Post by: throttlejocky20 on March 17, 2014, 07:04:55 PM
Post by: lostbackpacker on March 17, 2014, 07:20:18 PM
Post by: xXLojackXx on March 17, 2014, 07:33:45 PM
Post by: scottcrb on March 17, 2014, 07:55:02 PM
Post by: northwesthunter84 on March 17, 2014, 09:04:20 PM
Post by: demontang on March 17, 2014, 09:17:49 PM
Id throw elite in the bunch along with prime they both have great bows out :tup:
Post by: Vo2max on March 17, 2014, 09:19:46 PM
Post by: hollymaster on March 17, 2014, 09:21:50 PM
Post by: bullfisher on March 17, 2014, 10:24:03 PM
Playing "bow go round" over the years has lead me to realize that as long as I nerd out on my setup and tuning, my groups on the target never change. So I went back to shooting for speed and energy. Its not for everyone, and its not on your list, sorry.
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 18, 2014, 06:45:48 AM
Post by: jason stevens on March 18, 2014, 07:25:27 AM
Post by: nw_bowhunter on March 18, 2014, 08:22:29 AM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on March 18, 2014, 09:38:14 AM
No bows with speed? :chuckle: :chuckle:Not to worried about speed. Right now I shoot a DXT IBO 320. What im looking at is a longer axel to axel. I don't want to go any shorter than 32 inches. A slow bow will kill an elk just as good as a fast one if the arrow is placed right. And the faster the bow the less forgiving. Im heading to check out the Hoyts tonight and hopefully shoot a few.
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 18, 2014, 09:48:32 AM
Post by: Jellymon on March 18, 2014, 10:40:56 AM
Post by: RadSav on March 18, 2014, 11:06:08 AM
Not to worried about speed.
If you are not worried about speed why are three of the four bows listed 6" brace height bows? Do you have a short draw length?
The one 7" bow you list is the Mathews Creed. That is 30" so I'm not sure that meets your A2A requirement.
Post by: RadSav on March 18, 2014, 01:08:32 PM
Assuming a bow is COMPLETELY rigid, which few are, brace height is the primary factor in torque free stability at full draw and the early stages of release. This is why the majority of your competitive target bows have neither low brace heights or parallel limbs. In todays hunting bows parallel limbs are the rage and for many reasons that is not a bad thing. But, that does mean you do not get a lengthening of the virtual brace height as you draw. So this limits the perceived stability of the bow at anchor. Heavy reflexed risers and short brace heights add to these issues both at full draw and through the shot process. If everything is perfect all is good and the accuracy of the bow is realized. Add in physical and mental fatigue, heavy hunting clothing, uneven ground, adrenalin spikes of an approaching bull, and various weather interference...and you now have even more negatives to overcome in getting that shot perfect.
These short brace height hunting bows can often be an acceptable compromise when draw lengths are short. Shootability, trajectory and to some degree penetration are all factors in how much a person wishes to compromise in brace height. For short draw archers the percentage game often falls in their favor with these short brace heights. Average draw length archers do not see the percentages tip in their favor all that often. So what might be a reasonable compromise for D-Rock or my wife, isn't necessarily a reasonable compromise for myself. Especially when I have a tendency to struggle with target panic on top of all the other negative influences in the field.
Probably the biggest struggle we all have with short brace height bows comes during late season hunting. That time of year when we find ourselves stiff, often uncomfortable and wrapped heavily in bulky clothing. Not only does stability increasingly come into place at this time, but so does clearance between the string and your clothing. The lower the brace height the closer the string gets to your wrist and forearm. While it may not be an issue during summer and early fall when we all are wearing t-shirts and lightweight clothing. It does severely effect what we can and can not wear during those late season opportunities. Even the slightest impact with clothing can deflect the impact of a high poundage bow.
So one thing you might consider tonight as you head off to test shoot some bows...bring a late season hunting jacket with you! Shoot low and medium brace height bows and see if string slap is greater shooting one over the other. For me, it was a HUGE difference. And unfortunately, I did not have the luxury of finding it out at my local shop. I had to find out the hard way, in December, with a 6X6 bull broadside at 40 yards! I might not be the fastest to recognize or address my mistakes, but when I miss a slam dunk shot at a trophy animal it doesn't take but a moment for me to change. And after that day I've never once stepped foot into the hunting field with a 6" brace height or less bow in my hands! Don't be like me and find out in the field. Do your due diligence on the range before it becomes an issue in the field and costs you a trophy of a lifetime!
