Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2014, 05:01:10 PM
My questions are:
What do the guys who are opposed to OHV's mainly want to prevent? Are you OK with on road travel where other licensed vehicles can travel? Are you OK with a few trails designated for OHV's as long as many trails are off limits?
What do the guys with OHV's mainly want to gain for access? What's you primary desires?
Let's have a civil discussion and reach some agreeable points! :tup:
Post by: JLS on May 19, 2014, 05:04:57 PM
I am perfectly okay with on road travel.
I am perfectly okay with OHVs on some trails.d
I have never found that poor behavior is simply limited to OHVs. The same person that will drive off trail will also park in a handicapped spot, let his dog crap in your yard, or try to crowd you out of a fishing hole.
Post by: buckfvr on May 19, 2014, 05:12:55 PM
I want to prevent off road travel into walk in only areas.
I am perfectly okay with on road travel.
I am perfectly okay with OHVs on some trails.d
I have never found that poor behavior is simply limited to OHVs. The same person that will drive off trail will also park in a handicapped spot, let his dog crap in your yard, or try to crowd you out of a fishing hole.
:tup: :tup: I use atvs for specific things, mostly chores, but when weather permits, leave the truck at home and hit the hills on the quad. No trail blazing, no crazy hot rod stuff, just in place of the truck......And I do enjoy the orv trail opportunities, even though Ive only used two of the several available.
ATVs will keep us older guys enjoying the great outdoors for xtra years.....maybe our best years.
Post by: idahohuntr on May 19, 2014, 05:13:52 PM
-We need trails and we need areas with no OHV access so walk-in traffic has non-motorized area.
-Some ideas I have seen in the past that I like are open gates/trails for summer OHV use and close them about 2 weeks before hunting season...gives good recreational access all summer long but does not infest areas with atv's during hunting season
-Plan ohv trails/routes so they have long contiguous trails, but not something where you have trails intersecting and running down every major ridge.
Post by: buckfvr on May 19, 2014, 05:17:16 PM
Post by: Eli346 on May 19, 2014, 07:33:38 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on May 19, 2014, 07:34:48 PM
On the other hand, nothing more aggravating than hiking in on a dark narrow overgrown spur to have some knucklehead come crashing through at dawn to chase away the game.
I guess I would vote for more trails and roads designated for and obeyed by ORVs, so I would know where NOT to hike in... Share the woods.
Post by: ICEMAN on May 19, 2014, 07:45:43 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2014, 08:08:05 PM
Like I said recently in another thread, I do understand why the Forest service in this state would like to keep the ATV's out. It's because many people on ATV's make a habit out of not following the rules. I would even say it's likely that a majority of the ATV riders don't follow rules.
When certain roads are gated to keep vehicles out, ATVers ride around the gates and continue on closed roads or trails which are intended only for non motorized travel. And just as I understand the Forest service's reasoning for not wanting ATV's, I think I also understand why many ATV riders are reluctant to just park the ATV at a gate and go for a hike. They don't want someone to drive up and load it up in the back of their pickup and drive away.
When I used to own a 4 wheeler I never wanted to leave it sitting on the side of the road where it could easily be stolen. So in general when I went for a ride, I stayed on it all day.
They sure can be a lot of fun in the summer, and they don't burn much gas. But for hunting I found it almost worthless, and that's why I eventually sold it.
Anyway, I do think they should be legal on most forest roads. I just think that if that comes to be, there needs to be the funding available to actually enforce the laws. Every trail and road that exists should not be open to them. I want places to hike where I don't have them going by me all day long. But if it's open for a jeep, it sure ought to be open for an ATV.
Post by: buckfvr on May 19, 2014, 08:16:55 PM
Far from worthless for hunting....we leave ours all the time, all day.....I can hide and cover my quad but not my truck....
