Post by: Tbob on May 06, 2014, 11:37:02 PM
Post by: darren on May 07, 2014, 03:31:00 AM
In the wooded hikes I've been on there have always been at least a few breaks where you can see peaks and ridgelines and valleys and lakes and whatnot. Take what you see and look at your topo map and make your best guess about where you are. Then break out the gps and see if you're right. If you're wrong, figure out why. Rinse and repeat. When you get good at this you won't panic if you don't have gps coverage everywhere.
If you really are in thick woods all day at least you have the pitch of the slope to work with to go with your topo map, but I've never really been in that situation.
:twocents:
Post by: RadSav on May 07, 2014, 04:43:05 AM
As I get older and the wife moves the bed around pointing all different directions I find my sense of direction is not what it once was. So some times these days I don't end up coming out in the exact spot I figured I would. But five minute of reasoning and observation while I'm eating some noodles or kippers and I'm back on track to the truck or camp. There are just too many roads, too much air traffic and too much noise on the westside to ever get lost. Unless extremely remote and even then rational reason should get you out just fine. As long as you know where you started, where you've been and have a reasonable expectation of where you should be.
Now if you are my wife and follow direction with half your brain turned off you could have problems. When someone tells you to take the second trail to the right and then drop down to the road you see that's pretty simple. But my wife gets to the second trail to the right and says, "He told me second trail to the right, but I doubt he really meant the second trail. I bet he meant the fourth, fifth or sixth trail." And if those don't look right "maybe he meant to say left instead of right" :bash:
I once had to lead her with the radio in the middle of the night using only satellites and aircraft for barings. OK dear lay flat on your back here comes a plane. Tell me when it is closest to you or right over your head. That was a long night with a lot of tears and imaginary red eyed cougars and demon possessed bear. All that could have been easily avoided if you pay attention and follow direction and notice what is around you before you step into the woods. We now carry Rhino's so I can ping her location and go get her. Though I have not had to do that since the one bad night because she pays more attention and knows where she is before leaving the truck or trail.
And for the men out there it's important to remember that 99% of women have no idea what you mean when you say North, South, East or West. They understand up, down, left, right and "your screwed". But north has no meaning unless you are standing on the beach at Westport :chuckle:
Post by: JLS on May 07, 2014, 05:59:58 AM
Rad, if she takes the wrong trail then you don't have to worry about here beating you back to camp and eating all of the Nutter Butters. >:(
Tbob,
Learn to function and navigate without your GPS, then learn to use your GPS as a helpful tool and not one that you rely on. You are well served to have 7.5 minute quad maps of the area you are hunting and a compass. Look up the declination for the area you are hunting because it changes every year. Know how to properly set the declination.
You don't need to see very far in order to use your compass for bearings. I've used mine in the heavy old growth, and as long as you can sight an object 20 yards in front of you then you are heading in the right direction.
Post by: boneaddict on May 07, 2014, 06:07:22 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 07, 2014, 06:11:17 AM
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on May 07, 2014, 06:20:43 AM
Post by: jackmaster on May 07, 2014, 06:25:05 AM
Post by: Bob33 on May 07, 2014, 06:33:26 AM
Post by: Rider on May 07, 2014, 07:11:24 AM
Post by: fillthefreezer on May 07, 2014, 08:05:32 AM
I've never been lost once I got confused for 2 or 3 days but I wasn't lost.:tup:
i thought youd gone under! :chuckle:
Post by: huntingaddiction on May 07, 2014, 08:43:08 AM
Post by: RadSav on May 07, 2014, 09:11:31 AM
I don't understand the possibility of getting lost. Assuming you left the truck or camp. If you started going downhill, you obviously have to go uphill to get back! :chuckle: Just sayin!!!
You would be amazed at how the fear of getting lost can effect that simple ability in folks. I hunted with a chiropractor friend of mine who got lost on Mt Rainer when he was a kid. Absolutely scared to death to hunt by himself. So I took him to a spot I thought would ease him into hunting alone. I said, "As long as you can tell the difference between up hill and down hill it is impossible to get lost. Road at the top, road at the bottom, road to the left, and road to the right. Worst case scenario you have to follow a creek along a flat for about 200 yards before you hit the road in one spot. I will drive the road and pick you up in a few hours." Absolutely no doing for him, "I know I will get lost!", he told me! I don't believe we ever hunted together again after that. Just a little to cuckoo for my taste.
