Post by: ffbowhunter on April 09, 2014, 03:10:32 PM
Post by: buglin4bulls on April 09, 2014, 04:02:56 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on April 09, 2014, 04:03:24 PM
Post by: Halo on April 09, 2014, 05:42:05 PM
Post by: gasman on April 09, 2014, 06:03:31 PM
And I have used all three ;)
:twocents:
Post by: BigD on April 09, 2014, 06:31:59 PM
http://www.lithiadodgetricities.com/new/Ram/2014-Ram-2500-tri-cities-90cb87110a0a00de1abd187440d3022d.htm (http://www.lithiadodgetricities.com/new/Ram/2014-Ram-2500-tri-cities-90cb87110a0a00de1abd187440d3022d.htm)
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 09, 2014, 06:40:11 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 09, 2014, 06:52:04 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Post by: HuntandFish on April 09, 2014, 07:14:01 PM
Regards,
H&F
Post by: jrebel on April 09, 2014, 07:18:02 PM
Post by: Bofire on April 09, 2014, 07:19:26 PM
Carl
Post by: gonehuntin68 on April 09, 2014, 07:31:24 PM
I would agree that the new ford diesel is a powerhouse.....it will be a force to be reckoned with if it proves it self for a few more years. I want to see what kind of mileage they get when they are 10+ years old. :tup:
Huh, we have a couple of these at work and they are weak, lack a ton of power, and sway all over the road.
Post by: jrebel on April 09, 2014, 07:38:02 PM
I would agree that the new ford diesel is a powerhouse.....it will be a force to be reckoned with if it proves it self for a few more years. I want to see what kind of mileage they get when they are 10+ years old. :tup:
Huh, we have a couple of these at work and they are weak, lack a ton of power, and sway all over the road.
We have one that is not loaded at all and never tows anything. It will down right smoke the rubber off the tires if you are not careful. It has a ton of power....but again that is unloaded and never tows.
We are talking about the 6.7 liter scorpion engine right????? The 6.0 and 6.4 are gutless wonders and have tons of problems.
Post by: buglebuster on April 09, 2014, 07:48:59 PM
I would agree that the new ford diesel is a powerhouse.....it will be a force to be reckoned with if it proves it self for a few more years. I want to see what kind of mileage they get when they are 10+ years old. :tup:
Huh, we have a couple of these at work and they are weak, lack a ton of power, and sway all over the road.
We have one that is not loaded at all and never tows anything. It will down right smoke the rubber off the tires if you are not careful. It has a ton of power....but again that is unloaded and never tows.
We are talking about the 6.7 liter scorpion engine right????? The 6.0 and 6.4 are gutless wonders and have tons of problems.
I know... I had one for 2 months :bash: :bash: bad part was I traded in my 7.3 with 120k on it for it. Now I sit in a 06 f150 as happy as can be
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 09, 2014, 08:14:07 PM
Post by: HuntandFish on April 09, 2014, 08:16:15 PM
I would agree that the new ford diesel is a powerhouse.....it will be a force to be reckoned with if it proves it self for a few more years. I want to see what kind of mileage they get when they are 10+ years old. :tup:
Huh, we have a couple of these at work and they are weak, lack a ton of power, and sway all over the road.
I am assuming they are chassis cabs? Because the consumer rigs are not, short on power! And the suspension is great! Chassis cabs have a de-tuned engine and different suspension, I have driven both and they are night and day difference. So don't let your work truck guide you on a standard super duty performance.
I don't know what a Chevy or dodge chassis cabs are like compared to there consumer market trucks. Because no one buys them :chuckle:
Regards,
H&F
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 09, 2014, 08:16:52 PM
Why someone has not bought this is beyond me. If I needed a rig I would be on this like stink on pooooo....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Its a twenty year old rig with less power then a present day 1/2 ton gasser at 50% of the price of a new 1/2 ton gas.
Post by: jrebel on April 09, 2014, 08:21:49 PM
Why someone has not bought this is beyond me. If I needed a rig I would be on this like stink on pooooo....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Its a twenty year old rig with less power then a present day 1/2 ton gasser at 50% of the price of a new 1/2 ton gas.
For the price that rig will tow anything and last another 20 years. It was obviously well taken care of. I would gladly pay 12-13K for this truck and save 30K that I would be spending on a new one. :twocents:
Fantastic truck.
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 09, 2014, 08:30:50 PM
Isn't it funny how everyone has this need for more and more power and are always happy to brag if they have one of the big three that happens to be on top that year and they say the power is needed for safety or whatever yet *censored* has been getting towed for decades with 200hp or less and less then half the torque of current dieselsWhy someone has not bought this is beyond me. If I needed a rig I would be on this like stink on pooooo....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Its a twenty year old rig with less power then a present day 1/2 ton gasser at 50% of the price of a new 1/2 ton gas.
For the price that rig will tow anything and last another 20 years. It was obviously well taken care of. I would gladly pay 12-13K for this truck and save 30K that I would be spending on a new one. :twocents:
Fantastic truck.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 09, 2014, 08:39:44 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on April 09, 2014, 08:48:01 PM
Why someone has not bought this is beyond me. If I needed a rig I would be on this like stink on pooooo....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Its a twenty year old rig with less power then a present day 1/2 ton gasser at 50% of the price of a new 1/2 ton gas.
You are clueless if you think a new half ton could out pull that 7.3. :yike:
Post by: Slimdog350 on April 09, 2014, 08:53:38 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 09, 2014, 09:05:07 PM
Why someone has not bought this is beyond me. If I needed a rig I would be on this like stink on pooooo....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Its a twenty year old rig with less power then a present day 1/2 ton gasser at 50% of the price of a new 1/2 ton gas.
