Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: LongTatLaw on November 23, 2008, 01:25:42 AM

Title: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: LongTatLaw on November 23, 2008, 01:25:42 AM: Im looking for a 1 price for 3 uses gun.

Its got to be legal to hunt deer and elk in WA so I believe thats 24 cal.

Its got to come in a youth model!

I want a gun for my wife to use to hunt elk with (smallest Cal gun
that will do the job)

It needs to be the flatest shooter I can get!

I want it to be a mid range gun for say antelope because I dont have anything smaller than a 300 win mag

I want it to be a deer gun for say a 8 year old boy (not in wa but several states dont have the same age requirements)
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: MountainWalk on November 23, 2008, 01:32:38 AM: I would forget all of the above and get a 7x57 Mauser. Ruger makes a fine one. I believe also in a compact or ultra light model also.

The 7mm Mauser is one of our most underrated chamberings. It's kick is awefully mild, ammo cheap, better ammo choices than a 7mm 08, and we all know how deadly a 28 cal bullet is. The kick is nothing, and its a more sure killer of anything than the three listed above.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: LongTatLaw on November 23, 2008, 03:49:16 AM: mmm how does the kick compare to a 243? the kick is more important than the killing power...

its not for me...i like a big gun

I shot 90 lb GA bucks with a 180 g 300 win mag..

Here, these elk make me think 375 UM

The only guns of mine i ever shoot are a 300 wm and a marlin 444

I have a 308 with dust on it... which i believe a 7mm mauser and a 308 wouldnt be that far off...?? in kick?

The 308 is def more kick than desired...sooooo

Im looking for the best gun possible for flat longer range shooting that kicks like a 243?

you believe the 7mm mauser is there?

and they make it in a youth model? who does?
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: MountainWalk on November 23, 2008, 03:53:35 AM: Ruger. To me,(and everyone is different) the kick rates around a little less than a 25-06. Ruger makes a very fine compact ultralight.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: LongTatLaw on November 23, 2008, 04:01:44 AM: and the ballistics compared to a 243 and the 2506?

of the three...whats the flatest shooting at say 300 yards? :dunno:
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Slenk on November 23, 2008, 06:33:02 AM: 7mm-08 would be as good as any. Ammo is cheep to buy or reload. You can still find a Stevens for under $300.
Mine has shot 1" groups out to 300yds. off the bench, have not shot it farther. Also they come with a little shorter stock. 13" I think it was.

Slenk
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: MHWASH on November 23, 2008, 07:07:50 AM: Have to agree with Slenk on this one. Probably a little less kick than the 25-06. Also a lot better performer on elk than the .243. If this is for an inexperianced hunter, do the hunter and the elk a favor and forget the .243.

On a side note, I can't seem to find a age minimum for WA.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: 270Shooter on November 23, 2008, 07:41:38 AM: .260 or 7mm-08 in Remington model 7 action.
here is a link
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/youth/model_seven_youth.asp
Here is a link of premium ammo for the 7mm-08. Look at the barnes, Accubond, and partiton 140gr for elk.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx
Here is a link for .260 loads. Shoot the 140 corelocked ultra bonded for elk, you could use the 120 accutip for deer.
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/choose_specific_loads.aspx?c1=15&c2=&c3=
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Gutpile on November 23, 2008, 07:58:01 AM: Both of my daughters started shooting a .260 Ruger 77 MKII youth at 10 yrs old. I believe it'd be a great choice but ammo selection sucks. You'd need to reload. I'd like to pick up a .260 for myself someday but it's not a very common chambering. I'd also look at the 7mm-08 too but have no experience with that round. It's a common chambering.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: GEARHEAD on November 23, 2008, 08:01:08 AM: 7mm-08, never look back! mine has shot 9 bucks, all one shot kills, 6 dropped in their tracks, the other 3 fell within 25 yards. last three were at 306, 315 and 456 yards. these three were one shot drops. will work for elk as well, out to almost 300 yards, with the right bullet.
very flat, powerful and super low recoil. you'll throw that 300 away, so be careful.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: LongTatLaw on November 23, 2008, 08:30:54 AM: Gear...im positive Ill not trade down for my elk deer gun..although i mostly bow hunt them...gun for bear...

so...the 7mm-08 for a youth model falt shooter huh?

less kick than a 2506 an better than a 243??

thats what i am hearing

someone got a better vote?

