Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: WapitiTalk1 on March 28, 2014, 08:26:46 AM

Title: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on March 28, 2014, 08:26:46 AM: Let's assume you're perched in your tree stand about 15 feet off the ground (I know the picture doesn't quite look like 15 feet but play along anyway). You hear this guy coming through the brush straight away and are at full draw when he steps out and stops right in the middle of the wallow, 20 yards from your tree. Shoot or no shot here for you? If you say shoot, please place a dot or X where your arrow is heading.

Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg and add the marked up pic with your post.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 08:34:12 AM: Baam! Anyone disagree?
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: JLS on March 28, 2014, 08:50:47 AM: Better have nerves of steel.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 08:52:45 AM: That was my initial choice JLS but wouldn't that hit some pretty solid bone?
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: lostbackpacker on March 28, 2014, 08:52:50 AM: If he's in that wallow more than likely he will drop his guard just a little bit. its familiar territory to him. he will move and present a better shot opportunity. I would wait
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: elkoholic1 on March 28, 2014, 08:53:54 AM: :archery_smiley:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: JLS on March 28, 2014, 08:57:31 AM: Quote from: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 08:52:45 AM
That was my initial choice JLS but wouldn't that hit some pretty solid bone?

It will pass right in front of the scapula and will only need to penetrate ribs. At that angle you are right in the boiler room where all of the arteries and veins are coming together. Massive bleeding.

In yours the arrow will pass through the upper part of the scapula, which isn't a big deal. The scapula at this part is thinner than a rib bone and will break. I had to shoot a cow once that I had hit the evening prior. She was bedded facing away, and I only had a shot through the scapula, nothing else. I was 30 yards away. The arrow went through the scapula and down into the opposite front leg. When she stood up there was about 10" of arrow sticking out. She went about two steps.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on March 28, 2014, 09:13:37 AM: Some graphic aids for your use while discussing the shoot or no shot threads ;)
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: bearpaw on March 28, 2014, 09:18:08 AM: I shot right through the shoulder bone on my muskox, using the same broadhead I would take the shot as shown by either JLS or Jonathon. A person could also wait for an angling away shot if you are nervous about bone.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 09:44:36 AM: Thanks Dale and JLS. I really enjoy looking at these scenarios because I get too much of the, "wait for a perfectly broadside shot" and I know that there are reliable and lethal shots from almost every angle for those who shoot straight.

It seems that everytime I've tried to wait and pass on a good shot and wait for a perfect shot, it never comes along :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 28, 2014, 09:47:57 AM: These are always questions I can't really answer. On paper its a BAD shot and I'd hope for better. That being said in the moment with adrenaline and couldn't tell you what I would do. Probably hug that shoulder the best I could. I shot a spike a few years back in front of the shoulder at even more of an angel this this elk. It was pretty much the same situation 20 yards from a stand. I hit a little high and broke his back.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 28, 2014, 09:52:03 AM: Either red dot ( Jls or Jonathan) will have the Sam results... sore body and large taxidermy bill... id aim right with Jonathon.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 10:09:39 AM: :yeah: those whale tails are impressive
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: jrebel on March 28, 2014, 10:32:27 AM: I really don't like sharp quartering shots toward me. If I was going to shoot this bull I would pick one of the two red circles depending on all factors.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: jrebel on March 28, 2014, 10:34:48 AM: Does anyone have this app and if so what do you think about it. It may help with some of these scenarios.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/LethalShotApp.aspx (http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/LethalShotApp.aspx)
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: northwesthunter84 on March 28, 2014, 01:30:16 PM: I would take JLS's shot choice even at that angle that's double lung and with the downward angle from the tree stand the main arteries/veins in and out of the heart.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Broken Arrow on March 28, 2014, 01:38:36 PM: I just don't think the scenario is realistic, like this is a frozen statue. I will stick with my guns, just like the other picture....i wait a few seconds and have a much better shot IMHO.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Broken Arrow on March 28, 2014, 01:43:51 PM: or better to put it this way...I have been sitting in my tree stand and this bull comes in...i am at full draw. Does my mind right at that moment of the picture say "shoot"? I just cant visualize that i would not have the patience to wait for that better moment.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 02:52:18 PM: and by the way, shouldn't this be a picture of a spike?

