, but I'm thinking not very high.
I wouldn't think there isn't very many guys that even attempt this shot and those that do are 20 yards or less I would think. If you put that arrow where it needs to be the frontal shot can be highly effective, as in a dead elk. Hit the bone to the left or right a wounded animal.
Post by: ELKBURGER on March 10, 2014, 06:41:41 PM
Post by: h20hunter on March 10, 2014, 06:48:38 PM
Post by: RadSav on March 10, 2014, 06:54:11 PM
Amazing kill shot but a very risky angle to release on. The kid was so lucky to even have a bull in range then luck out on hit.
I agree! It's not the frontal shot that was risky, but the angle in which he took the shot. You can see the arrow actually turn when hitting what I assume is the windpipe. Made the difference IMO. If he had been shooting a faster more powerful bow it might not have been such a good outcome. Very cool video though. Most people never get a chance to see how fast a heart shot with archery kills because they run off.
Between CL and I we've probably taken a half dozen elk with the frontal shot. I believe mine was the furthest at 32 yards. Not the type of shot we'd feel comfortable taking at any distance. But we have never failed to kill one with that shot and have never trailed one more than 30 yards. I know three that never made it 10 yards. Better know your elk anatomy. If not, don't take that shot!
Post by: jason stevens on March 10, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 10, 2014, 06:54:52 PM
Post by: Crunchy on March 10, 2014, 06:55:15 PM
Post by: jason stevens on March 10, 2014, 06:56:18 PM
Post by: kentrek on March 10, 2014, 07:16:26 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 10, 2014, 07:16:59 PM
Post by: northwesthunter84 on March 10, 2014, 07:44:23 PM
Post by: returnofsid on March 10, 2014, 07:48:34 PM
Post by: brianb231 on March 10, 2014, 08:08:46 PM
:twocents:
Post by: lostbackpacker on March 10, 2014, 08:24:33 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 10, 2014, 08:27:56 PM
Post by: sled on March 10, 2014, 08:33:43 PM
Post by: coachcw on March 10, 2014, 09:46:13 PM
Post by: JPhelps on March 10, 2014, 09:48:15 PM
I almost prefer this shot over a broadside shot. :twocents:
Post by: akirkland on March 11, 2014, 11:10:14 AM
Post by: lostbackpacker on March 11, 2014, 11:29:24 AM
Post by: mulehunter on March 11, 2014, 11:45:55 AM
It would be hard for me to released arrow like this, I would wait little longer to get better side. He got lucky Bull eye in heart. Lucky kid.
Post by: boneaddict on March 11, 2014, 11:53:24 AM
Quote
It's one of those shots that's hard to pass but very easy to goof up badly.:yeah:
Post by: erk444 on March 11, 2014, 11:56:40 AM
Post by: mulehunter on March 11, 2014, 12:07:34 PM
He think it was more straight on. Arrow went exact same spot. Must've been 1" lower or something. That kid shot was lucky hit Artery. Or Maybe friend Broadhead didnt open right.
He had 13 Bulls walk by him and it was small and bad spot. He is going again this fall. :yike: I wanna go...
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on March 11, 2014, 02:50:49 PM
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/live-hunt/2011/07/bowhunting-tips-when-take-frontal-shot?src=related&con=outbrain&obref=obnetwork (http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/live-hunt/2011/07/bowhunting-tips-when-take-frontal-shot?src=related&con=outbrain&obref=obnetwork)
Post by: PolarBear on March 11, 2014, 03:07:17 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on March 11, 2014, 04:03:26 PM
I've never killed an elk and have to eat some good draw tags. I've passed on several small bulls and had a few opportunites of BIG bulls that still haunt me. I just can't shoot for the jugular......maybe that's why I've never notched a tag. :dunno:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 11, 2014, 04:27:36 PM
Post by: RadSav on March 11, 2014, 05:45:46 PM
I just can't shoot for the jugular......maybe that's why I've never notched a tag. :dunno:
Neck or jugular shots are for fools. But front on shots are heart/aortic arch shots. No different than broadside heart shots. Only difference is you have two shoulders to worry about instead of one. I'll take it any day on an unaware elk at close range. Better be dang close to straight on though. Angle on that video would have made me pass and wait for him to give me something better. Hard to do when your a young kid and excited as heck.
I'll never give grief to a guy who isn't comfortable with a shot. If your not 100% sure a guy will probably mess it up anyway.
