Post by: Mumbles on May 22, 2014, 09:09:32 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2014, 12:07:33 AM
Post by: RadSav on May 23, 2014, 03:29:51 AM
My other thought was...finally a chance to improve my Toutle odds and I went for Blues :rolleyes:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 23, 2014, 05:19:49 AM
Post by: plugger on May 23, 2014, 05:45:40 AM
Post by: norsepete on May 23, 2014, 06:26:38 AM
Post by: plugger on May 23, 2014, 07:20:33 AM
Post by: PA BEN on May 23, 2014, 08:15:42 AM
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
Dear Hunter:
Certain timber companies in western Washington have announced plans this year to begin requiring permits and charging fees to hunt on additional private forestlands where access restrictions were not previously in place. We are notifying you to make sure you are aware of these changes.
The game management units currently affected by new access requirements are GMUs 501, 506, 520, 524, 550, 556, 648, 651, 658, 660, and 672. Your special permit application history shows that you have previously applied for a special hunting permit in one or more of these areas.
We advise you to check timber company websites or hotlines soon for more information on the new landowner requirements. The website links below are for two companies that we are aware of that have changed their access policies this year.
•http://greendiamond.com/recreation/
•http://weyerhaeuser.com/Businesses/RecreationalAccess/Washington
We are providing this information to help you plan for your hunt this fall.
In recent years, we have made a concerted effort to work with private timber companies throughout the state to expand hunter access to commercial timberlands. However, while we've had some success, WDFW does not have the legal authority to regulate private landowners' decisions about restricting access or charging fees to hunt on their land.
Sincerely,
WDFW
Wildlife Program
Post by: Wacenturion on May 23, 2014, 09:24:03 AM
I think Montana is in my furure..............
Post by: Big6bull on May 23, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
Also I did not receive this email and I put in for those permits yearly. Doesn't change my plans but still :dunno:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 23, 2014, 09:49:33 AM
My thought was the information should have been sent out before and during the permit application period. Instead of midway through the final day. Other than that I don't expect it caught too many resident Washingtonians by surprise.:yeah: I was thinking the same thing when I read mine ..but nothing is surprising about anything that is happening now days ....
My other thought was...finally a chance to improve my Toutle odds and I went for Blues :rolleyes:
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on May 23, 2014, 09:52:59 AM
Just saw that email. Decided to put in for western Washington elk this year as when I don't draw eastern I can't hunt regular seasons over here. Wish I had seen the email earlier, as I would have continued to put in eastside. Put in for the Toutle unit with son and now notice on Weyerhauser's site, that no permits are available. Son and I had a good number of points. Hope I don't draw and burn them. :bash:
I think Montana is in my furure..............
Montana is a good choice :tup: ...But the permits have not gone on sale yet, which is why it is showing not available. If you draw toutle I suspect you will be able to purchase a permit.
Post by: Wacenturion on May 23, 2014, 10:13:37 AM
Just saw that email. Decided to put in for western Washington elk this year as when I don't draw eastern I can't hunt regular seasons over here. Wish I had seen the email earlier, as I would have continued to put in eastside. Put in for the Toutle unit with son and now notice on Weyerhauser's site, that no permits are available. Son and I had a good number of points. Hope I don't draw and burn them. :bash:
I think Montana is in my furure..............
Montana is a good choice :tup: ...But the permits have not gone on sale yet, which is why it is showing not available. If you draw toutle I suspect you will be able to purchase a permit.
Well if that's the case, I'm ok with it. When I went to the site and it said no permits available I thought....#*!.
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2014, 10:30:20 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 23, 2014, 10:43:35 AM
Post by: bowhunterty on May 23, 2014, 10:51:53 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2014, 10:55:21 AM
Not to stir the pot but with this and the hoof rot issues I seriously considered calling for the permit change. But theres nothing to change it to...
