Post by: bigtex on April 18, 2014, 11:46:59 AM
by admin on Apr 17, 2014 • 2:18 pm No Comments
By Marcy Stamper
A recent policy interpretation by the forest supervisor allowing ATVs to use roads in the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest “is unlawful and should be reversed immediately,” argue two environmental organizations in a letter to the supervisor, Mike Balboni.
In a letter sent last week to Balboni, the Methow Valley Citizens’ Council (MVCC) and Conservation Northwest contend that Balboni’s interpretation that a new state law makes all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) “highway-legal vehicles” for the purpose of forest roads is in error.
The two groups, which successfully sued Okanogan County last year over two ordinances allowing ATVs on hundreds of miles of county roads, advance some of the same arguments in this instance—that an analysis of conditions on individual roads and the opportunity for public input are necessary before ATVs can be permitted to use the roads.
“The direction Supervisor Balboni gave earlier remains,” said Robin DeMario, public affairs specialist for the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest. “We are waiting for input and more discussion from the regional office.”
A copy of the letter was sent to the regional forester and the Pacific Northwest Regional Office has been following the situation.
“We are not at a point where a decision [about ATV use] has been made —we are still evaluating the impacts in the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest,” said Shoni Pilip-Florea, director of public and legislative affairs for the Pacific Northwest Region.
The regional office provides policy and guidance to the 17 national forests in the Northwest, working collaboratively with line officers and taking into account local needs from a land-management perspective, said Pilip-Florea.
When Balboni’s interpretation was issued three weeks ago, agency spokespersons explained that, because the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest has no regulation clearly prohibiting ATVs, there is no legal means to enforce a policy prohibiting the vehicles. Moreover, the Okanogan-Wenatchee does not have a motor vehicle use map showing every road and the types of vehicles that can use it. These maps govern road and vehicle use in each national forest, they explained.
Noting that the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest is in the process of analyzing its road system as part of the nationwide Travel Management process, MVCC and Conservation Northwest contend that to reverse management direction “without any written directive or explanation, mixed use analysis, or public process … is an arbitrary and capricious exercise of authority.”
MVCC and Conservation Northwest argue that restrictions in state law prohibiting ATVs from using any road with a speed limit above 35 miles per hour differentiates ATVs from regular motor vehicles. The law includes provisions for licenses for ATVs that have had specified safety upgrades.
In their letter, the groups quote statements issued by the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest shortly after the law went into effect last July that said the state law “does not allow general operation of wheeled ATVs on all public roads in the state … Therefore, ATVs are not highway-legal vehicles under agency policy.”
MVCC and Conservation Northwest ask Balboni to reaffirm that state law does not change policy barring ATVs from roads in the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest. They say they do not oppose the operation of ATVs on appropriate Forest Service roads after the proper analysis and public input.
The regional office is still evaluating the overall impact of Washington’s ATV law statewide to see if further discussion about its interpretation is necessary, said Pilip-Florea. “We continue to have meetings and are hopeful we will have a solid interpretation and guidelines in the next couple of weeks,” she said.
“At this point in time, the vehicles that are street-legal can ride on those roads that are open to motor vehicles,” said DeMario. She added that if roads are snowy or muddy, the Forest Service encourages people not to drive on them to prevent resource damage.
Balboni will respond directly to MVCC and Conservation Northwest, said DeMario.
http://methowvalleynews.com/2014/04/17/environmental-groups-challenge-forest-service-atv-stance/ (http://methowvalleynews.com/2014/04/17/environmental-groups-challenge-forest-service-atv-stance/)
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 18, 2014, 11:50:38 AM
Thanks BT.
Post by: bigtex on April 18, 2014, 11:53:44 AM
Close the roads, ATV groups threaten to sue. Open the roads, environmental groups threaten to sue.
And we wonder why things never get done....
Post by: Kittman on April 18, 2014, 12:04:31 PM
Post by: snowpack on April 18, 2014, 12:16:27 PM
Quote
They say they do not oppose the operation of ATVs on appropriate Forest Service roads after the proper analysis and public input.Uh huh....sure they don't... :rolleyes:
Post by: washelkhunter on April 18, 2014, 12:29:26 PM
QuoteThey say they do not oppose the operation of ATVs on appropriate Forest Service roads after the proper analysis and public input.