Im completely ignorant to that round.

I will say I DO NOT RELOAD and maybe never will...

So I want something that every walmart has behind the counter with several options...and will be a 300 yard shooter with the standard 20$ box!!!

still saying 7mm 08?
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: 270Shooter on November 23, 2008, 08:40:32 AM: Ruger has the compact model that only wieghs 5 1/2 pounds :yike:
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=31&variation=Compact&bct=Yes&type=Rifle

By the way i would not use anything but premium bonded, partition, or X-bullets for elk. They will be worth the extra cost :twocents:.

If the ruger is too expensive then savage has a youth model too
http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire_home.htm
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: LongTatLaw on November 23, 2008, 09:01:36 AM: yeah...im probably gonna shy away from the ruger...just not gonna get enough use from it to spend 800+scope

ive owned a savage and didnt mind it...for light use might be a good option
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Gutpile on November 23, 2008, 09:09:08 AM: If you don't reload get the 7mm-08.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: GEARHEAD on November 23, 2008, 11:55:17 AM: Yes, i still say 7mm-08. i have only shot game with it, using factory hornady light magnum rounds. i shoot a 139gr SST for shots near and over 300 yards. i had pass throughs on two bucks at 315 and 456 yards. i also shoot the hornady btsp 139 gr. both rounds are at about 3000 fps. near 20 bucks a box, another consideration with less recoil even still and cheap but accurate is remington corelokt, about 20 bucks a box too.
as for the rifle, less rifle is less accuracy, yes i'm gonna get jumped for saying that. but i had the 7-08 first in a rem model 7 with a 20 inch barrel. could not do better than 2 inch groups, but was atleast very consistant. switched up to a 7-08 with a 24 inch barrel, and gained 100 fps, and doubled the accuracy with 1 inch groups. of course you cant have that accuracy without shooting stix or a bipod while in the field. good luck on your choices, ya probably got it narrowed down to a dozen now, lol.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: MountainWalk on November 23, 2008, 01:50:01 PM: Another point about the 7mm Mauser. You can buy mil surp rifles, carbine models for next to nothing. Real cheap quality rifles that you wont be afraid to ding up and give to a beginner. The ammo is quite cheap, cheaper than 7mm-08, and more readily available. I agree witht he comment about the 243 not being a great choice for new elk hunters. I have a soft spot for it, myself. All the above choices are good, but not as good an all around choice.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: AWS on November 23, 2008, 02:18:08 PM: The Stevens 200 in 7mm-08 is the best deal going. The stock is very easy to shorten or have shortenned and the are a number of inexpensive prefit fullsize stocks if you ever want to bring it back to fullsize.

AWS
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: jdb on November 23, 2008, 03:57:38 PM: I'd also say the 7mm08 and I am not trying to start trouble but I think ammo for it would be just as available, just as cheap, and just as plentiful.JB
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Sagedawg on November 23, 2008, 04:51:40 PM: I really like the 260 rem, but like has been said if your not a reloader, then its not the round for you. I 100% agree on the recommendation of the 7mm/08. That is a great round for a smaller framed shooter with great loads available from the factory. Plus you can sneek it out during elk season and have a sshorter rifle for sneeking in the timber with.