This is why I switched to an east side elk tag this year. If I hunt at all, I'll be hunting spikes. (Unless I draw either of the antlerless or quality bull permits I put in for)
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 23, 2014, 12:02:47 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on May 23, 2014, 12:22:39 PM
Post by: skhunt on May 23, 2014, 12:26:18 PM
Post by: plugger on May 23, 2014, 01:51:34 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 23, 2014, 01:54:47 PM
Post by: Fullabull on May 23, 2014, 05:41:06 PM
Post by: MLhunter1 on May 23, 2014, 06:40:34 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 23, 2014, 07:52:40 PM
Post by: steen on May 23, 2014, 08:09:35 PM
Not overly surprised to read the WDFW message today that many of the timber areas in a number of the GMU's will now require access permits. Much of W WA just got more costly to hunt. The rest just got more crowded.Yep! And they waited till everyone put in for their draws before they sent the e-mail. I'm glad I put in for points after hearing the rumors.
Post by: Bucks2Ducks on May 23, 2014, 08:58:38 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 23, 2014, 10:45:35 PM
Similar thing happened to me the first day of late elk season in the Winston after they took bulls away from us then too. If it weren't for my wife enjoying the cow hunt I would never go back there in late season either! I don't mind tagging a cow or spike...nothing wrong with that. I just find the value of having a choice worth more than a couple hundred dollars. Even if the past few elk we have taken over here have been smelly and diseased. Maybe my first multi-season elk permit will give me the option for an eastside bull tag this year!
Post by: kentrek on May 24, 2014, 08:44:05 AM
At first light, on the first day of the first year they took branched bulls away on the east side, the first elk to walk past be was a 6X7 at 30 yards. He stopped in an opening broadside and while looking right at me took a piss. As to say, your hunting season is going suck so bad I might as well start pissing on your season right now! I remember it vividly. I also remember the anger I felt and the almost overwhelming desire to break the law in protest! I vowed I would never elk hunt another day on the east side unless I had a branch antler bull tag in my pocket and a season that allowed me to use it. A trespassing fee isn't about to get me to change my mind...That was an awful morning >:(
Similar thing happened to me the first day of late elk season in the Winston after they took bulls away from us then too. If it weren't for my wife enjoying the cow hunt I would never go back there in late season either! I don't mind tagging a cow or spike...nothing wrong with that. I just find the value of having a choice worth more than a couple hundred dollars. Even if the past few elk we have taken over here have been smelly and diseased. Maybe my first multi-season elk permit will give me the option for an eastside bull tag this year!
You weren't tho only one with a branches bull in there sites the year they took bulls away in the winston...had a nice five at 30...had to shoot the cow standing to the left....was still a nice cow but :bash:
Seems like an awful lot of options being taken away from us
Post by: SFD2015 on May 24, 2014, 01:53:54 PM
Post by: plugger on May 24, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2014, 05:45:06 PM
So the letter says they have no control over what they do as far as charging a fee, that may be true, but they do have control over how many elk or deer can be harvested and the amount of hunters that would have a chance at those animals. I don't think there would be to many leases or access permits sold if you had a very limited amount of hunting permits issued in those units or change the GMU to reflect the majority of there land and flat don't allow a hunting season on it. I know this would create over crowding else ware but at this point something needs to be done. Maybe its time for permit only in this state.
:yeah: Exactly! That's what I'd like to see. That would be funny. If it's Weyerhaeuser land, there's no open hunting season. :chuckle:
Post by: Wacenturion on May 24, 2014, 05:48:38 PM
Post by: buckfvr on May 24, 2014, 05:58:25 PM
Post by: kentrek on May 24, 2014, 07:35:21 PM
No it's not time for permit only in this state......even less opportunity. :bdid:
:yeah:
Post by: cryfowl on May 24, 2014, 09:55:34 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 24, 2014, 10:04:43 PM
The area I hunt will be over $200 for the access permit. The bidding for the exclusive elk area down the road from me starts at $1300. My entire family worked for WEYCO and everything we own is in part to them, but I feel completely raped by them. I will be hunting out of state and will not knowingly spend another dollar on anything Weyco. Disappointed in an industry I supported for years.