Post by: KFhunter on May 07, 2014, 09:21:56 AM
Now I got a GPS and spend more time trying to follow that stupid line, I constantly veer to one side or the other of the line then have to correct course. It's 1/2 mile to the truck and I'll walk 12 miles trying to follow that line on the GPS :chuckle:
Post by: Broken Arrow on May 07, 2014, 09:31:46 AM
Post by: huntingaddiction on May 07, 2014, 09:36:36 AM
Thats crazy i have never had a problem. The only time i usually have a problem is when i get back to the road is which way to go and that usually take me a minute or so to figure out.I don't understand the possibility of getting lost. Assuming you left the truck or camp. If you started going downhill, you obviously have to go uphill to get back! :chuckle: Just sayin!!!
You would be amazed at how the fear of getting lost can effect that simple ability in folks. I hunted with a chiropractor friend of mine who got lost on Mt Rainer when he was a kid. Absolutely scared to death to hunt by himself. So I took him to a spot I thought would ease him into hunting alone. I said, "As long as you can tell the difference between up hill and down hill it is impossible to get lost. Road at the top, road at the bottom, road to the left, and road to the right. Worst case scenario you have to follow a creek along a flat for about 200 yards before you hit the road in one spot. I will drive the road and pick you up in a few hours." Absolutely no doing for him, "I know I will get lost!", he told me! I don't believe we ever hunted together again after that. Just a little to cuckoo for my taste.
Post by: RadSav on May 07, 2014, 09:48:19 AM
The only time i usually have a problem is when i get back to the road is which way to go and that usually take me a minute or so to figure out.
Now that I've gotten older that is my problem. That and "Where did I park that dang truck. And where did I hide my keys" :chuckle: In my youth I might miss the truck in the dark by 100 yards every once in a while. Now I might miss it by 1/4 mile :bash: Old boss would say, "That's not a sign of getting old. That's a sign of advanced maturity." :rolleyes:
Post by: runamuk on May 07, 2014, 09:53:47 AM
Now in a city I get turned around so bad it induces full blown panic, hate driving in unfamiliar places.
Post by: huntingaddiction on May 07, 2014, 10:02:38 AM
The worst part is when you get down in the steep stuff. You have to make a decision to walk back up the steep stuff where you just came or hit the road and hike 2 miles. happened to me this year and normally i would hike back up that hill. On that particular day i had taken my wife through the ringer. We took the road!The only time i usually have a problem is when i get back to the road is which way to go and that usually take me a minute or so to figure out.
Now that I've gotten older that is my problem. That and "Where did I park that dang truck. And where did I hide my keys" :chuckle: In my youth I might miss the truck in the dark by 100 yards every once in a while. Now I might miss it by 1/4 mile :bash: Old boss would say, "That's not a sign of getting old. That's a sign of advanced maturity." :rolleyes:
Post by: aorams on May 07, 2014, 10:28:18 AM
the wilderness college one is only 85 bucks...
http://www.cascadeoc.org/ (http://www.cascadeoc.org/)
http://www.wildernesscollege.com/wilderness-orienteering-and-navigation-class.html (http://www.wildernesscollege.com/wilderness-orienteering-and-navigation-class.html)
http://www.rei.com/outdoorschool/navigation-classes.html (http://www.rei.com/outdoorschool/navigation-classes.html)
Then start small.
Post by: jackelope on May 07, 2014, 11:23:54 AM
I rely heavily on GPS technology. I have no fear of getting lost but prepare for the possibility of getting injured.
Getting injured or the batteries going dead.
:yike:
Post by: bearpaw on May 07, 2014, 11:31:29 AM
Post by: Bob33 on May 07, 2014, 11:58:39 AM
Simple solution: carry extra batteries. Two AAs weigh a couple ounces. Go out with full batteries. Check the battery meter. If batteries are getting low replace them. :dunno:I rely heavily on GPS technology. I have no fear of getting lost but prepare for the possibility of getting injured.