Sounds reasonable to me. I know that I would like to go on the record publicly in this matter. :tup:
Post by: MtnMuley on April 18, 2014, 01:25:34 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2014, 06:48:13 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
Being hot, sweaty and breathing hard is really the suck when you get lightly dusted with even a slow moving ATV
I'm polite and courteous right up to the point they throw something at me, or attempt to hit me with a ski pole then it's game on
Post by: timberfaller on April 18, 2014, 11:24:07 PM
They slowly moved in and took over, plus with all the greenies in the USFS they've had a easy go of getting all they've wanted.
Gotta figure out how to get wolves and cats to eat spandex!! problem solved!! :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2014, 11:30:15 PM
For those who aren't aware, there are a whole lot of "Granola" crunchers living now in the Methow Valley :bash:
They slowly moved in and took over, plus with all the greenies in the USFS they've had a easy go of getting all they've wanted.
Gotta figure out how to get wolves and cats to eat spandex!! problem solved!! :chuckle:
:puke:
I take it back - there's no pleasing those types.
Post by: timberfaller on May 17, 2014, 08:57:19 PM
https://col129.mail.live.com/mail/ViewOfficePreview.aspx?messageid=mgP3Aw0S_e4xGKMWw75adL5A2&folderid=flinbox&attindex=0&cp=-1&attdepth=0&n=19209554
Looking for "technicality's" means outside pressure is being applied! :bash:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on May 18, 2014, 11:22:41 AM
"Sue and settle" strikes again eh?
Post by: JLS on May 18, 2014, 11:57:36 AM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2014, 12:45:54 AM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
:yeah: Only going to worsen the problem.
Post by: Kittman on May 19, 2014, 09:34:59 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on May 19, 2014, 11:45:18 AM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Post by: JLS on May 19, 2014, 12:10:18 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Don't let me stand in your 'Merican right to get offended and act spitefully to someone you don't even know.
Post by: MtnMuley on May 19, 2014, 12:27:52 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Don't let me stand in your 'Merican right to get offended and act spitefully to someone you don't even know.
No offended at all. Just making a factual statement on your quote of "I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image". Does that make sense?
Post by: JLS on May 19, 2014, 12:34:22 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Don't let me stand in your 'Merican right to get offended and act spitefully to someone you don't even know.
No offended at all. Just making a factual statement on your quote of "I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image". Does that make sense?
No, it doesn't. You are expecting friendly behavior from someone you don't know. Sure, they should return it. However, if they don't is really no reason to then act towards them in a spiteful and mean manner.
My comment about being offended was directed at you. You are allowing yourself to get offended at someone that is acting in the way you expect them to. In turn, you dust them or do whatever.
Act however you wish to, it's a free country. However, it's juvenile and does nothing to help your cause. Obviously you've forgotten or choose not to apply the Golden Rule to your own behavior.
Edit: As a side note, I don't own an ATV and likely never will. However, I fully support the use of them and think it should be expanded in this state. Actions by people like you will do absolutely nothing to garner support from the rest of the public.
Post by: MtnMuley on May 19, 2014, 03:30:50 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Don't let me stand in your 'Merican right to get offended and act spitefully to someone you don't even know.
No offended at all. Just making a factual statement on your quote of "I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image". Does that make sense?
No, it doesn't. You are expecting friendly behavior from someone you don't know. Sure, they should return it. However, if they don't is really no reason to then act towards them in a spiteful and mean manner.
My comment about being offended was directed at you. You are allowing yourself to get offended at someone that is acting in the way you expect them to. In turn, you dust them or do whatever.
Act however you wish to, it's a free country. However, it's juvenile and does nothing to help your cause. Obviously you've forgotten or choose not to apply the Golden Rule to your own behavior.
Edit: As a side note, I don't own an ATV and likely never will. However, I fully support the use of them and think it should be expanded in this state. Actions by people like you will do absolutely nothing to garner support from the rest of the public.
Thanks for your concern towards my actions. I was taught to treat others how you would like to be treated. Therefore, If I brake and politely pass ANYBODY and they choose to snub me or say anything rude, you can bet I will happily dust them out the next time we pass. Everytime. :)
Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2014, 04:39:45 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Don't let me stand in your 'Merican right to get offended and act spitefully to someone you don't even know.
No offended at all. Just making a factual statement on your quote of "I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image". Does that make sense?
No, it doesn't. You are expecting friendly behavior from someone you don't know. Sure, they should return it. However, if they don't is really no reason to then act towards them in a spiteful and mean manner.
My comment about being offended was directed at you. You are allowing yourself to get offended at someone that is acting in the way you expect them to. In turn, you dust them or do whatever.
Act however you wish to, it's a free country. However, it's juvenile and does nothing to help your cause. Obviously you've forgotten or choose not to apply the Golden Rule to your own behavior.