You are clueless if you think a new half ton could out pull that 7.3. :yike:
That year 7.3L had 425lb-ft of torque a new eco boost has 420lb-ft. The ford 6.2L has 434 of torque. Those old power strokes were gutless stock. Can they be pumped up sure.
Post by: Come Get Some on April 09, 2014, 09:09:04 PM
Having said that I have owned an 06/ 6.0 liter. I sold it back to the dealership in 2012 for 28k. It had 85,000 miles on it. I had trouble from the start with the EGr and oil cooler. Would not own one again if you gave me one for free. I traded up for a 2012 F450 6.7 Scorpion. WOW. Best truck I have ever owned. It has a 4.3 gear ratio in the rear end and 400 horsepower stock. I get 18 MPG on the freeway with a low rear end gear ratio. I tow a 46Ft goosneck boat trailer with a 25,000 lb boat on it. My load is 38,000 Lbs. The truck does not know it is there. Turns sharper than any other full sized truck on the market. I asked the mechanic I have known at the Ford dealership for over 12 years what kind of problems thay have had with the new motor. He said other than changing the oil he has never had to work on one. They came out in 2010. I have never had a truck that was so responsive and easy to drive. I also tow a gooseneck trailer with 10 tons of hay over the pass 8-10 times a year. How fast do you want to go. Both of my sons have a 2013 and a 2014 F350. They both have a 3.5 rear gear ratio. They are both getting between 22-25 MPG on the highway. There is not any other brand of truck on the market that you can work as hard as a Ford and have it last. The Dodge trucks have terrible brake life and no top end power. The Chevy trucks( I have always been a chevy guy until I bought my first ford) Are plush ,but if you work them as hard as a Ford they fall apart. The chevy has an allison 1000 transmission. The new Ford has a Allison 3000 Transmission. I get 80,000+ miles out of the brakes on my Fords. The doors do not sag at all even at 400,000 miles like a chevy door does at 100,000 miles The Dodge trucks can not be driven at slow speeds for very long or you have to take them out on the highway and blow them out. 3 buddies have new ones and do not like them. You can not buy a tougher more dependable truck with more stock horsepower and better towing capacity or a sharper turning radius Than the new Ford F series. Not just my opinion a proven fact. I do not get passed by any other truck on the highway. Especially if they have any load at all.
Post by: Come Get Some on April 09, 2014, 09:18:22 PM
Why someone has not bought this is beyond me. If I needed a rig I would be on this like stink on pooooo....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Its a twenty year old rig with less power then a present day 1/2 ton gasser at 50% of the price of a new 1/2 ton gas.
You are clueless if you think a new half ton could out pull that 7.3. :yike:
That year 7.3L had 425lb-ft of torque a new eco boost has 420lb-ft. The ford 6.2L has 434 of torque. Those old power strokes were gutless stock. Can they be pumped up sure.
My 1999 F350 7.3 has a ton of power STOCK and 400,000 miles on it. At 300,000 I checked the bearings at there was only .010 of an inch of wear. Great mileage and bulletproof. I dare anyone to find any other (STOCK) diesel truck out there with 400,000 miles than can hold up to my F350 . Original Turbo. The only thing I have replaced was the Tranny at 275,000 and injectors at 300,000.
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 09, 2014, 09:22:29 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on April 09, 2014, 09:33:48 PM
They will run damn near forever and they have plenty of power but besides doing it at a lower rpm they don't have any more power then the biggest gas engines available from any of the big truck brands.
You are right about diesels running forever, but wrong about a gas pot having the same power. :sry:
Post by: HuntandFish on April 09, 2014, 09:36:55 PM
They will run damn near forever and they have plenty of power but besides doing it at a lower rpm they don't have any more power then the biggest gas engines available from any of the big truck brands.
Sorry but you can't be more wrong....yikes!
Regards,
H&F
Post by: KFhunter on April 09, 2014, 09:36:56 PM
2nd turbo
50HP DDP sticks
#10 fuel plate
3k GSP
timing turned up a little, 16.5*
3rd transmission. Stock tranny had convertor slippage, rebuilt it HD - then an input shaft broken. 3rd tran rebuild was my fault I had a cooler line break. Now it has mag tek deep transmission pan, and external oil cooler w fan.
4" turbo back w/ high flow muffler
2 wheel bearings on the front
tie rod ends rebuilt twice, now it has upgraded arms.
new power steering pump with a bracket to stop torque
got some other bracket for steering too but I can't remember what it is - truck finally steers and drives awesome.
KDP
front/rear main seals
Now I need more air, the air filter minder guage will suck almost into the red now, when stock it wouldn't budge even with a packrat nest in the airbox :chuckle: (true story)
lot of other crap done to it too, but it still beats a new truck payment :tup:
1995 12V, I bought it used in 1998 and had it paid off by 2000. Makes 14 years of no truck payment :party1:
She sure runs good, and I'd take it to Alaska tomorrow with a bobcat on the gooseneck. Best of all if I break down I know every part on that truck.
If N Korea EMP's the USA I expect the truck value to skyrocket, so it's an investment :tung:
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 09, 2014, 09:40:12 PM
They will run damn near forever and they have plenty of power but besides doing it at a lower rpm they don't have any more power then the biggest gas engines available from any of the big truck brands.
