Post by: lokidog on May 11, 2014, 11:19:32 PM
The state is trying to shut down this commercial SMELT fishery with 7 license holder, and alter the recreational fishery as well. There is apparently no biological reason for it, simply the rich whiney beachfront homeowners that don't want it happening near them.
Please respond to the survey with No Change.
Post by: winshooter88 on May 12, 2014, 12:28:13 AM
Post by: rasbo on May 12, 2014, 04:22:03 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on May 12, 2014, 07:27:44 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on May 12, 2014, 07:46:26 AM
Post by: lokidog on May 12, 2014, 01:31:02 PM
I feel for the loss of livelyhood or way of life. But aren't the smelt numbers way down from what they used to be? And wouldn't putting an end to commercial net seining help save the rec. sport fishery?
Did you read the article? WDFW can't give any numbers to support their claims. I guess it's OK to shut down someone else's way of life... and don't think for a minute the recreational guys won't be next. Rockfish ring a bell? :bash:
Post by: Bill W on May 12, 2014, 01:42:32 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 12, 2014, 02:10:44 PM
Post by: mkcj on May 12, 2014, 02:55:39 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 12, 2014, 02:59:53 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on May 12, 2014, 03:02:37 PM
I feel for the loss of livelyhood or way of life. But aren't the smelt numbers way down from what they used to be? And wouldn't putting an end to commercial net seining help save the rec. sport fishery?
Did you read the article? WDFW can't give any numbers to support their claims. I guess it's OK to shut down someone else's way of life... and don't think for a minute the recreational guys won't be next. Rockfish ring a bell? :bash:
Yes I read it. And agree they should have bio's do a study for proof. But it may be too late by then. I've raked and dip netted smelt in the same areas that are seined and there are less smelt every year.
I'm not a rich whiney beachfront property owner either and have cursed the seiners many times when they'd scoop up the incoming schools with their net with not much left for the people on the beach with dip nets. Most of the complaints that I've heard from the rich whiney folks is that the seiners would tresspass on private tidelands.
No offence Loki but there is no way in hell I would vote NO CHANGE! with the amount of smelt i've seen left :twocents:
Post by: Brad Harshman on May 12, 2014, 03:09:54 PM
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Post by: ballpark on May 12, 2014, 03:15:08 PM
Where is the research to even consider Option 2 or 3? :bash:
"Population abundance estimates are not available for smelt. However, Puget Sound-wide commercial catch and catch rates indicate relatively high harvest over the last several years. During that time, commercial fishing has been concentrated in marine areas where recreational smelt fishing also is popular. The overlap of the two fisheries has sparked both concerns about localized overharvesting and frustration from local homeowners. "
So "relatively high harvest over the last several years", = shut it down. Makes no sense. "frustration from local homeowners" = shut it down. That is their reason.
Post by: singleshot12 on May 12, 2014, 03:20:29 PM
I didnt read it and wont. With that said commercial fishery success rates are a great way to guage population number incline/decline when you have no other source to go from. If there numbers are down and so are the nunber of commercial fishers then one can hypothesize that population numbers are down as well. You said seven commercial fishers right? Pretty small impact considering the importance of forage fish in the sound. Pretty easy decision - shut it down.
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But then again maybe the whole point of shutting it down is to eventually hand it over to the tribes :bash:
Post by: ballpark on May 12, 2014, 03:24:10 PM
Post by: Brad Harshman on May 12, 2014, 04:28:22 PM
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Post by: singleshot12 on May 12, 2014, 05:06:04 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on May 12, 2014, 05:12:55 PM
DONE! :tup:
Where is the research to even consider Option 2 or 3? :bash:
Well, the argument could be made that most commercial fisheries (ie fish populations) have crashed before data was available for managers to implement an "option 2 or 3" type of approach. Technology and demand normally outreach supply and management. That is why we have so many stocks depleted to critical levels before anything gets done about it.
However, Puget Sound-wide commercial catch and catch rates indicate relatively high harvest over the last several years. During that time, commercial fishing has been concentrated in marine areas where recreational smelt fishing also is popular.That means in no way the population is doing well; likely, effort has increased and it's sending up red flags to those who attempt to manage our fisheries here in this wonderful state.
I'm not saying I know exactly what is going on with the smelt in Puget Sound, but if it's like most of our stocks, they're probably in trouble for a slew of reasons. The feel-good story in the article may not be telling us enough to base a valid opinion on this situation, either.