I starting to believe it is a retaliation thing between Weyco and the state for not including them in the Discover Pass program/benefits. The more I hear about it the more that rumor is making sense.
Post by: Wacenturion on May 25, 2014, 08:56:00 AM
So doesnt a portion of Are license fees go back into managing the herds. Stop paying to do it on there lands and force them to do it. Seems like there exploiting a public resource in more ways than one.
I guess if you consider going to meetings and making excuses of why they can't do anything on the ground, then you are right. Management at WDFW is pretty much all paper management......fact. The only reason for an example they are spending some money and time on hoof rot is because it's become an issue an they have to appear to be addressing it.
You would be surprised at just how unscientific a lot of WDFW's "mis-management" is. :twocents:
Post by: fireweed on May 25, 2014, 09:21:21 AM
The area I hunt will be over $200 for the access permit. The bidding for the exclusive elk area down the road from me starts at $1300. My entire family worked for WEYCO and everything we own is in part to them, but I feel completely raped by them. I will be hunting out of state and will not knowingly spend another dollar on anything Weyco. Disappointed in an industry I supported for years.
Write some letters and make some phone calls. Every letter to the editor helps.
Post by: Kingpuck on May 29, 2014, 09:43:23 AM
Same thing with hunting. I got into this sport 2 years ago, this will be my 3rd and likely my last. It is not worth spending $200 on licenses, several hundred for gear, and gas money to drive all over hell to walk in the woods where 4 other guys are walking. We have ruined a great sport for the next generation. It is really sad. This has taken all the fun out of a sport that had really captured me.
What's more is that this is becoming a sport that only the rich can partake in. For what it costs to try and harvest an animal it is almost better to go buy grass fed organic beef from a farmer.
To think I had considered buying a new bow and rifle this year.... Guess that money will go elsewhere.
Post by: bobcat on May 29, 2014, 10:03:01 AM
Post by: RadSav on May 29, 2014, 10:06:57 AM
Same thing with hunting. I got into this sport 2 years ago, this will be my 3rd and likely my last. It is not worth spending $200 on licenses, several hundred for gear, and gas money to drive all over hell to walk in the woods where 4 other guys are walking. We have ruined a great sport for the next generation. It is really sad. This has taken all the fun out of a sport that had really captured me. What's more is that this is becoming a sport that only the rich can partake in. For what it costs to try and harvest an animal it is almost better to go buy grass fed organic beef from a farmer.
To think I had considered buying a new bow and rifle this year.... Guess that money will go elsewhere.
It really hasn't effected deer hunting in this state. There haven't been good deer numbers in any of those permit areas in about 10 years. I do hunt on Weyco for my late season deer, but there are days where you only see a couple other trucks. Get out and hunt deer at least. With a bow that is about as close to a sure thing as you are going to get in Washington. These permits don't change that one bit!
Post by: JLS on May 29, 2014, 10:14:33 AM
For what it costs to try and harvest an animal it is almost better to go buy grass fed organic beef from a farmer.
I realized this many years ago. However, the peace and enjoyment I get out of hunting is worth far more to me than the money I would save by buying beef.
Last year I had about 2 grand into licenses, gas, etc to spend 20 days hunting in Montana. I brought home a deer. The price per pound was pitiful, but the memories of last year are beyond compare.
Post by: RadSav on May 29, 2014, 11:09:00 AM
For what it costs to try and harvest an animal it is almost better to go buy grass fed organic beef from a farmer.
I realized this many years ago. However, the peace and enjoyment I get out of hunting is worth far more to me than the money I would save by buying beef.
Last year I had about 2 grand into licenses, gas, etc to spend 20 days hunting in Montana. I brought home a deer. The price per pound was pitiful, but the memories of last year are beyond compare.