Good luck this evening and enjoy yourself. Testing bows at the local archery shop is like Christmas all year long :tup:
Post by: throttlejocky20 on March 18, 2014, 01:13:10 PM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on March 18, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
Where are you checking out the hoyts?Great North West Archery
Post by: throttlejocky20 on March 18, 2014, 01:15:43 PM
Make sure to check out Elite. Evergreen archery on meridian sells them. Ever since I bought my answer my hoyt vector turbo has pretty much lived in its case. Easiest drawing most comfortable bow I've ever shot, extremely accurate, quiet, and the best fit, finish and quality on the market IMO. They also come with winners choice strings. :tup:I have never looked into them. What are a couple models I should check out?
Post by: Jellymon on March 18, 2014, 01:27:33 PM
Make sure to check out Elite. Evergreen archery on meridian sells them. Ever since I bought my answer my hoyt vector turbo has pretty much lived in its case. Easiest drawing most comfortable bow I've ever shot, extremely accurate, quiet, and the best fit, finish and quality on the market IMO. They also come with winners choice strings. :tup:I have never looked into them. What are a couple models I should check out?
The 2014 energys are getting great reviews. If they have any 2013s left the answer, pure, and hunter are all great bows. I've owned 2 hoyts, 3 mathews, and two bowtechs, all newer than 2009 and this Elite answer is my favorite so far. Definitely worth checking out.
Post by: et1702 on March 18, 2014, 01:50:19 PM
I also have a newer Mathews Monster (i.e., newer than my Trykon XL). It is a great shooting bow and faster, but has a 6-inch brace. As RadSav expounded upon, short brace might be good for short draw length archer. Not so good for long draw archer IMHO, especially when using cold weather gear. So, even though it is newer and a little faster than my Hoyt, the Monster is my backup bow.
If I were going to buy a new bow, I'd seriously consider the Elite Energy 35. You might be able to order one from Steve at S&S Archery in Idaho and save some sales tax money.
ET
Post by: RadSav on March 18, 2014, 01:51:54 PM
I have heard not so good reviews on the creed so I threw it in to see what people said. I am actually looking into shooting the spyder and faktor 34. I really don't care about speed. most bows I have been told to look into have less than a 7 inch brace height. I put the turbo on because that's what I was told to check out but further review I would go with the 34.
I think a lot of guys can't see much past the IBO sticker and front logo :chuckle: Funny thing is that if they looked past the logo they could get better IBO for less money and without having to go to the Turbo/low brace height. That Faktor 34 is a dang nice bow. Expensive for a 330 bow, but nice none-the-less. But, there are a bunch of good, easy to shoot, 32+" bows in the 330 - 340 speed range with 7" or more brace heights. Sounds like you are going to have fun finding just the right one for you. Good luck!
Post by: bullfisher on March 18, 2014, 02:18:58 PM
Things to consider when choosing a short brace height bow;Not trying to hijack here. But radsav, are you against armguards? I havnt found a clothing situation I couldn't cure with an armguard, and I shoot an omen! I found myself in the same situation you were in with a 6" bow and havnt shot without one since.
Assuming a bow is COMPLETELY rigid, which few are, brace height is the primary factor in torque free stability at full draw and the early stages of release. This is why the majority of your competitive target bows have neither low brace heights or parallel limbs. In todays hunting bows parallel limbs are the rage and for many reasons that is not a bad thing. But, that does mean you do not get a lengthening of the virtual brace height as you draw. So this limits the perceived stability of the bow at anchor. Heavy reflexed risers and short brace heights add to these issues both at full draw and through the shot process. If everything is perfect all is good and the accuracy of the bow is realized. Add in physical and mental fatigue, heavy hunting clothing, uneven ground, adrenalin spikes of an approaching bull, and various weather interference...and you now have even more negatives to overcome in getting that shot perfect.
These short brace height hunting bows can often be an acceptable compromise when draw lengths are short. Shootability, trajectory and to some degree penetration are all factors in how much a person wishes to compromise in brace height. For short draw archers the percentage game often falls in their favor with these short brace heights. Average draw length archers do not see the percentages tip in their favor all that often. So what might be a reasonable compromise for D-Rock or my wife, isn't necessarily a reasonable compromise for myself. Especially when I have a tendency to struggle with target panic on top of all the other negative influences in the field.
Probably the biggest struggle we all have with short brace height bows comes during late season hunting. That time of year when we find ourselves stiff, often uncomfortable and wrapped heavily in bulky clothing. Not only does stability increasingly come into place at this time, but so does clearance between the string and your clothing. The lower the brace height the closer the string gets to your wrist and forearm. While it may not be an issue during summer and early fall when we all are wearing t-shirts and lightweight clothing. It does severely effect what we can and can not wear during those late season opportunities. Even the slightest impact with clothing can deflect the impact of a high poundage bow.