Edit: As a side note, I don't own an ATV and likely never will. However, I fully support the use of them and think it should be expanded in this state. Actions by people like you will do absolutely nothing to garner support from the rest of the public.
Thanks for your concern towards my actions. I was taught to treat others how you would like to be treated. Therefore, If I brake and politely pass ANYBODY and they choose to snub me or say anything rude, you can bet I will happily dust them out the next time we pass. Everytime. :)
I'm just curious, what if you get dusted out by someone with a similar attitude, then what happens next? Is this how road rage occurs? Just something to think about!
Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2014, 04:50:15 PM
Environmental groups challenge USFS ATV stance
by admin on Apr 17, 2014 • 2:18 pm No Comments
By Marcy Stamper
A recent policy interpretation by the forest supervisor allowing ATVs to use roads in the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest “is unlawful and should be reversed immediately,” argue two environmental organizations in a letter to the supervisor, Mike Balboni.
In a letter sent last week to Balboni, the Methow Valley Citizens’ Council (MVCC) and Conservation Northwest contend that Balboni’s interpretation that a new state law makes all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) “highway-legal vehicles” for the purpose of forest roads is in error.
The two groups, which successfully sued Okanogan County last year over two ordinances allowing ATVs on hundreds of miles of county roads, advance some of the same arguments in this instance—that an analysis of conditions on individual roads and the opportunity for public input are necessary before ATVs can be permitted to use the roads.
“The direction Supervisor Balboni gave earlier remains,” said Robin DeMario, public affairs specialist for the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest. “We are waiting for input and more discussion from the regional office.”
A copy of the letter was sent to the regional forester and the Pacific Northwest Regional Office has been following the situation.
“We are not at a point where a decision [about ATV use] has been made —we are still evaluating the impacts in the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest,” said Shoni Pilip-Florea, director of public and legislative affairs for the Pacific Northwest Region.
The regional office provides policy and guidance to the 17 national forests in the Northwest, working collaboratively with line officers and taking into account local needs from a land-management perspective, said Pilip-Florea.
When Balboni’s interpretation was issued three weeks ago, agency spokespersons explained that, because the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest has no regulation clearly prohibiting ATVs, there is no legal means to enforce a policy prohibiting the vehicles. Moreover, the Okanogan-Wenatchee does not have a motor vehicle use map showing every road and the types of vehicles that can use it. These maps govern road and vehicle use in each national forest, they explained.
Noting that the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest is in the process of analyzing its road system as part of the nationwide Travel Management process, MVCC and Conservation Northwest contend that to reverse management direction “without any written directive or explanation, mixed use analysis, or public process … is an arbitrary and capricious exercise of authority.”
MVCC and Conservation Northwest argue that restrictions in state law prohibiting ATVs from using any road with a speed limit above 35 miles per hour differentiates ATVs from regular motor vehicles. The law includes provisions for licenses for ATVs that have had specified safety upgrades.
In their letter, the groups quote statements issued by the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest shortly after the law went into effect last July that said the state law “does not allow general operation of wheeled ATVs on all public roads in the state … Therefore, ATVs are not highway-legal vehicles under agency policy.”
MVCC and Conservation Northwest ask Balboni to reaffirm that state law does not change policy barring ATVs from roads in the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest. They say they do not oppose the operation of ATVs on appropriate Forest Service roads after the proper analysis and public input.
The regional office is still evaluating the overall impact of Washington’s ATV law statewide to see if further discussion about its interpretation is necessary, said Pilip-Florea. “We continue to have meetings and are hopeful we will have a solid interpretation and guidelines in the next couple of weeks,” she said.
“At this point in time, the vehicles that are street-legal can ride on those roads that are open to motor vehicles,” said DeMario. She added that if roads are snowy or muddy, the Forest Service encourages people not to drive on them to prevent resource damage.
Balboni will respond directly to MVCC and Conservation Northwest, said DeMario.
http://methowvalleynews.com/2014/04/17/environmental-groups-challenge-forest-service-atv-stance/ (http://methowvalleynews.com/2014/04/17/environmental-groups-challenge-forest-service-atv-stance/)
Post your thoughts about this on the recreation task force website, motorized access is an issue being discussed: http://www.engageoutdoorwashington.com/ (http://www.engageoutdoorwashington.com/)
Post by: JLS on May 19, 2014, 04:58:26 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Don't let me stand in your 'Merican right to get offended and act spitefully to someone you don't even know.
No offended at all. Just making a factual statement on your quote of "I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image". Does that make sense?