You are right about diesels running forever, but wrong about a gas pot having the same power. :sry:
Well how is having the same torque numbers wrong. Get a truck with same gear ratio and same torque they should tow very close to the same. I have towed with a stock 7.3 and have towed with many gas motors the 7.3 is a dog compared to new engines. Not trying to say the 7.3 is a bad engine cause we all know its one of the best diesels ever made but anyone who trys to say they are power houses stock hasn't driven many newer trucks.
Post by: HuntandFish on April 09, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
I bought the first new style 7.3 /350 diesel truck in Washington state. It has 400,000 mileso on it and drives great. I have pulled everything you can put behind a truck and it has never let me down. I can go to Redding California on 3/4 of a tank of fuel.
Having said that I have owned an 06/ 6.0 liter. I sold it back to the dealership in 2012 for 28k. It had 85,000 miles on it. I had trouble from the start with the EGr and oil cooler. Would not own one again if you gave me one for free. I traded up for a 2012 F450 6.7 Scorpion. WOW. Best truck I have ever owned. It has a 4.3 gear ratio in the rear end and 400 horsepower stock. I get 18 MPG on the freeway with a low rear end gear ratio. I tow a 46Ft goosneck boat trailer with a 25,000 lb boat on it. My load is 38,000 Lbs. The truck does not know it is there. Turns sharper than any other full sized truck on the market. I asked the mechanic I have known at the Ford dealership for over 12 years what kind of problems thay have had with the new motor. He said other than changing the oil he has never had to work on one. They came out in 2010. I have never had a truck that was so responsive and easy to drive. I also tow a gooseneck trailer with 10 tons of hay over the pass 8-10 times a year. How fast do you want to go. Both of my sons have a 2013 and a 2014 F350. They both have a 3.5 rear gear ratio. They are both getting between 22-25 MPG on the highway. There is not any other brand of truck on the market that you can work as hard as a Ford and have it last. The Dodge trucks have terrible brake life and no top end power. The Chevy trucks( I have always been a chevy guy until I bought my first ford) Are plush ,but if you work them as hard as a Ford they fall apart. The chevy has an allison 1000 transmission. The new Ford has a Allison 3000 Transmission. I get 80,000+ miles out of the brakes on my Fords. The doors do not sag at all even at 400,000 miles like a chevy door does at 100,000 miles The Dodge trucks can not be driven at slow speeds for very long or you have to take them out on the highway and blow them out. 3 buddies have new ones and do not like them. You can not buy a tougher more dependable truck with more stock horsepower and better towing capacity or a sharper turning radius Than the new Ford F series. Not just my opinion a proven fact. I do not get passed by any other truck on the highway. Especially if they have any load at all.
:yeah:
:yeah:
:yeah:
I own a 2013 f-350 6.7l....I used to own a 1999-f250 7.3L, I used to think that was the best truck ever until I bought this truck! I tow daily and you can't beat it! Anybody that actually uses a truck for more than a toy will agree with the statements above.
Regards,
H&F
Post by: KFhunter on April 09, 2014, 09:48:02 PM
Post by: DRENALINJUNKIE on April 09, 2014, 09:55:40 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 09, 2014, 09:57:07 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 09, 2014, 09:58:01 PM
If NKorea EMP's the US you'll be begging for an old 12V P-pump :hello:
:chuckle:
I miss my '98 12 valve.
But I really like my '02, '05 and '07 too.
I bought the '02 just because I had to have the devil - a VP with an auto. :o
Post by: Bullkllr on April 09, 2014, 10:00:28 PM
Post by: Come Get Some on April 10, 2014, 04:50:02 AM
I've driven a couple of gas Fords with the 460- seemed like more than enough power to pull anything- but you're looking at single-digits for mileage I believe.Single digits EMPTY and not nearly as much power as my 7.3. My brother had a BRAND NEW 460. My 7.3 was brand new. We went to NEah Bay. He towed my 30' trailer and I towed my boat. My load was twice as heavy. Not only did I leave him on the hills, I also got twice the mileage.
We have purchased 9 Diesel trucks since February of 98. We still own 8 of them. The only one I do not have is the piece of junk 6.0 liter.Ford did change motors from 2003 to 2010 .They tried the 6.0 and the 6.4/ Both made by Navistar. Both junk. The 7.3 was bullet proof. No other manufacturer has had the same great results with a diesel. The cummins motor has been good. But they have never had top end HP or pull and still do not. The 6.7 is quiet,strong and very economical. The body of the Ford truck is the longest lasting on the market. Brakes and transmissions have also been the most dependable. All of the manufacturers have had problems with their rearends and front ends(dodge Chevy) Although some of the gas motors do have alot of HP they do not have the same torque and effecency as deisels. They do not pull the same or last as long with vry little problems. If that were true you woulld see gas motore in commercial fishing boats as well.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 10, 2014, 06:26:54 AM
Post by: bhawley76 on April 10, 2014, 07:18:37 AM
Post by: Skillet on April 10, 2014, 07:46:46 AM
Ford did change motors from 2003 to 2010 .They tried the 6.0 and the 6.4/ Both made by Navistar. Both junk. The 7.3 was bullet proof. No other manufacturer has had the same great results with a diesel.
The 7.3 Powerstroke is a Navistar motor too... so were the 6.9 IDI and the 7.3 IDI motors that preceeded it. Ford used IH/Navistar engines from 1982 through the end of the 6.4, whenever that was.
Navistar doesn't build junk. It was the questionable engineering by both companies to take what was originally a solid industrial diesel design and make it compete on power output in the "torque wars" while passing emissions. Navistar had a v-6 commercial diesel based on the 6.0 called the VT265 that has a reputation as a solid engine.