Sage
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: runningboard on November 23, 2008, 06:02:24 PM: My wife shoots a Rem Model 700 in 7-08, we both love it. I bought the youth model since she is 4'-11" and will never get any bigger and I sorta went different in that I had a new take-off in 7-08 I picked up at a gunshow for $60 and paid my smith to put it on and tune the new X-mark trigger to 3# and we got the shorter stock with the longer(24") barrel. Great cartridge, good luck with your search.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: high country on November 24, 2008, 12:24:27 AM: I would shy away from the 25/06 just because the barrel length. they are the undisputed velocity king of the rounds you listed, but it will be a heavier gun. 260, 243, 7/08, 257bob any of them are gonna be fine. pick one and get lots of practice in.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Kent Hunter on November 25, 2008, 05:32:48 PM: Tat. My vote is for the 7mm-08. More than a few choices both in make and bullet weights. You'll love it.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: jeff100 on November 26, 2008, 12:42:29 PM: Add me to the list of folks recommending the .260 Remington. I bought a Ruger M77 Compact in .260 Rem a couple of years ago, with the laminated stock, put a Leupold 3-9 Vari-X III on it with ranging reticle, and I consider this to be the perfect hunting rifle. I went with this combination as I have a very bad neck with multiple level fusion, and I can't take a lot of recoil anymore without suffering a lot and putting my last disc at risk. This cartridge has minimal felt recoil. I do a lot of load development and a lot of long distance shooting and have found this cartridge to be a very flat shooting and highly accurate round. The only downside is there's not much of a selection in commercial ammunition available...
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Gutpile on November 26, 2008, 06:04:17 PM: Jeff100, what load are you running? I've been useing 125grn partitions and have been very impressed.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Vek on November 28, 2008, 02:19:37 PM: Don't buy him something that he'll grow out of. I sort of loathe the notion of a "youth rifle".

Do you handload? If so, you can do some things to mimic the performance of milder cartridges with chamberings like the 280 or 308 or 30-06. In the case of the 308 or 30-06, you can use certain kinds of powder to drive a bullet meant for the slower 30-30 at 30-30 speeds, and 30-30 recoil levels. If you don't handload, take a look at Remington's factory-loaded "managed recoil" ammo - they offer it for a bunch of chamberings (270, 7-08, 7mm mag, 308, 30-06). Basically a slower, softer bullet meant to kill deer at 30-30 or 243 ranges (less than 200 yards or so).

I'd be looking for an older Remington ADL or Winchester 670 with a junky wood stock, and cut the stock down to whatever size he needs. Then, as he grows, keep your eye out for an aftermarket lightweight stock from McMillan or Bansner, and move him into that as he grows.

As for chambering, I'd get something that will kill elk without compromise. That means a 270, 7-08, 280, 308, or 30-06. 260 or 25-06 at a minimum.

I like the 280 and the 30-06.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: MountainWalk on November 28, 2008, 02:25:04 PM: I fully agree with the said above about "youth" rifles. I think we were having this sort of talk a few months ago. Kids dont stay small forever. I still say the best compromise is a 7mauser. It doesnt get much mention, but it will kill everything you need to, cheaply and without kick. After doing some checking, even the 7mm-08 doesnt have many more loads than the old 7. Besides, like Vek said, you can buy old, perfectly functional, dinged up rifles for a song. A kids first gun shouldnt be a fine walnut stocked gun anyhow.

To me, a kid should first hunt with irons and learn the basics before giving him another thing that could, might, might not, who knows, fail him.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: LongTatLaw on November 29, 2008, 03:01:30 AM: Its settled!

Im getting the Stevens Model 200 in 7mm08 8)

I like the ballistics on it and as I dont reload and maybe never will...this has decent options for factory ammo.

I know this is already a shorter rifle with a 22 inch barrel... but, where is a good place to have a few inches chopped off of the stock?

I live in Olymia but will travel if theres just no where near olympia to get it done?

whats should expect to pay for such a service? 20$ 100$ ?

I bet there is someone commenting on here that could do a fine job for me for a reasonable fee???? I wonder if catwithboost can? he is pretty handy

------------

FYI the rifle is really for my wife.
But I have two boys babies still that will need a good starter rifle in like 6 years...I wanted something my wife wont mind the kick from...and she is kick shy after an unexpected shock while shooting my 300 win mag and 444.

I do wonder how much felt recoil difference there will be between this 7mm08 and my stevens 308???

Thanks for all the help guys.
Title: Re: youth Rifle - 243/25-06/257 what?
Post by: Slenk on November 29, 2008, 06:29:02 AM: Go on E-bay and by a takeoff from a savage Model 10 in a Youth stock.
Cheaper in the long run.
Slenk