No, it doesn't. You are expecting friendly behavior from someone you don't know. Sure, they should return it. However, if they don't is really no reason to then act towards them in a spiteful and mean manner.
My comment about being offended was directed at you. You are allowing yourself to get offended at someone that is acting in the way you expect them to. In turn, you dust them or do whatever.
Act however you wish to, it's a free country. However, it's juvenile and does nothing to help your cause. Obviously you've forgotten or choose not to apply the Golden Rule to your own behavior.
Edit: As a side note, I don't own an ATV and likely never will. However, I fully support the use of them and think it should be expanded in this state. Actions by people like you will do absolutely nothing to garner support from the rest of the public.
Thanks for your concern towards my actions. I was taught to treat others how you would like to be treated. Therefore, If I brake and politely pass ANYBODY and they choose to snub me or say anything rude, you can bet I will happily dust them out the next time we pass. Everytime. :)
Do whatever you want, it's a free country. All your actions do is reflect the kind of person you are.
Me, I know I can't control anyone else, but I can control myself. I'd rather look in the mirror knowing that I acted with grace and kindness instead of vengefulness and vindication.
YMMV.
Post by: rtspring on May 19, 2014, 04:59:01 PM
I wonder if these "Granola" groups are the same individuals I see riding bicycles in the forest during last deer season. They did not seem very friendly when I waved to them while I was riding my "Street Legal" dual sport motorcycle past them during hunting. Very interesting.
LOL, I dust the hell out of rude bikers in the Methow Valley. Friendly and courteous the first time, but if I get a snood, you can bet your a$$ that I'll intentionally pass by a couple times "on plane". ;)
I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image.
If I'm friendly to you and you aren't friendly to me in my neck of the woods, you can bet your arse that I the next time we meet there will be no courtesy. Fact. I'll never kiss anybody's arse to create a "good image":)
Don't let me stand in your 'Merican right to get offended and act spitefully to someone you don't even know.
No offended at all. Just making a factual statement on your quote of "I'm sure that goes a long way to establish a good image". Does that make sense?
No, it doesn't. You are expecting friendly behavior from someone you don't know. Sure, they should return it. However, if they don't is really no reason to then act towards them in a spiteful and mean manner.
My comment about being offended was directed at you. You are allowing yourself to get offended at someone that is acting in the way you expect them to. In turn, you dust them or do whatever.
Act however you wish to, it's a free country. However, it's juvenile and does nothing to help your cause. Obviously you've forgotten or choose not to apply the Golden Rule to your own behavior.
Edit: As a side note, I don't own an ATV and likely never will. However, I fully support the use of them and think it should be expanded in this state. Actions by people like you will do absolutely nothing to garner support from the rest of the public.
Thanks for your concern towards my actions. I was taught to treat others how you would like to be treated. Therefore, If I brake and politely pass ANYBODY and they choose to snub me or say anything rude, you can bet I will happily dust them out the next time we pass. Everytime. :)
I knew I liked you :chuckle:
For those of you who don't know MtnMuley is a heck of a guy! The type that will help a stranger out on the side of the road!! No question about it!
I too say the heck with being nice when actions towards me are rude! When are we going to quit being NICE to those who are trying to take take and take all of our freedoms??? Fact!In the past nice does not work, it won't work in the future. Its been proven time and time again.
Its time to standup and say "We have had Enough". Rude behavior will not be tolerated and bet your arse I will dust them too!
Post by: JLS on May 19, 2014, 05:01:22 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2014, 05:07:12 PM
Taking the same thought you guys are, if you dust me is it then okay if I ram your truck? And then shoot you when you get out to come punch me?
That's exactly the type of escalation of events that I was eluding to and exactly how road rage occurs.
Post by: rtspring on May 19, 2014, 05:09:54 PM
Taking the same thought you guys are, if you dust me is it then okay if I ram your truck? And then shoot you when you get out to come punch me?
Ha ha, what if some guy slaps your girlfriends or wifes butt? You just gonna stand there and be NICE??
So your gonna ram me with a truck cause you got dusted??? Wow! Try that and see how it works out for ya. Murder cause you got a little dust on you?
Post by: JLS on May 19, 2014, 05:11:05 PM
Taking the same thought you guys are, if you dust me is it then okay if I ram your truck? And then shoot you when you get out to come punch me?
That's exactly the type of escalation of events that I was eluding to and exactly how road rage occurs.
Apparently it's okay to act like this if you are snubbed by someone, after all, this is 'Merica and I can get offended if I want to. :rolleyes:
Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2014, 05:13:00 PM