I have a 2006 6.0 and like it. Been pretty problem free for me other than the standard issues. It is "bone stock" and haven't paid a penny out of my pocket for breakdowns or anything else above routine maintenance. I watch it closely for signs of trouble, but haven't seen them yet. Been a good truck, plenty of power (4.10's help) and gets great mileage.
Post by: baker5150 on April 10, 2014, 08:39:43 AM
The price for new diesel trucks is obscene, look for the best used diesel out there. Which is the 06 gmc/Chevy duramax/ Allison. It will pull anything, dependable and you don't have to shut it off to talk to people!
We ran these exact rigs at work for 3 or 4 years. GARBAGE.... that's all I can say. The power trains held up ok on a few, but the rest of the trucks could not hold up at all. Thin sheet metal, sub-par paint. thin cheap plastics, nothing but issues from day one. These were not fleet rigs either. LT's and LTZ"s
We had 2 that went into limp mode every couple weeks for no reason at all. No code or nothing. Dealer couldn't figure it out either. Just started throwing parts at it. They never did get it fixed, we traded them in before the warranty was up.
I will never buy a chevy until they up their standard of quality.
They did ride nice thou.
Post by: Halo on April 10, 2014, 09:03:42 AM
Post by: baker5150 on April 10, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
The only limp mode issue I have had with my 07 Duramax or heard of is when I got some questionable diesel and loaned it to my lead footed daughter :chuckle: to run an errand for me. When they got back she said it isn't as fast as the truck she usually drives, I gave them a lecture about incriminating themselves like that :chuckle: and didn't think much more about it, until I got on the freeway and it smokes like a chimney and wont get to speed. A fuel filter latter and being more careful where I fuel and no problem. I guess it is not that uncommon for the dicey diesel/ lead foot combo to suck the guts out of the fuel filter putting it in limp mode whenever you mash pedal it even with a relatively new filter. Now I carry a spare fuel filter and have not had another problem. I do have a 2nd lead footed daughter with a drivers license now though. :chuckle:
This was actual limp mode, The trucks wouldn't go past 25mph, Defueled like crazy. Stealership was totally clueless without a code.
Post by: DRobnsn on April 10, 2014, 09:08:51 AM
I will say this if you take a look around you when running up and down I-5 you will notice that almost every single one of the guys that haul 3-4 cars up and down the highway for a living will be driving a Dodge with a Cummins.
Also stop in at a truck stop and walk around looking under the hoods you won't find many v-8's under the hood of a big rig. Almost all of them run I-6's for a reason.
Having said that these trucks are meant to pull heavy for life. Its a different world when it comes to a daily driver/tow rig but its still something to think about when your spending this kind of money.
Also if you don't plan on modding the truck or if you simply can't for emissions reasons you need to pay close attention to what kind of emissions controls the truck has. Trucks with UREA/DEF and DPF tend to be more reliable and get much better mileage than the trucks that only come with a DPF. One thing it seems that allot of people don't realize is Ford and Dodge that have the DPF system use what some call a late injection event. What that does is inject fuel into the cylinder at an appropriate time to start the catalyst in the DPF to burn off the DPF's buildup. Unfortunately this also causes cylinder wash down and diesel to build up in the oil, if this is left alone and oil is not changed and sampled on a regular basis you can kiss your 300k mile engine life goodbye!!! The Duramax with dpf uses a separate injector in the exhaust system to burn off the dpf which is a much better idea IMHO. Either way DPF alone kills fuel economy.
Another thing to look into is which of the 3 has the biggest EGR system failures from what I have seen Ford has had the biggest issue with coolers and valves over the other two. Something to consider also is a programmer when your warranty is up to turn off the EGR system. EGR is BAD BAD BAD for a diesel engine life expectancy!
Do your research on the dedicated internet forums for each model. Make a list for each that has potential problems with things to look for when buying used or new some of the forums have a place specifically for this and members have lists already made up you just need to search for them. To me it would be time well spent when spending 40k with the potential price of repairs within the life of the truck.
Post by: ffbowhunter on April 10, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
Post by: Bofire on April 10, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
all 4X4.
Chevrolet 2500-3500 diesel; 2003-2008 rated Average, 2011 worse than aveage, 2012 rated much better than average.
Dodge 2500-3500 Diesel; 2003 worse than average, 2004-6 average, 2007-9 much worse than average, 2010-11 worse than average, 2012 average.
Ford F250-F350 Diesel; 2003 average, 2004 worse than average, 2005-11 Much worse than average, 2012 average.
I will throw in the Tundra although it is Gas; V8 4X4; 2003 much better than average, 2004 better than average, 2005 much better than average, 2006-8 better than average, 2009-10 much better, 2011-12 better, 2013 average.
hope all the info helps you, lots of it on this thread.
Carl
Post by: Halo on April 10, 2014, 10:42:01 AM
Ya, mine was actual limp mode too, and it sucks, I had images of me pulling my trailer through Nowhere Wyoming like that at 90 degrees with 2 elk in the back, (hence the spare filter now). I'm not sure my mechanic even checked the codes, he told me what it was over the phone when I called him and had me back on the road in minutes.The only limp mode issue I have had with my 07 Duramax or heard of is when I got some questionable diesel and loaned it to my lead footed daughter :chuckle: to run an errand for me. When they got back she said it isn't as fast as the truck she usually drives, I gave them a lecture about incriminating themselves like that :chuckle: and didn't think much more about it, until I got on the freeway and it smokes like a chimney and wont get to speed. A fuel filter latter and being more careful where I fuel and no problem. I guess it is not that uncommon for the dicey diesel/ lead foot combo to suck the guts out of the fuel filter putting it in limp mode whenever you mash pedal it even with a relatively new filter. Now I carry a spare fuel filter and have not had another problem. I do have a 2nd lead footed daughter with a drivers license now though. :chuckle:
This was actual limp mode, The trucks wouldn't go past 25mph, Defueled like crazy. Stealership was totally clueless without a code.