Getting injured or the batteries going dead.
:yike:
I've never understood why GPS units are singled out for "failing". Sure it can happen, but it's extremely rare. A compass can break or fail also.
A GPS tells me where I am, where my camp is, where my vehicle is, where my dead animal is so I can retrieve it, where I am relative to property boundaries and who the property owner is, where I am relative to GMU boundaries, sunrise/sunset times, and more.
A compass does one thing, and only one thing: it points north.
Post by: washelkhunter on May 07, 2014, 12:15:42 PM
Knowing how to use a compass and a map are your best friend. A GPS is great....but if it goes down, and you don't how to navigate with out it....it could and will get ugly!:yeah:
Post by: PolarBear on May 07, 2014, 12:23:29 PM
Post by: snowpack on May 07, 2014, 12:26:20 PM
Use the mountains and land features as reference points, always be looking at landscape features. By doing that flat land is the only place I've ever had any problem.:yeah:
For most of the areas I go, you usually know you are within the drainage you started in if you didn't cross a ridge. And you have an idea of which side of the drainage if you didn't cross any significant piece of water. Then you also can look at moss or how the vegetation grows and can usually have a good rough idea of where you're at. But sometimes in the low, flat river bottoms I find it is easy to get turned around, especially when the ferns and berries are taller than you and there is a lot of downfall and deep mud.
Post by: Alchase on May 07, 2014, 12:47:25 PM
If you have never been taught how to use a compass "correctly" I would suggest you look into an Orienteering Course.
I use a GPS specifically for the back trail function. I still get a kick out of pulling out my compass to see how accurate I am and to keep the skills up. The only time I have felt I did not have an accurate idea of my location and the way out, was in the heavy timber of the West side. It is really easy to get turned with no visual landmarks or horizon to work with, or serious fog.
I change out the batteries of my GPS before every hunting trip. And always, always, carry extra batteries.
Post by: rover758 on May 07, 2014, 01:11:03 PM
:yeah:
I think someone already said it .... I've never been lost. Powerful confused, yes, but never lost. I taught my son to always be mindful of his surrounding. Starting at a very early age I'd have him out in the woods and then tell him to find his way back to camp. No GPS (back then) and no compass. I'd trail him by 50 feet or so and ignore any questions he asked. (Always with a smile.) A bunch of you have hit the big thing .... staying calm. That was his biggest hurdle. Last time I did it to him he said, "Really Dad? I'm 30 now. Do you think we can move on?"
Post by: Igottanewknee on May 07, 2014, 01:27:36 PM
Post by: huntingaddiction on May 07, 2014, 10:20:09 PM
I got lost twice in areas that I knew like the back of my hand, or so I thought. Both times involved fog with less than 20 feet visibility and one of those was in 2 feet of snow. I finally broke out the compass and mad it out. One time I got stuck in the freezing fog and snow on top of Snow Peak in Republic and had to stay the night with nothing but what was in my fanny pack. That was a cold mo-fo!so you mean to tell me you were lost in the snow? :chuckle:next time then around and follow your tracks...
Post by: PolarBear on May 07, 2014, 10:58:08 PM
Post by: Alpine Mojo on May 08, 2014, 01:41:32 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on May 08, 2014, 01:57:50 PM
It wasn't that simple. I was dropped off on a ridge and needed to make my way to a pick up point. I eventually gave up and backtracked to the road and hiked the road out. It meant an extra 10 miles of walking. The fog didn't lift for 3 days.
Learn to be proficient with a compass and altimeter. Learn how to use them together with a map. Don't rely on GPS to the point that it can become a liability if it fails for any reason.
Everyone going afield should be able to navigate via map and compass. An altimeter would be a nice addition however it is not necessary. You can plot a course in the blind and reach your destination with just the C&M but you have to know where you are on the map to begin. You were on a ridge and knew where you had to go so it should have been a relatively straightforward affair. Plot a line from A to B then make adjustments allowing for the inevitable vagaries of the in between terrain. I'll see if I cant get some pics up to demonstrate how to plot a course.