:yeah: It's cheaper to ride the bus when you go into town too! Doesn't mean any of us are going to sell our trucks and sacrifice our freedom. It's also way cheaper to buy fish at Costco, but what's the fun in that :chuckle:
Post by: Come Get Some on May 31, 2014, 12:06:04 PM
Post by: Kingpuck on June 01, 2014, 12:56:00 PM
That perspective is not reflective of what is really happening out there. Just a matter of getting out and driving to new places and putting the appropriate pre-season work to ensure in season success. Time for a tactics change and a slap in the face with cold water!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 01, 2014, 01:35:45 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 01, 2014, 01:37:50 PM
Post by: oneshot12 on June 01, 2014, 02:35:14 PM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on June 01, 2014, 02:43:54 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on June 01, 2014, 11:13:38 PM
1) Finally bow & Muzzy hunters are going to be able to count on Weyco access without fire closures
2) Weyco IS going to allow access to their land. They don't have to and the easy path would be not to.
3) The main travel corridors are those to State Land and will remain open.
4) The Quality of the hunt will go up with more controlled access & less non-hunting access, less trash & traffic.
5) Cost - Just $150 per family per year. I paid $350 in licenses and application fees already just to hunt State land and compared to out of state hunts, hunting equipment and the like the $150 split among family members isnt that much for many of us who live to hunt. ( can't hardly get a pair of Sitka pants for that )
6) 98% of Private Land under Open Space / Timber / Agricultural rates has never been open to public access. Weyco has been in the 2% that allowed access and about the last of the Timber companies to switch to controlled - fee access. The days of free anonymous access to private land are over - is that a surprise?
7) Is there anyone out there enjoying timber tax benefits on their property that welcomes strangers to hunt their land? Would you let a family hunt it all season for $150?
Post by: Curly on June 02, 2014, 05:17:24 AM
Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk
Post by: Bullkllr on June 02, 2014, 08:48:40 AM
I don't get the hullaboo over Weyco Fees ?
1) Finally bow & Muzzy hunters are going to be able to count on Weyco access without fire closures
2) Weyco IS going to allow access to their land. They don't have to and the easy path would be not to.
3) The main travel corridors are those to State Land and will remain open.
4) The Quality of the hunt will go up with more controlled access & less non-hunting access, less trash & traffic.
5) Cost - Just $150 per family per year. I paid $350 in licenses and application fees already just to hunt State land and compared to out of state hunts, hunting equipment and the like the $150 split among family members isnt that much for many of us who live to hunt. ( can't hardly get a pair of Sitka pants for that )
6) 98% of Private Land under Open Space / Timber / Agricultural rates has never been open to public access. Weyco has been in the 2% that allowed access and about the last of the Timber companies to switch to controlled - fee access. The days of free anonymous access to private land are over - is that a surprise?
7) Is there anyone out there enjoying timber tax benefits on their property that welcomes strangers to hunt their land? Would you let a family hunt it all season for $150?
If you go back to some of the previous threads on the topic and you should get the gist of it.
For a quick and dirty summary: It represents a wholesale change regarding the way a huge % of the land in W. Wash. is accessed. It is a particularly noteworthy impact on those that live in communities surrounded by Weyco land and for those whose families have hunted the land for generations. While timber company access in general has changed from decades ago (gates, etc.), and some companies were charging (Hancock in Puget Sound area, for ex.), with Weyco going to permit access nearly everywhere this represents the policy change that suddenly impacts huge numbers of hunters and others.
Regarding some of your other points:
1) Unless I'm mistaken, Weyco uses DNR fire levels. When DNR raises to high fire danger, Weyco will continue to close to access.
2) True, but there is debate as to whether public access is expected under their tax deal. Many consider losing some access as a slap in the face to the communities that basically built Weyco's empire in the first place.
