Post by: Tony on April 10, 2014, 04:05:11 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on April 10, 2014, 04:14:14 PM
In spite of what all the internet wannabe dealers will say you do not have to have a bill of sale or get copies of ID CPL etc.
Post by: Fowlweather25 on April 10, 2014, 04:27:23 PM
Post by: Fowlweather25 on April 10, 2014, 04:27:49 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 10, 2014, 07:13:05 PM
Someone asks me for my permit or drivers license for a private sale, they can go pound sand and sell it to someone else. Because their getting neither from me.
Post by: ghosthunter on April 10, 2014, 07:30:21 PM
What kind of pistol?
:yeah:
Post by: couesbitten on April 10, 2014, 08:06:28 PM
they can go pound sand and sell it to someone else. Because their getting neither from me.
:yeah: I don't really want my federal government tracking me, so if by buying privately I can avoid that, I will. In this case, I'm with Biggerhammer, not interested in providing my identity.
Post by: Easy-E on April 10, 2014, 08:28:03 PM
Post by: Blacklab on April 10, 2014, 08:30:39 PM
Post by: netcoyote on April 10, 2014, 08:36:50 PM
they can go pound sand and sell it to someone else. Because their getting neither from me.
:yeah: I don't really want my federal government tracking me, so if by buying privately I can avoid that, I will. In this case, I'm with Biggerhammer, not interested in providing my identity.
Can't speak for others, but in my opinion, it's not about federal government tracking. If I sell a handgun, I have no intention of filling out any transfer paperwork. We both agree that we don't want to facilitate government tracking. What I want is to have some assurance that the person buying has some documentation to indicate that they are a) US citizen, b) WA resident, c) not a felon. Simply asking for a driver's license, CPL, military or LEO ID, or WAC membership would go a long way to convincing me the buyer is legit. I'd never sleep at night if I learned that a gun I sold was used in a crime. Asking for ID is no guarantee that won't happen but it goes a long way to prove "due diligence". Tell me to pound sand and you will walk away without a gun.
Post by: Bridger81 on April 10, 2014, 08:55:59 PM
Post by: fareliz on April 10, 2014, 09:03:31 PM
Post by: TVHunts on April 10, 2014, 09:06:10 PM
they can go pound sand and sell it to someone else. Because their getting neither from me.
:yeah: I don't really want my federal government tracking me, so if by buying privately I can avoid that, I will. In this case, I'm with Biggerhammer, not interested in providing my identity.
Can't speak for others, but in my opinion, it's not about federal government tracking. If I sell a handgun, I have no intention of filling out any transfer paperwork. We both agree that we don't want to facilitate government tracking. What I want is to have some assurance that the person buying has some documentation to indicate that they are a) US citizen, b) WA resident, c) not a felon. Simply asking for a driver's license, CPL, military or LEO ID, or WAC membership would go a long way to convincing me the buyer is legit. I'd never sleep at night if I learned that a gun I sold was used in a crime. Asking for ID is no guarantee that won't happen but it goes a long way to prove "due diligence". Tell me to pound sand and you will walk away without a gun.
I am with you netcoyote, I feel it is horribly irresponsible as a legal gun owner to not know the guy or gal you are selling to is not a felon. I believe you can be held responsible if they were a felon and you sold it to them knowingly or unknowingly and they committed a crime. I don't want your information, I just want to see picture ID that matches the CPL. Otherwise you can't know they aren't a felon. Not worth the chance to unload a weapon...no pun intended!
Post by: mountainman on April 10, 2014, 09:20:34 PM
agreed! A bill of sale will protect you from any type of hassle from the ATF in the case of said firearm being used in a felony. When it is tracked to your door, it is good to have a bill of sale in hand, if nothing more then to avoid a hassle with the feds...there is also a personal transfer that can be filled out that will take the ha dgun out of your ownership so they will not even knock on your door...me, i would rather avoid the hassle, and yes, always good to grab some documentation to be sure the buyer IS allowed to own a firearm..due diligence.....they can go pound sand and sell it to someone else. Because their getting neither from me.