Post by: washelkhunter on May 08, 2014, 04:59:26 PM
This gives you a heading of 42'. Now tho you need to account for declination i.e. the diff between True north and Magnetic north. Pic 4 shows the correction. Now accounting for Declination your direction of travel is "really" 59'. had you followed the 42' heading you would have run up Lemei Rock. While traveling keep the needle pointing N and follow the direction of travel pointer. Easy huh?
Post by: Pacific on May 09, 2014, 10:14:59 AM
I love to look at maps, so any area I am going into, I will have spent hours looking at the maps...and google earth....and have a pretty good mental picture of the area....I always carry a compass and map....just have never gotten used to using a gps.....
That said, I have been in situations where thing don't seem to be where they should be :dunno: not sure why that ridge or canyon is there when it should be over here :o dang compass is pointing the wrong way :bdid: note to self: trust the compass......any problem I have is mosty because I over estimate how far I can or have traveled....I think to myself that I should be there by now when it is really still 2 miles to my destination.....and fog really messes up my sense of direction....again, trust the compass.....
Post by: JLS on May 09, 2014, 10:18:38 AM
Post by: jasnt on May 09, 2014, 10:30:00 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on May 09, 2014, 10:35:31 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 09, 2014, 10:36:21 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on May 09, 2014, 10:51:24 AM
Another hunt in Montana my old man dropped him and I off on a ridge line and said he would pick us both up down at the lower road. We planned to parallel each other a few hundred yards apart. After a while I decided I would angle over and check on him and sure enough, I found him freaked out and staring at his compass. When I whistled her darn near crapped his pants and asked where the F my dad was. I pointed down to the bottom of the hill and said "right there" Clear as day you could see the shine of the vehicle in the sun about a half mile down the hill. How you can get lost when all you have to do is walk downhill is beyond me.
Post by: washelkhunter on May 09, 2014, 11:59:21 AM
If you are trusting the declination from a 10 year old map, you are setting yourself up for a bad situation. Check declination each year, it changes.
The example above was posted as a basic tutorial of navigation for those here who don't know how to do it. The magnetic pole has surely wandered but the info and map is better than nothing. The variance is only likely to be off 2-3 degrees. Hardly significant in navigating such a short distance.
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2014, 12:20:51 PM
If you are trusting the declination from a 10 year old map, you are setting yourself up for a bad situation. Check declination each year, it changes.According to NOAA, the change in our region over the last ten years has been 1.68 degrees.
Post by: fair-chase on May 09, 2014, 12:52:40 PM
If you are trusting the declination from a 10 year old map, you are setting yourself up for a bad situation. Check declination each year, it changes.According to NOAA, the change in our region over the last ten years has been 1.68 degrees.
Which is fairly insignificant for most foot travel. For every degree you are off course, you will deviate 92 feet per mile from your desired heading.
So, just for an example. If you were to do a 5 mile hike, and were off by 2 degrees in your calculations, you would end up 920 feet (306 yards) from your intended destination. The only time I can see that being a factor would be in areas of cliffs/hazards with zero visibility. That is at the extreme end as it doesn't take into account course corrections along the way, knowledge of your destination, or a little common sense.
Post by: JLS on May 09, 2014, 01:02:38 PM
That is at the extreme end as it doesn't take into account course corrections along the way, knowledge of your destination, or a little common sense.
Which, if none of these are implemented could be a recipe for a bad situation. :)
You are correct, 2 degrees for many folks is insignificant. For someone that may be relying on their compass to put them in an exact location, it could create a lot of extra walking and an unintended night out in the woods.
Post by: Okanagan on May 09, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
I don't understand the possibility of getting lost. Assuming you left the truck or camp. If you started going downhill, you obviously have to go uphill to get back! :chuckle: Just sayin!!!
I grew up in WA and generally you are right that terrain features in most of the state will help you know where you are.
If we count on that in the Chilcotin country or much of the Thompson Plateau of BC or the Shield in Ontario, the endless same flat country will have most of us scratching our heads. I am pretty good at sense of direction but would leave my bones out there were it not for a compass.