Post by: DRobnsn on April 10, 2014, 10:45:57 AM
I figured I would open up Pandora's box...thanks for the advice y'all. Continuing my research then will pull the trigger and post up what I got.
I personally am very interested in what you end up deciding. I'm sort of in the market myself. It would be awesome if you could report back with your purchase and why you went the way you did. Sounds like we would be using the truck in a very similar manner. Best of luck on your search, I'm sure it will be exhausting but will be well worth it.
Post by: Halo on April 10, 2014, 10:58:31 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on April 10, 2014, 03:16:15 PM
Its hard to get non-biased info on this topic, It seems everyone has their brand loyalty. Myself, I have no brand loyalty in this area at all, I'll jump ship in a minute for better reliability, performance & value. Done it before and will likely do it again.
Right now in my driveway I have a Ford, Chevy, and Dodge pickup...all mine...no diesels though. Can't be a lot of people around that can say that. I should qualify that by saying the Dodge is worn out and a non-runner, and the Chevy is my rebuild project.
Post by: Come Get Some on April 10, 2014, 05:24:40 PM
Ford did change motors from 2003 to 2010 .They tried the 6.0 and the 6.4/ Both made by Navistar. Both junk. The 7.3 was bullet proof. No other manufacturer has had the same great results with a diesel.
The 7.3 Powerstroke is a Navistar motor too... so were the 6.9 IDI and the 7.3 IDI motors that preceeded it. Ford used IH/Navistar engines from 1982 through the end of the 6.4, whenever that was.
Navistar doesn't build junk. It was the questionable engineering by both companies to take what was originally a solid industrial diesel design and make it compete on power output in the "torque wars" while passing emissions. Navistar had a v-6 commercial diesel based on the 6.0 called the VT265 that has a reputation as a solid engine.
I have a 2006 6.0 and like it. Been pretty problem free for me other than the standard issues. It is "bone stock" and haven't paid a penny out of my pocket for breakdowns or anything else above routine maintenance. I watch it closely for signs of trouble, but haven't seen them yet. Been a good truck, plenty of power (4.10's help) and gets great mileage.
I realize the 7.3 is Navistar. I did not say Navistar is junk, I said the 6.0 is junk. Find a dealer that will not agree with that and they do not sell trucks. There is very few dealerships that will take one in take one in on trade if so give very much for it. They can't sell them in used condition. If you got one that has no trouble you got lucky and probably do not work it hard. I have heard of a few that have been alright, Those that are do not get used as a superduty. More like a everyday driving to work vehicle. There are class action lawsuits in regards to the 6.0 Liter. Every manufacturer in the owrld who turns over alot of different prodl have a lemon now and again. Even a masarati,jaguar,BMW, Mercedes. None are exempt. I have owned chevy's all of my life. The fords DO last longer and hold up better if you work them HARD. Chevy trucks are plush,quiet and very nice to drive, Just do not put them to work doing alot of heavy towing and keep door pins and bushings handy.
Post by: Skillet on April 10, 2014, 11:04:13 PM
I believe the 6.0 is one of the best bargains out there in the used truck market, since people don't understand the simple fixes to make them reliable and Ford dodged responsibility for the real Issues by thowing just enough parts at them to get them through the warranty. As long as the headbolts haven't stretched yet due to gross negligence, they are typically good engines in great trucks that can often be had for far less than they are really worth. A few $$ in upgrades makes them a steal in comparison to a dodge cummins truck.
Post by: iusmc2002 on April 11, 2014, 02:19:16 AM
Its hard to get non-biased info on this topic, It seems everyone has their brand loyalty. Myself, I have no brand loyalty in this area at all, I'll jump ship in a minute for better reliability, performance & value. Done it before and will likely do it again.
Right now in my driveway I have a Ford, Chevy, and Dodge pickup...all mine...no diesels though. Can't be a lot of people around that can say that. I should qualify that by saying the Dodge is worn out and a non-runner, and the Chevy is my rebuild project.
:tup: I'm with you on this. A '96 Dodge Ram, an '02 GMC Sierra with the 6.6L and an '04 Ford Excursion with the 6.0L. No brand loyalty for me. Although, with my personal experiences, if Dodge made a truck that had an interior like my GMC, I would never buy another brand because I loved my '92 CTD. Inside of the new Dodge's feel/looks cheap and is pretty uncomfortable. I sat in the back while the wife drove several of them, and they were terribly uncomfortable and since I didn't like it, I wasn't going to force my kids to sit back there for long drives across the state. The GMC seats are the best ones I've ridden in and the kids don't mind them.
I don't pull much more than a quad on a trailer with any of my vehicles. Occasionally, a 20 and 22 foot flatbed, and loaded down with stuff from the house, the Duramax didn't even seem to know they were there. Haven't pulled anything with the Excursion yet.
I don't need the power/torque from my diesels very often, but when I want it, I have it and that's nice to know.
Post by: baker5150 on April 11, 2014, 07:52:51 AM
I may have gotten lucky, but I think It has more to do with the fact I do all maintenance myself religiously, pay attention and don't believe every half-baked opinion I read on the net put there by people who make unfounded assumptions to support them. I have a car for daily driving, my truck is for towing, long runs and hauling.