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2014, 08:21:22 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 19, 2014, 09:04:41 PM
Personally I just want to see the main FS roads that are open to other legal modes of transportation open to ATV's. I do not feel they should be allowed on any closed off road, period. Not even to retrieve a downed animal.
For myself, an atv is just my choice of transportation, Much better gas mileage, easier to turn around and fits into a small parking area, open air feeling, and dang they are FUN.
Many have mentioned how to enforce them. Self policing is the most important way, and is actually part of the language written into the law(HB1632). There are (I believe) $500 fines for infractions of the laws pertaining to Street legal ATV's. These days most people have camera cell phones, snap some pics of the vehicle, license plate, damage done, person doing it, whatever you can get, and report them.
You can bet your hiney that if I see ANY vehicle including ATV's breaking the law, I will be doing this.
Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2014, 10:31:41 PM
The questions are going to be changed on the Recreation Task Force website soon, so if you want to add your thoughts on OHV usage, I would do it soon here: http://www.engageoutdoorwashington.com/ (http://www.engageoutdoorwashington.com/)
Post by: NOCK NOCK on July 13, 2014, 01:53:39 PM
Here's the scenario: A person is riding an ATV that is licensed as "street legal" in WA ST. and also has an ORV tab. They are riding it on a dirt FS road in the Okanagon/Wenatchee National Forest that is open to cars & motorcycles but supposedly not ATV's. The ticket would most likely be issued by a FS LEO or Sherriff. I have been told by a FS LEO it would be a $125 infraction that will not show on a drivers record.
This is what my research has boiled down to;
36 CFR 212.56 (code of federal regulations)
Requires the USFS to create a motor vehicle use map (MVUM) that designates which roads are open for travel for each class of motor vehicles.
Okanogan/Wenatchee National Forest (OWNF) has not completed/produced a MVUM.
261.50 - 261.54
Authorizes the FS to close roads to a particular class of vehicle by issuing a “Forest Order”
OWNF has not issued/posted such an order. (they had a small letter to the editor in local newspaper which I do not believe is legal according to the wording in the CFR) :dunno:
The facts are:
1. A MVUM has not been provided.
2. No “Forest Order” has been issued to prohibit ATV travel on OWNF roads.
3. There is no CFR that clearly prohibits ATV use on FS roads. (I even have a quote of this from the OWNF forest supervisor Mike Balboni)
Until a MVUM is provided, or an official order is posted, the OWNF has no legal means of prohibiting an ATV from being operated on an OWNF road.
They cannot write an infraction of the law, when there is no law to back it.....Right?
I have read countless CFR's & RCW's that pertain to this matter, here's another:
36 CFR§ 261.13 Motor vehicle use.
After National Forest System roads, National Forest System trails, and areas on National Forest System lands have been designated pursuant to 36 CFR 212.51 on an administrative unit or a Ranger District of the National Forest System, and these designations have been identified on a motor vehicle use map, it is prohibited to possess or operate a motor vehicle on National Forest System lands in that administrative unit or Ranger District other than in accordance with those designations
What am I missing? Does the FS have the power to make laws as they see fit? Or do they have to follow the CFR's?
Post by: logger on July 13, 2014, 02:05:29 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 13, 2014, 02:52:08 PM
I have been doing a huge amount of research on the use of ATV's on USFS roads. Here is something to think about.
Here's the scenario: A person is riding an ATV that is licensed as "street legal" in WA ST. and also has an ORV tab. They are riding it on a dirt FS road in the Okanagon/Wenatchee National Forest that is open to cars & motorcycles but supposedly not ATV's. The ticket would most likely be issued by a FS LEO or Sherriff. I have been told by a FS LEO it would be a $125 infraction that will not show on a drivers record.
This is what my research has boiled down to;
36 CFR 212.56 (code of federal regulations)
Requires the USFS to create a motor vehicle use map (MVUM) that designates which roads are open for travel for each class of motor vehicles.
Okanogan/Wenatchee National Forest (OWNF) has not completed/produced a MVUM.