We used to train people in map and compass navigation in such places where there were ZERO distinctive landmarks. One group didn't trust 25 year old topo map data and so took a wrong heading. Hours later they hit a lake and tried to figure out which lake it was out of dozens of possibilities on the map. They climbed trees to try to see an identifiable terrain feature, inspected shoreline contours, argued...
When they would ask if I knew where we were of if I'd ever been there before I could honestly say, "No."
What I knew that they did not was that there was a logging road 2-5 miles east of us not shown on the map, that ran north-south for 40 miles. Any heading to the east would hit it.
I hunt a thick timbered plateau many miles across without any distinctive features. But it has a meandering road on the north side and on the east side. I can ignore my compass and follow game trails, tracks, any whim of direction and know that when it is time to head out, any heading between due north and due east will hit the road somewhere.
All this yarning to say that having a wide backstop you can't miss is wise when heading back out of the bush. Going in you don't need it, but coming out it really helps to have a big target like a road, stream or trail across your line of travel. I came close to buying the farm when I tried to navigate with compass for two miles to hit a target the width of an overgrown logging road end on, in thick second growth brush. Miss it by 50 feet and I could hike for miles in same looking country. It started to sleet and I was younger and hadn't carried emergency gear for an afternoon scout, but I was lucky. In deep dusk I picked a place for emergency bivy and saw a corner of my pick-up as I gathered firewood.
A compass is a super useful tool for finding down game and sometimes for stalking game, but that is another topic. It is a good tool for a hunter to learn. :)
Post by: fair-chase on May 09, 2014, 01:22:01 PM
That is at the extreme end as it doesn't take into account course corrections along the way, knowledge of your destination, or a little common sense.
Which, if none of these are implemented could be a recipe for a bad situation. :)
Correct. :tup:
Post by: kentrek on May 09, 2014, 01:35:09 PM
Ever since I put a small compass on my chest strap of my pack about 5 years ago I've been good
Post by: Tbob on May 09, 2014, 02:36:05 PM
Post by: deltaops on May 09, 2014, 02:46:00 PM
When I was younger I would go off and explore the woods with no map, never gave a care in the world where I ended up, cause I always ended up back where I started, (home)......
Post by: beastmodebowhunter on May 09, 2014, 04:14:48 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on May 10, 2014, 05:17:35 AM
Try to use the topography as much as you can. Study the map and make a plan and have a mental map of the slopes and other features you're traveling over and check that against what you see with your eyes.
A map and compass never lie. Your eyes will, and your GPS might go along with it. Have a map and useful compass at a minimum.
The way I use them is that I primarily navigate by map and compass. I primarily use the GPS to mark interesting areas to check before going afield and to note interesting features when out in the field for later review. I almost never use the track/backtrack feature.
1. Always start by knowing where you are on your map. Knowing how to use your compass to orient your map, using your compass to get bearings on land features (roads, streams, bearings to peaks, etc.), triangulation - using map and compass to determine position on the map by taking bearing to major landmarks, etc., are all invaluable skills to have, even if you primarily rely on your GPS. (I have lost count of the times driving mountain roads that I have been turned around when using the GPS, only to break out the map and compass to determine where I was really located.)
"Wilderness Navigation" is a good resource to learn map and compass skills and what to look for in a useful compass. If yours does not have declination or an easy way to take bearings, then I would invest in another.
http://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Navigation-Finding-Altimeter-Mountaineers/dp/0898869536 (http://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Navigation-Finding-Altimeter-Mountaineers/dp/0898869536)
REI has classes (last I saw) that use this as a teaching tool (free or low cost). But I found the above to be a quick and easy read that, in conjunction with practice in the field was sufficient.
2. Use the GPS in conjunction with your map to determine position on the map and/or bearing to next waypoint, then use the compass to keep true to that bearing as close as possible.
If you are not using UTM coordinate system on your GPS in conjunction with your map (also marked with UTM coordinate information), then you are doing yourself a disservice. Point is that you can get UTM coordinates directly on your GPS and easily find your map position, or set a GPS waypoint from an easily map-determined UTM coordinate.