:yeah: I don't really want my federal government tracking me, so if by buying privately I can avoid that, I will. In this case, I'm with Biggerhammer, not interested in providing my identity.
Can't speak for others, but in my opinion, it's not about federal government tracking. If I sell a handgun, I have no intention of filling out any transfer paperwork. We both agree that we don't want to facilitate government tracking. What I want is to have some assurance that the person buying has some documentation to indicate that they are a) US citizen, b) WA resident, c) not a felon. Simply asking for a driver's license, CPL, military or LEO ID, or WAC membership would go a long way to convincing me the buyer is legit. I'd never sleep at night if I learned that a gun I sold was used in a crime. Asking for ID is no guarantee that won't happen but it goes a long way to prove "due diligence". Tell me to pound sand and you will walk away without a gun.
I am with you netcoyote, I feel it is horribly irresponsible as a legal gun owner to not know the guy or gal you are selling to is not a felon. I believe you can be held responsible if they were a felon and you sold it to them knowingly or unknowingly and they committed a crime. I don't want your information, I just want to see picture ID that matches the CPL. Otherwise you can't know they aren't a felon. Not worth the chance to unload a weapon...no pun intended!
:tup:
Post by: jackelope on April 10, 2014, 10:21:13 PM
Is it illegal to private sell a handgun in Washington to someone who is not a Washington resident?
If any firearms crosses state lines via a sale, it had to be transferred through a FFL holder. Pistol or rifle.
Post by: goosegetter79 on April 11, 2014, 05:45:04 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 11, 2014, 07:32:28 AM
Post by: h2ofowlr on April 11, 2014, 07:40:01 AM
Is it illegal to private sell a handgun in Washington to someone who is not a Washington resident?
If any firearms crosses state lines via a sale, it had to be transferred through a FFL holder. Pistol or rifle.
A pistol does, but I don't believe a rifle has to. I have purchased several long guns from Fisherman's and Dick's in Oregon. I was able to pick them up at the store. The two handguns I purchased had to be transferred to one of the FFL contacts on Vancouver and transferred over. They also charged an additional $12 or $15 dollars for that.
Post by: netcoyote on April 11, 2014, 08:18:07 AM
Ha! Nothing like firearms owners applying more regulation on their selves.
Quite the contrary. Nobody here is looking for more regulations. By showing that you are exercising some responsibility in who you transfer a firearm to you are, in reality, potentially AVOIDING more regulations. Selling a gun to someone who goes out and commits a crime and then is traced back to you is just feeding into the hands of anti-gunners who would use this as demonstrating a need for tighter controls.
Even if the gun does not get traced back to you...wouldn't you feel bad about this? Maybe someone was killed and it could have been avoided if you had taken the time to check out the buyer?
Post by: jackelope on April 11, 2014, 08:27:31 AM
Is it illegal to private sell a handgun in Washington to someone who is not a Washington resident?
If any firearms crosses state lines via a sale, it had to be transferred through a FFL holder. Pistol or rifle.
A pistol does, but I don't believe a rifle has to. I have purchased several long guns from Fisherman's and Dick's in Oregon. I was able to pick them up at the store. The two handguns I purchased had to be transferred to one of the FFL contacts on Vancouver and transferred over. They also charged an additional $12 or $15 dollars for that.
But you bought them from an FFL(I assume those stores you mentioned were FFL holders) and ownership didn't change hands when you crossed state lines.
If you bought those rifles from a store online and had them shipped, they'd have to be shipped to a FFL holder, private sale or through a dealer. If you were in state lines, I can sell you a gun, you can pay me and I can mail it right to your front door.
I'm not sure what you got in Oregon was legal either, but I'm not 100% either way. Maybe because they were a FFL holder, and you were there in person, that's ok. If I lived in Oregon and you lived in Washington and I sold you a gun in person(private sale), I'm 99% sure it would have to be transferred through a FFL holder in WA, which is where your buddy in Vancouver comes into play.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 11, 2014, 08:35:28 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on April 11, 2014, 08:47:32 AM
Quote
9.41.080
Delivery to ineligible persons.