261.50 - 261.54
Authorizes the FS to close roads to a particular class of vehicle by issuing a “Forest Order”
OWNF has not issued/posted such an order. (they had a small letter to the editor in local newspaper which I do not believe is legal according to the wording in the CFR) :dunno:
The facts are:
1. A MVUM has not been provided.
2. No “Forest Order” has been issued to prohibit ATV travel on OWNF roads.
3. There is no CFR that clearly prohibits ATV use on FS roads. (I even have a quote of this from the OWNF forest supervisor Mike Balboni)
Until a MVUM is provided, or an official order is posted, the OWNF has no legal means of prohibiting an ATV from being operated on an OWNF road.
They cannot write an infraction of the law, when there is no law to back it.....Right?
I have read countless CFR's & RCW's that pertain to this matter, here's another:
36 CFR§ 261.13 Motor vehicle use.
After National Forest System roads, National Forest System trails, and areas on National Forest System lands have been designated pursuant to 36 CFR 212.51 on an administrative unit or a Ranger District of the National Forest System, and these designations have been identified on a motor vehicle use map, it is prohibited to possess or operate a motor vehicle on National Forest System lands in that administrative unit or Ranger District other than in accordance with those designations
What am I missing? Does the FS have the power to make laws as they see fit? Or do they have to follow the CFR's?
Nice job. Thank you..................
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 13, 2014, 03:31:37 PM
I have been doing a huge amount of research on the use of ATV's on USFS roads. Here is something to think about.
Here's the scenario: A person is riding an ATV that is licensed as "street legal" in WA ST. and also has an ORV tab. They are riding it on a dirt FS road in the Okanagon/Wenatchee National Forest that is open to cars & motorcycles but supposedly not ATV's. The ticket would most likely be issued by a FS LEO or Sherriff. I have been told by a FS LEO it would be a $125 infraction that will not show on a drivers record.
This is what my research has boiled down to;
36 CFR 212.56 (code of federal regulations)
Requires the USFS to create a motor vehicle use map (MVUM) that designates which roads are open for travel for each class of motor vehicles.
Okanogan/Wenatchee National Forest (OWNF) has not completed/produced a MVUM.
261.50 - 261.54
Authorizes the FS to close roads to a particular class of vehicle by issuing a “Forest Order”
OWNF has not issued/posted such an order. (they had a small letter to the editor in local newspaper which I do not believe is legal according to the wording in the CFR) :dunno:
The facts are:
1. A MVUM has not been provided.
2. No “Forest Order” has been issued to prohibit ATV travel on OWNF roads.
3. There is no CFR that clearly prohibits ATV use on FS roads. (I even have a quote of this from the OWNF forest supervisor Mike Balboni)
Until a MVUM is provided, or an official order is posted, the OWNF has no legal means of prohibiting an ATV from being operated on an OWNF road.
They cannot write an infraction of the law, when there is no law to back it.....Right?
I have read countless CFR's & RCW's that pertain to this matter, here's another:
36 CFR§ 261.13 Motor vehicle use.
After National Forest System roads, National Forest System trails, and areas on National Forest System lands have been designated pursuant to 36 CFR 212.51 on an administrative unit or a Ranger District of the National Forest System, and these designations have been identified on a motor vehicle use map, it is prohibited to possess or operate a motor vehicle on National Forest System lands in that administrative unit or Ranger District other than in accordance with those designations
What am I missing? Does the FS have the power to make laws as they see fit? Or do they have to follow the CFR's?
I guess there's an article in the Spokesman Review about ATV's and none of Nock Nocks info was mentioned....imagine that.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 14, 2014, 05:35:10 AM
If the forest service maintained the roads like the old days, I wouldn't have a problem driving my truck on them, I would rather ride my atv then beat my pickup to death. I think there is a place for everybody, split it up as fair as it can be split, After all the f.s. motto has been "wise multipule use"While being the "Land of many uses"