Navigation Skills: The UTM Coordinate System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfgwC8f4wwY#ws)
I thought about getting a UTM grid tool such as referenced in the video, but I have not found it necessary; calibrated eyeball or compass measurement works pretty well.
https://www.maptools.com/utm_tools (https://www.maptools.com/utm_tools)
3. When you get to a clearing (an area with adequate GPS reception), after navigating by bearing to next waypoint with your compass, you can check your work (location on map and proximity to intended waypoint) on the GPS and update your bearing to intended waypoint.
4. By checking your known/suspected position periodically (orienting your map to true north, looking around where you are to determine land features and that they make sense with your suspected map position, and then verifying your suspected position on the map with the GPS) you should be able to trustfully navigate even the deepest darkest timber-covered GPS-blocking holes without too much anxiety over getting lost. That way, even if you go off on a tangent after some game, some sign, a noise, or some interesting feature that you did not mark as a waypoint, you should always have a recent reference of where you were without too much time in between unknown locations.
One of the only times I have been worried is up in SE AK (cold, wet, limited visibility due to rapid fog onset, turned around and separated from the hunting partner I was following, without a map, and with only my compass and a GPS waypoint back to the truck). (The other was in white out conditions.) I could feel panic start to set in, so I stopped, gathered my wits, and thought calmly about things before just proceeding rashly. (I probably could have stayed overnight, if necessary, but it would not have been a fun one.)
If you have measured confidence in your system (including navigation tools and knowledge to use them as well as planning for an emergency overnight), then you should be able to enjoy your time in the woods off-trail without fear of getting lost.
Don't forget to leave your intended starting point/destination/return time with a trusted friend. Also, the point about a wide backstop is a good backup plan.
Post by: ICEMAN on May 12, 2014, 07:37:38 PM
I learned the woods with no map and a crummy dry compass that rattled. Later upgraded to a liquid filled. Then maps years later. I have never been lost, turned around for a while (fog sucks) but never lost.
Not sure how, but I feel I have an internal compass or something, an uncanny ability to bust through territory I have never set foot in and still pop out where I wanted. Other things I am bad at, navigating the woods not bad at.
You are only lost as far as you have walked in before feeling lost. You hiked in an hour, and feel lost, you are only 1 hour lost. Go back. :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on May 12, 2014, 07:48:22 PM
I feel that GPS sets guys up for getting lost.
I learned the woods with no map and a crummy dry compass that rattled. Later upgraded to a liquid filled. Then maps years later. I have never been lost, turned around for a while (fog sucks) but never lost.
Not sure how, but I feel I have an internal compass or something, an uncanny ability to bust through territory I have never set foot in and still pop out where I wanted. Other things I am bad at, navigating the woods not bad at.
You are only lost as far as you have walked in before feeling lost. You hiked in an hour, and feel lost, you are only 1 hour lost. Go back. :chuckle:
I gotta agree
I've had more head scratchers with a GPS than without, but then with a GPS I'll blaze through the deepest crap in the middle of the night where I didn't really do that before :chuckle:
So I compromise and keep the GPS in the pack and only pull it out to check bearings then put it away again.
Post by: kentrek on May 12, 2014, 07:49:56 PM
I feel that GPS sets guys up for getting lost.
While the old rhinos has help me out a couple times I did enjoy up in Canada on an elk hunt in idaho.... :dunno: lucky I wasnt needgin it for navigation that day
Another time while walking through some very impressive fog down a razor back ridge i called in a couple bulls an played that game for a bit...then walked back up to the top of the ridge an continued on my way..next thing you know everything was wrong..started play in with the gps an I couldnt bring my self to trust it....even after looking at my compass I knew that dang thing was broken too...woulda been along walk if I hadn't ran into my cuzn...can't believe how stubborn I was being that day
Post by: hike2hunt on May 12, 2014, 08:44:38 PM
When doing your map study with your google earth or such; remember that the contour interval on map can disguise some pretty nasty cliffs. As we are taught that the closer the interval the stepper the terrain, but a 30 foot remote rock cliff can easily hide in a 40 foot interval on your map.