3) I think they legally have to (or just don't want to fight the huge backlash if they don't)
4) Maybe- 15,000 permits in the St. Helens' tree farm does not sound like less pressure to me, though.
5) I haven't heard that for most cost is the big issue. The way St. Helens is going if you want a permit you should be able to get one. But some of the other farms have much more limited numbers, and MANY who would gladly pay the fee simply will not be able to get a permit. Fees seem like a good deal for families to me (spouse, kids at least). On the other hand, my 18 & 20 yo sons will need to be on their own permits this year, for example....doable... but I hope they can get permits for the area we hunt ( :dunno:).
6) 98% of the owners perhaps- nowhere close to 98% of the area. 2%?- I think Weyco at one time owned somewhere approaching 50% of all the private land in SWWash (and it all was open for access at some point). It certainly affects a lot more than 2% of the hunters. Other companies charging for access were a concern for some... but it didn't represent the huge chunks of land that Weycos farms encompass.
I can't say any of this is surprising- but as I suggested, it represents a huge change from what has been status-quo in Western Washington since ...well, since there has been a Western Washington.
Natural to me that many would feel like the rug was pulled from under them just a bit. It may take time to adjust to the "new normal", but I don't think it bodes well at all for what we might see in the future. My :twocents:
Post by: NWHydroprint on June 02, 2014, 10:57:56 PM
Also hunt clubs will eventually take hold so this is going to have far reaching effects.
Post by: MountainWalk on June 02, 2014, 11:05:18 PM
Post by: fireweed on June 03, 2014, 08:33:31 AM
I don't get the hullaboo over Weyco Fees ?
Although you have made some errors and assumptions in your list, the real problems I have with this type of argument is because this attitude is selfish. "What's the problem? MY hunting could be better. It won't hurt me."
Never mind that hunting as a whole will suffer--Participation down, license sales drop, less hunter recruitment, less hunters to defend and support the sport. Never mind that rural communities will take a hit. Never mind that kids can't get to creeks, or grandma's need a permit to walk their dogs. I can afford it, it helps me, and MY hunting might get better, so I don't care how it affects others.
Post by: AKBowman on June 03, 2014, 09:44:22 PM
Some good responses to the post above. If you don't understand all of the concern over Weyco charging fees than I would suggest that you take some tile and effort into researching the subject.
It can and will effect you in a negative way. It's NOT right that they are essentially double dipping with tax breaks for public access coupled with charging a fee for public access. They WILL cork off the public property which is bound on all sides by Weyco land, they already have. This is all about the bottom line of a large corporation, they have proven they could care less about the local communities that allowed them to build their empire.
Legislature needs to be passed to help stop this.
People are up in a "hullabaloo" because they are being fleeced and nothing about it is OK.
Post by: Rooster1981 on June 04, 2014, 07:07:38 PM
I don't get the hullaboo over Weyco Fees ?
1) Finally bow & Muzzy hunters are going to be able to count on Weyco access without fire closures
2) Weyco IS going to allow access to their land. They don't have to and the easy path would be not to.
3) The main travel corridors are those to State Land and will remain open.
4) The Quality of the hunt will go up with more controlled access & less non-hunting access, less trash & traffic.
5) Cost - Just $150 per family per year. I paid $350 in licenses and application fees already just to hunt State land and compared to out of state hunts, hunting equipment and the like the $150 split among family members isnt that much for many of us who live to hunt. ( can't hardly get a pair of Sitka pants for that )
6) 98% of Private Land under Open Space / Timber / Agricultural rates has never been open to public access. Weyco has been in the 2% that allowed access and about the last of the Timber companies to switch to controlled - fee access. The days of free anonymous access to private land are over - is that a surprise?
7) Is there anyone out there enjoying timber tax benefits on their property that welcomes strangers to hunt their land? Would you let a family hunt it all season for $150?
I Agree with most of your statement :tup: I'm excited to get a vail permit, and most likely will get the st Helens permit as well.