Although I did give the wife some grief for not taking the front on shot on the last day of the season at 3 feet :yike: It was the last freakin' day for goodness sakes! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: RadSav on March 11, 2014, 05:46:55 PM
Post by: Dan-o on March 11, 2014, 06:15:55 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on March 11, 2014, 06:49:27 PM
Jugular
Post by: RadSav on March 11, 2014, 07:31:37 PM
I may disagree with some or I'm seeing it different but in my eyes that wasn't a heart shot.
Jugular
In the replay you can see the arrow turn to the left upon impact. With that much blood loss that quick I'd be willing to bet the arrow made more than slight contact with the aortic arch. Looks too low for a jugular impact to me. Jugular is located between the esophagus and the spine. Arrow doesn't look to be above the esophagus to me. I think he got lucky the arrow turned left instead of right. At least 26" of penetration probably got a few more things too!
I am watching it on a 24" monitor too. So maybe that's why we are seeing two different things :dunno:
Post by: kentrek on March 11, 2014, 08:33:40 PM
I may disagree with some or I'm seeing it different but in my eyes that wasn't a heart shot.
Jugular
In the replay you can see the arrow turn to the left upon impact. With that much blood loss that quick I'd be willing to bet the arrow made more than slight contact with the aortic arch. Looks too low for a jugular impact to me. Jugular is located between the esophagus and the spine. Arrow doesn't look to be above the esophagus to me. I think he got lucky the arrow turned left instead of right.
:yeah: while i try not to judge people on there own shot judgements, id say the kid got lucky..but I dont wana over shadow what is one heck of a cool moment for a young hunter...wish I woulda experienced the same this last year :tup:
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on March 11, 2014, 08:57:19 PM
Post by: Giggles on March 11, 2014, 09:33:55 PM
Post by: RadSav on March 11, 2014, 09:53:43 PM
"If you can kill her quick go for it.", she says, "We can't be blood trailing with this bull up here." About then the closest cow comes right at me. At 35 yards I put one right through the hole. She barely makes it back to the bull and goes down herself. Two elk down, no blood trailing, combined distance traveled less than 25 yards, and one heck of a long night ahead of us. Made for an awesome picture!
Post by: RadSav on March 11, 2014, 09:59:25 PM
Can anyone tell if he was using a Rage broadhead? Kinda looks like it, but I really can't tell. Pretty good publicity for Rage if it is.
Silver ferrule and tapered blades. Doesn't seem like a Rage to me. More like a Shuttle T, but I've slow motioned it many times and just can't make it out for sure. One time I think it has vents then next time I don't. Definitely not a WASP or SlickTrick. The kid is wearing a G5 hat and it says they are staffers of some outdoor thing. So maybe it's a Montec or T3 :dunno:
Post by: NOCK NOCK on March 11, 2014, 10:01:02 PM
In an old thread about "Texas heart shots"(through the rear end :yike:) most all disapproved.
Basically same chances with either. It's a small bullseye but if done correctly is very effective.
I have never taken a frontal shot, but can not say I never will...who knows?
Post by: MLBowhunting on March 11, 2014, 10:02:14 PM
Post by: tonymiller7 on March 13, 2014, 07:14:36 AM
Post by: sakoshooter on March 13, 2014, 11:51:52 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 13, 2014, 11:58:01 AM
Make it center to center low through that hole your pretty much guaranteed to hit the heart or arch. Video reminds me of the wife and I getting our doublebang. She has a bull and five cows at 55 yards barely quartering away. She takes him through the arch and he doesn't make it five yards. The cows are startled, but the bull went down so fast they don't know what is going on. I ask Lorraine, "Should I shoot the cow?" She snaps back quick and irritated, "You're going to spook the bull." I grab her by the hat and look right into her eyes, "He's dead, honey!" It happened so fast she couldn't realize he was not on his feet.looks like a fun day. I've packed out 2 elk in one day but not from the same spot.
"If you can kill her quick go for it.", she says, "We can't be blood trailing with this bull up here." About then the closest cow comes right at me. At 35 yards I put one right through the hole. She barely makes it back to the bull and goes down herself. Two elk down, no blood trailing, combined distance traveled less than 25 yards, and one heck of a long night ahead of us. Made for an awesome picture!
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on March 13, 2014, 12:01:29 PM
Interesting replies. Surprising how many approve of a frontal shot. :dunno:
In an old thread about "Texas heart shots"(through the rear end :yike:) most all disapproved.
Basically same chances with either. It's a small bullseye but if done correctly is very effective.