Post by: jackmaster on May 13, 2014, 06:48:51 AM
Post by: Pacific on May 13, 2014, 01:22:43 PM
I also seem to have a pretty good internal compass.....out in the woods.....get me in the city, now that is when I get lost as all get-out :o
Post by: Andrew on May 16, 2014, 05:02:26 PM
Getting into turkey hunting out here did wonders for me and my confidence, and maybe a little bit of digital courage from my GPS. I upgraded my GPS to a rhino series and ironically I currently hardly use the unit for navigation, but more so for communication with my hunting partner while out in the boonies during the high hunt.
I believe the single most important aspect that helped me is observation/awareness. Two elements rarely focused on by hikers and backpackers...at least I wasn't. I spent more time plodding one foot in front of the other, worried about time/pace and getting from A-B. I've yet to get 'lost', but merely sidetracked, however, I did momentarily loose my backpack once when I set it down against a stump and started screwing with a grouse only to go back to the spot I thought was where I left my pack to find just a charred stump... :bdid:
My advice is to follows every ones since it is all good. Never rely on one device, have backup, know your area, and most importantly pay attention.
Post by: Stein on June 10, 2014, 10:00:21 PM
So, I don't go into viney maples any more.
Like was mentioned, there usually is something to bracket you in - road, ridge, creek, fence, something. Once I hit that I know where I am.
Post by: Crook on July 25, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 25, 2014, 02:29:43 PM
Post by: MLHSN on July 28, 2014, 01:33:54 PM
With our topography, trusting solely in a compass can get you into trouble. Looking at the map, you can see potential areas to avoid for example: cliff bands, deep brush, etc. that you might have to bypass on the way home.
Post by: NRA4LIFE on July 28, 2014, 02:06:56 PM
Post by: rover758 on July 29, 2014, 01:24:57 PM
Good point NRA. In my job I deal with declination daily and it's a pain .... The actual declination for Seattle is 16 degrees 9 minutes and 50 seconds East declination with an anual rate of change of 10.8' West each year. So, what's accurate for this year won't be accurate next year. NOAA publishes the official declination for each site. If you don't know the actual lat/long's for your area you can search by country and state. There's also some very good info there on isogonic lines and the flucutation of earth's magnetic poles ... which some experts say are going to flop over the next 2000 years. Up is down and down is up.
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml)
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination)
Post by: AKBowman on July 29, 2014, 08:44:44 PM
Use the mountains and land features as reference points, always be looking at landscape features. By doing that flat land is the only place I've ever had any problem.
Funny you say that, in the mountains I am fine. Just yesterday I went into a flat area that I have been into probably 50 times but went in a totally different way trying to come in the backside where there is a big thick draw. Well I came to what I thought was the draw and crossed it into what I thought was going to lead me to the clear cut. 100 yards into the reprod patch swimming through salal as high as my head I realized I looped way to the left and crossed a side draw into the back side of here reprod patch instead of crossing the main draw into the clear cut.
It can definitely happen, you just have to take time and think logically. My gps sucks in the timber too but I don't use a compass. I should.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 30, 2014, 06:18:51 AM
Use the mountains and land features as reference points, always be looking at landscape features. By doing that flat land is the only place I've ever had any problem.
I Know you have a lot more experience than I in the woods, Dale. But, especially for a novice unfamiliar with his surroundings, this would be a problem at night or during the day with fog or low clouds. Under those conditions, a compass is the only reliable tool if your GPS is out for whatever reason. I still say get a compass and map, and know how to use them.
Post by: Sunbkpk on August 08, 2014, 03:39:40 PM
The most important tool is your common sense. Keep calm and think it through. I have been temporarily disoriented but quickly recovered. Never really lost.
I carry a map, compass and GPS. Seldom need them but always use them to be practiced. Gets me there faster and gets me back to a spot next time.
Post by: Eli346 on September 26, 2014, 11:53:58 AM
Post by: Seahawk12 on September 26, 2014, 02:34:45 PM
Buy the relevant maps.
Buy a good compass.
Learn to navigate with them.
Always, always, pack emergency gear in case you have to stay a night or two in the forest. If you ever do get yourself lost, the number one piece of advice I could give would be to stay calm. Sit down and think things out. Pull out your map and compass.