I believe the 6.0 is one of the best bargains out there in the used truck market, since people don't understand the simple fixes to make them reliable and Ford dodged responsibility for the real Issues by thowing just enough parts at them to get them through the warranty. As long as the headbolts haven't stretched yet due to gross negligence, they are typically good engines in great trucks that can often be had for far less than they are really worth. A few $$ in upgrades makes them a steal in comparison to a dodge cummins truck.
Isn't that the issue with these Motors? You are relying on them being perfectly maintained by the previous owner.
For the amount of money I don't think I would take anyone's word for it. I know of 3 guys who have had head issues with these trucks, and it cost them a fortune to fix. Much more than if they would have just bought a different truck in the first place.
Post by: JohnVH on April 11, 2014, 08:01:20 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2FOther%2FDuralemon-headgasket-job%2Fi-Xs5FMvn%2F0%2FL%2FIMG_2109-L.jpg&hash=a273173bce6b0e8fbd39d80a1fac478b6c495f29)
Sold it a few months later and have never been happier, Ive had two cummins since, and wont go back. Look at the hotshot guys, you don't see them driving anything but a cummins typically (we ship a lot of equipment at my work)
Post by: trophyhunt on April 11, 2014, 08:05:19 AM
garbage, that's funny!The price for new diesel trucks is obscene, look for the best used diesel out there. Which is the 06 gmc/Chevy duramax/ Allison. It will pull anything, dependable and you don't have to shut it off to talk to people!
We ran these exact rigs at work for 3 or 4 years. GARBAGE.... that's all I can say. The power trains held up ok on a few, but the rest of the trucks could not hold up at all. Thin sheet metal, sub-par paint. thin cheap plastics, nothing but issues from day one. These were not fleet rigs either. LT's and LTZ"s
We had 2 that went into limp mode every couple weeks for no reason at all. No code or nothing. Dealer couldn't figure it out either. Just started throwing parts at it. They never did get it fixed, we traded them in before the warranty was up.
I will never buy a chevy until they up their standard of quality.
They did ride nice thou.
Post by: STED9r on April 15, 2014, 04:56:26 PM
Ford did change motors from 2003 to 2010 .They tried the 6.0 and the 6.4/ Both made by Navistar. Both junk. The 7.3 was bullet proof. No other manufacturer has had the same great results with a diesel.
The 7.3 Powerstroke is a Navistar motor too... so were the 6.9 IDI and the 7.3 IDI motors that preceeded it. Ford used IH/Navistar engines from 1982 through the end of the 6.4, whenever that was.
Navistar doesn't build junk. It was the questionable engineering by both companies to take what was originally a solid industrial diesel design and make it compete on power output in the "torque wars" while passing emissions. Navistar had a v-6 commercial diesel based on the 6.0 called the VT265 that has a reputation as a solid engine.
I have a 2006 6.0 and like it. Been pretty problem free for me other than the standard issues. It is "bone stock" and haven't paid a penny out of my pocket for breakdowns or anything else above routine maintenance. I watch it closely for signs of trouble, but haven't seen them yet. Been a good truck, plenty of power (4.10's help) and gets great mileage.
I realize the 7.3 is Navistar. I did not say Navistar is junk, I said the 6.0 is junk. Find a dealer that will not agree with that and they do not sell trucks. There is very few dealerships that will take one in take one in on trade if so give very much for it. They can't sell them in used condition. If you got one that has no trouble you got lucky and probably do not work it hard. I have heard of a few that have been alright, Those that are do not get used as a superduty. More like a everyday driving to work vehicle. There are class action lawsuits in regards to the 6.0 Liter. Every manufacturer in the owrld who turns over alot of different prodl have a lemon now and again. Even a masarati,jaguar,BMW, Mercedes. None are exempt. I have owned chevy's all of my life. The fords DO last longer and hold up better if you work them HARD. Chevy trucks are plush,quiet and very nice to drive, Just do not put them to work doing alot of heavy towing and keep door pins and bushings handy.
My god.....I work on these every day, along with a fleet of GM products. The 6.0 isn't junk. Damn, it just gets old listening to those that go by rumors and band wagons, the friggen sheep herd is huge.
The 6.0 has issues that are Ford related, not international always. Its a confusing engine to most. Its an engine that needs PROPER maintenance, Jifffy lube and oil can Henry's isn't proper maint.
The motor was designed to operate within a certain curve, Ford upped it some and then a handful of the aftermarket manufactures made bolt on power adders for a portion of the populace that do not have any clue how to operate any diesel engine, in any platform.
I can throw problems with the gm diesel for every one that's throw for the 6.0.
If I had a 6.0, pulled the egr system off, added a tuner, pulled vantage hill with 10k on the bumper at 70mph, didn't maintain the simple fluids with correct fluids, didn't spend the monies to get the various modules updated and the damn thing broke, it would be my fault for treating it like a gassed rig and just being a plain ignorant fool.
Many places take 6.0 in on trade, those that do actually spend some time to see if previous owner was a hack, if that owner was it goes to the wholesale lo and if not it gets sold.
And, compare heui to piezzo injectors before trashing one over anothe, almost as equal as comparing a 1960's carbed 283 to a z4 engine.
Buy a 6.0 off a manufacturer lot, not some truck super store down the street.The manufacturer lots sell probable problems to a wholesaler and are bought by car lots.
Post by: DRobnsn on April 15, 2014, 05:19:22 PM
Ford did change motors from 2003 to 2010 .They tried the 6.0 and the 6.4/ Both made by Navistar. Both junk. The 7.3 was bullet proof. No other manufacturer has had the same great results with a diesel.
