Post by: singleshot12 on March 28, 2014, 07:29:21 AM
Atleast the majority of these birds are filling there gut with plants vs. native steelhead and chinook smolts I suppose but. Maybe that's the plan :dunno: :rolleyes: But every year there are more and they have no natural predator that I'm aware of.
Just another invasive species that our wonderful state protects. In a logical perfect world there would be a bounty on these birds until there is a balance.
Post by: Curly on March 28, 2014, 08:55:24 AM
Post by: Maverick on March 28, 2014, 09:16:09 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on March 28, 2014, 09:41:26 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 28, 2014, 10:56:28 AM
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Post by: Curly on March 28, 2014, 11:06:03 AM
How about stop planting the lakes with little trout and feeding the cormorants?
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or how about a governor that tells enforcement to not bother writing someone up for shooting cormorants on sight. They ought to be treated like coyotes..........
You know, like the ID governor who told his guys not to enforce laws regarding killing wolves. Sometimes these stupid Federal rules need to be broken if they are stupid laws.
Post by: Humptulips on March 28, 2014, 11:36:41 AM
As an example I did an otter removal out of a fish hatchery. There were 5 otters and they were eating 5000 to 7000 fish every night. It takes a lot of these small fish to fill a predator up.
I also did a removal for the Quinaults at their net pens one year. They had a loss of 200,000 salmon per year from predation from herons, otters, and cormorants combined.
Post by: singleshot12 on March 28, 2014, 11:40:58 AM
How about stop planting the lakes with little trout and feeding the cormorants?
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Keep planting but later on in April after the stinkin cormorants have migrated. Lakes would have a lot more hold over action going on the following year. The hold overs are what we need for fishing.
But like I said before maybe we are just paying to keep the cormorants fed for now to help keep them off the bays and rivers . Not sure if WDFW thinks that far ahead tho :chuckle:
Post by: singleshot12 on March 28, 2014, 11:46:52 AM
It makes a good picture that cormorant with that big fish but I think the real damage is done by all the smaller fish that get eaten.
As an example I did an otter removal out of a fish hatchery. There were 5 otters and they were eating 5000 to 7000 fish every night. It takes a lot of these small fish to fill a predator up.
I also did a removal for the Quinaults at their net pens one year. They had a loss of 200,000 salmon per year from predation from herons, otters, and cormorants combined.
Atleast we can trap otters. Herons are a problem too just as seals. Predators of all kinds simply need to be managed correctly.
Post by: denali on March 28, 2014, 11:50:09 AM
The action will occur at McNary Dam on the Columbia River and Ice Harbor, Lower Monumental, Little Goose and Lower Granite dams on the Snake River.
CLARKSTON, Wash. (AP) — The Army Corps of Engineers this spring will begin killing birds at some Snake and Columbia river dams to help protect juvenile salmon and steelhead.
The agency unveiled a plan Thursday that will allow as many as 1,200 California gulls, 650 ring-billed gulls and 150 double-crested cormorants to be killed.
The Lewiston Tribune says the action will occur at McNary Dam on the Columbia River and Ice Harbor, Lower Monumental, Little Goose and Lower Granite dams on the Snake River.
The corps says birds are typically the single largest cause of juvenile salmon and steelhead mortality. A 2009 study estimated that between 4 percent and 21 percent of smolts passing through the dams are eaten by birds.
The corps has long used non-lethal methods to scare away birds.
- See more at: http://www.capitalpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2014140329886&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+capitalpress%2FTSrG+%28Capital+Press+%7C%29&utm_content=FaceBook#sthash.qfqHj0Fu.dpuf (http://www.capitalpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2014140329886&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+capitalpress%2FTSrG+%28Capital+Press+%7C%29&utm_content=FaceBook#sthash.qfqHj0Fu.dpuf)
Post by: bhawley76 on March 28, 2014, 12:11:24 PM
Post by: Curly on March 28, 2014, 12:28:41 PM
not going to help planted trout but it's a start :tup:
The action will occur at McNary Dam on the Columbia River and Ice Harbor, Lower Monumental, Little Goose and Lower Granite dams on the Snake River.
CLARKSTON, Wash. (AP) — The Army Corps of Engineers this spring will begin killing birds at some Snake and Columbia river dams to help protect juvenile salmon and steelhead.
The agency unveiled a plan Thursday that will allow as many as 1,200 California gulls, 650 ring-billed gulls and 150 double-crested cormorants to be killed.
:tup: Some good news, right there! :tup:
Post by: singleshot12 on March 29, 2014, 07:45:57 AM
Post by: steeleywhopper on March 29, 2014, 08:12:02 AM
Post by: splitshot on March 29, 2014, 08:23:34 AM
Post by: Brad Harshman on March 29, 2014, 08:29:21 AM
It just goes to show the plan has to be comprehensive. And tale into account birds with long daily flights and migrating birds too, not just the residents.
Post by: Ricochet on March 29, 2014, 08:47:34 AM
Post by: Curly on March 29, 2014, 09:06:58 AM
the above link is interesting article about cormorants and why is they are protected the protection has to do with an international treaty Signed almost a hundred years ago. the bottom line appears to be that The United States can kill cormorants without any retribution Canada since there is no teeth for enforcement in the Treaty.