Post by: ballpark on May 13, 2014, 09:36:29 AM
We were told at this meeting that the catch in the 1970′s was 50 to 60,000 lbs a year (This was the target they were proposing to strive for with the change in regulations. Same catch as the 70′s) and that it had increased to around 100,000 lbs in the 1990′s.
"I recently received the smelt landings records from Fish and Game. These records go back to 1974. These are some of the same records that Craig Burley would use to come up with his catch numbers for the 70′s and the 90′s. The amount of distortion between the numbers that I have in front of me at this time ( landing records ), and what we were told at the meeting is truly amazing. I don’t know which is worse, the possibility that we were told deliberate falsehoods, or that someone with the position of authority to propose policy and bring it a meeting like this could bungle his homework so badly. Something really smells here.
The records in front of me show that In the 70′s there was around 21 active fishermen. The average yearly Washington catch for smelt was around 75 to 80,000 lbs. (compare to 79,800 lbs in 2013). The yearly catch averaged down until there were 10 fishermen that caught 17,000 lbs in 1990. I remember 1990 very well. There were lots of fish, but the old men who would catch them had mostly died off and those that were left didn’t put much effort into it. I started in the early 1990′s.
From 1991 the average yearly catch went up until 2000. The average yearly catch was around 140,000 lbs during this time (1991 – 2001). From 2001 to 2013 the average yearly catch went down to around 91,000 lbs with about 6 active fishermen and has been relatively stable for the last 13 years. If anyone is interested I would be happy to forward the records that I have. Smelt seining has not really changed since the 1940′s when outboard motors became more available. The nets are the same length. The mesh size is the same. The net is still mostly pulled by hand. There has not been any big change in the technology. Plastic corks instead of wooden ones. Nylon lines instead of cotton or manilla. We are no more efficient. If 21 fishermen caught 80,000 lbs of smelt in the 1970′s and 7 caught 79,800 in 2013 one could make an argument that there are more fish in 2013 than in the 70′s. This whole Regulation thing is not about saving endangered smelt stocks."
Post by: Colville on May 13, 2014, 11:55:15 AM
However, in the world of politics, and let's not pretend WDFW isn't a political entity as well as scientific one, there are two ways things get done.
The first is there's an obvious and unambiguous problem; like bad traffic, crime in an area, litter, etc. And then all parties argue about the best means to address that problem with all kinds of interests taking a different angle.
The second is that there's a person(s)/business/party who want something and they have a solution. They then set about defining a problem that will produce enough cover to allow them to change things to get what they want. They are a solution in search of a problem.
WDFW will tell you that part of their task is "managing conflicts". However the solution to private property conflict is charging trespass, to garbage is charging for litter, to too little space for both commercial and recreational is staggering use times and locations
My bias is that the WDFW should exist to provide opportunity for business and recreation and that limiting the use of either group should be based on carrying capacity of the species. Home owners not wanting to see seiners in the ocean is hardly a conflict. Unless you recognize that people who own waterfront on the sound make a worthy and capable squeaky wheel.
My suspicion goes way up when we go from harvest to curtail in the same report waterfront home owners are complaining and no damning biological basis is offered. ymmv
Post by: Bullkllr on May 13, 2014, 12:02:40 PM
There may be no hard data, but if smelt populations are healthy they would represent a rare exception to all of the other crashed/crashing fish populations in Puget Sound. Better to err on the conservative side, maybe :dunno:
About the only resident fish species in the Sound that seems to be doing really well are dogfish- is it a coincidence the commercial fishery on them mostly dried up decades ago?
It'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Post by: magnanimous_j on May 13, 2014, 12:04:31 PM
If I had to guess, someone with some waterfront property has a nephew in the WDFW.
Post by: 4fletch on May 14, 2014, 01:06:07 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on May 14, 2014, 07:03:53 AM
Post by: Brad Harshman on May 14, 2014, 08:03:06 AM
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Post by: Bullkllr on May 14, 2014, 08:10:32 AM
I know if the state would of shut down the commercial herring fishery in Friday Harbour in time there would still be herring there. Horse herring by the millions used to spawn every spring there with salmon following. It's barren of fish now :(
You could replace Friday Harbour with the entire Puget Sound. Herring is pretty scarce.
Post by: floatinghat on May 19, 2014, 07:40:59 PM
I know if the state would of shut down the commercial herring fishery in Friday Harbour in time there would still be herring there. Horse herring by the millions used to spawn every spring there with salmon following. It's barren of fish now :(
Agree on all these, little fish feed the big fish and help them grow stronger and larger.