The 7.3 Powerstroke is a Navistar motor too... so were the 6.9 IDI and the 7.3 IDI motors that preceeded it. Ford used IH/Navistar engines from 1982 through the end of the 6.4, whenever that was.
Navistar doesn't build junk. It was the questionable engineering by both companies to take what was originally a solid industrial diesel design and make it compete on power output in the "torque wars" while passing emissions. Navistar had a v-6 commercial diesel based on the 6.0 called the VT265 that has a reputation as a solid engine.
I have a 2006 6.0 and like it. Been pretty problem free for me other than the standard issues. It is "bone stock" and haven't paid a penny out of my pocket for breakdowns or anything else above routine maintenance. I watch it closely for signs of trouble, but haven't seen them yet. Been a good truck, plenty of power (4.10's help) and gets great mileage.
I realize the 7.3 is Navistar. I did not say Navistar is junk, I said the 6.0 is junk. Find a dealer that will not agree with that and they do not sell trucks. There is very few dealerships that will take one in take one in on trade if so give very much for it. They can't sell them in used condition. If you got one that has no trouble you got lucky and probably do not work it hard. I have heard of a few that have been alright, Those that are do not get used as a superduty. More like a everyday driving to work vehicle. There are class action lawsuits in regards to the 6.0 Liter. Every manufacturer in the owrld who turns over alot of different prodl have a lemon now and again. Even a masarati,jaguar,BMW, Mercedes. None are exempt. I have owned chevy's all of my life. The fords DO last longer and hold up better if you work them HARD. Chevy trucks are plush,quiet and very nice to drive, Just do not put them to work doing alot of heavy towing and keep door pins and bushings handy.
My god.....I work on these every day, along with a fleet of GM products. The 6.0 isn't junk. Damn, it just gets old listening to those that go by rumors and band wagons, the friggen sheep herd is huge.
The 6.0 has issues that are Ford related, not international always. Its a confusing engine to most. Its an engine that needs PROPER maintenance, Jifffy lube and oil can Henry's isn't proper maint.
The motor was designed to operate within a certain curve, Ford upped it some and then a handful of the aftermarket manufactures made bolt on power adders for a portion of the populace that do not have any clue how to operate any diesel engine, in any platform.
I can throw problems with the gm diesel for every one that's throw for the 6.0.
If I had a 6.0, pulled the egr system off, added a tuner, pulled vantage hill with 10k on the bumper at 70mph, didn't maintain the simple fluids with correct fluids, didn't spend the monies to get the various modules updated and the damn thing broke, it would be my fault for treating it like a gassed rig and just being a plain ignorant fool.
Many places take 6.0 in on trade, those that do actually spend some time to see if previous owner was a hack, if that owner was it goes to the wholesale lo and if not it gets sold.
And, compare heui to piezzo injectors before trashing one over anothe, almost as equal as comparing a 1960's carbed 283 to a z4 engine.
Buy a 6.0 off a manufacturer lot, not some truck super store down the street.The manufacturer lots sell probable problems to a wholesaler and are bought by car lots.
I'd love to see side by side comparison list of the problems GM Duramax and Ford 6.0l had in the same era. Just for my own personal knowledge.
I'd also like to ask, would you buy a 6.0l Ford in good condition bone stock form knowing you could not do any of the repairs on it yourself? I understand you can but just imagine your the guy that can't do the repairs on these trucks would you still buy the 6.0 over the others?
Post by: jrebel on April 15, 2014, 08:51:08 PM
Post by: demontang on April 16, 2014, 07:31:22 AM
Post by: STED9r on April 16, 2014, 10:42:37 AM
Its funny I know of lots of 6.0 that have lasted :dunno: my father in law had 3 and all of them hit 300k with no major problems. I have see others that where chipped that had to have head studs put in and egr problems. I looked into them a lot and from what I have learned is keep good fuel in them and dont hot rod them. If your going to be hard on them throw the head stids in and upgrade the egr first. :twocents:Bingo!!!!!!!
Post by: STED9r on April 16, 2014, 11:05:04 AM
To many variables and various issues to compare, they're designed, fabricated, build, used and maintained by a human, its going to fail. They all have they're own issues.Ford did change motors from 2003 to 2010 .They tried the 6.0 and the 6.4/ Both made by Navistar. Both junk. The 7.3 was bullet proof. No other manufacturer has had the same great results with a diesel.
The 7.3 Powerstroke is a Navistar motor too... so were the 6.9 IDI and the 7.3 IDI motors that preceeded it. Ford used IH/Navistar engines from 1982 through the end of the 6.4, whenever that was.
Navistar doesn't build junk. It was the questionable engineering by both companies to take what was originally a solid industrial diesel design and make it compete on power output in the "torque wars" while passing emissions. Navistar had a v-6 commercial diesel based on the 6.0 called the VT265 that has a reputation as a solid engine.
I have a 2006 6.0 and like it. Been pretty problem free for me other than the standard issues. It is "bone stock" and haven't paid a penny out of my pocket for breakdowns or anything else above routine maintenance. I watch it closely for signs of trouble, but haven't seen them yet. Been a good truck, plenty of power (4.10's help) and gets great mileage.