When I first started to hunt back in the early '90s I got myself lost a time or two. Once, I had to spend a night in the woods because of a heavy snow storm that wiped out visibility. I survived it and became a better outdoorsman do to the experiences. Before heading out to do any kind of hunting or scouting or even camping, I take a good long time studying topo maps of the areas I will be going. With that info and the maps and compass it is near impossible to be truly lost. Perhaps, on occasion I still get temporarily turned around slightly while tracking something, but never to a point that a quick look at a map for reference can't remedy.
Be prepared.
Buy a map.
Buy a compass.
Have fun!
Post by: Soady on October 04, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on October 04, 2014, 07:45:47 PM
I've been turned around a lot, and would be lost while night hunting with dogs if not for my garmin gps. Carry spare batteries, two gps units, learn the area with satellite imagery, and you will be fine.
As far as being able to survive a night, I always carry enough to keep me alive for a day or two if the worst should happen. Though thats not for a fear of being lost
Post by: timberghost72 on October 05, 2014, 10:53:42 AM
Am I the only one to notice Tbob's groups are King County Search and Rescue? Really? If I am lost and he stumbles across me now two of us are lost! :dunno: :bdid:
Maybe it's a group he supports and would like to be a part of in some capacity to learn more about wilderness travel, rescue, navigation etc..
Post by: Smokepole on October 11, 2014, 01:01:02 PM
A gps is a good convenience item, but I would not rely on it completely. :twocents:
Post by: MLHSN on October 14, 2014, 11:52:00 PM
A good tool to have in mountainous country is an altimeter. Many times I have used mine to find elevations and follow contours to given points on the map. In the fog, I've been able to avoid cliffs and navigate safely using the altimeter, map and compass.
A gps is a good convenience item, but I would not rely on it completely. :twocents:
Very good advice in my opinion. Know your altitude and track progress on a map. A compass is really not as helpful in WA mountainous terrain. Strait line tracks can steer you into cliff band and brush bands/drainages that are obvious from staring at maps.
Everyone should know how to use a map and compass. But the compass alone just doesn't work were I go. When you have to skirt above or under cliff bands, cross ridgelines at exact saddles, or avoid obvious brushy areas, terrain association is the way to navigate.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 20, 2014, 09:51:50 AM
Use the mountains and land features as reference points, always be looking at landscape features. By doing that flat land is the only place I've ever had any problem.
I Know you have a lot more experience than I in the woods, Dale. But, especially for a novice unfamiliar with his surroundings, this would be a problem at night or during the day with fog or low clouds. Under those conditions, a compass is the only reliable tool if your GPS is out for whatever reason. I still say get a compass and map, and know how to use them.
Know this list:
1) Terrain association
2) How to shoot a good bearing(both with compass and on map)
3) Your individual pace count (buy beads if you need them)
If you can do these things you'll have a lot easier time.
I'm not sure which GPS you have, but when I researched this 5 years ago, I bought the Garmin 60CSX because it was known to perform well in Western WA. It's never let me down.
Also, I think the biggest thing that gets people in trouble (it got my buddy in trouble this elk season) is panic. DONT PANIC. Worst case, do this: Look at your map for a constant, directional object (river, road, ridgeline, etc). Look at the sun (rises in east, sets in west) or your compass. Start walking. As soon as you find your constant, directional object, you can start working on going where you need to go.
Let me give you an example: I found myself a little out of sorts after descending a big ridgeline this year. I thought I was in one place but after shooting bearings to other known points, I realized I wasn't there. I hate walking around with a map and compass in my hand, so I walked generally west until I hit a creek that I knew about, then followed that creek until I hit a north/south creek. I followed that creek north and came out about 200 yards from my camp. This all took place over several miles and elevation gains/losses, but I had terrain to tell me where to go.
Worst case, you walk for awhile and maybe spend the night out there. If you panic you're more likely to do something stupid which could results in injury/death. If you have to, just sit down, eat a snickers bar and regain your cool before making decisions.
Curtis
Post by: 300rum on October 22, 2014, 03:53:12 PM