Post by: h2ofowlr on March 29, 2014, 09:27:14 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on March 29, 2014, 02:35:28 PM
They can start removing them on the mouth of Steaboat slough if they want to make impact here. Those darn things nest out there by the thousands.
Steamboat slough in Everett? You'd think if enough of us would beach to the state that something could be done locally. Destroying the nests(eggs) in the rookeries makes the most sense.
Post by: lokidog on March 29, 2014, 10:26:18 PM
I saw one flock of Common Mergansers this year, on the last day of duck season, that had over 500 birds in it. :yike: This is way more than the number of cormorants I see out here.
Post by: splitshot on March 29, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on March 30, 2014, 04:43:31 PM
Not saying cormorants aren't a problem, but all you guys whining about them, are you shooting every merganser you can during duck season?
I saw one flock of Common Mergansers this year, on the last day of duck season, that had over 500 birds in it. :yike: This is way more than the number of cormorants I see out here.
Always feel good about shooting mergansers and they do make good crab bait. What do you think they are feeding on up there Loki? Figured mergansers mostly ate crawdads and sticklebacks where I see them.
Hoping we'll get a season on cormorants in the near future so Loki maybe you can come up with a good recipe for them by then :dunno: :tup:
Post by: singleshot12 on March 30, 2014, 04:48:03 PM
30-40 years ago we had no cormorants in the potholes. now we have thousands. if every hunter would shoot a few it would help. blast away. mike w
I see V's of them flying over Pugit sound more than grey geese now. They are birds from Hell.
Post by: M_59 on March 30, 2014, 05:30:13 PM
Post by: metlhead on March 30, 2014, 07:42:15 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on March 30, 2014, 07:53:13 PM
Legally, the only thing we can do for cormorants is put the pressure on for more state involved intervention. Don't take chances by shooting them. Responsible hunters in the public's eye are few. Mergansers on the other hand, blast away. SakoS got me hooked on targeting them during slow times, and we even make special trips. A friend made a half dozen full size foam floaters, and those birds readily decoy, making wonderful big and fast targets. AND, they have big fillets that taste just fine. Been doing a number on the cowlitz population for a few years now. Join in and let's make a responsible difference.That's a really good idea you're onto there. I've always shot 'em incidental- but why not target mergansers?
Plenty of places to hunt, plenty of birds, limited competition...
Merganser derby 2014/15!
I'm sure it's been done before:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.knutsondecoys.com%2Fimages%2Fdecoy_images%2Fsportplast%2FSTD96_97Mergaser.jpg&hash=ff66a439ebc6c7662b02c98d7c922ea7d6d93842)
http://www.knutsondecoys.com/decoy_duck/sea_duck.html (http://www.knutsondecoys.com/decoy_duck/sea_duck.html)
http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=823989 (http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=823989)
Zach Knepp Outdoors common merganser decoys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7dFfYabatA#)
Post by: ICEMAN on March 30, 2014, 08:04:40 PM
Post by: lokidog on March 30, 2014, 11:29:42 PM
I have eaten megansers and they are just fine. Don't expect chicken, treat them like steak.
:yeah: I did Salsbury Steak with mine this year and even my, sometimes strong tasting meat finicky, wife liked it.
A Merganser Derby would be fun, although they seem to be a lot more wary than many other ducks out here on the salt, sometimes.
Singleshot, they are probably eating smelt or herring and any incidental fish, shrimp, and small crabs they can find. They stretch out in a line and just work the bait like a huge net. A couple years ago, I had 78 of them swim by the end of the dock where we keep our dinghy.
Post by: singleshot12 on March 31, 2014, 07:20:20 AM
If you are OLD and can remember back to the 60's-70-s, you never saw a cormorant inland of the salt water. Seems like they used to be legal to shoot. I knew guys that went black mouth fishing back in the day after waterfowl season was over and they would shoot up all their left over reloads on roost rocks out in the bay. There are approximately 300 that roost on the power lines every evening at Lions Park in Mt. Vernon. I figure that if they eat "only" 10 smolts per day , that would be 90,000 per month and over one MILLION per year. The state is short on funds, can't fund hatcheries, and we would more than gladly help with the predation problem for FREE. They had/have this problem in Nehalem Bay, Oregon. If you do a search I would imagine you can still find a copy of the study results online. Kinda like the seal/sea lion issue. They spend untold thousands on studies and they take out a couple "problem" ones when you could turn a sportsman loose with a .22 and a 59cent box of ammo. OOOPs, I mean a $10 box of ammo. There I go back to the 70's again.
:yeah: You said it!!
As far as I can tell the cormorant is just another invasive predator like the wolf,cougar etc. being protected for what ever ridiculous reason? :bash:
Post by: Ripper on March 31, 2014, 09:37:50 AM
Post by: lokidog on April 01, 2014, 07:56:54 AM
http://outdoornewsdaily.com/cormorant-hazing-aims-to-protect-young-fish/comment-page-1/#comment-6697 (http://outdoornewsdaily.com/cormorant-hazing-aims-to-protect-young-fish/comment-page-1/#comment-6697)
Post by: Curly on April 01, 2014, 10:07:29 AM
I'd rather they hazed them with some lethal means. :twocents:
Post by: singleshot12 on April 01, 2014, 05:23:27 PM
They are waterfowl for fuxsake and the daily limit should be 7