I have never taken a frontal shot, but can not say I never will...who knows?
You think the distance to the heart through the arse is the same as from the chest? I think that has a lot to do with the different numbers. Also you're not shooting through the guts. I shot my first bull at 7 yards head on. He made it 50 yards..
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 13, 2014, 12:08:37 PM
Post by: tonymiller7 on March 13, 2014, 12:26:58 PM
I'm guessing he hit the jugular. No blood to the brain would probably cause a very fast kill like that.
Blood was too bright to bein vein blood, which would be coming from the brain back to the heart. Looks like he got the carotid artery. Sorry had a biology nerd moment.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 13, 2014, 12:30:37 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 13, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
That picture and story is amazing RAD!can't believe he let his wife shoot a bigger elk than him. :yike:
Post by: h20hunter on March 13, 2014, 12:35:15 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 13, 2014, 12:45:36 PM
Yeah it sounds like the killing assignments were mutually understood.
Post by: RadSav on March 13, 2014, 01:00:37 PM
But, what husband would take away her opportunity to tag her first branched bull. A guy would have to carry that guilt around for quite some time.
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 13, 2014, 01:16:54 PM
Post by: TheHunt on March 13, 2014, 01:23:37 PM
Since it was her first I understand. Wish I could get my wife to hunt. She'll shoot guns and bows but just doesn't want to kill :dunno:. She's all about putting meat in the freezer as long as she doesn't have to pull the trigger.
My wife is the same.
Post by: RadSav on March 13, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
One of the most difficult decisions I've ever made in the woods was letting her shoot the big bear. I had that thing in my scope for what seemed like an hour! More than once I was applying pressure to the trigger. Each time I pulled out of the shot because I could hear her heart beat through her mouth. She was REALLY excited!!! Had I pulled the trigger I doubt she would have said "Yes" when I asked her to marry me.
I'm still debating whether I made the right choice :chuckle:
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 13, 2014, 01:34:01 PM
Post by: elk247 on March 13, 2014, 02:23:04 PM
In the comments he says it was a G5 Montec. I shot a bull at the same distance with the same broadhead at the same poundage in 2010. My arrow went further than the bull (23 yrd. Shot) shortest recovery I've seen on an elk in person. Although I've dropped a few deer on the spot. For shooters that are confident in shot placement and are presented with a close up opportunity this is a very lethal shot.Can anyone tell if he was using a Rage broadhead? Kinda looks like it, but I really can't tell. Pretty good publicity for Rage if it is.
Silver ferrule and tapered blades. Doesn't seem like a Rage to me. More like a Shuttle T, but I've slow motioned it many times and just can't make it out for sure. One time I think it has vents then next time I don't. Definitely not a WASP or SlickTrick. The kid is wearing a G5 hat and it says they are staffers of some outdoor thing. So maybe it's a Montec or T3 :dunno:
Post by: deltaops on March 13, 2014, 02:39:44 PM
Ok maybe not with all that going on, but I would take the shot for sure. I am not saying anything bad about anyone so please, INTERNET POLICE AKA FORUM POLICE, :tung: do not take this the wrong way. I am comfortable and confident enough with my equipment that i would take it in a heartbeat.
Post by: elk247 on March 13, 2014, 02:48:37 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on March 13, 2014, 03:41:10 PM
Interesting replies. Surprising how many approve of a frontal shot. :dunno:
In an old thread about "Texas heart shots"(through the rear end :yike:) most all disapproved.
Basically same chances with either. It's a small bullseye but if done correctly is very effective.
I have never taken a frontal shot, but can not say I never will...who knows?
You think the distance to the heart through the arse is the same as from the chest? I think that has a lot to do with the different numbers. Also you're not shooting through the guts. I shot my first bull at 7 yards head on. He made it 50 yards..
Never said that.
Post by: RadSav on March 13, 2014, 06:00:51 PM
can't believe he let his wife shoot a bigger elk than him. :yike:
I was just reminded that due to pending internet police action I would not have been able to take that shot as 55 yards is 10 yards beyond the ethical threshold. Of course she is a native squaw and anything she does is going to be viewed with hostility on the intra net. So what did she have to lose :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 14, 2014, 06:27:21 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 14, 2014, 06:40:19 AM
very good point :chuckle:can't believe he let his wife shoot a bigger elk than him. :yike:
I was just reminded that due to pending internet police action I would not have been able to take that shot as 55 yards is 10 yards beyond the ethical threshold. Of course she is a native squaw and anything she does is going to be viewed with hostility on the intra net. So what did she have to lose :chuckle:
Post by: elk247 on March 14, 2014, 02:03:43 PM
He's very fortunate.Good question. Poll question? I'm guessing a higher number than you might think. :dunno: an arrow in the front will destroy vitals and make short work of tracking/trailing.