:chuckle:

man the idea of being at full draw on a big bull like that :drool:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: JLS on March 28, 2014, 02:58:35 PM: Quote from: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 02:52:18 PM
and by the way, shouldn't this be a picture of a spike?

:chuckle:

man the idea of being at full draw on a big bull like that :drool:

This is on Mount Spokane :yike:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Rainier10 on March 28, 2014, 03:16:18 PM: Sitting at my desk I say wait for a better shot. I real life if I think this is the best it is going to get, I take either of the shots and probably lean towards JLS's shot placement.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 28, 2014, 03:16:54 PM: If it were on Mt Spokane, I'd wait for a bigger bull to come by :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on March 28, 2014, 05:40:00 PM: For the record, I would have shot by now and been working on field dressing, gutless method....... but for those who exercised a bit more patience and decided to wait a few more seconds. He just turned! Here's the new position. Please, mark your spot your arrow is heading to ;) Call me if you need help packing him out. RJ

Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg and add the marked up pic with your post.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: jrebel on March 28, 2014, 06:58:37 PM: Anywhere in the oval but the "X" is my choice shot.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: RadSav on March 28, 2014, 07:08:07 PM: I myself would not take the shot the way the OP presented it. Too much bone and probably a long blood trail unless I got lucky. A guy might get an arrow through all that bone, but the blades will be pretty dang dull once they hit the good stuff. No brush around so you only have to wait a moment and you will have a much better shot resulting in a short blood trail and easy recovery.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: RadSav on March 28, 2014, 07:10:10 PM: I'd definitely take Phantom's shot, but I'd hold a little higher and a little right of Jrebel's mark. I'd be trying to break the opposite shoulder right below the ball joint. I'd expect to watch that bull drop inside of 30 yards with that shot.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: stuckalot on March 28, 2014, 08:05:23 PM: RMEF app
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: stuckalot on March 28, 2014, 08:10:24 PM: Farther forward.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on March 28, 2014, 08:12:00 PM: Ha! See what you started jrebel. I downloaded the app on my phone also after I saw your post earlier today. It is pretty darn cool. RJ
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: jrebel on March 28, 2014, 08:16:37 PM: Quote from: Phantom16 on March 28, 2014, 08:12:00 PM
Ha! See what you started jrebel. I downloaded the app on my phone also after I saw your post earlier today. It is pretty darn cool. RJ

I can't download it....I don't have an Iphone....I use android. :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: stuckalot on March 28, 2014, 08:23:53 PM: And there is the much debated "no kill zone"! According to the app it's real!
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: RadSav on March 28, 2014, 09:01:39 PM: Quote from: RadSav on March 28, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
I myself would not take the shot the way the OP presented it. Too much bone and probably a long blood trail unless I got lucky. A guy might get an arrow through all that bone, but the blades will be pretty dang dull once they hit the good stuff. No brush around so you only have to wait a moment and you will have a much better shot resulting in a short blood trail and easy recovery.

Ooops, I thought this was in the bowhunting section :chuckle: With a rifle I'd take that shot in a heart beat. 325WSM right about the spot JLS marked :tup:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: montana44mag on March 28, 2014, 09:42:21 PM: with no risk of a face shot here, would anyone consider this shot? rifle? bow? muzzleloader? :dunno:
heart and ribs are delicious, but this would "ruin" a trophy, and it also might drop it right into that nasty wallow, considering that mud, Id probably go for heart and lungs, but in some scenarios I might take this controversial shot.
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: RadSav on March 28, 2014, 10:03:01 PM: Quote from: montana44mag on March 28, 2014, 09:42:21 PM
with no risk of a face shot here, would anyone consider this shot? rifle? bow? muzzleloader? :dunno:
heart and ribs are delicious, but this would "ruin" a trophy, and it also might drop it right into that nasty wallow, considering that mud, Id probably go for heart and lungs, but in some scenarios I might take this controversial shot.

Ever try to drag an elk out of a wallow? I've never shot one in a wallow but I have had a couple make to one before they went down. I would encourage folks to try and avoid that. Besides the fact it's usually full of rutting bull pee, it's not a whole lot of fun :chuckle:
Title: Re: Shoot or No Shot #2
Post by: Greg Mullins on April 03, 2014, 09:55:23 PM: FMJ 125 grain shuttle T Im shooting him in the head.His knees would him him in the chest and would still me in the same spot but dead.