So one thing you might consider tonight as you head off to test shoot some bows...bring a late season hunting jacket with you! Shoot low and medium brace height bows and see if string slap is greater shooting one over the other. For me, it was a HUGE difference. And unfortunately, I did not have the luxury of finding it out at my local shop. I had to find out the hard way, in December, with a 6X6 bull broadside at 40 yards! I might not be the fastest to recognize or address my mistakes, but when I miss a slam dunk shot at a trophy animal it doesn't take but a moment for me to change. And after that day I've never once stepped foot into the hunting field with a 6" brace height or less bow in my hands! Don't be like me and find out in the field. Do your due diligence on the range before it becomes an issue in the field and costs you a trophy of a lifetime!
Good luck this evening and enjoy yourself. Testing bows at the local archery shop is like Christmas all year long :tup:
Post by: throttlejocky20 on March 18, 2014, 02:20:46 PM
Post by: RadSav on March 18, 2014, 03:07:56 PM
Not trying to hijack here. But radsav, are you against armguards? I havnt found a clothing situation I couldn't cure with an armguard, and I shoot an omen! I found myself in the same situation you were in with a 6" bow and havnt shot without one since.
I'm not a big fan of arm guards. Though with her short brace height bow the wife does have to wear one during those late hunts. Even then she gets some hard contact so her late season shots are limited more than would be during early season. When she shot that last big bull in the late season the slap noise was VERY loud. I thought for sure she had missed the shot at 48 yards. When I caught the fletching in the binos I was shocked to see it was perfect just before he stumbled and went down!
I will wear one if I have to, when it's really cold and I have to wear the bigger jacket. But I prefer to just shoot a higher brace height and not worry about it. Even then when I have to wear the Umpa Lumpa coat often an armguard is required. But it has to be below zero for me to need that jacket. Doesn't often get that cold in Washington so usually not an issue here.
I'm happy it works for you! At Omen brace height you are one of the few. Sounds like you've got pretty good form!
Post by: bullfisher on March 18, 2014, 03:36:19 PM
Form?!? Well maybe in my backyard, but take a knee on a side hill with a pack on and everything goes out the window!Not trying to hijack here. But radsav, are you against armguards? I havnt found a clothing situation I couldn't cure with an armguard, and I shoot an omen! I found myself in the same situation you were in with a 6" bow and havnt shot without one since.
I'm not a big fan of arm guards. Though with her short brace height bow the wife does have to wear one during those late hunts. Even then she gets some hard contact so her late season shots are limited more than would be during early season. When she shot that last big bull in the late season the slap noise was VERY loud. I thought for sure she had missed the shot at 48 yards. When I caught the fletching in the binos I was shocked to see it was perfect just before he stumbled and went down!
I will wear one if I have to, when it's really cold and I have to wear the bigger jacket. But I prefer to just shoot a higher brace height and not worry about it. Even then when I have to wear the Umpa Lumpa coat often an armguard is required. But it has to be below zero for me to need that jacket. Doesn't often get that cold in Washington so usually not an issue here.
I'm happy it works for you! At Omen brace height you are one of the few. Sounds like you've got pretty good form!
As long as I tuck my knuckles and subdue any clothing with a guard the bow will do the rest as far as wrist slap goes. I will say this, most low bh bows today will have some sort of string stop. If its put in the right place, like pse did with the omen, it will greatly reduce any chance of slap.
Post by: RightPlace-RightTime on March 18, 2014, 03:51:57 PM
Post by: brianb231 on March 18, 2014, 04:03:42 PM
My :twocents:
Brianb231
Post by: Greg Mullins on March 18, 2014, 08:04:16 PM
Post by: RadSav on March 18, 2014, 08:31:46 PM
Carbon Spyder tough, ugly, light, adequate speed and dead in your hand.
There, I fixed it for you :chuckle:
Post by: sakoshooter on March 19, 2014, 02:43:24 AM
I shoot a Mathews Z7 and can't justify dropping money on a new bow considering there is not much that has changed since 2010. I think buying a year or two old bow can be beneficial when it comes to saving a little money.
Sound wisdom pilgrim.
Post by: kingfisher82 on March 20, 2014, 10:06:29 AM
Post by: bowpredator on March 20, 2014, 06:41:32 PM
Post by: nalley112 on March 20, 2014, 07:21:45 PM