What do you suppose the percentage of frontal shot archery shots on elk end up with a recovered animal?
I'm no expert, but I'm thinking not very high.
Post by: elk247 on March 14, 2014, 02:13:33 PM
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on March 14, 2014, 02:20:56 PM
Interesting replies. Surprising how many approve of a frontal shot. :dunno:
In an old thread about "Texas heart shots"(through the rear end :yike:) most all disapproved.
Basically same chances with either. It's a small bullseye but if done correctly is very effective.
I have never taken a frontal shot, but can not say I never will...who knows?
You think the distance to the heart through the arse is the same as from the chest? I think that has a lot to do with the different numbers. Also you're not shooting through the guts. I shot my first bull at 7 yards head on. He made it 50 yards..
Never said that.
You said same chances, which they are not. Your chances of reaching the boiler room from the front are far far greater.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 14, 2014, 02:22:55 PM
If I was comfortable, I'd take a frontal shot on an elk all day. They are HUGE animals, it's not like a spindly whitetail that will drop a foot at the shot :yike:
Post by: elk247 on March 14, 2014, 02:42:01 PM
Post by: kentrek on March 14, 2014, 05:14:31 PM
They are HUGE animals, it's not like a spindly whitetail that will drop a foot at the shot :yike:
[/quote]
Lol youd be surprised how far an elk can move at 20 yards before your arrow can get there
Post by: RadSav on March 14, 2014, 06:16:42 PM
Lol youd be surprised how far an elk can move at 20 yards before your arrow can get there
I'm sure there are uptight smart ones out there somewhere. I've just never met one yet :chuckle:
I did have one that thought he could back up fast enough...that was funny!
Post by: NOCK NOCK on March 14, 2014, 08:20:41 PM
Interesting replies. Surprising how many approve of a frontal shot. :dunno:
In an old thread about "Texas heart shots"(through the rear end :yike:) most all disapproved.
Basically same chances with either. It's a small bullseye but if done correctly is very effective.
I have never taken a frontal shot, but can not say I never will...who knows?
You think the distance to the heart through the arse is the same as from the chest? I think that has a lot to do with the different numbers. Also you're not shooting through the guts. I shot my first bull at 7 yards head on. He made it 50 yards..
Never said that.
You said same chances, which they are not. Your chances of reaching the boiler room from the front are far far greater.
I said basically same chances. Read my original post again, nowhere did I mention anything about shooting distances to the heart. Not sure where you got that from. :dunno:
If you think that the only quick and humane kill shot is through the heart, you are sadly mistaken. A bullseye in the brown eye will take out multiple organs=faster death. Liver, lungs, Major arteries, there is more than one way to quickly kill an animal. IMO
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 14, 2014, 09:32:52 PM
[quouthor=Jonathan_S link=topic=149334.msg1985116#msg1985116 date=1394832175]
They are HUGE animals, it's not like a spindly whitetail that will drop a foot at the shot :yike:
Lol youd be surprised how far an elk can move at 20 yards before your arrow can get there
[/quote]
I know elk are capable of pop-lock & dropping it like a deer and I'm not an experienced expert but I've watched hundreds of archery videos and it very much seems that the vast majority of elk have a slight twitch at the shot if anything. Noise doesn't bother elk as much as it does deer right?
Whitetail on the other hand are hypersensitive to noise and I'm pretty sure the buck I shot at 42 yards last fall dropped down 2' and came back up into the arrow :chuckle:
Post by: kentrek on March 14, 2014, 11:35:13 PM
Lol youd be surprised how far an elk can move at 20 yards before your arrow can get there
I'm sure there are uptight smart ones out there somewhere. I've just never met one yet :chuckle:
I did have one that thought he could back up fast enough...that was funny!
We should trade elk :chuckle:
But you did hit the nail on the head (like usual)..not all elk are the same , some are dumb/smart and are alert/un alert
Get a smart/alert elk and neo wont stand a chance but a dumb one..well I think we all know the dumb ones dont make it very long lol
My bull this year swirled at least 30degrees before my arrow travelled the 25yards...I got really really lucky
Post by: xXLojackXx on March 19, 2014, 08:28:34 AM