I realize the 7.3 is Navistar. I did not say Navistar is junk, I said the 6.0 is junk. Find a dealer that will not agree with that and they do not sell trucks. There is very few dealerships that will take one in take one in on trade if so give very much for it. They can't sell them in used condition. If you got one that has no trouble you got lucky and probably do not work it hard. I have heard of a few that have been alright, Those that are do not get used as a superduty. More like a everyday driving to work vehicle. There are class action lawsuits in regards to the 6.0 Liter. Every manufacturer in the owrld who turns over alot of different prodl have a lemon now and again. Even a masarati,jaguar,BMW, Mercedes. None are exempt. I have owned chevy's all of my life. The fords DO last longer and hold up better if you work them HARD. Chevy trucks are plush,quiet and very nice to drive, Just do not put them to work doing alot of heavy towing and keep door pins and bushings handy.
My god.....I work on these every day, along with a fleet of GM products. The 6.0 isn't junk. Damn, it just gets old listening to those that go by rumors and band wagons, the friggen sheep herd is huge.
The 6.0 has issues that are Ford related, not international always. Its a confusing engine to most. Its an engine that needs PROPER maintenance, Jifffy lube and oil can Henry's isn't proper maint.
The motor was designed to operate within a certain curve, Ford upped it some and then a handful of the aftermarket manufactures made bolt on power adders for a portion of the populace that do not have any clue how to operate any diesel engine, in any platform.
I can throw problems with the gm diesel for every one that's throw for the 6.0.
If I had a 6.0, pulled the egr system off, added a tuner, pulled vantage hill with 10k on the bumper at 70mph, didn't maintain the simple fluids with correct fluids, didn't spend the monies to get the various modules updated and the damn thing broke, it would be my fault for treating it like a gassed rig and just being a plain ignorant fool.
Many places take 6.0 in on trade, those that do actually spend some time to see if previous owner was a hack, if that owner was it goes to the wholesale lo and if not it gets sold.
And, compare heui to piezzo injectors before trashing one over anothe, almost as equal as comparing a 1960's carbed 283 to a z4 engine.
Buy a 6.0 off a manufacturer lot, not some truck super store down the street.The manufacturer lots sell probable problems to a wholesaler and are bought by car lots.
I'd love to see side by side comparison list of the problems GM Duramax and Ford 6.0l had in the same era. Just for my own personal knowledge.
I'd also like to ask, would you buy a 6.0l Ford in good condition bone stock form knowing you could not do any of the repairs on it yourself? I understand you can but just imagine your the guy that can't do the repairs on these trucks would you still buy the 6.0 over the others?
I work on them in a fleet environment, not a dealer. They 6.0 is yesterdays technology replaced by the 6.4 and 6.7. In all reality, the 6.0 is cheaper and easier to fix, no different then a 7.3 idi is cheaper and easier than a 6.0.
I personally like the early 6.0. Has the good round fin, round tubed egr coolers, straight High press oil rail, better hpop, no stand pipes and slightly higher compression. But, the injectors were failure prone, early turbo had a bushing issue, ficm soldering issues, gp harness was impossible to remove, orange egr cooler hose failed often and down pipe fitment issues.
I have an 03' and all those items have been taken care of. Have 140k on stock head studs, run a tuner BUT, mirrors get usedto watch the exhaust pipe and when black smoke starts the foot rolls off the throttle. Yes it cost some to get new inj and I'm 100% sure I'll be putting studs in it at some point.
Really bad thing on Chevs, the cost of emission parts replacement. They are by far more finicky to long idle times and are a maint nightmare. But, nice smooth power, quiet and ride like a car. But then again, utilizing rubber jounces on the front end to add spring rate is one odd assed deal. Replace those about every 20k.
Post by: huntnphool on April 16, 2014, 11:16:22 AM
:hello:I dare anyone to find any other (STOCK) diesel truck out there with 400,000 miles than can hold up to my F350 . Original Turbo. The only thing I have replaced was the Tranny at 275,000 and injectors at 300,000.Why someone has not bought this is beyond me. If I needed a rig I would be on this like stink on pooooo....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,150478.msg1998304.html#msg1998304)
Its a twenty year old rig with less power then a present day 1/2 ton gasser at 50% of the price of a new 1/2 ton gas.
You are clueless if you think a new half ton could out pull that 7.3. :yike:
That year 7.3L had 425lb-ft of torque a new eco boost has 420lb-ft. The ford 6.2L has 434 of torque. Those old power strokes were gutless stock. Can they be pumped up sure.
Post by: cohoho on April 16, 2014, 06:41:44 PM
I'd love to see side by side comparison list of the problems GM Duramax and Ford 6.0l had in the same era. Just for my own personal knowledge.
My 2006 Duramax has 250K, replaced injectors and that well is about all, oil change at every 3K, got a sweet oil change for life thrown in by Lithia of Alaska when I bought it.. Figure 60+ oil changes for free - hello - no wonder that dealer hates me when I show up...
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 16, 2014, 06:43:14 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on April 16, 2014, 08:34:09 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on April 16, 2014, 08:45:40 PM
I'd love to see side by side comparison list of the problems GM Duramax and Ford 6.0l had in the same era. Just for my own personal knowledge.
My 2006 Duramax has 250K, replaced injectors and that well is about all, oil change at every 3K, got a sweet oil change for life thrown in by Lithia of Alaska when I bought it.. Figure 60+ oil changes for free - hello - no wonder that dealer hates me when I show up...
Love my 06 Duramax with the LBZ engine. One of the most sought after diesels on the market.173,000 and runs like a champ. Almost always 18 mpg just running around. Hand calculated. Was really disapointed my last tank though. Got 16 mpg. Wont get fuel at that place anymore. Front hubs and an alternator are the only things replaced on it. Besides regular maintenance. Its rare for the LBZ to have an injector or head gasket issue like some of the earlier model Dmaxs. Love the ride, comfort, quietness and power of it!