No person may deliver a firearm to any person whom he or she has reasonable cause to believe is ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm. Any person violating this section is guilty of a class C felony, punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
Post by: TVHunts on April 11, 2014, 12:18:01 PM
Ha! Nothing like firearms owners applying more regulation on their selves.
Really?
First, I respect your opinion and your knowledge of firearms. I typically agree with most everything I have read that you have posted on this site.
But, lets say I sell my handgun to Joe crackhead who hides his habit real well. He also has a list of robberies, assualt etc. as long as my arm. I don't know or care about that because I want my money from the gun sale right? Now, Joe Crackhead takes the handgun and shoots your child, grandchild, or someone close to you. You would feel I was justified in the sale of that gun to Joe?
Thats the reason I personally wouldn't sell a handgun to anyone without seeing both forms of valid ID. It protects me and, others I don't even know. Bolt action rifles I am a lot more relaxed about. In my eyes it is not a regulation, just plain common sense and taking my right of gun ownership serious and responsibly.
Post by: mountainman on April 11, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
Post by: mountainman on April 11, 2014, 09:12:12 PM
:yeah:Ha! Nothing like firearms owners applying more regulation on their selves.
Quite the contrary. Nobody here is looking for more regulations. By showing that you are exercising some responsibility in who you transfer a firearm to you are, in reality, potentially AVOIDING more regulations. Selling a gun to someone who goes out and commits a crime and then is traced back to you is just feeding into the hands of anti-gunners who would use this as demonstrating a need for tighter controls.
Even if the gun does not get traced back to you...wouldn't you feel bad about this? Maybe someone was killed and it could have been avoided if you had taken the time to check out the buyer?
Post by: bigsads on April 11, 2014, 09:22:36 PM
I make up 2 bill of sales with gun info, name, model, and serial #. Then date an sign put in a safe that's it. Just for my own benefit
I do this as well, just for my own records, and if for some reason dude tries to come back and say that I stole it, etc
Post by: mountainman on April 12, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
Ha! Nothing like firearms owners applying more regulation on their selves.no added regulation..nothing being registered to the feds..just eyeball the info to help verify..bill of sale is not a prob, and should be no problem for anyone legal to own..just help guarantee those who should NOT have a gun, doesn'nt get one from me..!!
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 12, 2014, 07:48:44 PM
Post by: mountainman on April 12, 2014, 08:56:59 PM
good point Bigsads...I make up 2 bill of sales with gun info, name, model, and serial #. Then date an sign put in a safe that's it. Just for my own benefit
I do this as well, just for my own records, and if for some reason dude tries to come back and say that I stole it, etc
Heck, I know of types that can't even get the federal paper work right. Wouldn't want to confuse the heck out of them by adding a private sale trauma.the Feds arent involved with a face to face transfer. Private sales are just that..no federal paperwork..just smart to keep your bases covered when you sell to someone you dont know is all...
Post by: stevemiller on April 12, 2014, 09:10:44 PM
4 years ago I got a call from an ATF agent asking about a pistol I had sold a year previous. I gave him the name and phone number of the guy I had sold it to, it was a friend of a friend that I knew and evidently he had sold it to someone else. The whole time I was talking to him in the back of my mind all I could think about was it was used in a robbery or shooting so I asked him and he just said that a felon who wasn't suppose to have guns had it. You never know.How did they put you with said handgun to begin with,After 4 years?I wont sell,Will always get the info from seller or I wont buy it.It is also a felony to buy from a prohibited person is it not?
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 12, 2014, 09:26:48 PM
Post by: stevemiller on April 12, 2014, 09:46:46 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 12, 2014, 09:56:20 PM
I completely understand where you are coming from biggerhammer,let me ask you this,IF somone used a firearm for something lets just say illegal and you are caught with it somehow wouldn't you want a name to go with it,or are you good with just taking the rap?Whether you did anything wrong or not you will have to answer for the guns past.
This could drag out forever and a 747 could drop out of the sky on any of us tomorrow?
Post by: stevemiller on April 12, 2014, 10:03:29 PM
Post by: mountainman on April 12, 2014, 10:08:18 PM
yep,and you could be found guilty of posession of a stolen firearm and not even know it.exactly..